Fixing the ad exchange

hyzakyte7 · October 2020

So the AD exchange has become well over a problem now. With over 11mil backed up zen in the exchange, its becoming intimidating to see and easily turns players away. So how can it be fixed? Well here are a few ideas to help the system in my eyes:

- Make wards, both preservation and coalescent, daily rewards from past content. Maybe each day you can get either 10 preswards or 1 coalwards from one of the cult of the dragon attacks or dragon farm in wod.

- Limit a weekly cap a person can put AD in for zen. Having people have millions of AD backing up the exchange is too chaotic.

- Make things cheaper and add more to the wonderous bazaar, making it useful to both spend zen on AD and spend AD instead of trading it for zen.

- Bring back, but don't make exclusive, rewards for player who do spend zen. So more players are compelled to buy zen and trade it for AD with the bazaar (add sales?)

joe7777 · October 2020

Zen going on sale might promote buying Zen, but in the end Zen purchases may be hurting from how dissatisfied many people are with the current state of the game and the direction it has gone.

As for the backlog problem, we definitely need more Astral Diamond sinks in this game. The Teleport Hub would be a good way to do this if they were more strategically placed and not just a poor player's Travel Signpost that is completely inferior to the actual Signpost, thus making VIP players prefer the Signpost and ignore the new feature.

arazith07 · October 2020

What they need to do, is to bind items gotten on the zen store to account. This will of course anger those who try to sell items on the AH, but this behavior is precisely why when a backlog occurs, the exchange never recovers to eliminate the backlog. We need to address why a player wouldn't sell Zen for AD, which is the driving force of the exchange. If items cost more AD on the AH than the AD they could get with the ZAX, players won't use the ZAX.

sagakaiyume · October 2020

They won't be doing anything and won't see it as a problem, plus black Friday coming up - so expect a backlog. PC has nearly 40 mil backlog with no word and high doubts anything will be done, which is 65 days worth of backlog.

joe7777 · October 2020

PC has almost always had a backlog though for who knows how long, whereas PS4 only in recent months achieved perma-backlog status and XB1 just starting having a backlog.

sameriker · October 2020

First I don't play this on my PS4, I am not that cruel to my Playstation. I have it on my PC.

Moderator edited out comment regarding previous moderation.

How many people, who posted this type of recommendations, actually bought and paid for with cash, any amount of Zen this year? I bought $200 worth this year. There is nothing broken to be repaired or fixed. This is a user to user exchange. I buy Zen with my cash, then I decide if I want to toss the remainder out for AD. Adding items to the Zen store isn't going to make me part with my extra Zen. If they add items to the Zen store, I may actually spend ALL the Zen and have nothing to give the players.

When I buy Zen, the exchange is unaffected by my purchase. When I spend Zen in the Zen store, the exchange is unaffected by my purchase. The only time I affect the backlog, is after I look at the remainder of my Zen, and throw it at the exchange. I have stated this as politely as I can. Anyone not buying their Zen with cash, is the problem. Why would any player who is using the exchange to convert AD to Zen, use the same system to convert it back again?

It is my opinion, you need to get in line, and wait your turn.

micky1p00 · October 2020

sameriker said:
Anyone not buying their Zen with cash, is the problem.

How is using a system as intended is a problem?
Providing an option to buy AD for those who buy Zen with cash is not a problem. The problem is that people who have Zen do not want AD. Hence the problem is in the items offered in the game, and mostly that the most expensive and currently most sought after items can't be traded at the AH (T3 lures).

sameriker said:

Why would any player who is using the exchange to convert AD to Zen, use the same system to convert it back again?

Mainly for two reasons, if there is suddenly something they want to get for AD either to use or to invest, and second if in normal conditions (not backlog) you can make income out of the fluctuations.
For example, If tomorrow there will be WB 40% discount, you will see drop in the backlog. or If there is some limited time item for several millions, for example an account wide mythical mount choice pack for 5mil, you will see people convert.

froger · October 2020

I'm thinking the backlog is intentional. Having it means if you want the hot item of the week from the Zen market, you have to coin up or always be prepared by having Zen waiting. Which I'm fine with, devs gotta eat too.

greywynd · October 2020

froger#9967 said:
I'm thinking the backlog is intentional. Having it means if you want the hot item of the week from the Zen market, you have to coin up or always be prepared by having Zen waiting. Which I'm fine with, devs gotta eat too.

That presupposes that Cryptic plays with the exchange. I doubt that.

froger · October 2020

Not directly, but they do make Zen desirable through product offerings.

greywynd · October 2020

Businesses often offer limited times sales. That is nothing new.

zimxero · October 2020

1. If conversion was instant and unlimited:

Players capable of generating high levels of AD would not buy Zen. The price of sellable Zen items would come down to break even point. Players willing to spend cash would buy more AD instead of buying items. Cash earnings for company would fall.

2. If AD per zen was increased to 1000:1 ratio:

Cash players would buy more AD. Prices in market would slightly rise (due to more AD, less stuff). Cash earnings for company would stay same.

3. If AD cost per Zen was increased:

Prices on market would slightly rise. there would be a decrease in the backlog. Cash earnings for company would slightly increase.

4. If a limited amount of AD could be converted to Zen instantly (no backlog), each day or week:

Prices on market would stabilize some. Newly available Zen items would not be overpriced for as long. The backlog would decrease. Cash earnings for the company would stay about the same.

The reason everyone is saying nothing can change is because in scenario #1 (the one most are asking for), the company loses, and paying customers lose too. In the long run, all players lose as the game would go into decline. I recommend #3 as the best solution, perhaps used in combination with #4.

arazith07 · October 2020

None of this addresses the problem that a backlog creates. In that items sold on the zen market can be sold on the AH for an AD cost higher than that of if that player where to use the ZAX for AD. There is zero incentive for a player that buys Zen with cash to even use the ZAX.

plasticbat · October 2020

Disallowing stuff that is sold in Zen store be sold in AH will help the backlog.

This way:

Zen holder who wants AD cannot bypass Zax to use Zen store item to get more AD. It increases supply of Zen within Zax -> decrease the backlog.

For those who are doing AD -> Zax -> Zen -> Zen item -> AH -> more AD -> Zax -> more Zen -> Zen item -> AH .... infinite loops, they cannot milk others because of the backlog any more. This group of people want backlog (long enough for others to buy their inflated price Zen store item from AH, short enough for them to get the cycle going) because that is how they can drive the loop to generate more AD for themselves. They cannot have profit if there is no backlog. They need the existence of the backlog. If they cannot sell Zen item in AH anymore, it will decrease this type of Zen demand within Zax -> decrease the backlog

i.e. Zax will be used by those who :
1. really want the Zen store item for themselves
2. need to buy AD (and this is the only way)
3. keeping Zen for themselves to play the Zax market (if the exchange is below the cap). They can gain or burn by that.

froger · October 2020

> @greywynd said:
> Businesses often offer limited times sales. That is nothing new.
Yes, but in this case they affect the market by placing a cap on the ADX.

joe7777 · October 2020

froger#9967 said:
> @greywynd said:

> Businesses often offer limited times sales. That is nothing new.

Yes, but in this case they affect the market by placing a cap on the ADX.

They already raised the cap once, it used to be 500 iirc. Raising it again is only a bandaid fix for the backlog and not a permanent solution. In fact, iirc, it did not take long for pc to have a backlog again after the cap rose to 750.

sameriker · October 2020

arazith07 said:
None of this addresses the problem that a backlog creates. In that items sold on the zen market can be sold on the AH for an AD cost higher than that of if that player where to use the ZAX for AD. There is zero incentive for a player that buys Zen with cash to even use the ZAX.

BINGO! We have a winner. If the company offered people incentives to place Zen into the exchange, it would less the backlog. The trick would be, how do you tell the paid players from the freemiums? The only way they will entice me to trade Zen to AD is a better store for AD items. The Wondrous Blizzard ... ok that was auto correct and not me, but I am leaving it ... is a joke compared to what they offer up in Champions and Star Trek. I often feel like this isn't the same company, even tho I know it is the same company.

I might come off as angry sometimes, but I get the entitled player vibe a lot more here than when I play Star Trek or any other game. Just because you can grind AD doesn't make you entitled to special treatment. A friend of mine said, the average wait is up to about 80 days on PC. I don't know how long your wait is on PS4. My advice still stands that if you expect to trade AD for Zen, you will have to be patient or bust open the piggy bank. I would rather spend $100 on Zen than to farm my butt off collecting 7,500,000 AD and waiting another month to collect the Zen. That is $3 a day, I would think people who own computers and pay for internet can afford $3 per day?

plasticbat · October 2020

Having incentive to spend AD such as having better store item in Wondrous Blizzard does not mean people who has Zen would use Zax to get AD. It can help but there are better way to get more AD using the same amount of Zen without using Zax.

autumnwitch · November 2020

arazith07 said:
What they need to do, is to bind items gotten on the zen store to account. This will of course anger those who try to sell items on the AH, but this behavior is precisely why when a backlog occurs, the exchange never recovers to eliminate the backlog. We need to address why a player wouldn't sell Zen for AD, which is the driving force of the exchange. If items cost more AD on the AH than the AD they could get with the ZAX, players won't use the ZAX.

This would also cause a decrease in Zen cash sales which means it ain't gonna happen. People who buy Zen items to sell represent a nice % of Zen cash sales.

plasticbat · November 2020

autumnwitch said:

arazith07 said:
What they need to do, is to bind items gotten on the zen store to account. This will of course anger those who try to sell items on the AH, but this behavior is precisely why when a backlog occurs, the exchange never recovers to eliminate the backlog. We need to address why a player wouldn't sell Zen for AD, which is the driving force of the exchange. If items cost more AD on the AH than the AD they could get with the ZAX, players won't use the ZAX.
This would also cause a decrease in Zen cash sales which means it ain't gonna happen. People who buy Zen items to sell represent a nice % of Zen cash sales.

The exact reason why Cryptic does not have incentive to improve the backlog.

Because of the backlog, people uses cash to buy Zen to buy Zen item for selling to AH to get more AD instead of Zax.
Because of the backlog, people who "has to" get VIP (which is not sold in AH) is forced to spend money to get Zen (or quit).
Because of the backlog, people who "has to" get any limited time offers is forced to spend money to get Zen to get the item.

IMO, telling Cryptic to improve the backlog is waste of time. They may 'do something' for PR reason but they don't really have incentive to do so.

autumnwitch · November 2020

One thing that might be able to do is create a Hybrid AD/Zen exchange.

So they would leave what we have now just as it is for people willing to wait and use it and another one that you could trade AD for B-Zen (Bound Zen) meaning that 100% of what you buy or upgrade with the hybrid Zen (B-Zen) is account bound and can not be sold/traded ever, including anything you use it to upgrade. For example, if you upgrade an unbound enchantment with B-Zen wards you can not sell it ever. It is bound to account.

They could also add a % premium to Zen items bought with the B-Zen and perhaps even offer a better exchange rate for those selling AD as none of the B-Zen items will ever find their was onto the AH and cause inflation.

froger · November 2020

> @joe7777 said:
> (Quote)
> They already raised the cap once, it used to be 500 iirc. Raising it again is only a bandaid fix for the backlog and not a permanent solution. In fact, iirc, it did not take long for pc to have a backlog again after the cap rose to 750.

Correct. And Xbox which was under 500 before the change (around 390 iirc) and almost instantly went over 500 after.

While PS4 and PC have been at the cap for a while, xbox players have almost always enjoyed instant exchanges, until recently.

No cap will solve the backlog. But at what cost, I'm not sure. What's worse, waiting a month or three to exchange or the rate being too high to ever exchange?

In reality the backlog is nothing more than an inconvenience, worse so for free players (I am a mostly free player). Are there things they can do to change it? Yes. Do they have incentive to change it? Only they know.

joe7777 · November 2020

froger#9967 said:
> @joe7777 said:

> (Quote)

> They already raised the cap once, it used to be 500 iirc. Raising it again is only a bandaid fix for the backlog and not a permanent solution. In fact, iirc, it did not take long for pc to have a backlog again after the cap rose to 750.

Correct. And Xbox which was under 500 before the change (around 390 iirc) and almost instantly went over 500 after.

While PS4 and PC have been at the cap for a while, xbox players have almost always enjoyed instant exchanges, until recently.

No cap will solve the backlog. But at what cost, I'm not sure. What's worse, waiting a month or three to exchange or the rate being too high to ever exchange?

In reality the backlog is nothing more than an inconvenience, worse so for free players (I am a mostly free player). Are there things they can do to change it? Yes. Do they have incentive to change it? Only they know.

As I said before, the best solution is an AD sink to give players something to take that AD out for and spend it on. The Astral Lockbox was a good vacuum and even managed to take out PS4's backlog its first time released, but the backlog grew again and the 2nd release of the Lockbox did not kill off the backlog. PC has had a continuous backlog far longer than PS4 has, as ours has only been around for a couple months I'd say.

missdayum · November 2020

Agreed on the first post. My 800 zen (750AD each) are up for almost a week now. Some players say it can take up to 8 days.

plasticbat · November 2020

missdayum said:
Agreed on the first post. My 800 zen (750AD each) are up for almost a week now. Some players say it can take up to 8 days.

8 days is fast. The current wait time is PC is about 65 days and increasing.

missdayum · November 2020

plasticbat said:

missdayum said:
Agreed on the first post. My 800 zen (750AD each) are up for almost a week now. Some players say it can take up to 8 days.
8 days is fast. The current wait time is PC is about 65 days and increasing.

65 days? Holy moly. That's just bananas.

plasticbat · November 2020

missdayum said:

plasticbat said:

missdayum said:
Agreed on the first post. My 800 zen (750AD each) are up for almost a week now. Some players say it can take up to 8 days.
8 days is fast. The current wait time is PC is about 65 days and increasing.
65 days? Holy moly. That's just bananas.

I consider that as the result of the recent ease to get AD in game. PS4 is moving toward there too. No, this is not the worst wait time for me in this game. 2 month wait time is only 1/3 of my record.

The following is my recent posting history in PC.

id post recv
#246 7/18 9/6 yr 2020
#247 8/7 10/5
#248 8/10 10/8
#249 8/17 10/17
#250 8/24 10/28
#251 9/6
#252 10/7
#254 10/13
#255 10/29

For me, this is 'normal'. 8 days wait? I am in heaven.

missdayum · November 2020

plasticbat said:

missdayum said:

plasticbat said:

missdayum said:
Agreed on the first post. My 800 zen (750AD each) are up for almost a week now. Some players say it can take up to 8 days.
8 days is fast. The current wait time is PC is about 65 days and increasing.
65 days? Holy moly. That's just bananas.
I consider that as the result of the recent ease to get AD in game. PS4 is moving toward there too. No, this is not the worst wait time for me in this game. 2 month wait time is only 1/3 of my record.

The following is my recent posting history in PC.

id post recv
#246 7/18 9/6 yr 2020
#247 8/7 10/5
#248 8/10 10/8
#249 8/17 10/17
#250 8/24 10/28
#251 9/6
#252 10/7
#254 10/13
#255 10/29

For me, this is 'normal'. 8 days wait? I am in heaven.

Alright I finally got my 800 Zen / 750 each as mentioned above. So here you go for PS4:

Listed 10/23/2020
Received 11/04/2020

That will put us on PS4 up now to 13+ days for one exchange.

cts2000 · November 2020

Players can make 100k AD per day, what is stopping them from posting that in the adx every day, eventually you've got zen coming in on a regular basis. Also nothing wrong with buying zen anytime there are sales in the PS4/Xbox store, etc. It's what I do.....plan ahead !

Ohhhh....I forgot something. The 'I want it FREE and I want it NOW !' brigade can't seem to get a handle on that concept.

plasticbat · November 2020

cts2000#2706 said:
Players can make 100k AD per day, what is stopping them from posting that in the adx every day, eventually you've got zen coming in on a regular basis. Also nothing wrong with buying zen anytime there are sales in the PS4/Xbox store, etc. It's what I do.....plan ahead !

Ohhhh....I forgot something. The 'I want it FREE and I want it NOW !' brigade can't seem to get a handle on that concept.

The cap of number of posting limits you to post that everyday if the wait time is longer than 5 days.

darthpotater · November 2020

We need to understand how we have reached the actual situation.

There where bugs, exploits, etc. That impacted AD generation, yes, but the backlog was created when the company started to make items bound. The AH is the biggest AD sink in the game, and will allways be. The less items you can put in the AH, less AD go out of the game, and less incentive to trade Zen for AD.

There are other problems too, ofcourse we can analyze all. But we all agree that AD are not so desirable than ZEN. But when the game was designed originally this was not the case. To have BIS items, you had to farm them yourself (and was quite difficult to obtain some items), or let other players farm then and buy them in the AH.

That worked fine, some players had more time / dedication, and others had cash. The game was designed for this, and the ZAX was balanced, up and down, some speculation but was under the cap.

Then the game evolved, changed the original idea, and with other reasons here commented the backlog is rising with no limit. But for example, the cycle of buy zen / wait offers / sell / repeat, is a CONSECUENCE, not a cause of the backlog. Doing this is profitable for players because there is a backlog.

This went too far, and now is very hard to fix. And we assume they are winning more money with the actual situation but all is pure speculation, we dont have any data and only Cryptic knows this. Im not so sure this is the best scenario for Cryptic.

And ofcourse, making avernus hunt items and lures not sellable in AH is a very bad idea IMHO

Fixing the ad exchange

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