In this post I'll try to wrap up the last three points from my first post.
Late game / end game rewards and progression as it relates to equipment, upgrades and content
Perceived loss of, or negative progression as it relates to Scaling
Progression and rewards in all content as it relates to perceived "nerfs" and reward gating
Feedback Goal
Discuss Rewards and Progression from an endgame perspective and also touch on the negative impacts of scaling, nerfs and reward gating. Submit possible solutions for wider discussion.
Feedback Functionality
From an endgame perspective I can say that every time an item I worked or paid for is nerfed or the gains I have worked for months or even years for are invalidated it kills all sense of progression for me. What is the point of farming rp, ad, and items if all of the time, resources and effort is invalidated in the next MOD or patch? What is the point of grinding the latest dungeon for rewards that only make that one dungeon easier to run? If I can complete the dungeon / content without that gear or item what use are they? What is the point of grinding the new campaign if you are already MAXED out on boons?
Rewards and progression should go hand in hand. The problem with this game is that you are given the things you need to complete X content after you have already completed that very content several times. Instead you should be able to earn things in your current area to help you complete the next area. Progression. You should be able to build upon prior expenditures and knowledge. Progression.
I am not sure if I would feel the same way if I hadn't experienced the massive changes to the game that MOD 16 brought. Maybe someone who started playing in MOD 16 and has reached end game can respond to some of these points.
Perceived loss of, or negative progression as it relates to Scaling Scaling in its current incarnation in Neverwinter is the antithesis of progression. End game players spend hours / days balancing stats. This requires millions of AD, millions of refinement and millions of AD for marks and wards. It also requires millions of AD to be spent on companions, mounts, insignias and so on... You spend all of this time, effort, ingame wealth and often real money only to change zones and see those stats drop to below stat caps in lower level content. In past incarnations the Veteran player in lower zones was actually weaker than a new player with starting gear, or worse items, companions or gear bugged out and did not work properly.
The current solution is to make Veteran players like this scale to the stat cap of the lower level content they are in. Yep, still getting scaled down but now just not as far or harshly as before. I understand the need for scaling, but I argue for scaling "New" players up instead of scaling "Veteran" players down. There has to be a better solution that does not invalidate the hard work Veteran players have put into the game.
Progression and rewards in all content as it relates to perceived "nerfs" and reward gating Rewards for completing content should be directly related to how difficult the content was, what stats were needed to participate and how long it took to complete it.
If there is a grind involved the reward should be significant and reflect the effort involved. No more black pearls in endgame content chests. No more blue rewards in the highest tier content.
I understand that sometimes in MMORPGs it is necessary to "nerf" items that are not WAI. I also understand that there always needs to be a chase item or items that are better than what I already have. The problem for me is being stuck with nerfed or old items that are bound to my character that I can't sell, salvage or even turn into equivalent refinement. If these items were instead unbound, salvageable for equivalent AD or refinement then I would not feel cheated out of the sometimes millions of AD, refinement, effort and time these items represent to me. I honestly would not mind buying an unbind token so that I could sell or move items.
IF you sell me something for real money that item should retain its value. If it does not then I am not likely to spend real money for items again. (Looking at you Chultan tiger!)
If there are BIS rewards that are locked / gated behind difficult content like TOMM for example they should be unbound or bound on equip. This will allow for the players who put in the effort to test and practice on preview to profit from their hard work while also allowing for an alternate way for others to acquire the equipment.
As we can see in this CDP alone this is a heated subject, but I think that given time and market saturation that the prices for BIS weapons or gear will naturally regulate itself. If this is still a problem a MAX sale price could be implemented through metadata or some other method to control prices. This is only one solution, but IMO it is fair to those who put in the effort to farm the items and fair to those who can not for whatever reason be that time, ability or desire complete the content to get the items in question.
One final note on BIS reward gating, if the rewards are going to be BIS they should not be gated behind content that requires 10 players. This is a hurdle that automatically excludes a large percentage of the playerbase no matter how hard the content is. Smaller guilds and casual players have a difficult time even gathering this many players to train with once, much less spend the amount of time it takes to train and be successful if they are required to find 10 members for the group each time. I know from experience that even in a large guild and alliance like I am in that it is very difficult to find enough capable and willing participants. I am thankful that I have enough friends ingame to find groups for TOMM but I am part of the exception and not the rule.
Risks & Concerns
As I mentioned discussion of rewards gating is a heated topic. Discussion of Scaling may require its own CDP. Bind status of any reward could have a negative effect on the Auction House. The rich will become richer. IMO people who put in the effort should be rewarded for their effort. Veterans of the game are always going to be richer and able to enjoy more content.(Just like in real life. YAY OLD PEOPLE!!)
18
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Feedback Overview
Rewards lifespan and devaluation of effort.
Many rewards take too long to get, or replaced too quickly, making the effort in obtaining them worthless. A situation where many players prefer to skip chase items, and with them entire mods just out of fear of "next mod new thing"
This also applies to lockbox uncertainty, and class balance issue - for example, I want to by a t-rex for the 10% debuff, but for the fear of it being replaced right after I buy it, I'll rather do a dragon imitation and sit on a pile of AD.
Feedback Goal
Minimize the above.
Feedback Functionality
First on the effort side. Reward effort needs to be capped. RNG is 'nice', if not alternative method exists, a pitty currency should exist. To assure that the effort put in some items will not have extreme outliers.
On the replacement side:
Certainty - If I know that in the next X months no new armor set will be released and the next release will focus on weapons and artifacts, I will aim to get the current best one even if it takes more effort. If I do know that next X months there will be a replacement, then I can judge if it worth for me to work for the current, but once the decision is mine and I know the expectation, I am less likely to be disappointed by a new release. Earlier releases (And M17) had staggered gear release, one mod weapons, another artifact gear and so on - That was one main reason to do ToMM as it was assured that no replacement weapon will be released in M18 - and as far from some uber super guild some only got it a couple weeks ago - A replacement now would have put half year of effort down the drain.
Refund / upgrade - If there is an intention to create items with short life cycle but significant effort (aka release new armor set each mod that takes a full mod to get) then an upgrade path or refund is needed to normalize cost/value. Can be done via crafting, NPC trade for something - It doesn't have to become the new best item. As long as the result still has some use, the effort that was put into it is not erased. An example can be trading old high end armor for some powerful crafting supplement (assuming crafting has value).
BTA/BTC: Nothing should be BTC in mho, it should all be BTA
Collections have no meaning currently
Give 3 load-outs
No more bait and switch
Make RP account-wide
Balancing of keys for Reward Chests
Feedback Functionality
If you do not want things to flood the market, then just keep it BTA. There are so many items that we need to try out on different toons to see which fits best and with changes constantly within the game and stat changes along with gear changes rings, sets, etc. need to be interchangeable. I have many things right now that I cannot use because I used on one toon and now, I cannot use but could on another toon. I refuse to re-buy that item or have to re-farm it, when I have already done so once. Not going to lie we grind at times for vanity items and if it was BTA that would be awesome as well
Total collection score seems to be for nothing. There are a lot of collectors out that could benefit from a collector reward or title. Discussing with others and it was mentioned a special companion or mount that is BTC only.
It would also be beneficial to have 3 loadouts given to us at this time, we know that there are many set-ups that we have i.e.: DPS, Heals, PVP or AOE, Single Target and so on. If more is needed, then we can buy those ourselves as I have done.
Grinding for rewards that are a bait and switch imo like watcher and TOMM are fun and challenging, BUT to have drops that do not even fit anyone’s current toons.
If you insist on so much RP make it so we can share it within the bank just like all the other main currency-AD, Trade bars, Gold etc.
We have so many dungeons and yet the number of keys that we can get does not match. If you wanted to spend the day running dungeons or the same one over and over, you wouldn’t be able to with some. Example the Underdark and the Greater Demonic Key we can only get one every 20 hours. Seems hard to do the several dungeons that require that key in one day if we wanted doesn’t it?
Feedback Goal
Hopeful that some of the items will be considered, because being able to run dungeons without the worry of being able to get rewards from chest, well that’s just fair play right. Same goes for the RP and having a share slot in bank for this.
Who doesn’t want to have items to be BTA vs the BTC especially with certain items that perhaps a higher-ranking toon can get for a lower one.
Fingers crossed that for future players more loadouts for their toons
Players generally see crafting of little relevance if they cannot create end-game equipment. As modules come out, equipment needs change and can easily outstrip the needs for crafting.
The content team feels preasure to update crafting recipes in an effort to keep crafting relevant and address player concerns.
Feedback Goal:
Make crafting relevant long term and reduce the need for constant updates to the crafting system.
The primary goal of crafting should be to Augment, Reinforce, Buff, and Debuff. Currently crafting can make armor reinforcement kits, jewelry reinforcement kits, and potions. However, their functionality and usefulness is a little limited. I would greatly expand the available options and make them the centerpiece of the crafting experience.
Equipment Augmentations retain their relevance despite mod changes, new gear, and stat increases. The team will have less need to address crafting recipes in the long-run, and will be able to update them as time allows.
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Feedback Functionality:
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Armor Reinforcement Kits:
Generally Kits provide a small stat increase on gear, but they could be far more useful. -
They could provide Equip Bonuses. You have a decent chest piece that does not have Butchers Might? There's an Armor Reinforcement Kit that can apply that bonus for you.
Bonuses cannot be applied to a piece that already has a bonus.
You'd have to control which bonuses are available, otherwise players would just add Swordsman's Perk to every piece of armor.
The general idea is to add more flexibility and more options, especially to lower-level items that don't currently have a gear bonus.
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They could provide % Damage or % Defense. We had some in Tyranny of Dragons that applied buffs against dragons. Dragons aren't that common though, so their not really used. I think we could have % verse Undead, or % verse Demons & Devils for Avernus and future mods.
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Other Character Attributes We have kits for Stamina Regen, but you could also add kits for Run Speed, Control Resist, etc.
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Overall an expansion on what already exists. You can increase your stats, or add extra buffs. Players have to make more decisions. You can only have one buff per gear piece - do you add Butcher's Might, do you add more power, do you increase your run speed?
I would also suggest that Armor Kits be spread across Crafting Professions. For example:
Armorers make armor reinforcement kits for Barbs, Fighters, and Paladins.
Tailors make armor reinforcement kits for Wizards and Warlocks.
Leather Workers make armor reinforcement kits for Rogues and Rangers.
Blacksmiths can make reinforcement kits for metal weapons.
Artificers make reinforcement kits for bows, warlock/wizard weapons, etc.
Jewelcrafters make jewelry reinforcement kits.
So if you're starting the game as a Ranger, you might actually want to level up the professions that will apply usable reinforcement kits for your class.
Risks & Concerns: Again, if you're adding equipment bonuses you'd want to select them carefully. Any % damage bonus will get used before all others. Generally I think the gear bonuses could use a rework, but that's a whole nother exhaustive topic.
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Overload Enchantments:
We can get overloads from dungeon drops, guilds, etc. But maybe add Overloads to the crafting trees and add a larger variety of buffs,etc.
Again, I think Overloads should be spread across professions so they're not just clustered in Jewelcrafting. Maybe Blacksmiths make offensive overloads, Armorers make defensive overloads, and Tailors make magical buffs. etc.
Risks & Concerns: None. Overloads already have a limited-time effect. I see no down-sides. Generally, I would like to see overloads added earlier in the game, both when characters are using them and when they become craftable. Right now they're available if you know where to look, but they're not integral to the early-game experience.
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Potions:
Just a general expansion of potions and various effects they can have. Not just stat increases, but also % damage to and defense from certain mob types. Maybe some potions have a positive as well as a negative effect.
Potions to Splash-buff Allies I'm thinking the Summer event what you have the water balloon fights, but in this case you have a throwable potion that will splash-buff teammates.
Grenades/Bombs Some debuff-style throwable potions/devices. Generally these items should be debuffs against mob stats. We might already have these in Mastercrafting (which I don't have). If so, I think they should exist at lower levels as well.
Things like bombs would use several crafting skills. Blacksmithing to make a bomb case, Tailoring to make the wicks, Alchemy to make the explosive fluid, and Artificing to assemble it all together.
Risks & Concerns: Debufs should be non-stackable so a group in a trial won't just debuff a boss into oblivion. Perhaps one form of bomb reduces defense, another reduces awareness, they can both be active at the same time but no single debuff stacks multiple times.
Allied buffs would also be non-stackable. One person can apply it, but 10 people applying it does nothing or has greatly reduced affect.
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Energizeing Your Enchantments:
Basically a reinforcement kit for your enchantments. You craft a kit and instead of reinforcing a gear piece, you're buffing your enchantment to make it more effective.
Reinforcements can only be applied to enchantments that are socketed into gear.
If you remove an enchantment from a gear piece, it loses it's energy and buff. The reinforcement is gone.
If you move that enchantment to a new gear piece, you need to apply a new reinforcement kit.
Risks & Concerns: You'd have to balance the enchantment buffs against the overall buff to a character. Maybe these are not % changes but just small stat bonuses. Individually they are small, but energizing all your enchantments on a character will make a difference.
Players that move enchantments around often will need to reapply kits every time. I think we can offset this by making kits reasonably easy to craft. So a player might have an entire stack of the 'energizing' kits and use them each time they move enchantments between toons.
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General:
Right now you can't craft kits until you're level 60 jewelcrafting, which means players will be near level 80 before kits really become an option.
I would create recipes so players have lower-level kits available earlier in their progression. You really should be enhancing your gear on a continual basis as you level up, and you should have a larger range of decisions on what buffs you want to use.
This is an easy way to add more player choice. It will add more layers on how players think about their gear. Do I take the armor with good stats, but with a useless Equip bonus for my class? Or, do I take a gear piece with less stats, but I can apply an Equip bonus I want using a reinforcement kit? Or, maybe I just want more run speed, and there's a kit I can make that will do that.
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Conclusion:
Crafting should be the place where you're making enhancements to your gear and character, thus it's always viable.
Once Augment-style recipes are in place, they never go out of use. It doesn't matter what gear is important at the time. Crafting will remain valuable, and players will have more flexibility when selecting and upgrading gear.
Potion-style slot mechanics could use a lot more variability in both bonuses and design. Crafting can be the centerpiece.
The content team doesn't need to create new gear recipes every mod. Content stays relevant far longer.
Overall, I think the crafting system is where you have an opportunity to add more flexabilty to the game without recreating massive amounts of content.
Edit: Another thing regarding Professions: A lot of players have mentioned storage and transfer of items.
Items in the Fashion Palette have an option to 'Move to Inventory', which means they move to the regular inventory space. Fashion items can also be transfered back to the fashion palette.
You could implement the same functionality for professions items and tools. Items that you move to regular inventory can then be transferred to other toons via the shared bank.
Something I would like to see is a system to customise, or enhance gear we already have.
We already have modifications Via crafting, but this is pretty limited and has been neglected for well over a year. The best options we have are still the pre mod 16 options like +power or + health etc.
How about the ability to remove the equip bonus from one item, and transfer it on to a different item. You could have a system similar to the appearance system, where you destroy the item, but instead of retaining its appearance, you retain the equip bonus instead, which you can then use on a new item.
Instead of a library of these bonus's it could be a one time thing, so each time you wanted to transfer an equip bonus, you would need to collect a new item to destroy.
This could be added to the crafting system too, meaning you would need a certain item that has to be created, as a one time use, which would retain the equip bonus, and be consumed when you apply it to a different piece of gear.
There would obviously need to be some limitations set in place, such as artefact bonus's can only be applied to artefacts, also some clarification on which bonus's can stack and which cannot. as far as i know, the only bonus that currently stacks is the sniper and swordsman perk, which is limited to x2, but it would be good to have some sort of indication as to if a bonus can stack, or if it is unique. Something as strong as the ebony chest bonus, could be unique, and only applicable to one piece, but anything that is say. +3% at will damage, or +3% encounter damage could be applied to multiple items.
I think something like this would not only help with bulding a gear set more interesting, but also keep older items with decent bonus's relevant still, and hopefully avoid the issues brought about with items like the demon lord set.
I'll cover 2 topics in brief that I care about. Again my brief history with NW – I started playing back in 2013 when the game was released. Got to lvl 60 (cap at the time) then left the game, only returning at the end of Mod 15.
Feedback Overview Progress, story, and rewards from lvl 1 to 80 need to make more sense.
Feedback Goal From my experience leveling in NW can be way too fast and rewards that are zone/area appropriate are useless by the time you recieve them. The other part of this problem is that you lose the story line when you zip up in levels as you end up with too many options of where to go next with no guidance on what makes the most sense. The goal then would be to slow this rocket ship down, let players who want to enjoy the story enjoy it without needing to resort to the wiki or other outside source to figure out where to go next, and obtain rewards that are meaningful and useful.
Feedback Functionality Overall slow the amount of xp earned to allow players to have a more complete experience in each section of the game. If a player does want to move faster they are welcome to utilize the xp boosts or utilize the xp enhancing guild boons. Also give players the option of purchasing a item that can halt xp gain from the Zen store and/or AD store for when festivals are around or when there are xp boost events. Create a more linear progression of questing areas. When I returned to the game as a level 60 toon, I spoke to Knox and had an overwhelming amount of content offered at that time. I still have no real idea what exactly happened in what order to Makos... and I genuinely enjoy story lines. Another possibility is have Knox only hand out quests for zones based on what zone you just completed, instead of based on level; although this could anger folks though who just want to zip through content to get to end-game. Ensure that the rewards for each zone make sense. Not only armor and weapons, but enchants and the items needed to upgrade them should be included. Allow us to improve steadily as we progress.
Risks & Concerns Not every one will want to take the slow path. That is why those folks should be able to get/use xp boosts of various kinds. Will take reworking of xp rewards for the zones and a lot of work in streamlining the various zones to ensure that the story line is not lost for those who want to follow it.
Feedback Overview Progress and reward after 80 (or whatever the end game cap is at any time)
Feedback Goal All end-game content should have valuable rewards.
Feedback Functionality At this time, the most valuable reward you get from running almost all of the RTQ and REDQ options is RaD (sometimes unique armor skins too for those who like cosmetics). There are some exceptions such as in CoDG where you can get quality refining items. What I would like to see as a player is more value to the rewards. I don't care if it's Temple of the Spider epic, if I am running it as a level 80 who meets the current REDQ requirements I want the rewards to be suitable. Have better loot tables available for REDQ and RTQ. Higher quality refining stones. More chances to get higher level enchanting stones and marks of potency. Add preservation and coalescent wards. Keep unique armor and weapon skins, along with random mounts/companions in the loot tables. Above all, have these items be unbound. That allows the player to decide if they want to keep/use the items, sell on the market for AD, or gift to guild/alliance mates.
Risks & Concerns You will never keep every one happy, but giving us rewards with value will keep most of us happy.
7
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Lots of good suggestions in the thread & a passionate maths debate.
My comments are:
1. Scaling Takes away from the feeling of progression, and is not making things challenging, just boring. Particularly when you get scaled down and the rewards are terrible. When you make it through the scorpions in Lair of Lostmauth and the final one drops a peridot, it is massively underwhelming. If we are going to get scaled down, the rewards should get scaled up. If the rewards are going to stay the same as what they were 3 years ago, the content shouldn't be scaled. Any Scaled content should have current rewards, this could be combined with multiple difficulty levels of dungeons discussed in previous discussions.
2. Progression
Progression from 0-80 just flies by, it takes a day or so. Then all the <80 level dungeons are obsolete. I'd rather see just one or two sub 80 dungeons and the rest brought up to level 80. Bring back the old dungeons as level 80 content.
After 80 it is a massive grind, but I understand that NWO needs to make some $$ and there needs to be some incentive to pay $$ left in the game, so I'm OK with that.
Would be nice to see some smaller content added to each of the mods as Mod 18.1, Mod 18.2 etc. to help extend the relevance of the mods out a little bit longer.
3. Professions
At the moment they feel dead. Maybe add the "pity" weapon sets as MC recipes and let them be made and sold on the AH. Perhaps not the BiS set. If crafting is kept relevant, then crafting resources could be added as rewards in older content. The manticore mane is/was a drop in FBI - if that was still desirable, people would still be farming FBI.
Maybe add exalting weapons to mastercrafting / professions, although this would only work if they were unbound.
3. Chase items & grinding Vs reward
Lately some of the items that you needed to grind for haven't seemed worth it. The ruined apprentice set in undermountain is one example and the watcher set another. The effort to benefit ratio didn't seem high enough to make it worth it. the apprentice set was just bad and the RNG associated with the watcher set discouraged a lot of people off it. I think it is a shame if you spend time developing content and then a large portion of the player base don't even bother with it.
So gear with massive grinds - should be BiS or close to it (effort to reward ratio) Don't add multiple layers of RNG to chase items please
Overview: Add additional value to current CDP submissions
Goal: Increase the value of Neverwinter as an IP and make it a more fun and engaging game to play.
Professions and Master Crafting :
Primary focus: Develop a system that is not built on profiteering and AD sinks. That allows everyone to participate as much or as little as they wish to. That allows for items, ingredients and recipes to be accessible to all that choose to explore and discover these as opposed to purchasing them. This system must balance rarity with a sense of accomplishment upon achievement. Experience should also play a role in this system, meaning that RNG plays a factor, but with experience and success it RNG becomes less of a factor.
Mass production should not play a role in Professions or MW, alt armies need not apply. There should be a larger capacity for Professions box with the understanding that the box, tools, and employees will be account wide. Adding items to the mix like what @thefabricant and @lordaeolos have suggested with relation to gear etc.
Boons:
Primary Focus: Boons should be rewarding and offer significance given the time invested in completing content to achieve them. Also they should also offer some additional reward tied to actually playing the game versus outright purchasing them.
Boons should come in the form of percentage increase of damage/healing/defense against enemies in a campaign. The first level of this boon should be rewarded upon completion or purchase of the campaign. For example, upon completion or purchase of Sharandar you receive a 5% increase to damage/healing/defense in all Sharandar related content. The second level would be tied to achievements, meaning after killing so many of a particular type of enemy you now gain 5% damage against them in any area. So to continue the example, facing Trolls in Sharandar or say Malabog's Castle you would have 10% damage against them if you had completed both levels of the Sharandar boon, but if you faced the same Troll SpellPlague you would only have a 5% advantage against.
Character Loudout:
Primary Focus: Simplify the areas which contribute to a characters build and add more value
Currently we have 4 tabs which contribute to our characters stats, Main, Boons, Mounts, Companions. @lordaeolos and I discussed his earlier solution, however with my suggestion on changes to boons a suggestion to split it 4 ways instead of 5 might work.
Leveling
Primary Focus: Creating a unique story for each character as they learn about how to play their class, and the game through gameplay questing and tutorials.
I really like some of @lordaeolos suggestions as well as @backpetal, the added tutorials by an NPC is a great idea, I would go one step further and at the completion of certain milestones in their characters development they should be given green BoA companions so that by the time they reach level 80 they have the correct amount of companions to fill the slots in the character sheet. These could even be given through a quest in a zone, a rescue mission for example.
Risks and Concerns:
-Guild boons were not addressed at all, they are flat stats and will become very outdated soon, and could be a complicated issue when reordering character loadout. However they could be done in the same way as I have proposed increasing damage inside SH, and the enemies would count towards the Kill Achievements bonus.
An easier to read statistics bar, with red to indicate under capped; gold/over capped; green/optimal zone.
A posted que group list with player names, so you don't waste time in que for a dungeon flies wouldn't touch.
Add slots to armor, yes new slots, starting with 3-4, instead of a boon add a slot. Next mod add more if you like or intro a new one with more. Add customizable variety to cookie cutter builds, maybe not eliminating the BIS but giving options.
Charge (nominally) to obtain colored name letters, all or one at a time, so everyone knows "Weenieboy" or "Pinkeye" are in the HOUSE!
When I do invokes for example, I teleport to PE on a toon, then go to the next guy, same map same instance, and the map reloads; why? Can't I just pop in the next toon without the reload? Nothing else changed there? How about a toon drop down menu to select next invoker? It would certainly reduce server strain. We switch loadouts, mounts, pets, all without map switching. Anyways, map load times are always miserable, can they be faster?
I want a build no one else has, or at least one that looks that way.
Risks and Concerns
Posting que lists of players may cause others to opt out because those waiting are under geared, and basically a "carry". Perhaps not showing stats of waiting players, just their readiness is enough. Also, this Whiteside person, are you sure that's not George Clooney in disguise? a guy that buffed seems overqualified for a mere Twitch stream.#Prettyboy.
First of all, so you know where I’m coming from : I’m a ‘new’ player, with 6 months under my belt and am currently at VIP Rank 9. As player-type, I tend to get into a game with the content-player mindset, but find myself often reaching towards the end-game, BiS goals.
(snip snip for space) (*) How do you keep people spending AD ? Through the AH, lots of my proposals up will increase AH usage and fees will follow, also the collection fee is an AD sink, besides that… you still have a lot of current AD sinks that let you bypass grinds (tokens of patronage, companion upgrades, etc…) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is easy to think ‘material gain/power gain’ when the word ‘reward’ is uttered, but I think it is much broader than that… That’s why I think you need to take into account the different kinds of players that populate Neverwinter or any MMO for that matter and the reasons they actually (enjoy) play(ing) the game. (These are just the ones I can think of, there may be many more I’m not aware of… also it is most likely that a lot of players fall into different, if not all of these categories, but that does not invalidate the thoughtprocess.)
The top-end player a.k.a BiS-player : These players strive to be the best of the best and will stop at nothing to get even the slightest edge for their character. Rewards needed : Very hard challenges (like ToMM) and bragging rights to show off besting these challenges. How ? Tiered content with Tiered reward structure (BiS items) and Cosmetic rewards (Titles, transmute items, unique skins on mounts/companions, …). Their grinds are besting the hardest content and getting the loot associated with it. (ToMM seems to be a very successful implementation of this, hats off ! I'm just going on hearsay though, I've never actually been there.)
The content player a.k.a ‘I’m the hero of my own story’-player : These players care less about the actual material rewards. (There is always some importance of course, but they are not in the race for BiS.) Instead the want to experience a story and be made part of it. Rewards needed : A good story throughout the leveling/questing. And at max-level, story driven dungeons. Content-wise there is so much good stuff in Neverwinter… but the lack of streamlining destroys the immersion (outleveling zones, campaigns and their stories run out of order, …) How ? Streamline the leveling experience story-wise. (Some players want to rush to level 80 (alts) that’s fine… but there should be an option to experience the story at is was meant to be experienced (turn of xp boosts, …).) Also, let them experience ALL the content. Yes, let them see ToMM… As some have suggested, make an entry level story mode for all content, without the phat loot, without some of the hard mechanics and that makes sense story-wise. (Don’t let them solo Halaster Blackcloak with a rusty dagger and come out on top, but have NPC’s assist them.. Makos, Celeste, Minsc/Boo.. as you do in the campaigns sometimes.. they are part of an army..)
The crafter/auctioneer player a.k.a ‘economy’-player : I know these are not exactly one and the same type of players, but both don’t really care about any of your ‘content’… any more than trying to find the angle to make a profit out of it 😊 Rewards needed : Unique items, looks, … Something in-demand, that they can corner the market with. (But that doesn’t give them the ability to keep players hostage when it comes to experiencing content..) How ? Besides all the possibilities for appearance changes and buff items (potions, …), there could be an addition of specialized gear to run specific challenges (e.g. +5% dmg in Tier x dungeons, …) I’ve also always liked the idea of crafters having to work together, instead of being mastercrafters in everything themselves. (Same as other players don’t solo dungeons, but need to rely on others too.)
The social player a.k.a ‘I want to be part of’-player : To be fair, there is probably not a single player that falls squarely into this category alone… 😊 But it is an important part of an MMO. (Or we would all be playing plain RPG’s.) Rewards needed : Ways to be part of and fuction in a community. (Guilds, Alliances, Strongholds, Random Queues…) How ? There is a big opportunity here still in the entire Stronghold setup ! These players could be the ones working to get on a Stronghold/guild/alliance leaderboard…
The collector a.k.a the ‘hamster’-player : The player that wants every title, all full collections-tabs, every companion, every mount… Rewards needed : I don’t think we need to worry here… There is plenty to collect :P How ? Make items from the collection reclaimable from there ? (To avoid duplicating items across alts, you could make it similar to the appearance library as there could be a convert to reclaimable collection…) Collection stuff is neigh impossible if you want to keep the items now, as the inventory space to do so would be enormous. This could even be a (small) AD sink, you pay ONCE to convert the item, but gain the luxury of being able to claim it back later. (Some conversions should be free, like for story rewards… I know I have by accident discarded some of the artifact weapons from story and would like to reclaim them, but can’t… ) Oh and on this subject : Gear appearance changes should not require AD !!! You have already put in the time to get the gear, you destroyed it to have the appearance.. and then you have to pay if you want to wear it, change it ? Talk about greedy !
So this basically boils down to different paths/rewards for different types of players. This then also makes sense with the tiered dungeon/rewards approach. (Each dungeon comes in several difficulty levels…) I also very much like the idea of tokens/currency, but then simplified as already proposed by some before me. (1 type for the latest content and another for all the older content). As in the VIP-proposal, this offers versatility to the player and can be a bridge between categories, e.g. from content-player to BiS-player. (This store would be purely for gear… BoA. A bit as it is now, but then all in one single store with just two token categories. As already mentioned this could do away with all the zone specific currencies as well… I had two friends quit the game after a few levels because they got lost in all the currency/quests/zones…) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Closing remark : The problem with Neverwinter though is that a lot of your character power does not come from your gear, but is sprinkled over : Enchantments on your gear : ranks up to 15 Companions : Stats, skills, companion gear, bonding runestones, other runestones in the companion gear, all with ranks up to 15, companion rarity (up to legendary) Boons : I’m fine with the principle of it – Grinding for content (I don’t agree with supplementing the grind with those extra book drops, some of which have the lowest drop rate ever… *cough* Dwarven Spelunking *cough*… ) But for the love of god, make the grind more fun please… tie it in to something else… some of them like SKT sucks the soul out of you as a new player. Mounts : mount power, rarity (up to legendary), insignia’s (up to legendary) And with the exception of boons, almost everything exclusively translates to ‘grind for AD’ and/or ‘Buy Zen’. There are no alternative paths to take…
And this system is not very transparent to a new player. I would like to see an easily obtainable ‘base’ power, that incorporates all of the above and is attained and explained throughout your levelling experience. The rest (top percentages) are then subject to the grind. (The fact that a player knows to use an augment or not, should not have been left up to veterans/guildies to explain…) (And yes, I still feel the effect of an augment, and as a result your bonding runestones, and companion gear/runestones is way too powerful. And counterintuitive to ‘you’ being the hero in this story.. and not your bulette pup, polar bear cub or deepcrow hatchling.) I’ve only been playing 6 months myself, and truly, without veterans taking me by the hand and explaining all these places to look… I’d still be lost. And tbh I still am sometimes, just so much complexity in the system.
I missed this post the first time thru. there are definitely combinations of these as well and another type too. the crafter. I know people who do (did, not sure if they are still playing anymore) almost nothing but crafting in this game. it was their gig. we're touching this in the dig down so I won't elaborate more but good post! combinations of these things together in rewards would definitely be nice though.
Feedback Overview Analysis of vertical character progression and its effects on an MMORPG like Neverwinter. Look at the alternative (horizontal progression / alternative advancement) and the reasons for rethinking their current balance in Neverwinter.
Feedback Goal Re-evaluate and redesign the nature of character improvement (vertical vs. horizontal progression). Currently implemented design is counter-productive and in fact the root cause of long-term problems.
Feedback Functionality Vertical character progression has its roots in pen-and-paper RPG games. The idea that characters both grow stronger and acquire higher quality gear certainly appeals to the players on their Hero’s Journey through the game world. Single player computer RPGs copied it verbatim into their design and from there, it spread to multiplayer RPGs. However, I’m making the argument that this is actually not a good fit for MMORPGs.
The first problem stems from the very nature of MMOs. Most of the content in the game needs to be playable by as many players as possible (creating content that only a small fraction of players can experience is a waste of development resources). More crucially, it needs to be playable by differently geared characters at the same time. This means that any piece of challenging content inevitably has a “Goldilocks zone” associated with it - while there’s a range of “just right” geared characters who find the content enjoyably challenging, undergeared characters will be overwhelmed, while overgeared characters will quickly become bored. The very nature of vertical progression means that the “Goldilocks zone” cannot fit all (or even most of) players who could be interested (if zone covered all players, vertical progression wouldn’t be relevant).
The second problem with vertical progression is the “rush to endgame” thinking it creates. As the game gets updated, new content is invariably released with endgame players in mind. This new content (which logically has the most desirable rewards, i.e. highest quality gear) becomes the anchor point for evaluating all other content in game through the “reward to time spent” ratio. Everything else except for the BiS (best in slot) gear and max level characters comes to be viewed as inferior, just part of the “grind” or stepping stones on the path to the “real game”. Most players (be they newbies or veterans) want to spend as little time and effort as possible dealing with that kind of content.
Notice that the “Goldilocks zone” issue becomes worse when dealing with endgame content. While characters are leveling up, “Goldilocks zone” is actually helpful in directing the gameplay across the different areas in the game - you’re motivated to go visit new areas as you outlevel current area, while gatekeeping you from entering areas you’re not yet ready to handle. In contrast, newly max level characters expect to now be ready for all challenges (that’s the whole point of their journey after all). As newer and newer releases bring better and better gear into the game, the vertical spread between entry-level and BiS widens more and more, making the “Goldilocks zone” of any content relatively narrower and narrower. This puts even more pressure on players to rush to the endgame. And, as more and more players reach (near) BiS, the apparent demand for new endgame content becomes more and more intense - a self-feeding negative cycle that directly threatens the longevity of the game.
The solution, then, would be some kind of balance between vertical and horizontal progression (also called Alternative Advancement). In the beginning of a new player’s journey, progression could be 100% vertical - as we’ve seen above, it’s actually helpful. Having less choices to make keeps down confusion / choice paralysis. Having only a limited (but robust) core set of powers available facilitates learning to play process. Then, as players reach highest levels, vertical progress should mostly taper out, to be replaced by horizontal progress - more choices of character powers, feat points and paragon paths for playstyle customization, conditionally helpful perks, tricks, and special abilities, etc. When graphed out, the curve of vertical progression should be logarithmic.
Looking at the competition, ESO (Elder Scrolls Online) appears to do exactly that. Neverwinter currently does the opposite - there’s a fair amount of horizontal progression involved while leveling up (choice of paragon path at level 30, unlocking of additional combat power choices and feats), but that tapers out once characters reach max level and gets replaced by more vertical progression (boons). The curve is exponential instead of logarithmic. It is designed the wrong way around.
Risks & Concerns Horizontal progression options (that would replace vertical progression) need to be meaningful and worthwhile for this to work. This is far more challenging than just throwing incremental stat values on new gear with each new content release.
As always, I firstly appology for by bad english, some parts in my comments where edited due google translate.
Now this may not fit current CDP topic, but I want to bring it anyways due that it's realated to progresion. That's mean campaing boons and etc.
The whole thing is to decide do we want neverwinter be action based combat or not.
IN old old days( pre mod 6). To complete dungeon needed: 70% team work and players skills. That's mean, players combat experience when use certain powers, how combine with other group members powers so it would increase over all groups performance. And also knowledge about dungeon mechanics.
Then rest 30% where about gear and buffs.
More less, group where challenged as players.
Mod after mod and game changed. Now we have game which challenging players gear/build but not players.
That's mean, enough to get items/gear and you are top end player..
Gear influence players combat like 90%, while experience and knowledge of dungeon mechanics make like ~10% .
With mod 16 release and introduction of dungeon lair of the mad mage showed up current philosophy of dungeon/content desing. Which is same as prior mod 16, challenging players gear but not players.
Second boss in LoMM, Second Boss Fight – “BoreWorm”, when you reduce his HP to certain amount, then you reach so called Heal check point. All you need is stand still and eat incoming hits, while healer restore Hp.
Finall boss in LoMM Trobriand, when you take down 2/3 of his HP. He get in center of platform and start charging. You and party destroy towers which charging him(boss). Then whole party gather and stand near healer, which grant buffs(if have) to reduce incoming dmg from boss AoE attack.
This part you can call HP check point.
Even if you wipe towers which charged boss very fast, and you have full HP. Due not having certain ammount of HP< woul lead to your death.
Then there is Tower of Mad mage, so called phase 2 and phase 4, Dps check points. Which actually you can simply call > keyboard hammering check point. You stand still, and keep repeating power rotations and dropping artefact/mounts powers.
Now tell me, in which part is so called action based combat?
IF we going for action based combat, then need to make dungeons so it would challenge group as players.
Valindra tower, as example challenge players. When she summon spectres, players must run away from them, on top valindra use AoE attacks. So that require party members move around in order to survive<.
To make more action focused gameplay, gear and boons and etc influence in combat must be adjusted so it's influence would not go more than 65%.
IF we plan go with current path(gear focused combat). Then sure,, there are options to expand on it, but then we have to drop/adust some of action combat elements...
So it's time for community and staff to decide where this game go.. Cuz you can't make game both, focused on gear and on players in same time..
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Feedback Overview Meaningful player to player interaction is arguably the most potent retention tool available for an MMO. Neverwinter should implement a reward system for mentor-mentee pair-ups when playing through challenging game content (both open world questing and queued content).
Feedback Goal Replace some of the existing rewards (specifically the daily random queue AD rewards) with a new reward structure that incentivises meaningful social interaction between a veteran player (mentor) and a newer player (mentee).
Feedback Functionality Player to player interaction is naturally a part of every MMO. In Neverwinter, we currently have guilds/alliances, zone/custom chat, and multiplayer content (open world parties, queued instances) as the primary channels/drivers for interaction.
I propose a system to explicitly track and reward a specific type of two-player interaction while completing any challenging content in game - one between the mentor (teacher) and the mentee (student).
Just imagine - what if a new player, fresh out of character creation, would be met on the beach by an experienced player? One who is rewarded by built-in game mechanics for being a good mentor. What if that mentor-mentee pairing was in effect throughout the game, offering rewards to both mentor and mentee for completing challenging content together?
It is not terribly difficult to imagine an automated system that keeps track of player expertise with a class and role, measured by completed content. For example, if you’ve successfully completed challenging content in a given difficulty range as a cleric healer a couple of times, it stands to reason that you would be able to advise a new cleric healer. On the other hand, a veteran cleric healer with tens or hundreds of completions probably has good advice for you to further improve your game, making her a good mentor for you in turn.
I’m currently envisioning 3 game features for mentoring: * A private, persistent mentoring chat channel. Entries should be annotated with timestamp and position (mentor/mentee) in addition to character’s name. * (Optional) in-game voice chat between mentor and mentee, instead of current party-wide voice chat. * Shadow copy of mentee’s action bar visible to mentor (in addition to his/her own action bar). This way, the mentor can see the powers selected by the mentee and also advise on the proper timing of actions.
Note that you wouldn't be required to actively play that character at the time you’re mentoring - you can play your rogue character while giving advice to cleric healer mentee.
This system would obviously need a list of spoken languages for each player (in order of preference for those of us who speak more than 1 language).
I expect that queued content needs to be changed somewhat to better match this new system. Instead of 5-man content, they should probably be balanced for 4 or 6 players (2 or 3 mentor-mentee pairs). This actually creates an opportunity for varying difficulty without changing the content - something balanced around 4 players would naturally be easier for 6 players and harder for 2 players.
Risks & Concerns There’s a subset of players who sometimes prefer not to engage with other players while playing the game (even though it’s an MMO). The new system should act as a carrot, not as a stick when it comes to those players - rewarding desired social behavior, but not outright prohibiting solo adventuring when one feels like it.
DM must say - look , these are the theme and characteristics of my campaign , we can work out a solution so you can enjoy the game but this is the frame- . -What is the frame in Neverwinter in 2020? If we consider the original setting and the game firsts quests, lore, atmosphere, difficulty- Neverwinter was tailored as a military campaign. In time, the grim, grindy, difficult gameplay was washed over. Plenty of concessions were made for pleasing some group or other, for some extra ZEN sells, or simply out of misjudging the implications. - If we stay true to the roots- the progression must be long, mainly vertical, the gameplay difficult, the random encounters deadly, the dungeons long, complex and hard, the rewards few and earned after victory. - There can be SIDE TABLES for crafting, army of alts, role playing in Moonstone Mask, currency brokers, AH traders, fashion contests, collectors of everything, zonechat propagandists and so much more. - So what is the frame for rewards and progression? We can have a pretty pony as reward for entering the dungeon and that fun musical animation when we click more than 2 keys in row. That can work too. . I close with a request - please bring back the original dungeons, trials and skirmishes. Plenty where removed , the others are butchered beyond recognition so they fit the medium time and difficulty in randoms. They might fit the medium now but they have no other value left in them. .
I don't think staying absolutely true to d and d has ever been a consideration of this game.
Feedback Overview It's been mentioned at least once before, and I wholeheartedly agree, the time to level needs to be increased to allow for a more in depth and immersive story-line and educational experience with regards to how the game works. I remember my first time playing the game was some of the most fun I had, until the story started to fall apart, and then it became this extremely long and arduous journey to rank up my enchantments and earn ad to buy really expensive stuff. The time, effort, and sometimes money needed to rank up enchantments needs to be reduced, in general this would reduce the time it takes for leveled players to reach end-game content.
Feedback Goal Increase time to level, and decrease time to reach end-game, while providing a more story centric gaming experience in open-world content. I believe open-world pve content should be more immersive, and players should be able to become emotionally invested in certain npcs, zones, and "goals". The short time to level, and long monotonous grind to end-game makes it difficult to become invested in the game except for those who are invested in progression for progression's sake alone. The one thing that got me to play the game, and be excited about it, was the first "prerendered 3d movie" where Valindra is besieging Neverwinter with her dracolich and Xuna kills the orc or whatever it was, that **** was ****ing EPIC man. I would like to see more of that in the story-lines as they progress in the open-world pve content. Scenes like this were awesome in games like FFVII/IX and Starcraft I when I was a kid, and I would keep playing all night just to get to the next one. It's scenes like this that can cause a tear to well up when a player is emotionally invested in a npc, or the story in general.
Feedback Functionality Sharp has a whole bunch of feedback on how boons can be improved in a way that I think would shorten the time it takes to get to end game in a good way, so I would suggest looking at that in regards to boons.
Specifically what I wanted to talk about was about enchantments, runestones, and weapon/armor enchantments. I think reducing the cost to upgrading these would go a long way in reducing the time it takes for players to reach end game, and leave room for them to become more invested in the game for other reasons. If this is something people and the developers agreed, with, to what extent the cost should be reduced and by how much the time/effort to get to end-game should be cut would require further discussion.
One way to reduce the time it would take to rank up enchants would be to add marks and enchanting stones to the loot tables of epic dungeons/trials, including rank 4, 5,6, and 7 marks. Another would be to increase the odds of ranking enchantments up, and maybe reducing the amount of reagents needed to rank up weapon/armor enchantments. It would also be nice to see companion upgrade tokens, and epic insignias in the loot tables, maybe in the boss drops like the rare one's do.
Risks & Concerns Reducing the cost to reach end-game would most likely upset players who are already there, as they had to either put in the year(s) of work to get there or irl $. However, I think it would be better for the game in the long term with regards to player retention if there wasn't a seemingly insurmountable wall of ranking up enchantments, insignias, and pets in front of them. I also think that this is only a problem, mostly because each new module mostly makes all previous content irrelevant, and makes it even harder for new players to progress their character to end game as all the loot they get is basically useless or the market is saturated with. If old content was made to be more relevant and worthwhile to run for the long term, almost indefinitely, then it wouldn't be so painful to be "stuck", but boredom could still be a problem.
Feedback Overview/Goal Allow players to create wishlists for the rewards they’d most like to receive. These items could then be added to the random loot table (with significantly increased odds) when determining rewards for the player where appropriate.
Feedback Functionality In pen and paper D&D, Game Masters tend to know their players rather well. They know which rewards would excite players the most. Ability to offer custom-tailored rewards is a powerful tool when used at appropriate moments - nobody wants to conclude an epic boss fight with disappointed players who are unhappy about their completely useless loot.
Similar benefits could be gained from implementing character-specific wishlists. For example, players could right-click items in Collections and choose “Add to wishlist”. The list does not need to be infinite - limiting it to 3 to 5 items seems reasonable.
Whenever random loot table is used to determine rewards for a character (for example a rewards chest at the end of a dungeon), items on the wishlist could be added to the loot table (with reasonably higher odds than other random items), assuming it is an appropriate place for receiving such an item. The odds can even be made increasing with each miss on the loot table, offering an easy mechanism for eliminating long bad luck streaks on earning those items.
Once received, the item would be automatically removed from the wishlist, though nothing prohibits the player from adding that item again if he/she wants to receive another copy in the future.
Risks & Concerns To preserve the intended rarity of tradeable high-value items, wishlist items should probably be delivered Bound to Account, even if they would be unbound otherwise.
While Collections pages already contain most of the items in game, some are notably absent or exceedingly difficult to find in there. Updating the categories and adding all the missing things (including enchantments, runestones, preservation/coalescent wards, special ingredients, masterwork profession materials, etc.) is probably quite a time-consuming task.
So, first, I will be cheating a little, because I quote you here, but I'll actually respond to your later post on janne's site, because it's probably more up-to-date, and only Part I. I also had to remove the content of the itemization, because the body of the message was 3600 characters too long for the forum to send out, but chunking parts out seemed pretty misleading. So for everyone else, read the original on page 1 of this topic. However, while your comment mentions HP and power left on the unique gears, the post on the site does not and that actually made more sense in the original comment. I like the idea of leaving some of the HP and power on the unique gear.
So, while your idea is more general and can be implemented a lot of ways, I just shortly cut into my preferred implementation to explore the topic:
Feedback Overview: Pushing non-HP/Power character stats from normal gear into companion items and making them only craftable. And also, redesigning companion gear slot unlocks with character progression.
Feedback Goal: Clearly defined separation of items, item tiers and making professions (especially Mastercraft) have a clearly defined and separated role.
Feedback Functionality: As written above, but also, the ways of gathering companion items are basically the most user-unfriendly RNG timesinks. Even before the WE's or the much needed Zok change, Illusionist's gambit was a whole mod of grind. Probably the best way to get comp items was the "Sword Coast Adventures" web gateway to the game, where you rolled the dices from your companions and heard a fun little story while doing so. Also, that part was botted pretty heavily and buggy as hell, but at least that was more interesting to interact with than the profession system as a whole. I would like to get minigames like that implemented into the professions or just into the game in general. But I'm off topic a little.
The point is, acquiring companion gear was really just to grind something for 4 month without much content added. No one really liked it, so just putting it into the professions as craftables is just the sensible choice unless the point is to be a timewaster.
However, while initially it would make a lot of sense, on it's own there is one more problem which is that stat sticks are things with only numerical values and thus only one of them is the best, but as time goes, the best items will get cheaper and cheaper and new items need to be introduced. This actually applies to unique items as well as the newer items should have better bonuses or at lest, more stats. But that's why I would keep (at least some) the Power on them, so the same effects can be reintroduced if needed especially if those effects are class-defining (like, Damage Reduction or outgoing healing). However, outgoing healing is kind of a stat AND an effect, but counting it as an effect would actually help to not artificially make difference in damage for classes by role-ing them but to make the different choices in gear.
That means that all old and lower tier content retroactively have to be redesigned with the easier accessibility of the higher tier items and newly introduced items, which either needs the whole game redone every 2 years or... locking out certain stat stick slots until a certain level of progression reached. This means that higher geared content does not actually need to be given higher stat items, but retroactively just adding an extra slot and opening for those who reached the conditions and requiring those conditions to do the new tier.
While this does not really save reworking the old stuff eventually as probably new and better stat sticks have to be added, it will make it significantly slower. As mod17, if you need to give the characters 40-50k extra stats, you just overstat new rings with +10k and the companion items with some more thousand. But if implemented, lock in an extra slot for a new companion gear slots and unlock for those who got X amount of trinket from ToMM. You make the content doable without the slots, but because the stat caps, the extra slot does not matter until Infernal Citadel.
Risks and Concerns: That would mean to redo the profession system to fit in for the stat sticks, which I act like is a concern, not something that I really would like to be done and objectively is still a concern as it will mean more resources and messing with priorities. But I think the profession system is still a soulless RNG pay-to-wait system that is technically a part of the game and, but people would never "play" the professions in this game, but engage with it and do the chores of it.
Also, it does not really makes sense with the current companion system, so it will need some rework too. And the UI will need to be redone for the new slots, but it can be foreseen and implemented in a way that could at least in the backend, handle infinite amount of slots.
Artifacts as stats will be significantly changed, but I think that should need a change too. The tales of old set or the old heart of the dragon sets were way more interesting for me.
The Gond Event can provide insignias of Gond in both uncommon (Green) and rare (Blue). The last time this event was run there were no Epic (Purple) Gond insignias which could in turn be refined to Legendary level. Updating the Gond insignias inline with the changes made to the other insignias would be good. Dropping them during the Gond event would keep Gond rewards desirable and relevant.
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
@oremonger#9999 Great work sums up alot of my feelings towards rewards and progression.
a couple things to add,
For me story progression has always been a good motivator it helps keeping me pushing forward because i want to find out what happens it's been the cause of many late nights because i just had to finish the next few pages of the book i'm hooked on, There are some good stories in Neverwinter but i'm struggling to recall anything that has given me that burning need to continue the story.
I think the stories could also benefit from some choice/consequences scenarios, as an example: oh you looted the chest of an NPC in a Hub zone, now during any combat the NPC randomly appears and attacks you until you pay back what was taken.
The story conclusions also feel underwhelming/ not epic, Yay i've defeated X,Y,Z boss and i've saved neverwinter again , No parade , no statue , no adoring fans naming offspring after my toon.
In terms of gear progression, the point i am at is Wards/ higher level enchanting stones are my roadblock where i have to build up AD to transfer to zen or wait for the Winter or Summer events
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So, first, I will be cheating a little, because I quote you here, but I'll actually respond to your later post on janne's site, because it's probably more up-to-date, and only Part I. I also had to remove the content of the itemization, because the body of the message was 3600 characters too long for the forum to send out, but chunking parts out seemed pretty misleading. So for everyone else, read the original on page 1 of this topic. However, while your comment mentions HP and power left on the unique gears, the post on the site does not and that actually made more sense in the original comment. I like the idea of leaving some of the HP and power on the unique gear.
So, while your idea is more general and can be implemented a lot of ways, I just shortly cut into my preferred implementation to explore the topic:
Feedback Overview: Pushing non-HP/Power character stats from normal gear into companion items and making them only craftable. And also, redesigning companion gear slot unlocks with character progression.
Feedback Goal: Clearly defined separation of items, item tiers and making professions (especially Mastercraft) have a clearly defined and separated role.
Feedback Functionality: As written above, but also, the ways of gathering companion items are basically the most user-unfriendly RNG timesinks. Even before the WE's or the much needed Zok change, Illusionist's gambit was a whole mod of grind. Probably the best way to get comp items was the "Sword Coast Adventures" web gateway to the game, where you rolled the dices from your companions and heard a fun little story while doing so. Also, that part was botted pretty heavily and buggy as hell, but at least that was more interesting to interact with than the profession system as a whole. I would like to get minigames like that implemented into the professions or just into the game in general. But I'm off topic a little.
The point is, acquiring companion gear was really just to grind something for 4 month without much content added. No one really liked it, so just putting it into the professions as craftables is just the sensible choice unless the point is to be a timewaster.
However, while initially it would make a lot of sense, on it's own there is one more problem which is that stat sticks are things with only numerical values and thus only one of them is the best, but as time goes, the best items will get cheaper and cheaper and new items need to be introduced. This actually applies to unique items as well as the newer items should have better bonuses or at lest, more stats. But that's why I would keep (at least some) the Power on them, so the same effects can be reintroduced if needed especially if those effects are class-defining (like, Damage Reduction or outgoing healing). However, outgoing healing is kind of a stat AND an effect, but counting it as an effect would actually help to not artificially make difference in damage for classes by role-ing them but to make the different choices in gear.
That means that all old and lower tier content retroactively have to be redesigned with the easier accessibility of the higher tier items and newly introduced items, which either needs the whole game redone every 2 years or... locking out certain stat stick slots until a certain level of progression reached. This means that higher geared content does not actually need to be given higher stat items, but retroactively just adding an extra slot and opening for those who reached the conditions and requiring those conditions to do the new tier.
While this does not really save reworking the old stuff eventually as probably new and better stat sticks have to be added, it will make it significantly slower. As mod17, if you need to give the characters 40-50k extra stats, you just overstat new rings with +10k and the companion items with some more thousand. But if implemented, lock in an extra slot for a new companion gear slots and unlock for those who got X amount of trinket from ToMM. You make the content doable without the slots, but because the stat caps, the extra slot does not matter until Infernal Citadel.
Risks and Concerns: That would mean to redo the profession system to fit in for the stat sticks, which I act like is a concern, not something that I really would like to be done and objectively is still a concern as it will mean more resources and messing with priorities. But I think the profession system is still a soulless RNG pay-to-wait system that is technically a part of the game and, but people would never "play" the professions in this game, but engage with it and do the chores of it.
Also, it does not really makes sense with the current companion system, so it will need some rework too. And the UI will need to be redone for the new slots, but it can be foreseen and implemented in a way that could at least in the backend, handle infinite amount of slots.
Artifacts as stats will be significantly changed, but I think that should need a change too. The tales of old set or the old heart of the dragon sets were way more interesting for me.
I would like to respond to this a bit. Firstly, it was implied (but not outright stated) that pet gear would also have power and hp on them, so sorry for not being more specific there.
Secondly, with regards to risks, there are actually people who enjoy playing the professions system, myself (and some other players) included which is why I wrote a couple of 1000 words about them. If I didn't care about them in some way, or feel that other players care about them as well, I wouldn't have written so much about them. There are actually people who "play" professions. But really, I think anyone who actually enjoys tinkering with professions would be fine with the developers trying to change the rewards so that they are actually desirable. It would be more about changing the rewards then changing the system (although I do have a section in there about redoing the system as well).
I want to come out and say that I will be sneaking in an accessibility post, but will tie it to rewards in the end (hey, at least I’m honest).
I really don’t understand why scaling and level progression is so hard of a topic in Neverwinter. To me it is very easy math, and post Mod 16, this game was supposed to be all about the math. Lets question a few items and then put it all together.
Level caps:
Why do you need to have level caps for so long? Why can’t every mod come out and increase the cap by 10 levels?
Progression:
Progression is broken. You outlevel areas before you get to them. It breaks the story, players don’t learn mechanics. Players are saying they want slower progression but Chris has stated multiple times that they want to consolidate the lower levels and make them quicker. These are competing ideas. What is progression exactly? It’s both level and content in this game but considered separate. Why can’t content be connected to levels?
“Game begins at Level 80”:
I hate this saying. No, the game begins at Level 0. (Current) Level 80 should be the end of game content, not the start. The goal is to get to level 80 as an accomplishment, not considered the end of the tutorial.
Putting it all Together:
So how can we put this all together? Also known as my Scaling/Content solution.
First, let’s make the numbers easy. I’m going to use nice even numbers. I’ll leave it up to the big brains to sort the real numbers out. These are just hypothetical numbers so don’t read into them.
Levels have meaning- Let’s say at the beginning of the game you start at level 0. By the end of Mod 18 you are level 100 (once again, made up numbers). When a new mod comes out, “cap” goes up by 10. So for Mod 19, it is Level 101-110 content.
Stats are tied to levels- Base stats are tied to levels. As you go up, so do your stats. Choosing where to allocate 2 ability points has to be eliminated (sorry, this may make people mad). It has to be this way for scaling to work correctly.
Boons are tied to content completion- Powers/Feats are tied to levels. Rework them, make them meaningful. This is where the player can create diverse builds. Create a better system, like Power/Feats unlock branches on the tree and Boons level up those branches.
Areas are tied to and restricted to levels- Intro levels 1-10, Blacklake 11-20, Next 21-30, ect. You must be the appropriate level AND completed the prior level to unlock. This assures people don’t skip areas and mess up the storyline and don’t learn mechanics.All areas have a “storyline” solo dungeon. This teaches mechanics. A person must have completed the storyline dungeon to unlock the random queue version. The solo dungeon can be run as often as the player wants.
Scaling brings a person’s BASE STATS down to the highest for the dungeon- Since the dungeon is the end of an area, a person’s BASE STATS should be scaled to the highest level of that area. For example, a level 75 person playing a level 40 dungeon has their BASE STATS reduced to level 40. Notice BASE STATS? This is to solve the main problem of what pissed people off the most about scaling, their hard work is wasted. Players feel punished when running lower content. Only scale BASE STATS, all other enhancements (enchantments, armor, insignias, companion powers, ect) carry over at full. This takes the edge off and doesn’t let a player be “God” but still lets them smash trash and feel powerful.
Rewards Solution:
See, I told you I’d be able to connect the two. Honestly, this was the missing link to making this all work. High level players feel that they don’t get rewarded for running lower level content and thus have no desire to. Random queues are a way to force players to do it and honestly, it’s a cheap move. Players should want to run content, not be forced to artificially.
I assume Cryptic has a target RAD/time ratio. If not… shame on you. Let’s use made up numbers of 10,000 RAD/hour. Meaning, an “average” player should be able to do most activities that earn RAD at the rate of 10,000 RAD for 1 hour work. Now we can use the thought of skirmish,“normal”, and “epic” dungeons to efficiently give rewards. If a skirmish is completed in about 15 minutes, it should reward 2,500 RAD. If a “normal” dungeon is completed in 30 minutes, it should reward 5,000 RAD. If “Epics” are targeted to take an hour, then 10,000 RAD. This concept can work with RP too. All Cryptic needs is a reward/time ratio.
Now the real question was always, how to make this work with both low level players and high level players. Low level players don’t need as much reward, high level players need more rewards as stuff like refining costs a heck of a bunch more. I propose a reward modifier per level. Something like every 10 levels, your reward modifier increases by 2%. So if a level 80 person is running a “normal” dungeon, they would get the base 5,000 RAD plus 800 RAD.
Once again, this can work for RP with the amount of bonus RP going right to the players RP pool. This way, jems can still be sold on the Auction House at their base level but the player gets to keep the bonus.
Sorry, I know it’s a lot of text, but this game has some work that needs to be done. To me, it almost needs to become Neverwinter 3.0 (others will have higher versions). Fixing it won’t be easy and I think that the players know that. There will be bumps and struggles, but if the players know what direction Cryptic is going (ie a roadmap) they will be more patient.
Thanks for reading and the other great discussions!
A thing that also needs to happen (based on what has happened with ToMM) is that the game should reward the veterans who help train people/players with hard content (current game state). 4k RAD isn't enough to encourage groups of experienced players to help new people learn mechanics so when they get their chase items or the profit dries up, they leave to go play other games until a new opportunity arises. New player bonus should maybe be improved rng rolls or like an extra scroll for their weapons.
A thing that also needs to happen (based on what has happened with ToMM) is that the game should reward the veterans who help train people/players with hard content (current game state). 4k RAD isn't enough to encourage groups of experienced players to help new people learn mechanics so when they get their chase items or the profit dries up, they leave to go play other games until a new opportunity arises. New player bonus should maybe be improved rng rolls or like an extra scroll for their weapons.
I might agree with the New Player Bonus in theory, but I'd like to see it changed so that you have to remain within XX distance of that new player for YY% of the run to get it. Maybe put a little floating icon above the new character's head to ID them, to make identifying them easier.
So fine, if you want to dash off and "help" the new player by removing each and every obstacle from his or her path before they even become aware of them, and then jump up and down impatiently at the boss gate, cool... but no bonus for you.
Happy Monday. I will be continuing to comment as necessary. Meanwhile if you all can move onto phase 2 then that would be great. Specifically it is time to drill into the areas and ideas you like, what you want to know more about, collaborate on, challenge (in a valuable way) and evolve.
At the moment we are interested to know more of your thoughts in regard to Horizontal progression, evolution of vertical progression, what variation of current types of rewards you would like to see? This will do for now and of course this is on top of what you all would like to drill into as well.
Looking forward to seeing the next phase of this CDP.
Progression. One thing I have seen made very clear is that while leveling up people are getting flooded with too many areas all at one time. They just cannot do it all in any logical way.Why don't they just remove the extra areas in the game that often end up skipped and bring them back as more worked out level 80 zones. Some have even had their dungeon and the like removed .They could then go back and add them into the new reworked area. And when ever they might decide to raise the cap again they could then pull some of the then Level 80 zones at this time out and return them as even higher zones moving forward. This would give end game people more things to do while stopping newer player from being over whelmed as to what areas they need to focus on first, going forward. Just my 2 copper.
Feedback Overview Players are scaled down, rewards are not scaled up. Feedback Goal If you strive to make every dungeon/skirmish to take roughly the same time via scaling, you should make the drop on roughly same level. That goes for both what is found in final chest, and how hard is to get the key to the final chest (I am talking especially about SKT SVA in this case). At the same time, the drop in zones - if you are scaled down, the dropped treasures and refining items should scale up. Feedback Functionality If you force the player to match map level, you should force the drop to match the player's unscaled level. The goal should not be "maintain the same level of effort", but "maintain the same reward/effort ratio". Risks & Concerns The biggest risk is that all the tuning might be wasted time - the real issue lies within the scaling system itself, so you would be treating symptoms instead of disease.
A little off-topic: I know that I might be a special case, but I avoid challenges that require to be "experienced with scrolls". I do not step into any new dungeon or trial till it is tuned down (or outgrown). Simply said, I am more casual - and, within the way the scaling system works, it might take another year (if ever!) to make me consider to move from the last pieces of 70lvl gear. The rewards from new zones have significantly negative effect on your performance in the scaled content. From the long-term perspective of your game, this is a terrible situation.
Hi Rikitaki,
Thanks for posting. Yes this is something we are currently looking into (Scaled Rewards). Would be a good topic to drill into.
In regards to RNG loot, I'm kinda for and against it; RNG loot is a big part of D&D, but I do feel the pain of not being lucky. So yeah, I would agree perhaps that chase items locked behind RNG should be unbound, that way you can always buy one from someone else who stole your rng karma, and saving those AD/tradeables for it is your way of progressing. I haven't thought too much about it.
Also, trading with the game for chase items might something, for example the Mysterious Merchant. You could implement a rare merchant that spawns in random locations throughout the game and who has a limited number of random chase items (bound or unbound I don't care) to sell to the world for a limited amount of time, kinda like the merchant in barovia that you get items for your undead hunter HAMSTER-pack .
I agree it would be cool to have a different way to earn a subset of all the categories of items including some chase items.
Some of the scariest things i felt as a new player were "what if i pick the wrong paragon? What if I pick the wrong feats!?? What if i pick the wrong boons!!??" There is tremendous stress to new players that could be avoided by simply letting people swap feats and boons at will without needing reroll tokens. I would also let new players start with 2 loadouts, one automatically assigned to each paragon. i would also allow all feats to be chosen immediately rather than having to wait until level 80, so that players can get a feel for what the class actually feels like to play it full time. Those early levels without feats don't give a good picture of what the class is truly like.
Comments
Feedback Overview
In this post I'll try to wrap up the last three points from my first post.Feedback Goal
Discuss Rewards and Progression from an endgame perspective and also touch on the negative impacts of scaling, nerfs and reward gating. Submit possible solutions for wider discussion.Feedback Functionality
From an endgame perspectiveI can say that every time an item I worked or paid for is nerfed or the gains I have worked for months or even years for are invalidated it kills all sense of progression for me. What is the point of farming rp, ad, and items if all of the time, resources and effort is invalidated in the next MOD or patch? What is the point of grinding the latest dungeon for rewards that only make that one dungeon easier to run? If I can complete the dungeon / content without that gear or item what use are they? What is the point of grinding the new campaign if you are already MAXED out on boons?
Rewards and progression should go hand in hand. The problem with this game is that you are given the things you need to complete X content after you have already completed that very content several times. Instead you should be able to earn things in your current area to help you complete the next area. Progression. You should be able to build upon prior expenditures and knowledge. Progression.
I am not sure if I would feel the same way if I hadn't experienced the massive changes to the game that MOD 16 brought. Maybe someone who started playing in MOD 16 and has reached end game can respond to some of these points.
Perceived loss of, or negative progression as it relates to Scaling
Scaling in its current incarnation in Neverwinter is the antithesis of progression. End game players spend hours / days balancing stats. This requires millions of AD, millions of refinement and millions of AD for marks and wards. It also requires millions of AD to be spent on companions, mounts, insignias and so on... You spend all of this time, effort, ingame wealth and often real money only to change zones and see those stats drop to below stat caps in lower level content. In past incarnations the Veteran player in lower zones was actually weaker than a new player with starting gear, or worse items, companions or gear bugged out and did not work properly.
The current solution is to make Veteran players like this scale to the stat cap of the lower level content they are in. Yep, still getting scaled down but now just not as far or harshly as before. I understand the need for scaling, but I argue for scaling "New" players up instead of scaling "Veteran" players down. There has to be a better solution that does not invalidate the hard work Veteran players have put into the game.
Progression and rewards in all content as it relates to perceived "nerfs" and reward gating
Rewards for completing content should be directly related to how difficult the content was, what stats were needed to participate and how long it took to complete it.
If there is a grind involved the reward should be significant and reflect the effort involved. No more black pearls in endgame content chests. No more blue rewards in the highest tier content.
I understand that sometimes in MMORPGs it is necessary to "nerf" items that are not WAI. I also understand that there always needs to be a chase item or items that are better than what I already have. The problem for me is being stuck with nerfed or old items that are bound to my character that I can't sell, salvage or even turn into equivalent refinement. If these items were instead unbound, salvageable for equivalent AD or refinement then I would not feel cheated out of the sometimes millions of AD, refinement, effort and time these items represent to me. I honestly would not mind buying an unbind token so that I could sell or move items.
IF you sell me something for real money that item should retain its value. If it does not then I am not likely to spend real money for items again. (Looking at you Chultan tiger!)
If there are BIS rewards that are locked / gated behind difficult content like TOMM for example they should be unbound or bound on equip. This will allow for the players who put in the effort to test and practice on preview to profit from their hard work while also allowing for an alternate way for others to acquire the equipment.
As we can see in this CDP alone this is a heated subject, but I think that given time and market saturation that the prices for BIS weapons or gear will naturally regulate itself. If this is still a problem a MAX sale price could be implemented through metadata or some other method to control prices. This is only one solution, but IMO it is fair to those who put in the effort to farm the items and fair to those who can not for whatever reason be that time, ability or desire complete the content to get the items in question.
One final note on BIS reward gating, if the rewards are going to be BIS they should not be gated behind content that requires 10 players. This is a hurdle that automatically excludes a large percentage of the playerbase no matter how hard the content is. Smaller guilds and casual players have a difficult time even gathering this many players to train with once, much less spend the amount of time it takes to train and be successful if they are required to find 10 members for the group each time. I know from experience that even in a large guild and alliance like I am in that it is very difficult to find enough capable and willing participants. I am thankful that I have enough friends ingame to find groups for TOMM but I am part of the exception and not the rule.
Risks & Concerns
As I mentioned discussion of rewards gating is a heated topic.Discussion of Scaling may require its own CDP.
Bind status of any reward could have a negative effect on the Auction House.
The rich will become richer. IMO people who put in the effort should be rewarded for their effort. Veterans of the game are always going to be richer and able to enjoy more content.(Just like in real life. YAY OLD PEOPLE!!)
Feedback Overview
Rewards lifespan and devaluation of effort.Many rewards take too long to get, or replaced too quickly, making the effort in obtaining them worthless.
A situation where many players prefer to skip chase items, and with them entire mods just out of fear of "next mod new thing"
This also applies to lockbox uncertainty, and class balance issue - for example, I want to by a t-rex for the 10% debuff, but for the fear of it being replaced right after I buy it, I'll rather do a dragon imitation and sit on a pile of AD.
Feedback Goal
Minimize the above.Feedback Functionality
First on the effort side. Reward effort needs to be capped. RNG is 'nice', if not alternative method exists, a pitty currency should exist. To assure that the effort put in some items will not have extreme outliers.On the replacement side:
Certainty - If I know that in the next X months no new armor set will be released and the next release will focus on weapons and artifacts, I will aim to get the current best one even if it takes more effort.
If I do know that next X months there will be a replacement, then I can judge if it worth for me to work for the current, but once the decision is mine and I know the expectation, I am less likely to be disappointed by a new release.
Earlier releases (And M17) had staggered gear release, one mod weapons, another artifact gear and so on - That was one main reason to do ToMM as it was assured that no replacement weapon will be released in M18 - and as far from some uber super guild some only got it a couple weeks ago - A replacement now would have put half year of effort down the drain.
Refund / upgrade - If there is an intention to create items with short life cycle but significant effort (aka release new armor set each mod that takes a full mod to get) then an upgrade path or refund is needed to normalize cost/value.
Can be done via crafting, NPC trade for something - It doesn't have to become the new best item. As long as the result still has some use, the effort that was put into it is not erased. An example can be trading old high end armor for some powerful crafting supplement (assuming crafting has value).
Risks & Concerns
None.Feedback Overview
- BTA/BTC: Nothing should be BTC in mho, it should all be BTA
- Collections have no meaning currently
- Give 3 load-outs
- No more bait and switch
- Make RP account-wide
- Balancing of keys for Reward Chests
Feedback Functionality- If you do not want things to flood the market, then just keep it BTA. There are so many items that we need to try out on different toons to see which fits best and with changes constantly within the game and stat changes along with gear changes rings, sets, etc. need to be interchangeable. I have many things right now that I cannot use because I used on one toon and now, I cannot use but could on another toon. I refuse to re-buy that item or have to re-farm it, when I have already done so once. Not going to lie we grind at times for vanity items and if it was BTA that would be awesome as well
- Total collection score seems to be for nothing. There are a lot of collectors out that could benefit from a collector reward or title. Discussing with others and it was mentioned a special companion or mount that is BTC only.
- It would also be beneficial to have 3 loadouts given to us at this time, we know that there are many set-ups that we have i.e.: DPS, Heals, PVP or AOE, Single Target and so on. If more is needed, then we can buy those ourselves as I have done.
- Grinding for rewards that are a bait and switch imo like watcher and TOMM are fun and challenging, BUT to have drops that do not even fit anyone’s current toons.
- If you insist on so much RP make it so we can share it within the bank just like all the other main currency-AD, Trade bars, Gold etc.
- We have so many dungeons and yet the number of keys that we can get does not match. If you wanted to spend the day running dungeons or the same one over and over, you wouldn’t be able to with some. Example the Underdark and the Greater Demonic Key we can only get one every 20 hours. Seems hard to do the several dungeons that require that key in one day if we wanted doesn’t it?
Feedback Goal- Hopeful that some of the items will be considered, because being able to run dungeons without the worry of being able to get rewards from chest, well that’s just fair play right. Same goes for the RP and having a share slot in bank for this.
- Who doesn’t want to have items to be BTA vs the BTC especially with certain items that perhaps a higher-ranking toon can get for a lower one.
- Fingers crossed that for future players more loadouts for their toons
- RNG-enough said
Risks & ConcernsSW:Mouse
OP:MisfitMouse
Professions/Mastercrafting - Retaining Relevance
Feedback Overview:
Players generally see crafting of little relevance if they cannot create end-game equipment. As modules come out, equipment needs change and can easily outstrip the needs for crafting.The content team feels preasure to update crafting recipes in an effort to keep crafting relevant and address player concerns.
Feedback Goal:
Make crafting relevant long term and reduce the need for constant updates to the crafting system.The primary goal of crafting should be to Augment, Reinforce, Buff, and Debuff.
Currently crafting can make armor reinforcement kits, jewelry reinforcement kits, and potions. However, their functionality and usefulness is a little limited. I would greatly expand the available options and make them the centerpiece of the crafting experience.
Equipment Augmentations retain their relevance despite mod changes, new gear, and stat increases.
The team will have less need to address crafting recipes in the long-run, and will be able to update them as time allows.
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Feedback Functionality:
---Armor Reinforcement Kits:
Generally Kits provide a small stat increase on gear, but they could be far more useful.-
They could provide Equip Bonuses.
You have a decent chest piece that does not have Butchers Might? There's an Armor Reinforcement Kit that can apply that bonus for you.
- Bonuses cannot be applied to a piece that already has a bonus.
- You'd have to control which bonuses are available, otherwise players would just add Swordsman's Perk to every piece of armor.
The general idea is to add more flexibility and more options, especially to lower-level items that don't currently have a gear bonus.-
They could provide % Damage or % Defense.
We had some in Tyranny of Dragons that applied buffs against dragons. Dragons aren't that common though, so their not really used.
I think we could have % verse Undead, or % verse Demons & Devils for Avernus and future mods.
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Other Character Attributes
We have kits for Stamina Regen, but you could also add kits for Run Speed, Control Resist, etc.
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Overall an expansion on what already exists. You can increase your stats, or add extra buffs.
Players have to make more decisions. You can only have one buff per gear piece - do you add Butcher's Might, do you add more power, do you increase your run speed?
I would also suggest that Armor Kits be spread across Crafting Professions.
For example:
- Armorers make armor reinforcement kits for Barbs, Fighters, and Paladins.
- Tailors make armor reinforcement kits for Wizards and Warlocks.
- Leather Workers make armor reinforcement kits for Rogues and Rangers.
- Blacksmiths can make reinforcement kits for metal weapons.
- Artificers make reinforcement kits for bows, warlock/wizard weapons, etc.
- Jewelcrafters make jewelry reinforcement kits.
So if you're starting the game as a Ranger, you might actually want to level up the professions that will apply usable reinforcement kits for your class.Risks & Concerns:
Again, if you're adding equipment bonuses you'd want to select them carefully. Any % damage bonus will get used before all others.
Generally I think the gear bonuses could use a rework, but that's a whole nother exhaustive topic.
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Overload Enchantments:
We can get overloads from dungeon drops, guilds, etc. But maybe add Overloads to the crafting trees and add a larger variety of buffs,etc.Again, I think Overloads should be spread across professions so they're not just clustered in Jewelcrafting.
Maybe Blacksmiths make offensive overloads, Armorers make defensive overloads, and Tailors make magical buffs. etc.
Risks & Concerns:
None. Overloads already have a limited-time effect. I see no down-sides.
Generally, I would like to see overloads added earlier in the game, both when characters are using them and when they become craftable. Right now they're available if you know where to look, but they're not integral to the early-game experience.
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Potions:
Just a general expansion of potions and various effects they can have.Not just stat increases, but also % damage to and defense from certain mob types. Maybe some potions have a positive as well as a negative effect.
Potions to Splash-buff Allies
I'm thinking the Summer event what you have the water balloon fights, but in this case you have a throwable potion that will splash-buff teammates.
Grenades/Bombs
Some debuff-style throwable potions/devices. Generally these items should be debuffs against mob stats.
We might already have these in Mastercrafting (which I don't have). If so, I think they should exist at lower levels as well.
Things like bombs would use several crafting skills. Blacksmithing to make a bomb case, Tailoring to make the wicks, Alchemy to make the explosive fluid, and Artificing to assemble it all together.
Risks & Concerns:
Debufs should be non-stackable so a group in a trial won't just debuff a boss into oblivion.
Perhaps one form of bomb reduces defense, another reduces awareness, they can both be active at the same time but no single debuff stacks multiple times.
Allied buffs would also be non-stackable. One person can apply it, but 10 people applying it does nothing or has greatly reduced affect.
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Energizeing Your Enchantments:
Basically a reinforcement kit for your enchantments. You craft a kit and instead of reinforcing a gear piece, you're buffing your enchantment to make it more effective.- Reinforcements can only be applied to enchantments that are socketed into gear.
- If you remove an enchantment from a gear piece, it loses it's energy and buff. The reinforcement is gone.
- If you move that enchantment to a new gear piece, you need to apply a new reinforcement kit.
Risks & Concerns:You'd have to balance the enchantment buffs against the overall buff to a character. Maybe these are not % changes but just small stat bonuses. Individually they are small, but energizing all your enchantments on a character will make a difference.
Players that move enchantments around often will need to reapply kits every time.
I think we can offset this by making kits reasonably easy to craft. So a player might have an entire stack of the 'energizing' kits and use them each time they move enchantments between toons.
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General:
Right now you can't craft kits until you're level 60 jewelcrafting, which means players will be near level 80 before kits really become an option.I would create recipes so players have lower-level kits available earlier in their progression. You really should be enhancing your gear on a continual basis as you level up, and you should have a larger range of decisions on what buffs you want to use.
This is an easy way to add more player choice. It will add more layers on how players think about their gear.
Do I take the armor with good stats, but with a useless Equip bonus for my class?
Or, do I take a gear piece with less stats, but I can apply an Equip bonus I want using a reinforcement kit?
Or, maybe I just want more run speed, and there's a kit I can make that will do that.
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Conclusion:
Crafting should be the place where you're making enhancements to your gear and character, thus it's always viable.Once Augment-style recipes are in place, they never go out of use. It doesn't matter what gear is important at the time. Crafting will remain valuable, and players will have more flexibility when selecting and upgrading gear.
Potion-style slot mechanics could use a lot more variability in both bonuses and design. Crafting can be the centerpiece.
The content team doesn't need to create new gear recipes every mod. Content stays relevant far longer.
Overall, I think the crafting system is where you have an opportunity to add more flexabilty to the game without recreating massive amounts of content.
Edit:
Another thing regarding Professions:
A lot of players have mentioned storage and transfer of items.
Items in the Fashion Palette have an option to 'Move to Inventory', which means they move to the regular inventory space. Fashion items can also be transfered back to the fashion palette.
You could implement the same functionality for professions items and tools.
Items that you move to regular inventory can then be transferred to other toons via the shared bank.
We already have modifications Via crafting, but this is pretty limited and has been neglected for well over a year. The best options we have are still the pre mod 16 options like +power or + health etc.
How about the ability to remove the equip bonus from one item, and transfer it on to a different item.
You could have a system similar to the appearance system, where you destroy the item, but instead of retaining its appearance, you retain the equip bonus instead, which you can then use on a new item.
Instead of a library of these bonus's it could be a one time thing, so each time you wanted to transfer an equip bonus, you would need to collect a new item to destroy.
This could be added to the crafting system too, meaning you would need a certain item that has to be created, as a one time use, which would retain the equip bonus, and be consumed when you apply it to a different piece of gear.
There would obviously need to be some limitations set in place, such as artefact bonus's can only be applied to artefacts, also some clarification on which bonus's can stack and which cannot. as far as i know, the only bonus that currently stacks is the sniper and swordsman perk, which is limited to x2, but it would be good to have some sort of indication as to if a bonus can stack, or if it is unique.
Something as strong as the ebony chest bonus, could be unique, and only applicable to one piece, but anything that is say. +3% at will damage, or +3% encounter damage could be applied to multiple items.
I think something like this would not only help with bulding a gear set more interesting, but also keep older items with decent bonus's relevant still, and hopefully avoid the issues brought about with items like the demon lord set.
Feedback Overview
Progress, story, and rewards from lvl 1 to 80 need to make more sense.
Feedback Goal
From my experience leveling in NW can be way too fast and rewards that are zone/area appropriate are useless by the time you recieve them. The other part of this problem is that you lose the story line when you zip up in levels as you end up with too many options of where to go next with no guidance on what makes the most sense. The goal then would be to slow this rocket ship down, let players who want to enjoy the story enjoy it without needing to resort to the wiki or other outside source to figure out where to go next, and obtain rewards that are meaningful and useful.
Feedback Functionality
Overall slow the amount of xp earned to allow players to have a more complete experience in each section of the game. If a player does want to move faster they are welcome to utilize the xp boosts or utilize the xp enhancing guild boons. Also give players the option of purchasing a item that can halt xp gain from the Zen store and/or AD store for when festivals are around or when there are xp boost events.
Create a more linear progression of questing areas. When I returned to the game as a level 60 toon, I spoke to Knox and had an overwhelming amount of content offered at that time. I still have no real idea what exactly happened in what order to Makos... and I genuinely enjoy story lines. Another possibility is have Knox only hand out quests for zones based on what zone you just completed, instead of based on level; although this could anger folks though who just want to zip through content to get to end-game.
Ensure that the rewards for each zone make sense. Not only armor and weapons, but enchants and the items needed to upgrade them should be included. Allow us to improve steadily as we progress.
Risks & Concerns
Not every one will want to take the slow path. That is why those folks should be able to get/use xp boosts of various kinds.
Will take reworking of xp rewards for the zones and a lot of work in streamlining the various zones to ensure that the story line is not lost for those who want to follow it.
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Feedback Overview
Progress and reward after 80 (or whatever the end game cap is at any time)
Feedback Goal
All end-game content should have valuable rewards.
Feedback Functionality
At this time, the most valuable reward you get from running almost all of the RTQ and REDQ options is RaD (sometimes unique armor skins too for those who like cosmetics). There are some exceptions such as in CoDG where you can get quality refining items. What I would like to see as a player is more value to the rewards. I don't care if it's Temple of the Spider epic, if I am running it as a level 80 who meets the current REDQ requirements I want the rewards to be suitable. Have better loot tables available for REDQ and RTQ. Higher quality refining stones. More chances to get higher level enchanting stones and marks of potency. Add preservation and coalescent wards. Keep unique armor and weapon skins, along with random mounts/companions in the loot tables. Above all, have these items be unbound. That allows the player to decide if they want to keep/use the items, sell on the market for AD, or gift to guild/alliance mates.
Risks & Concerns
You will never keep every one happy, but giving us rewards with value will keep most of us happy.
My comments are:
1. Scaling
Takes away from the feeling of progression, and is not making things challenging, just boring. Particularly when you get scaled down and the rewards are terrible. When you make it through the scorpions in Lair of Lostmauth and the final one drops a peridot, it is massively underwhelming. If we are going to get scaled down, the rewards should get scaled up. If the rewards are going to stay the same as what they were 3 years ago, the content shouldn't be scaled. Any Scaled content should have current rewards, this could be combined with multiple difficulty levels of dungeons discussed in previous discussions.
2. Progression
Progression from 0-80 just flies by, it takes a day or so. Then all the <80 level dungeons are obsolete. I'd rather see just one or two sub 80 dungeons and the rest brought up to level 80. Bring back the old dungeons as level 80 content.
After 80 it is a massive grind, but I understand that NWO needs to make some $$ and there needs to be some incentive to pay $$ left in the game, so I'm OK with that.
Would be nice to see some smaller content added to each of the mods as Mod 18.1, Mod 18.2 etc. to help extend the relevance of the mods out a little bit longer.
3. Professions
At the moment they feel dead. Maybe add the "pity" weapon sets as MC recipes and let them be made and sold on the AH. Perhaps not the BiS set. If crafting is kept relevant, then crafting resources could be added as rewards in older content. The manticore mane is/was a drop in FBI - if that was still desirable, people would still be farming FBI.
Maybe add exalting weapons to mastercrafting / professions, although this would only work if they were unbound.
3. Chase items & grinding Vs reward
Lately some of the items that you needed to grind for haven't seemed worth it. The ruined apprentice set in undermountain is one example and the watcher set another. The effort to benefit ratio didn't seem high enough to make it worth it. the apprentice set was just bad and the RNG associated with the watcher set discouraged a lot of people off it. I think it is a shame if you spend time developing content and then a large portion of the player base don't even bother with it.
So gear with massive grinds - should be BiS or close to it (effort to reward ratio)
Don't add multiple layers of RNG to chase items please
Goal: Increase the value of Neverwinter as an IP and make it a more fun and engaging game to play.
Professions and Master Crafting :
Primary focus: Develop a system that is not built on profiteering and AD sinks. That allows everyone to participate as much or as little as they wish to. That allows for items, ingredients and recipes to be accessible to all that choose to explore and discover these as opposed to purchasing them. This system must balance rarity with a sense of accomplishment upon achievement. Experience should also play a role in this system, meaning that RNG plays a factor, but with experience and success it RNG becomes less of a factor.
Mass production should not play a role in Professions or MW, alt armies need not apply. There should be a larger capacity for Professions box with the understanding that the box, tools, and employees will be account wide. Adding items to the mix like what @thefabricant and @lordaeolos have suggested with relation to gear etc.
Boons:
Primary Focus: Boons should be rewarding and offer significance given the time invested in completing content to achieve them. Also they should also offer some additional reward tied to actually playing the game versus outright purchasing them.
Boons should come in the form of percentage increase of damage/healing/defense against enemies in a campaign. The first level of this boon should be rewarded upon completion or purchase of the campaign. For example, upon completion or purchase of Sharandar you receive a 5% increase to damage/healing/defense in all Sharandar related content. The second level would be tied to achievements, meaning after killing so many of a particular type of enemy you now gain 5% damage against them in any area. So to continue the example, facing Trolls in Sharandar or say Malabog's Castle you would have 10% damage against them if you had completed both levels of the Sharandar boon, but if you faced the same Troll SpellPlague you would only have a 5% advantage against.
Character Loudout:
Primary Focus: Simplify the areas which contribute to a characters build and add more value
Currently we have 4 tabs which contribute to our characters stats, Main, Boons, Mounts, Companions. @lordaeolos and I discussed his earlier solution, however with my suggestion on changes to boons a suggestion to split it 4 ways instead of 5 might work.
Leveling
Primary Focus: Creating a unique story for each character as they learn about how to play their class, and the game through gameplay questing and tutorials.
I really like some of @lordaeolos suggestions as well as @backpetal, the added tutorials by an NPC is a great idea, I would go one step further and at the completion of certain milestones in their characters development they should be given green BoA companions so that by the time they reach level 80 they have the correct amount of companions to fill the slots in the character sheet. These could even be given through a quest in a zone, a rescue mission for example.
Risks and Concerns:
-Guild boons were not addressed at all, they are flat stats and will become very outdated soon, and could be a complicated issue when reordering character loadout. However they could be done in the same way as I have proposed increasing damage inside SH, and the enemies would count towards the Kill Achievements bonus.
Feedback Overview
To have my way about everythingFunctionality
Simple changes/less waiting;An easier to read statistics bar, with red to indicate under capped; gold/over capped; green/optimal zone.
A posted que group list with player names, so you don't waste time in que for a dungeon flies wouldn't touch.
Add slots to armor, yes new slots, starting with 3-4, instead of a boon add a slot. Next mod add more if you like or intro a new one with more. Add customizable variety to cookie cutter builds, maybe not eliminating the BIS but giving options.
Charge (nominally) to obtain colored name letters, all or one at a time, so everyone knows "Weenieboy" or "Pinkeye" are in the HOUSE!
When I do invokes for example, I teleport to PE on a toon, then go to the next guy, same map same instance, and the map reloads; why? Can't I just pop in the next toon without the reload? Nothing else changed there? How about a toon drop down menu to select next invoker? It would certainly reduce server strain. We switch loadouts, mounts, pets, all without map switching. Anyways, map load times are always miserable, can they be faster?
I want a build no one else has, or at least one that looks that way.
Risks and Concerns
Posting que lists of players may cause others to opt out because those waiting are under geared, and basically a "carry". Perhaps not showing stats of waiting players, just their readiness is enough.Also, this Whiteside person, are you sure that's not George Clooney in disguise? a guy that buffed seems overqualified for a mere Twitch stream.#Prettyboy.
I missed this post the first time thru. there are definitely combinations of these as well and another type too. the crafter. I know people who do (did, not sure if they are still playing anymore) almost nothing but crafting in this game. it was their gig. we're touching this in the dig down so I won't elaborate more but good post! combinations of these things together in rewards would definitely be nice though.
Analysis of vertical character progression and its effects on an MMORPG like Neverwinter. Look at the alternative (horizontal progression / alternative advancement) and the reasons for rethinking their current balance in Neverwinter.
Feedback Goal
Re-evaluate and redesign the nature of character improvement (vertical vs. horizontal progression). Currently implemented design is counter-productive and in fact the root cause of long-term problems.
Feedback Functionality
Vertical character progression has its roots in pen-and-paper RPG games. The idea that characters both grow stronger and acquire higher quality gear certainly appeals to the players on their Hero’s Journey through the game world. Single player computer RPGs copied it verbatim into their design and from there, it spread to multiplayer RPGs. However, I’m making the argument that this is actually not a good fit for MMORPGs.
The first problem stems from the very nature of MMOs. Most of the content in the game needs to be playable by as many players as possible (creating content that only a small fraction of players can experience is a waste of development resources). More crucially, it needs to be playable by differently geared characters at the same time. This means that any piece of challenging content inevitably has a “Goldilocks zone” associated with it - while there’s a range of “just right” geared characters who find the content enjoyably challenging, undergeared characters will be overwhelmed, while overgeared characters will quickly become bored. The very nature of vertical progression means that the “Goldilocks zone” cannot fit all (or even most of) players who could be interested (if zone covered all players, vertical progression wouldn’t be relevant).
The second problem with vertical progression is the “rush to endgame” thinking it creates. As the game gets updated, new content is invariably released with endgame players in mind. This new content (which logically has the most desirable rewards, i.e. highest quality gear) becomes the anchor point for evaluating all other content in game through the “reward to time spent” ratio. Everything else except for the BiS (best in slot) gear and max level characters comes to be viewed as inferior, just part of the “grind” or stepping stones on the path to the “real game”. Most players (be they newbies or veterans) want to spend as little time and effort as possible dealing with that kind of content.
Notice that the “Goldilocks zone” issue becomes worse when dealing with endgame content. While characters are leveling up, “Goldilocks zone” is actually helpful in directing the gameplay across the different areas in the game - you’re motivated to go visit new areas as you outlevel current area, while gatekeeping you from entering areas you’re not yet ready to handle. In contrast, newly max level characters expect to now be ready for all challenges (that’s the whole point of their journey after all). As newer and newer releases bring better and better gear into the game, the vertical spread between entry-level and BiS widens more and more, making the “Goldilocks zone” of any content relatively narrower and narrower. This puts even more pressure on players to rush to the endgame. And, as more and more players reach (near) BiS, the apparent demand for new endgame content becomes more and more intense - a self-feeding negative cycle that directly threatens the longevity of the game.
The solution, then, would be some kind of balance between vertical and horizontal progression (also called Alternative Advancement). In the beginning of a new player’s journey, progression could be 100% vertical - as we’ve seen above, it’s actually helpful. Having less choices to make keeps down confusion / choice paralysis. Having only a limited (but robust) core set of powers available facilitates learning to play process. Then, as players reach highest levels, vertical progress should mostly taper out, to be replaced by horizontal progress - more choices of character powers, feat points and paragon paths for playstyle customization, conditionally helpful perks, tricks, and special abilities, etc. When graphed out, the curve of vertical progression should be logarithmic.
Looking at the competition, ESO (Elder Scrolls Online) appears to do exactly that. Neverwinter currently does the opposite - there’s a fair amount of horizontal progression involved while leveling up (choice of paragon path at level 30, unlocking of additional combat power choices and feats), but that tapers out once characters reach max level and gets replaced by more vertical progression (boons). The curve is exponential instead of logarithmic. It is designed the wrong way around.
Risks & Concerns
Horizontal progression options (that would replace vertical progression) need to be meaningful and worthwhile for this to work. This is far more challenging than just throwing incremental stat values on new gear with each new content release.
As always, I firstly appology for by bad english, some parts in my comments where edited due google translate.
Now this may not fit current CDP topic, but I want to bring it anyways due that it's realated to progresion. That's mean campaing boons and etc.
The whole thing is to decide do we want neverwinter be action based combat or not.
IN old old days( pre mod 6).
To complete dungeon needed:
70% team work and players skills. That's mean, players combat experience when use certain powers, how combine with other group members powers so it would increase over all groups performance. And also knowledge about dungeon mechanics.
Then rest 30% where about gear and buffs.
More less, group where challenged as players.
Mod after mod and game changed.
Now we have game which challenging players gear/build but not players.
That's mean, enough to get items/gear and you are top end player..
Gear influence players combat like 90%, while experience and knowledge of dungeon mechanics make like ~10% .
With mod 16 release and introduction of dungeon lair of the mad mage showed up current philosophy of dungeon/content desing.
Which is same as prior mod 16, challenging players gear but not players.
Second boss in LoMM, Second Boss Fight – “BoreWorm”, when you reduce his HP to certain amount, then you reach so called
Heal check point.
All you need is stand still and eat incoming hits, while healer restore Hp.
Finall boss in LoMM Trobriand, when you take down 2/3 of his HP. He get in center of platform and start charging.
You and party destroy towers which charging him(boss). Then whole party gather and stand near healer, which grant
buffs(if have) to reduce incoming dmg from boss AoE attack.
This part you can call HP check point.
Even if you wipe towers which charged boss very fast, and you have full HP. Due not having certain ammount of HP< woul lead to your death.
Then there is Tower of Mad mage, so called phase 2 and phase 4, Dps check points.
Which actually you can simply call > keyboard hammering check point.
You stand still, and keep repeating power rotations and dropping artefact/mounts powers.
Now tell me, in which part is so called action based combat?
IF we going for action based combat, then need to make dungeons so it would challenge group as players.
Valindra tower, as example challenge players. When she summon spectres, players must run away from them, on top valindra use AoE attacks. So that require party members move around in order to survive<.
To make more action focused gameplay, gear and boons and etc influence in combat must be adjusted so it's influence would not go more than 65%.
IF we plan go with current path(gear focused combat). Then sure,, there are options to expand on it, but then we have to drop/adust some of action combat elements...
So it's time for community and staff to decide where this game go..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Meaningful player to player interaction is arguably the most potent retention tool available for an MMO. Neverwinter should implement a reward system for mentor-mentee pair-ups when playing through challenging game content (both open world questing and queued content).
Feedback Goal
Replace some of the existing rewards (specifically the daily random queue AD rewards) with a new reward structure that incentivises meaningful social interaction between a veteran player (mentor) and a newer player (mentee).
Feedback Functionality
Player to player interaction is naturally a part of every MMO. In Neverwinter, we currently have guilds/alliances, zone/custom chat, and multiplayer content (open world parties, queued instances) as the primary channels/drivers for interaction.
I propose a system to explicitly track and reward a specific type of two-player interaction while completing any challenging content in game - one between the mentor (teacher) and the mentee (student).
Just imagine - what if a new player, fresh out of character creation, would be met on the beach by an experienced player? One who is rewarded by built-in game mechanics for being a good mentor. What if that mentor-mentee pairing was in effect throughout the game, offering rewards to both mentor and mentee for completing challenging content together?
It is not terribly difficult to imagine an automated system that keeps track of player expertise with a class and role, measured by completed content. For example, if you’ve successfully completed challenging content in a given difficulty range as a cleric healer a couple of times, it stands to reason that you would be able to advise a new cleric healer. On the other hand, a veteran cleric healer with tens or hundreds of completions probably has good advice for you to further improve your game, making her a good mentor for you in turn.
I’m currently envisioning 3 game features for mentoring:
* A private, persistent mentoring chat channel. Entries should be annotated with timestamp and position (mentor/mentee) in addition to character’s name.
* (Optional) in-game voice chat between mentor and mentee, instead of current party-wide voice chat.
* Shadow copy of mentee’s action bar visible to mentor (in addition to his/her own action bar). This way, the mentor can see the powers selected by the mentee and also advise on the proper timing of actions.
Note that you wouldn't be required to actively play that character at the time you’re mentoring - you can play your rogue character while giving advice to cleric healer mentee.
This system would obviously need a list of spoken languages for each player (in order of preference for those of us who speak more than 1 language).
I expect that queued content needs to be changed somewhat to better match this new system. Instead of 5-man content, they should probably be balanced for 4 or 6 players (2 or 3 mentor-mentee pairs). This actually creates an opportunity for varying difficulty without changing the content - something balanced around 4 players would naturally be easier for 6 players and harder for 2 players.
Risks & Concerns
There’s a subset of players who sometimes prefer not to engage with other players while playing the game (even though it’s an MMO). The new system should act as a carrot, not as a stick when it comes to those players - rewarding desired social behavior, but not outright prohibiting solo adventuring when one feels like it.
It's been mentioned at least once before, and I wholeheartedly agree, the time to level needs to be increased to allow for a more in depth and immersive story-line and educational experience with regards to how the game works. I remember my first time playing the game was some of the most fun I had, until the story started to fall apart, and then it became this extremely long and arduous journey to rank up my enchantments and earn ad to buy really expensive stuff. The time, effort, and sometimes money needed to rank up enchantments needs to be reduced, in general this would reduce the time it takes for leveled players to reach end-game content.
Feedback Goal
Increase time to level, and decrease time to reach end-game, while providing a more story centric gaming experience in open-world content. I believe open-world pve content should be more immersive, and players should be able to become emotionally invested in certain npcs, zones, and "goals". The short time to level, and long monotonous grind to end-game makes it difficult to become invested in the game except for those who are invested in progression for progression's sake alone. The one thing that got me to play the game, and be excited about it, was the first "prerendered 3d movie" where Valindra is besieging Neverwinter with her dracolich and Xuna kills the orc or whatever it was, that **** was ****ing EPIC man. I would like to see more of that in the story-lines as they progress in the open-world pve content. Scenes like this were awesome in games like FFVII/IX and Starcraft I when I was a kid, and I would keep playing all night just to get to the next one. It's scenes like this that can cause a tear to well up when a player is emotionally invested in a npc, or the story in general.
Feedback Functionality
Sharp has a whole bunch of feedback on how boons can be improved in a way that I think would shorten the time it takes to get to end game in a good way, so I would suggest looking at that in regards to boons.
Specifically what I wanted to talk about was about enchantments, runestones, and weapon/armor enchantments. I think reducing the cost to upgrading these would go a long way in reducing the time it takes for players to reach end game, and leave room for them to become more invested in the game for other reasons. If this is something people and the developers agreed, with, to what extent the cost should be reduced and by how much the time/effort to get to end-game should be cut would require further discussion.
One way to reduce the time it would take to rank up enchants would be to add marks and enchanting stones to the loot tables of epic dungeons/trials, including rank 4, 5,6, and 7 marks. Another would be to increase the odds of ranking enchantments up, and maybe reducing the amount of reagents needed to rank up weapon/armor enchantments. It would also be nice to see companion upgrade tokens, and epic insignias in the loot tables, maybe in the boss drops like the rare one's do.
Risks & Concerns
Reducing the cost to reach end-game would most likely upset players who are already there, as they had to either put in the year(s) of work to get there or irl $. However, I think it would be better for the game in the long term with regards to player retention if there wasn't a seemingly insurmountable wall of ranking up enchantments, insignias, and pets in front of them. I also think that this is only a problem, mostly because each new module mostly makes all previous content irrelevant, and makes it even harder for new players to progress their character to end game as all the loot they get is basically useless or the market is saturated with. If old content was made to be more relevant and worthwhile to run for the long term, almost indefinitely, then it wouldn't be so painful to be "stuck", but boredom could still be a problem.
Allow players to create wishlists for the rewards they’d most like to receive. These items could then be added to the random loot table (with significantly increased odds) when determining rewards for the player where appropriate.
Feedback Functionality
In pen and paper D&D, Game Masters tend to know their players rather well. They know which rewards would excite players the most. Ability to offer custom-tailored rewards is a powerful tool when used at appropriate moments - nobody wants to conclude an epic boss fight with disappointed players who are unhappy about their completely useless loot.
Similar benefits could be gained from implementing character-specific wishlists. For example, players could right-click items in Collections and choose “Add to wishlist”. The list does not need to be infinite - limiting it to 3 to 5 items seems reasonable.
Whenever random loot table is used to determine rewards for a character (for example a rewards chest at the end of a dungeon), items on the wishlist could be added to the loot table (with reasonably higher odds than other random items), assuming it is an appropriate place for receiving such an item. The odds can even be made increasing with each miss on the loot table, offering an easy mechanism for eliminating long bad luck streaks on earning those items.
Once received, the item would be automatically removed from the wishlist, though nothing prohibits the player from adding that item again if he/she wants to receive another copy in the future.
Risks & Concerns
To preserve the intended rarity of tradeable high-value items, wishlist items should probably be delivered Bound to Account, even if they would be unbound otherwise.
While Collections pages already contain most of the items in game, some are notably absent or exceedingly difficult to find in there. Updating the categories and adding all the missing things (including enchantments, runestones, preservation/coalescent wards, special ingredients, masterwork profession materials, etc.) is probably quite a time-consuming task.
So, while your idea is more general and can be implemented a lot of ways, I just shortly cut into my preferred implementation to explore the topic:
Feedback Overview: Pushing non-HP/Power character stats from normal gear into companion items and making them only craftable. And also, redesigning companion gear slot unlocks with character progression.
Feedback Goal: Clearly defined separation of items, item tiers and making professions (especially Mastercraft) have a clearly defined and separated role.
Feedback Functionality: As written above, but also, the ways of gathering companion items are basically the most user-unfriendly RNG timesinks. Even before the WE's or the much needed Zok change, Illusionist's gambit was a whole mod of grind. Probably the best way to get comp items was the "Sword Coast Adventures" web gateway to the game, where you rolled the dices from your companions and heard a fun little story while doing so. Also, that part was botted pretty heavily and buggy as hell, but at least that was more interesting to interact with than the profession system as a whole. I would like to get minigames like that implemented into the professions or just into the game in general. But I'm off topic a little.
The point is, acquiring companion gear was really just to grind something for 4 month without much content added. No one really liked it, so just putting it into the professions as craftables is just the sensible choice unless the point is to be a timewaster.
However, while initially it would make a lot of sense, on it's own there is one more problem which is that stat sticks are things with only numerical values and thus only one of them is the best, but as time goes, the best items will get cheaper and cheaper and new items need to be introduced. This actually applies to unique items as well as the newer items should have better bonuses or at lest, more stats. But that's why I would keep (at least some) the Power on them, so the same effects can be reintroduced if needed especially if those effects are class-defining (like, Damage Reduction or outgoing healing). However, outgoing healing is kind of a stat AND an effect, but counting it as an effect would actually help to not artificially make difference in damage for classes by role-ing them but to make the different choices in gear.
That means that all old and lower tier content retroactively have to be redesigned with the easier accessibility of the higher tier items and newly introduced items, which either needs the whole game redone every 2 years or... locking out certain stat stick slots until a certain level of progression reached. This means that higher geared content does not actually need to be given higher stat items, but retroactively just adding an extra slot and opening for those who reached the conditions and requiring those conditions to do the new tier.
While this does not really save reworking the old stuff eventually as probably new and better stat sticks have to be added, it will make it significantly slower. As mod17, if you need to give the characters 40-50k extra stats, you just overstat new rings with +10k and the companion items with some more thousand. But if implemented, lock in an extra slot for a new companion gear slots and unlock for those who got X amount of trinket from ToMM. You make the content doable without the slots, but because the stat caps, the extra slot does not matter until Infernal Citadel.
Risks and Concerns:
That would mean to redo the profession system to fit in for the stat sticks, which I act like is a concern, not something that I really would like to be done and objectively is still a concern as it will mean more resources and messing with priorities. But I think the profession system is still a soulless RNG pay-to-wait system that is technically a part of the game and, but people would never "play" the professions in this game, but engage with it and do the chores of it.
Also, it does not really makes sense with the current companion system, so it will need some rework too. And the UI will need to be redone for the new slots, but it can be foreseen and implemented in a way that could at least in the backend, handle infinite amount of slots.
Artifacts as stats will be significantly changed, but I think that should need a change too. The tales of old set or the old heart of the dragon sets were way more interesting for me.
The Gond Event can provide insignias of Gond in both uncommon (Green) and rare (Blue). The last time this event was run there were no Epic (Purple) Gond insignias which could in turn be refined to Legendary level. Updating the Gond insignias inline with the changes made to the other insignias would be good. Dropping them during the Gond event would keep Gond rewards desirable and relevant.
a couple things to add,
For me story progression has always been a good motivator it helps keeping me pushing forward because i want to find out what happens it's been the cause of many late nights because i just had to finish the next few pages of the book i'm hooked on, There are some good stories in Neverwinter but i'm struggling to recall anything that has given me that burning need to continue the story.
I think the stories could also benefit from some choice/consequences scenarios, as an example: oh you looted the chest of an NPC in a Hub zone, now during any combat the NPC randomly appears and attacks you until you pay back what was taken.
The story conclusions also feel underwhelming/ not epic, Yay i've defeated X,Y,Z boss and i've saved neverwinter again , No parade , no statue , no adoring fans naming offspring after my toon.
In terms of gear progression, the point i am at is Wards/ higher level enchanting stones are my roadblock where i have to build up AD to transfer to zen or wait for the Winter or Summer events
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Secondly, with regards to risks, there are actually people who enjoy playing the professions system, myself (and some other players) included which is why I wrote a couple of 1000 words about them. If I didn't care about them in some way, or feel that other players care about them as well, I wouldn't have written so much about them. There are actually people who "play" professions. But really, I think anyone who actually enjoys tinkering with professions would be fine with the developers trying to change the rewards so that they are actually desirable. It would be more about changing the rewards then changing the system (although I do have a section in there about redoing the system as well).
I really don’t understand why scaling and level progression is so hard of a topic in Neverwinter. To me it is very easy math, and post Mod 16, this game was supposed to be all about the math. Lets question a few items and then put it all together.
Level caps:
Why do you need to have level caps for so long? Why can’t every mod come out and increase the cap by 10 levels?
Progression:
Progression is broken. You outlevel areas before you get to them. It breaks the story, players don’t learn mechanics. Players are saying they want slower progression but Chris has stated multiple times that they want to consolidate the lower levels and make them quicker. These are competing ideas. What is progression exactly? It’s both level and content in this game but considered separate. Why can’t content be connected to levels?
“Game begins at Level 80”:
I hate this saying. No, the game begins at Level 0. (Current) Level 80 should be the end of game content, not the start. The goal is to get to level 80 as an accomplishment, not considered the end of the tutorial.
Putting it all Together:
So how can we put this all together? Also known as my Scaling/Content solution.
First, let’s make the numbers easy. I’m going to use nice even numbers. I’ll leave it up to the big brains to sort the real numbers out. These are just hypothetical numbers so don’t read into them.
Levels have meaning- Let’s say at the beginning of the game you start at level 0. By the end of Mod 18 you are level 100 (once again, made up numbers). When a new mod comes out, “cap” goes up by 10. So for Mod 19, it is Level 101-110 content.
Stats are tied to levels- Base stats are tied to levels. As you go up, so do your stats. Choosing where to allocate 2 ability points has to be eliminated (sorry, this may make people mad). It has to be this way for scaling to work correctly.
Boons are tied to content completion- Powers/Feats are tied to levels. Rework them, make them meaningful. This is where the player can create diverse builds. Create a better system, like Power/Feats unlock branches on the tree and Boons level up those branches.
Areas are tied to and restricted to levels- Intro levels 1-10, Blacklake 11-20, Next 21-30, ect. You must be the appropriate level AND completed the prior level to unlock. This assures people don’t skip areas and mess up the storyline and don’t learn mechanics.All areas have a “storyline” solo dungeon. This teaches mechanics. A person must have completed the storyline dungeon to unlock the random queue version. The solo dungeon can be run as often as the player wants.
Scaling brings a person’s BASE STATS down to the highest for the dungeon- Since the dungeon is the end of an area, a person’s BASE STATS should be scaled to the highest level of that area. For example, a level 75 person playing a level 40 dungeon has their BASE STATS reduced to level 40. Notice BASE STATS? This is to solve the main problem of what pissed people off the most about scaling, their hard work is wasted. Players feel punished when running lower content. Only scale BASE STATS, all other enhancements (enchantments, armor, insignias, companion powers, ect) carry over at full. This takes the edge off and doesn’t let a player be “God” but still lets them smash trash and feel powerful.
Rewards Solution:
See, I told you I’d be able to connect the two. Honestly, this was the missing link to making this all work. High level players feel that they don’t get rewarded for running lower level content and thus have no desire to. Random queues are a way to force players to do it and honestly, it’s a cheap move. Players should want to run content, not be forced to artificially.
I assume Cryptic has a target RAD/time ratio. If not… shame on you. Let’s use made up numbers of 10,000 RAD/hour. Meaning, an “average” player should be able to do most activities that earn RAD at the rate of 10,000 RAD for 1 hour work. Now we can use the thought of skirmish,“normal”, and “epic” dungeons to efficiently give rewards. If a skirmish is completed in about 15 minutes, it should reward 2,500 RAD. If a “normal” dungeon is completed in 30 minutes, it should reward 5,000 RAD. If “Epics” are targeted to take an hour, then 10,000 RAD. This concept can work with RP too. All Cryptic needs is a reward/time ratio.
Now the real question was always, how to make this work with both low level players and high level players. Low level players don’t need as much reward, high level players need more rewards as stuff like refining costs a heck of a bunch more. I propose a reward modifier per level. Something like every 10 levels, your reward modifier increases by 2%. So if a level 80 person is running a “normal” dungeon, they would get the base 5,000 RAD plus 800 RAD.
Once again, this can work for RP with the amount of bonus RP going right to the players RP pool. This way, jems can still be sold on the Auction House at their base level but the player gets to keep the bonus.
Sorry, I know it’s a lot of text, but this game has some work that needs to be done. To me, it almost needs to become Neverwinter 3.0 (others will have higher versions). Fixing it won’t be easy and I think that the players know that. There will be bumps and struggles, but if the players know what direction Cryptic is going (ie a roadmap) they will be more patient.
Thanks for reading and the other great discussions!
So fine, if you want to dash off and "help" the new player by removing each and every obstacle from his or her path before they even become aware of them, and then jump up and down impatiently at the boss gate, cool... but no bonus for you.
PHASE 2 PHASE 2 PHASE 2
Morning All,Happy Monday. I will be continuing to comment as necessary. Meanwhile if you all can move onto phase 2 then that would be great. Specifically it is time to drill into the areas and ideas you like, what you want to know more about, collaborate on, challenge (in a valuable way) and evolve.
At the moment we are interested to know more of your thoughts in regard to Horizontal progression, evolution of vertical progression, what variation of current types of rewards you would like to see? This will do for now and of course this is on top of what you all would like to drill into as well.
Looking forward to seeing the next phase of this CDP.
Chris
Chris
Thanks for posting. Yes this is something we are currently looking into (Scaled Rewards). Would be a good topic to drill into.
Chris
Chris