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Can we get a comment regarding matchmaking?

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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    • Separating the queue for item level would result in longer queue times, and would also result in low-ilevel queues not popping. One of the primary issues being that people lose patience after a few minutes and then drop out of the queue, or get busy doing something else and abandon it when it does pop.
    • We are in the process of removing value-based rewards out of the PvP seasonal store, and replacing them with cosmetics. Right now, because there is value, there are people who will just spam it for minimum value on alts. This should reduce some of that problem, since a lack of value-based rewards tends to dissuade people from doing activities.
    • The queue is working with a limited player count, and is doing what it can to make the queue pop. If we force constraints on team building for the queue, then that will lead to longer queue times, which we see people drop out of, thus resulting in fewer people trying to play at any given time.
    • We're not reducing vote kick cooldown. I'm currently trying to figure out how to solve the problem of people abusing the kick system as-is.
    I've talked about this a bunch on the PvP discords, but it is good to put it here for non-discord users as well. One of the main problems we face is that unless the queue pops quickly enough, people just abandon it and do something else. More people playing of course means that it will pop more frequently, so I added seasonal PvP rewards to try and entice players into it and make it rewarding for them. Unfortunately the impact wasn't significant enough, and fresh players who were initially attracted to PvP because of the new reward mechanism weren't prepared for PvP, and the numbers dropped back down. During this time, I myself was vote-kicked (On my secret account) multiple times during matches, which makes me very hesitant to further empower vote-kicking behavior.

    I agree with some of these points, but as for the value based rewards, why not come up with a middle ground approach? Cosmetic stuff is great too, but why not give rewards that are bound to account on pickup? Maybe some overloads that bind to account only available in the pvp store, maybe some artifacts or artifact sets only obtainable in pvp (maybe some new ones / good ones, but bind to account), even runestones / enchants would be okay if they bound to account. If they were bound you wouldn't see the alt spamming and AH exploiting that is going on now. Just something to think about. Bring back the banner artifacts that BTA for starters and then try more ideas from there?
    Thanks,
    Neko
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 276 Arc User
    In terms of separating queues, I agree that's a bad idea, in fact even having two queues now has some negative impact. There should only be one queue, either the classic domination, or something like solo/duo. Not being able to queue with others is a huge reason why the player retention is so bad and why a lot of players don't even give PvP a chance. Obviously for that to work, PvP first needs to be much more accessible (in terms of gear), which is something the new mod could maybe help with somewhat.

    Completely replacing value rewards with cosmetics is also a bad idea, at least in the current state of PvP. If this was introduced at a time when we had 1000s of players and no rewards, fine that'd have worked. There are many alternative solutions, all of which are better -- rewards per match instead of seasonal but only for wins, seasonal rewards claimable only on 1 character per account, seasonal rewards bound on all characters beyond the first claiming etc. This was inevitably going to happen when putting such an exploitable reward system in a pretty broken PvP that isn't able to attract players for its gameplay alone. Rewards and such should be used to promote good PvP, not force players to do something they don't like.

    Queue and match comp constraints yes, agreed. Just things like 3 healers vs 0 healers should never happen, regardless of low pop.

    Kicks should be removed completely. But sadly with how the community is right now, it's the same as with queues and what I mention in the first paragraph -- PvP first needs to be brought into a healthier state before they can be removed.
  • nabu#4746 nabu Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    Removing AD value rewards from the seasons vendor would just further kill off PvP, it’s the only reason a majority of players even still participate
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    edited January 20
    @rhroudadev#5641 Most of my reply to your comment is in the form of the following thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1259339/a-list-of-some-reasonable-to-implement-proposals-for-improving-conditions-in-pvp

    I will also mention that removing the good rewards in PVP like you described does come with some risks I am worried about. While match quality did drop from introducing these easy to exploit rewards, it also did undoubtedly increase the number of people playing PVP. Post rewards introduction, we now routinely end seasons with 35 through 42 pages worth of players and two matches going on at the same time is a lot more common than it used to be. Before the rewards increase, we only had around 15 through 25 pages per season and usually only 1 match going on at a time.

    Having at least 2 matches going on at a time often is important and needs to remain a thing.

    Switching PVP rewards to transmute/cosmetic only will probably end the trouble we get from undergeared farmers looking for a quick way to make some money. But there are also people who go nuts trying to collect all the transmutes and I think we will still be seeing some exploitation from this crowd.

    If the cosmetic only PVP rewards don't change at least every few seasons, then PVPers will be back to square one when they get their PVP rewards and will no longer have any appealing rewards to aim for. Which probably will mean we will experience a rapid drop in the PVP population again once people obtain everything.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 502 Arc User
    Wouln't "avatar-based pvp" be the solution? I mean I am not a PvP'er but if a player could choose from a pool of chars made by the Devs, PvP would only rely on the player's skills and not on level and/or gear. I mean isn't that what PvP is all about? A contest of skill? Just my 2 cc.
  • supmadbrosupmadbro Member Posts: 28 Arc User

    Wouln't "avatar-based pvp" be the solution? I mean I am not a PvP'er but if a player could choose from a pool of chars made by the Devs, PvP would only rely on the player's skills and not on level and/or gear. I mean isn't that what PvP is all about? A contest of skill? Just my 2 cc.

    That would require some build customisation, otherwise it would get boring very quickly, If done right it could be a good solution. But if not done right it will be dead content pretty quick.
  • terylionterylion Member Posts: 56 Arc User
  • revovlerjesus1revovlerjesus1 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    terylion said:

    What has that to do with Syngery? Best players on the server? Made me lol tho.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,983 Arc User
    edited January 31
    .+ 1`Best players on the server? Made me lol tho.

    I dont see any pvp legends in that match of any noteworthy threat at all . ...maybe they are legends in their own minds ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • rrombus#7144 rrombus Member Posts: 1 New User
    > @"rhroudadev#5641" said:
    > Unfortunately the impact wasn't significant enough, and fresh players who were initially attracted to PvP because of the new reward mechanism weren't prepared for PvP, and the numbers dropped back down.

    Why isn't that the problem statement that needs fixing? The goal of getting new players trying is achieved, now strive to keep them...

    For my experience, it was far less about not being ready for pvp itself, I fully expected the curbstomping. But I was not at all ready for how absolutely unwelcome and treated with disdain by other players I would be. Why would anyone desire to subject themselves to that while learning the ropes? Fix the toxicity if you want people to stick around.
  • jabberghast#1974 jabberghast Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    terylion said:

    Calling this a tickle-match would be an exaggeration. If this is PvP rn I won't ever come back. No kills = no fun.
  • fuxion#7775 fuxion Member Posts: 286 Arc User

    • Separating the queue for item level would result in longer queue times, and would also result in low-ilevel queues not popping. One of the primary issues being that people lose patience after a few minutes and then drop out of the queue, or get busy doing something else and abandon it when it does pop.
    • We are in the process of removing value-based rewards out of the PvP seasonal store, and replacing them with cosmetics. Right now, because there is value, there are people who will just spam it for minimum value on alts. This should reduce some of that problem, since a lack of value-based rewards tends to dissuade people from doing activities.
    • The queue is working with a limited player count, and is doing what it can to make the queue pop. If we force constraints on team building for the queue, then that will lead to longer queue times, which we see people drop out of, thus resulting in fewer people trying to play at any given time.
    • We're not reducing vote kick cooldown. I'm currently trying to figure out how to solve the problem of people abusing the kick system as-is.
    I've talked about this a bunch on the PvP discords, but it is good to put it here for non-discord users as well. One of the main problems we face is that unless the queue pops quickly enough, people just abandon it and do something else. More people playing of course means that it will pop more frequently, so I added seasonal PvP rewards to try and entice players into it and make it rewarding for them. Unfortunately the impact wasn't significant enough, and fresh players who were initially attracted to PvP because of the new reward mechanism weren't prepared for PvP, and the numbers dropped back down. During this time, I myself was vote-kicked (On my secret account) multiple times during matches, which makes me very hesitant to further empower vote-kicking behavior.

    Thanks for reply & insights - Really appreciated

    Just a question to add please if i may

    Almost everyone that has been asked about Duel Queue system stated tht they will pvp alot more and some that don't consider to start playing pvp if such a queue system was available cause then they can take a friend or guildie and don't feel so alone

    i saw that this has been suggested for years ...can we please have such a system implemented ?

    Thanks
  • fuxion#7775 fuxion Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited April 11

    • Separating the queue for item level would result in longer queue times, and would also result in low-ilevel queues not popping. One of the primary issues being that people lose patience after a few minutes and then drop out of the queue, or get busy doing something else and abandon it when it does pop.
    • We are in the process of removing value-based rewards out of the PvP seasonal store, and replacing them with cosmetics. Right now, because there is value, there are people who will just spam it for minimum value on alts. This should reduce some of that problem, since a lack of value-based rewards tends to dissuade people from doing activities.
    • The queue is working with a limited player count, and is doing what it can to make the queue pop. If we force constraints on team building for the queue, then that will lead to longer queue times, which we see people drop out of, thus resulting in fewer people trying to play at any given time.
    • We're not reducing vote kick cooldown. I'm currently trying to figure out how to solve the problem of people abusing the kick system as-is.

    what about 3 lvls to accommodate more players but just have less rewards at lower levels - This would be fair to everyone

    so if you want better rewards you have to gear up - This makes alot more sense than just removing rewards because some players and the community is growing want to pvp and not really pve

  • fuxion#7775 fuxion Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    ..


  • fuxion#7775 fuxion Member Posts: 286 Arc User

    • Separating the queue for item level would result in longer queue times, and would also result in low-ilevel queues not popping. One of the primary issues being that people lose patience after a few minutes and then drop out of the queue, or get busy doing something else and abandon it when it does pop.
    • We are in the process of removing value-based rewards out of the PvP seasonal store, and replacing them with cosmetics. Right now, because there is value, there are people who will just spam it for minimum value on alts. This should reduce some of that problem, since a lack of value-based rewards tends to dissuade people from doing activities.
    • The queue is working with a limited player count, and is doing what it can to make the queue pop. If we force constraints on team building for the queue, then that will lead to longer queue times, which we see people drop out of, thus resulting in fewer people trying to play at any given time.
    • We're not reducing vote kick cooldown. I'm currently trying to figure out how to solve the problem of people abusing the kick system as-is.
    I've talked about this a bunch on the PvP discords, but it is good to put it here for non-discord users as well. One of the main problems we face is that unless the queue pops quickly enough, people just abandon it and do something else. More people playing of course means that it will pop more frequently, so I added seasonal PvP rewards to try and entice players into it and make it rewarding for them. Unfortunately the impact wasn't significant enough, and fresh players who were initially attracted to PvP because of the new reward mechanism weren't prepared for PvP, and the numbers dropped back down. During this time, I myself was vote-kicked (On my secret account) multiple times during matches, which makes me very hesitant to further empower vote-kicking behavior.


    Thanks ,

    what about 3 lvls to accommodate more players but just have less rewards at lower levels - This would be fair to everyone

    so if you want better rewards you have to gear up - This makes alot more sense than just removing rewards because some players and the community is growing want to pvp and not really pve


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