Active companions that are doing too much damage

jman3l#5579
jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
@noworries#8859 it looks like most of the active companions are balanced with augments at the moment in terms of the amount of damage they deal. There are two exceptions:
  • Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
  • Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%
All other active striker companions seem to be doing about 12% to 15% of the players damage, which when accounted for stat reductions to buff those strikers, ends up being about equivalent to the damage increase that augments give from the extra stats. Please consider toning down the damage of Flame Sprite and Quickling.
Thanks,
Neko
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Comments

  • catson#7772
    catson#7772 Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    > * Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
    >
    > * Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%


    It's not really accurate to say % of player dmg, that depends on the player.

    My flame sprite does around 45k dps right now with 6 indomitable and 1 warlord inspiration.
    While I do around 200k on dummies.

    Other companions are weak in comparison, imo they should be buffed a bit to similar level and make their passives respected.

    For example batiri was doing similarly to flame sprite and even more on bosses because of its own 25% buff against bosses. Now it's complete rubbish, around 13k dps so you wouldn't even consider taking it anywhere near bosses.

    Cold iron warrior and air archon was doing fairly well, ~35k .

    I can't test xuna unfortunately.

    I wish they brought back target debuffs on companions. Like we used to have chult tiger.
  • wilbur626
    wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,000 Arc User
    @catson#7772

    Regarding target debuffs ; Take a look at the Spined Devil, Incubus and Succubus for their “vulnerability up” debuff. Was 10% dmg taken in initial preview tests, about 50% uptime
    Elite Whaleboy
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    As @catson#7772 said, there are quite a lot of people saying companions do too much damage compared to players when the problem is not that companion but the player just doing too little damage (playing a bad class build).

    The official statement is that companions (attack companions) should be about 7%-10% of player (DPS player) at mythic level with 100% bolster, and then depending on your indomitables, warlords, buffs it will go up.

    As far as I have tested (I do not have them all) there are 2 attack companions that have a bugged skill (and it's official that they are going to be fixed), just a few that do the intended 7%-10%, and most of them have not been tuned up to be in that 7%-10%.

    So the problem is 2 bugged in the process of being fixed, and most of them not being tuned up to the correct damage range.

    By the way, there are companions bugged in the opposite way, like the githyanki that does not activate 1 of its 3 attacks so it's doing quite a lot less damage that it should.
  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,423 Arc User
    I found yesterday the Githyanki won't do her Spinning Strike if she isn't on the top level appearance setting. Summoned her to use on a character and noted the Spinning power seemed effective. Didn't like the final appearance of the companion and changed it to a lower one. Didn't see the power get used again but the fights were short so thought it was that. In the boss fight, my AP got drained so I went to the training dummies at the Stronghold to refill them. The entire time I attacked, the pet never used the power. The thought occurred to me to switch back to the high level skin and after restarting combat, she immediately used the power.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    > * Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage

    >

    > * Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%





    It's not really accurate to say % of player dmg, that depends on the player.



    My flame sprite does around 45k dps right now with 6 indomitable and 1 warlord inspiration.

    While I do around 200k on dummies.



    Other companions are weak in comparison, imo they should be buffed a bit to similar level and make their passives respected.



    For example batiri was doing similarly to flame sprite and even more on bosses because of its own 25% buff against bosses. Now it's complete rubbish, around 13k dps so you wouldn't even consider taking it anywhere near bosses.



    Cold iron warrior and air archon was doing fairly well, ~35k .



    I can't test xuna unfortunately.



    I wish they brought back target debuffs on companions. Like we used to have chult tiger.

    they should be about equivalent with augment companions in terms of damage added to player. Currently quickling / flame sprite are dealing too much.
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
  • synyster3006
    synyster3006 Member Posts: 57 Arc User

    @noworries#8859 it looks like most of the active companions are balanced with augments at the moment in terms of the amount of damage they deal. There are two exceptions:

    • Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
    • Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%
    All other active striker companions seem to be doing about 12% to 15% of the players damage, which when accounted for stat reductions to buff those strikers, ends up being about equivalent to the damage increase that augments give from the extra stats. Please consider toning down the damage of Flame Sprite and Quickling.
    Thanks,
    Neko
    @noworries#8859 please take care on balancing those fighting companions.
    the "nerf" you take removing your augment companion it's literally nothing compared.

    Also there's a problem on stacking multiple Warlord Inspirations:
    if you use 3 of them, the damage increment it's supposed to be scaled, but if you use different mount rarities (1 Mythic, 1 Legendary, 1 Epic, for example) that doesn't happen. You get 3x20% damage increment on your fighting companion.
  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021

    should i invest to sprite? or i will lose my tokens?

    Flame Sprite excels versus single targets, but does poorly in multi-target AoE situations.

    @noworries#8859 it looks like most of the active companions are balanced with augments at the moment in terms of the amount of damage they deal. There are two exceptions:

    • Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
    • Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%
    All other active striker companions seem to be doing about 12% to 15% of the players damage, which when accounted for stat reductions to buff those strikers, ends up being about equivalent to the damage increase that augments give from the extra stats. Please consider toning down the damage of Flame Sprite and Quickling.
    Thanks,
    Neko
    @noworries#8859 please take care on balancing those fighting companions.
    the "nerf" you take removing your augment companion it's literally nothing compared.

    Also there's a problem on stacking multiple Warlord Inspirations:
    if you use 3 of them, the damage increment it's supposed to be scaled, but if you use different mount rarities (1 Mythic, 1 Legendary, 1 Epic, for example) that doesn't happen. You get 3x20% damage increment on your fighting companion.
    I agree that Warlord's Inspiration is overpowered. I'd like to see it eventually decreased to 10%, but the ability to equip 3 of them is nice and adds to the game, cause a player has to decide between it and other great mount insignia bonuses.

    Don't be too quick to declare a companion as "over-powered". Players are still learning how to adjust their stats and gear. Player damage in the game will increase as we learn to maximize better, and as new content is released. There are several companions as good or even a little better in single-target than the ones that posts mention above.
  • synyster3006
    synyster3006 Member Posts: 57 Arc User

    should i invest to sprite? or i will lose my tokens?

    Flame Sprite excels versus single targets, but does poorly in multi-target AoE situations.

    @noworries#8859 it looks like most of the active companions are balanced with augments at the moment in terms of the amount of damage they deal. There are two exceptions:

    • Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
    • Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%
    All other active striker companions seem to be doing about 12% to 15% of the players damage, which when accounted for stat reductions to buff those strikers, ends up being about equivalent to the damage increase that augments give from the extra stats. Please consider toning down the damage of Flame Sprite and Quickling.
    Thanks,
    Neko
    @noworries#8859 please take care on balancing those fighting companions.
    the "nerf" you take removing your augment companion it's literally nothing compared.

    Also there's a problem on stacking multiple Warlord Inspirations:
    if you use 3 of them, the damage increment it's supposed to be scaled, but if you use different mount rarities (1 Mythic, 1 Legendary, 1 Epic, for example) that doesn't happen. You get 3x20% damage increment on your fighting companion.
    I agree that Warlord's Inspiration is overpowered. I'd like to see it eventually decreased to 10%, but the ability to equip 3 of them is nice and adds to the game, cause a player has to decide between it and other great mount insignia bonuses.

    Don't be too quick to declare a companion as "over-powered". Players are still learning how to adjust their stats and gear. Player damage in the game will increase as we learn to maximize better, and as new content is released. There are several companions as good or even a little better in single-target than the ones that posts mention above.
    Sure, you can equip 3xWarlord Inspirations, but it supposed to scale (20+10+5 = 35%). Instead, if u use 3 different rarity mounts, you get 20+20+20=60%.

    It's not about beeing over-powered, it just make no sense that a player 50k IL with flamesprite, deal more damage than a 54k IL player, both end-game and top players. but the second one spent 50 milion AD on collars, that the first one doesn't need because his companion deal damage in his place.
  • coolgor28#5062
    coolgor28#5062 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    So you think getting 3k item from worthless collars need to do more damage the then 50k player when both have caped their %. is worse then at least companion is doing damage, those companion have been reported since preview doing more damage then intended need to be looked at all of them but let player play. This system makes no sense when using gold gain collar 1k item level and you want to do more damage is like pay to win just buy 5 mythic collars and do more damage the the one that have all stat capped but dont buy worthless collars and spend 100M for 5 mythic.
    Guild

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    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User

    should i invest to sprite? or i will lose my tokens?

    Flame Sprite excels versus single targets, but does poorly in multi-target AoE situations.

    @noworries#8859 it looks like most of the active companions are balanced with augments at the moment in terms of the amount of damage they deal. There are two exceptions:

    • Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage
    • Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%
    All other active striker companions seem to be doing about 12% to 15% of the players damage, which when accounted for stat reductions to buff those strikers, ends up being about equivalent to the damage increase that augments give from the extra stats. Please consider toning down the damage of Flame Sprite and Quickling.
    Thanks,
    Neko
    @noworries#8859 please take care on balancing those fighting companions.
    the "nerf" you take removing your augment companion it's literally nothing compared.

    Also there's a problem on stacking multiple Warlord Inspirations:
    if you use 3 of them, the damage increment it's supposed to be scaled, but if you use different mount rarities (1 Mythic, 1 Legendary, 1 Epic, for example) that doesn't happen. You get 3x20% damage increment on your fighting companion.
    I agree that Warlord's Inspiration is overpowered. I'd like to see it eventually decreased to 10%, but the ability to equip 3 of them is nice and adds to the game, cause a player has to decide between it and other great mount insignia bonuses.

    Don't be too quick to declare a companion as "over-powered". Players are still learning how to adjust their stats and gear. Player damage in the game will increase as we learn to maximize better, and as new content is released. There are several companions as good or even a little better in single-target than the ones that posts mention above.
    Sure, you can equip 3xWarlord Inspirations, but it supposed to scale (20+10+5 = 35%). Instead, if u use 3 different rarity mounts, you get 20+20+20=60%.

    It's not about beeing over-powered, it just make no sense that a player 50k IL with flamesprite, deal more damage than a 54k IL player, both end-game and top players. but the second one spent 50 milion AD on collars, that the first one doesn't need because his companion deal damage in his place.
    Then I completely agree with you. It should be changed to 20%, 10%, 5% for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd equipped Warlord's Inspiration, regardless of the mount level. The broken system as it is, is an exploit, because no other Insignia powers work that way, it is not documented anywhere, and most players are unaware of how it works. A player with 5 mythic collars and 5 mythic companions would actually be at a disadvantage to a player running this 'technique'.

    A companion using the 20/20/20 technique will do 18.5% more damage than a companion using the 20/10/5 method.
  • elderislt#1066
    elderislt#1066 Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    > * Flame Sprite - Is dealing about 30% of the players damage

    >

    > * Quickling - A bit less and its hard to test but about 25%





    It's not really accurate to say % of player dmg, that depends on the player.



    My flame sprite does around 45k dps right now with 6 indomitable and 1 warlord inspiration.

    While I do around 200k on dummies.



    Other companions are weak in comparison, imo they should be buffed a bit to similar level and make their passives respected.



    For example batiri was doing similarly to flame sprite and even more on bosses because of its own 25% buff against bosses. Now it's complete rubbish, around 13k dps so you wouldn't even consider taking it anywhere near bosses.



    Cold iron warrior and air archon was doing fairly well, ~35k .



    I can't test xuna unfortunately.



    I wish they brought back target debuffs on companions. Like we used to have chult tiger.

    flame 230k max hit in tom for you looks gud ?
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    Proof of how absurd some active companions are:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789998880938262541/803086830429011978/unknown.png

    One player had flame sprite do 66M out of their 202M total damage. 33% of a players damage is not balanced. Others were using flame sprite in the run as well and the maximum the companion did was 40% of a players damage. They are way out performing augments.
  • xenocide#6577
    xenocide#6577 Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    The companions dmg is based on the players stats, a player with a better stat distribution will have a higher dps output from their companion than someone who has bad stats.

    Its nice that you are worried about over performing companions but with so many broken and not working at all I would MUCH rather see them fix the broken companions and get them into a working order before spending their time trying to tweak a little bit of damage here and there from a couple companions.

    Example, Lillend no longer uses her audio chord skill. As well as many other companions that are just not working period.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    The companions dmg is based on the players stats, a player with a better stat distribution will have a higher dps output from their companion than someone who has bad stats.

    Its nice that you are worried about over performing companions but with so many broken and not working at all I would MUCH rather see them fix the broken companions and get them into a working order before spending their time trying to tweak a little bit of damage here and there from a couple companions.

    Example, Lillend no longer uses her audio chord skill. As well as many other companions that are just not working period.

    Its really just flame sprite and quickling. It shouldn't take many resources to nerf them slightly.
  • synyster3006
    synyster3006 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    We’re just asking to not bring to life a fighting companion meta, because it’s trash. A real dps does his own damage on his own.
    If you want to help lower/newer players with fighting companion, go for it... but don’t make them overpowered.

    In the previous system, building yourself to maximize your companion damage, would have reduced your damage by a 20% at least.
    In the current system, you just have to remove some collars, lower your IL, and that’s it. You will lose like 5/7% dmg maybe... at most
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User

    We’re just asking to not bring to life a fighting companion meta, because it’s trash. A real dps does his own damage on his own.

    If you want to help lower/newer players with fighting companion, go for it... but don’t make them overpowered.



    In the previous system, building yourself to maximize your companion damage, would have reduced your damage by a 20% at least.

    In the current system, you just have to remove some collars, lower your IL, and that’s it. You will lose like 5/7% dmg maybe... at most

    If you are doing that to improve damage you are doing it wrong because you are lowering artificially your character damage so companions damage "looks" better.
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    please fix quickling and vicious dire wolf they do the same damage as the flame sprite did.
  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    nisckis said:

    We’re just asking to not bring to life a fighting companion meta, because it’s trash. A real dps does his own damage on his own.

    If you want to help lower/newer players with fighting companion, go for it... but don’t make them overpowered.



    In the previous system, building yourself to maximize your companion damage, would have reduced your damage by a 20% at least.

    In the current system, you just have to remove some collars, lower your IL, and that’s it. You will lose like 5/7% dmg maybe... at most

    If you are doing that to improve damage you are doing it wrong because you are lowering artificially your character damage so companions damage "looks" better.
    This is a good point. To show it as an example:

    Player + 6 Runestones + Augment + 3 Mount Insignia Bonuses + a re-usable consumable = 100% damage.
    Player with a combat companion has none of that. They deal about 85% damage.

    100% = Augment player
    85% = Combat Companion Player
    17% = Combat Companion

    This is an average case above. The combat companion is dealing about one fifth of its character's damage.

    Superb single target companions will do better in their niche role... a long battle with a single target.
    They will appear to do much much better if a character is doing poorly due to a bad build or inefficient technique.
  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User

    please fix quickling and vicious dire wolf they do the same damage as the flame sprite did.

    Flame sprite was at least twice that of the Dire Wolf, not the same.
  • xenocide#6577
    xenocide#6577 Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    I was testing both the quickling and vicious direwolf and they seemed to do about the same dmg output as alpha compy, traveling entertainer, abyssal chicken, fire archon.... and well every other companion that I had.

    I would really like to see some numbers as to why you think those 2 companions are doing too much dmg. The traveling entertainer's firework attack actualy hits harder than both of those companions attacks. Not saying the traveling entertainer does great dmg by anymeans it just has an attack that hits harder than the 2 that you mentioned.
  • xcessiveforce40
    xcessiveforce40 Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    It could be that players who feel "entitled" to have higher dps due to their item level are getting their feelers hurt when they dont out DPS a 50k player who has spent more time adjusting their character around their active companion. The game shouldn't just "only" be about your item level. That's just a score for reference of your "potential". So if you are getting beat by lower IL characters, up your game to your "potential". Worry less about the nerfs in a severely broken game.
    Founder: Xcessiveforce GF, Xcessiveheals DC, XcessiveRange HR, XcessiveArcana CW, XcessiveStab TR
  • masbrenden
    masbrenden Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    I dont mind it. You dont have comp in pvp. We need all dps we can get. Why you fight among yourself. Dps is so salty. Most of them. Salty in a bad way that is. We tank can sacrifice dmg for support. we have to put our ego away to let you deal the dmg and focus on tanking. But you cant have one guy that have more dmg. Its laughable.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    At this point it might make sense to give augments a slight buff instead of nerfing the actives. the 2250 extra enhancement stats just are not enough to make up for some of the companion damage. Instead of 2250 to the 3 stat enchancements, how about just 4% in each stat to the right side? That would help balance quite a bit.
  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021

    At this point it might make sense to give augments a slight buff instead of nerfing the actives. the 2250 extra enhancement stats just are not enough to make up for some of the companion damage. Instead of 2250 to the 3 stat enchancements, how about just 4% in each stat to the right side? That would help balance quite a bit.

    I'd like to see a minor buff to augments: +1 to an ability score each time an augment upgrades.
    I'd like to see a minor nerf to combat companions: Warlord's Inspiration should be dropped to 10% each, or made to stack at 20% + 10% + 5%. Three Warlord's Inspiration multiplies companion damage by 1.6x currently.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    I dont mind it. You dont have comp in pvp. We need all dps we can get. Why you fight among yourself. Dps is so salty. Most of them. Salty in a bad way that is. We tank can sacrifice dmg for support. we have to put our ego away to let you deal the dmg and focus on tanking. But you cant have one guy that have more dmg. Its laughable.

    Its not about having an ego, its about the game having at least some semblance of a skill gap. I want augments to be an equivalent damage increase to using vicious dire wolf or whichever active you choose to use. The fix would be as simple as increasing the augment enhancement stats from 2250 to 3.5% to 4%. That increase should close the gap between augments and actives.
  • percemer
    percemer Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 632 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    I found yesterday the Githyanki won't do her Spinning Strike if she isn't on the top level appearance setting. Summoned her to use on a character and noted the Spinning power seemed effective. Didn't like the final appearance of the companion and changed it to a lower one. Didn't see the power get used again but the fights were short so thought it was that. In the boss fight, my AP got drained so I went to the training dummies at the Stronghold to refill them. The entire time I attacked, the pet never used the power. The thought occurred to me to switch back to the high level skin and after restarting combat, she immediately used the power.

    Thanks ~ escalating for investigation


    Percemer
    EU Community Manager @ Gearbox Publishing
    ----------
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  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,423 Arc User
    percemer said:

    pitshade said:

    I found yesterday the Githyanki won't do her Spinning Strike if she isn't on the top level appearance setting. Summoned her to use on a character and noted the Spinning power seemed effective. Didn't like the final appearance of the companion and changed it to a lower one. Didn't see the power get used again but the fights were short so thought it was that. In the boss fight, my AP got drained so I went to the training dummies at the Stronghold to refill them. The entire time I attacked, the pet never used the power. The thought occurred to me to switch back to the high level skin and after restarting combat, she immediately used the power.

    Thanks ~ escalating for investigation


    Specifically, I checked the box to use the latest appearance, instead of setting it manually, if that helps.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother