An Apology

docsc00ter
docsc00ter Member Posts: 288 Arc User
in General Discussion (PC)
I posted this over on Reddit. And I'm pretty sure nobody from Cryptic will read the thread about the Facebook post over there. (I'm pretty sure nobody from Cryptic will read the reply on Facebook itself, for that matter.) But, for what it's worth:

"You know, I think there's significant information in what is NOT present in Cryptic's communication today: an APOLOGY.

"There's little doubt that a lot of people are unhappy -- with the changes, with the lack of communication in advance about the timing of the release, about leaving content creators in the lurch, about players from the Test Server feeling ignored."It's common business practice to try and satisfy a customer. It's not always possible (and it certainly isn't for Cryptic in this event). But, as much as possible, good customer service would say something like, "I'm sorry you're having a bad experience. I'm here to help correct the situation as much as possible." They are sort of saying the second half here ("we will make corrections") without the VERY significant first half ("we're sorry").

"Oh, sure. They could carefully craft that apology to avoid responsibility. There's a big difference between "I'm sorry we made this choice in this manner" and "I'm sorry you are having a bad experience." But even the latter would be an improvement over "we're monitoring discussions" and referring to customer distress as "concerns" rather than "complaints, outrage, disappointment, frustration, etc."

"This is an opportunity for Cryptic to demonstrate courageous backbone and apologize. Things were not handled correctly; just about everyone can agree on that. Players from the Test Server voiced all of this prior to the release, yet here we are sorting through the mess on the Live Server. What Cryptic may not understand is that most sane, reasonable, mature people will actually ADMIRE them for owning up to the botched choice. Apologies tend to calm down angry voices; avoidance just makes them louder and more angry because they feel like they still aren't being heard."

Personally, an apology would go a long way to reassure me that Cryptic understands its players' experience in times like this. It would communicate that they care. It just might even give me hope going forward. I'm not expecting it, mind you, but it would be a good start...
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Comments

  • stark760
    stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    Agree with you, but i doubt you'll get a response.
  • kumaluca
    kumaluca Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    I been playing this game since the day it came out. I don't need an apology, I would rather them say "This game is free and we need to make it harder sometimes so people buy more HAMSTER" instead of always being like "we are making things better!!" hahaha it's stupid.
  • shugensha
    shugensha Member Posts: 191 Arc User
    Tbh i don't need an apology. Does this changes destroy my game? Yes, but it's needed from time to time to keep the game challenging.
    I am not happy with the changes and the only things to do rn is suck it and keep playing or leave for a month or two.
    The changes won't revert, the only that will happen will be small adjustments in the new system and magnitudes.
    And maaaaybe some reworks on some powers to make them more "viable" for the changes.
    The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.

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  • netherdragon#0997
    netherdragon#0997 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Figures right I finally give this game a chance and started playing 2 days ago after years of keeping it on the backburner and they pull this kind of stuff. It's really not a good sign for newcomers that keep your game alive. You know what hurts the most, I was actually having a REALLY fun time playing before the patch hit and now im kind of in disbelief how bad the game has become with one patch.
  • xvimn134
    xvimn134 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    The problem for NW is the population is relatively low compared to other mmorpg, and devs always just see the idea of 1 or 2 people instead of trusting the majority, when they get advice of 1 or 2 people the idea devs will get is inevitably always biased. For example, most end-game players would't care for medium level content. PVE players wont care about pvp. Of course they can not satisfy everyone but they should at least hearing the feedback of most people instead of 1 or 2 people. A way to fix it is to have something like vote system, which can be implemented in forum or discord for example, then devs will have better idea what is the best for majority of people. Democracy!

    One example here is the vote for potential pvp change which I sometimes conduct in pvp discord (see picture for some examples in the past). I am sure some devs have seen these vote before but not sure how much they want to listen to majority.



    Post edited by xvimn134 on
  • stark760
    stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    rangerreek said:

    We knew the changes were coming.

    And now we know what players think of those changes, even if devs want to ignore the forum.
  • feadan#2363
    feadan#2363 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Meh, I like the changes.

    It's nice to be able to use non-augment companions without gimping yourself. It's also nice that building your char is now more than mindlessly stacking power.

    Sure, it needs some balancing but fundamentally it seems solid so far.
  • finiplays#2580
    finiplays#2580 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Given this was on preview for the length of time it was and any one with a clue and a calendar could tell this was going to release on Thursday or next Tuesday at the latest. So to say members of the community weren't aware of the pending release date is short sighted. To believe you or anyone else is entitled to an apology on this issue, the only thing you are entitled to do is play the game. There only thing to be to be sorry for is that developers have to deal with Entitled winging HAMSTERS.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User
    Londo: I've never apologized for anything in my life.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • auron#6793
    auron#6793 Member Posts: 369 Arc User
    I'll be honest here, cryptic did give us warning this was coming last year. however it's not the timing that has me upset it is the sheer number of issues this change has brought with it.

    Bugs and issues that had been brought up on preview where not addressed and allowed to go live. Some of these bugs gamebreaking even. These bugs should have been placed in the "known issues" section of the patch notes at the bear minimum.

    Some balancing of early content should also have been done.
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  • anomalea
    anomalea Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    There's good reason to be surprised at the timing. The updated roadmap shows these changes occuring in February, after the new dungeon release.
  • rosh#3730
    rosh#3730 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    I will say this right now since Cryptic wants Feedback


    Here is Real Feedback and I am not ranting or saying do this or that

    All I am doing is just stating facts that actually happened today
    we have had members that are crying and cannot adjust and other people literally gave their items to Guild Mates and announced their Retirement from the Game

    This system was not in state that allows it to be pushed to live, simple as that and it need more fine tuning before publishing it
    All of preview bugs were carried to PC


    The fact Cryptic made PC's Server as Preview server is just unprofessional

    we should have had twitch streams and streams show casing this system to players who don't go to preview
    Have Videos on Neverwinter/Cryptic 's official youtube channel show casing that system

    For me personally I am good but I am just literally just telling you what I have been seeing which is really sad
  • rangerreek
    rangerreek Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    horus#3657 said:

    I will say this right now since Cryptic wants Feedback


    Here is Real Feedback and I am not ranting or saying do this or that

    All I am doing is just stating facts that actually happened today
    we have had members that are crying and cannot adjust and other people literally gave their items to Guild Mates and announced their Retirement from the Game

    This system was not in state that allows it to be pushed to live, simple as that and it need more fine tuning before publishing it
    All of preview bugs were carried to PC


    The fact Cryptic made PC's Server as Preview server is just unprofessional

    we should have had twitch streams and streams show casing this system to players who don't go to preview
    Have Videos on Neverwinter/Cryptic 's official youtube channel show casing that system

    For me personally I am good but I am just literally just telling you what I have been seeing which is really sad

    I'll give you another set of facts, though:

    Today in game, in my alliance these same things were happening.

    And then people started asking questions instead of being angry.

    I believe every player has right to feel how they want to feel about anything. However, what is true for some is not true for others.

    We were able to do everything that people have been complaining about, in a group of non-endgamers, with a couple exceptions that have been sent in.

    To demand that they do streams on Twitch or YouTube videos to placate a certain group of players when it was already stated there are people who don't go to preview is counter intuitive to the point that was trying to be made. There are large groups of people who also do not go to Twitch, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook... etc.

    Perspective matters. What you say happened is true, however it isn't indicative of the entire player base.

    Just a counter point to your point.

    People who left in mod 16 were looking for a reason to move on. The same is happening here.

    Just because something is suggested and not implemented does not mean that they haven't seen or read it.

    The unbelievable sense of entitlement that players have, in all games, is beyond me.

    And to the creators who keep saying that they were blindsided by this... shame on you. It has been everywhere for months.
    Fight with honor, die with glory!
  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    I think it's fair to say that (probably) most people would be cool with the changes if they could get through the lower level content with some challenge but not get wiped all the time - that's on all classes.

    I remember taking my first levelling characters (DC & CW) into IWD for the 1st time. My toons barely qualified for the zone and every fight was a hard one. It taught me better mechanics, appropriate use of skills and a real appreciation for stats, boons and builds.

    I'm all for challenging content but it seems like (from comments) enemy npc strength and survivability is scaled somewhat too high for players levelling toons in level-appropriate zones - I'm on xbox so can't really say, I don't know if there's a degree of 'players could face-tank groups before, so why can't they now' regardless of class or playstyle (implying that they haven't learned the old lessons of pulling/positioning/targeting the right enemies in a group 1st) or if it really is just too hard.

    I think one issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is the change in the effectiveness of Defence. It has been dropped from a max of 90% effectiveness to a max of 50%. That's huge and quite possibly the source of the survivability issues.

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  • rangerreek
    rangerreek Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    @horus#3657

    And all I was stating was another set of facts.

    New players in my guild/alliance were struggling and we helped them get through it. We help them earn their stripes, and get that AD grind. All day long. I guess we are the anomaly?

    I watch all of the mediums that you spoke of. And it doesn't prove your point, at all. What it does is show me that, imo, people overreact to an over-correction.

    How many people do you think are in the game and don't speak up because of the ridicule they'll receive if they disagree with a person on whether or not it's ok for them to like a portion of the game.
    Don't think it happens? Well, I have another set of "facts" it does happen. All the time.

    I empathize with the players who are unhappy, and angry, and avidly decry all that Cryptic has done to them over the years.

    I, as I am sure you, have been an avid gamer for a seriously long time. These threats of leaving, and "I hate the game" are no different then in any other forum I have ever been apart of.

    You presented facts that are not representative of the entire player base.
    You speak in terms that are absolute, and they are not absolute.

    They ARE representative of a section of the player base.
    They ARE NOT the entirety of the player base.

    A majority of my alliance does not participate on any of the mediums that have been stated, but they are all members of our Discord. We take it upon ourselves to help those who "don't know any better."

    Overall I think that the loudest portion of the player base, the ones who cry that the sky is falling every single time there is a change, veils their want for inclusion of new player friendly content behind selfish means. It is farcical at best.

    Years of complaints from the player base, and non-action from the old team, have built the foundation that a large majority of the game have witnessed for years.

    Has it ever occurred that the reason they don't listen, or have the appearance of not listening, is due to the insane amounts of vitriol that their "community" has spewed at them day in and day out for years on end?

    To the angry players:

    Be angry, it's your right to enjoy/not enjoy the game. Leave or don't. It's your choice.

    But just remember that your are not ENTITLED to anything from them at all. Your enjoyment is in your hands, not theirs.








    Fight with honor, die with glory!
  • netherdragon#0997
    netherdragon#0997 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    > @armadeonx said:
    > I think it's fair to say that (probably) most people would be cool with the changes if they could get through the lower level content with some challenge but not get wiped all the time - that's on all classes.
    >
    > I remember taking my first levelling characters (DC & CW) into IWD for the 1st time. My toons barely qualified for the zone and every fight was a hard one. It taught me better mechanics, appropriate use of skills and a real appreciation for stats, boons and builds.
    >
    > I'm all for challenging content but it seems like (from comments) enemy npc strength and survivability is scaled somewhat too high for players levelling toons in level-appropriate zones - I'm on xbox so can't really say, I don't know if there's a degree of 'players could face-tank groups before, so why can't they now' regardless of class or playstyle (implying that they haven't learned the old lessons of pulling/positioning/targeting the right enemies in a group 1st) or if it really is just too hard.
    >
    > I think one issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is the change in the effectiveness of Defence. It has been dropped from a max of 90% effectiveness to a max of 50%. That's huge and quite possibly the source of the survivability issues.


    I'm a newcomer and I chose the ranger a few days ago which already has low defense, top it off with these scaled tough enemies and now im basically made of paper. So yes defense and survivability is playing a big role in the issues im experiencing.
  • vastano#2343
    vastano#2343 Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    auron#6793 said:

    I'll be honest here, cryptic did give us warning this was coming last year. however it's not the timing that has me upset it is the sheer number of issues this change has brought with it.

    Bugs and issues that had been brought up on preview where not addressed and allowed to go live. Some of these bugs gamebreaking even. These bugs should have been placed in the "known issues" section of the patch notes at the bear minimum.

    Some balancing of early content should also have been done.

    no not true the original warning was that bonding stones would be removed to make scaling easier
    those of us who read the forums (a tiny percentage of the playerbase) first knew about the changes if you scrolled all the way to the bottom of the main page and looked at preview server sub forum and saw combat rework
    and then jumped across to preview and tried it (first itineratiion was a total mess)
    then after several months of patch after patch after patch on preview (which probably 5% of the player population go to) they dropped a pretty broken update onto live with what 3 hours notice?
    no wonder everyone is mighty piddled off

  • vastano#2343
    vastano#2343 Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    horus#3657 said:

    @rangerreek all I said was stating facts which is feedback, me personally I had my build already 2 weeks before launch so I know what I was doing



    If you think it is not entire player base well go look at their official video on youtube what players are saying right now in comments



    If you want perspective look at what people saying in zone chat in protector enclave



    Lots of new players who became level 80 cannot queue for redq because they need 10 epic companions , rank 9 enchants , lowest weapon and armor enchant and artifacts at epic and 1 epic mount, this is just the minimum to get new player to 30k you dont think that is a problem for new player to play content.



    Trying to get that 30k item level is extremely hard for new player



    the system does not put into consideration new players



    For veterans it is fun and I myself love it



    There are people crunching numbers and veterans got over it but for new players trying to get their 100k AD they can't and that is big problem for them to upgrade their items



    So my perspective is not just the casual or veteran but also the new player



    And I said this on preview like maniac this is elemental evil all over again



    Note: other gaming studio always show case upcoming systems to players so I am not asking for something that is out of the wheel

    as did i horus i had been playing on preview to get ready since this first hit already spent countless hours tweeking and retweeking with every patch
    when this hit live with no warning i had already saved 8 mill ad and 5k tb and just logged onto preview screenshotted all my gear logged onto live and coppied it over
    but we are in the minority here
    but what is really annoying me is how this broken mess that was preview was ever allowed to go to live

  • mythdemeanour
    mythdemeanour Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    I saw your post on Reddii as I was leaving for work so I did not reply. I will do so here.

    Here's the problem with an apology, it assumes blame and generally requires something in return. The Devs IMO don't want to give away any more free stuff and thus just issue a statement. It has become quite clear as of late the only things the Devs want out of the game is a cash machine, and if you are not a whale you're out of luck. Look no further than the cost of upgrading collars, mounts and companions to mythic to see this fact.

    Have you noticed the VERY high level have no problem with the new patch?

    Mythics across the board makes a HUGE difference. If the average player is stuck trying to get through an areas they used to breeze though, then maybe they will open their wallet now!

    To me this feels more like it is working as intended, so any apology to me would just feel empty anyways.
  • netherdragon#0997
    netherdragon#0997 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    If the devs think new players will open up wallets just to progress in a free game there out of their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> minds.

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