Official M18: Zone, Repeatable Quests and Heroic Encounters Feedback

outlawgent · January 2020

FEEDBACK: this new map is too dense. unplayable.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: general thoughts on the map

I've been thinking about the map for the past few days. In general, I think it's too much "stronghold" and not enough "Avernus". Entering the Hells should be a jarring experience and it just doesn't give off that vibe. It's too late this close to launch, but my recommendation would have been to grow the map by 25-33% and use the extra space for a truly Avernus-like feel.

One question I have has to do with the buildings due east of the keep. Are they supposed to be part of the stronghold, or are they structures that were already present in Avernus? If it's the latter, then I think they should look different than they do. For instance, perhaps the retaining walls should be constructed of shale. Or perhaps they should be constructed of bones, but they definitely shouldn't look like the retaining walls in Protector's Enclave.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: Runeworks quest against Image of Baphomet is way, way, WAY too hard

I posted about this already but since there's been a patch and it's still just as hard I'm posting again. The difficulty of this fight is really beyond the pale. Baphomet has a non-telegraphed, rapid-fire attack that hits for ridiculous damage. There are WAY too many adds as well. The fight is unplayable. You need to dial this down big-time or be prepared for the screaming from the playerbase.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: incorrect wording in quest dialogue

Text from Etrien Sael: "She holds your reigns as well, eh?". It should be reins, not reigns.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: unbalanced damage

Some enemies in the map deal WAY too much damage with non-telegraphed attacks.

[Combat (Self)] Glabrezu deals 85077 Physical Damage to you with Pincer Left.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Glabrezu deals 111675 (127616) Physical Damage to you with Pincer.

I've noticed that the incubi and succubi also do crazy damage. Their attacks tend to average in the 30k range per hit, but the problem is that they hit you so many times per second that they can melt you faster than you can react.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: demons are too close to the respawn point

It's not fair that when you die and respawn in at the campfire to the south, you are IMMEDIATELY attacked by all these critters:

- Nalfeshnee
- Glabrezu
- 2 Barlgura
- Rotting Mane

First, they shouldn't be this close. Second, the encounter itself is ridiculously hard in itself. Gotta dial this stuff back, guys. I've lost count of the number of times demons have killed me tonight and I'm having to burn up health stone charges like crazy in every single fight against demons. People will raise holy hell if it goes live like this.

hustin1 · January 2020

BUG: cannot pick the pick up

For the quest Restore the Devils Hold Glyphworks, I'm supposed to find a pick in the ruins. I found it but I can't interact with it to pick it up.

dontez1 · January 2020

I want to 2nd want @hustin1 has been saying about the difficulty of the campaign zone. It is suppose to be a IL 20k zone.. It is unrealistic to think players can achieve 85k ratings at 20k. Casual players with 24kIL will get stomped in this zone. The Campaign zone and the Dungeon are two different areas.. The damage of the mobs needs to be toned down a bit. Only players that are use to hard difficulty or BIS gear are able to handle it as it is right now.

Also: Devils and Demons are still walking around on their cellphones ignoring each other till PCs come by.. This IS suppose to be Avernus...Ground Zero in the Blood War. They should be killing each other on sight (like Gith and Illithid).
It would be awesome to see Demons holding the Western side. Devils on the East. Fighting over the Stronghold in the center.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: mystery damage

I'm not sure what happened here, but in less than a second I lost roughly 100k HP. It was just "BAM! You're dead." Nothing big shows up in the log, though. I have R13 Lifedrinker and R13 Bloodtheft equipped, if that means anything. This is everything that was done to me in the fight:

[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1635 (2529) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer deals 21746 (33481) Physical Damage to you with Charge.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Bloodsworn Brigand deals 2944 (4553) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Hell Hound deals 3870 (5986) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodtheft Armor gives 1801 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 643 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1772 (2741) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3908 (6043) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Hell Hound deals 4034 (6240) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer deals 17629 (27142) Physical Damage to you with Sweep.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Bloodsworn Brigand deals 2681 (4146) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3156 (4880) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodletter gives 59956 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Enticing Incubus deals 5761 (10483) Physical Damage to you with Double Slash.
[Combat (Self)] Hell Hound deals 3296 (5997) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Enticing Incubus deals 7164 (13036) Physical Damage to you with Double Slash.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3219 (5856) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Bloodsworn Brigand deals 5024 (9142) Physical Damage to you with Whirlwind.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer deals 18484 (33481) Physical Damage to you with Bash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 143 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1633 (5943) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer gives 0 Knockback to you with Bash.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Enticing Incubus deals 21604 (39312) Physical Damage to you with Draining Kiss.
[Combat (Self)] Hell Hound deals 3362 (6117) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1623 (2953) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodtheft Armor gives 9597 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 160 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 1683 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Enticing Incubus deals 21604 (39312) Necrotic Damage to you with Necrotic Claw.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1663 (6051) Physical Damage to you with Whirlwind.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Legion Devil Officer deals 9011 (32644) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3323 (6046) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1651 (6006) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Hell Hound deals 3225 (5869) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 145 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer deals 5545 (10044) Physical Damage to you with Quick Stab.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 266 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1821 (2817) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 133 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer deals 6524 (10044) Physical Damage to you with Quick Stab.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3801 (5879) Physical Damage to you with Whirlwind.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Hell Hound deals 5946 (9197) Physical Damage to you with Bite.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3886 (6010) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Bloodsworn Brigand deals 1784 (2759) Physical Damage to you with Dagger Throw.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Legion Devil Officer deals 32619 (50222) Physical Damage to you with Sweep.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Bloodsworn Brigand deals 3000 (9281) Physical Damage to you with Melee Attack.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 806 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 436 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Life Steal gives 463 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Legion Devil Officer gives 0 (8142) Physical Damage to you with Quick Stab.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Bloodsworn Brigand gives 0 (7136) Physical Damage to you with Whirlwind.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Legion Devil Officer deals 7933 (12214) Physical Damage to you with Quick Stab.
[Combat (Self)] You cannot use this power.
[Error] You have fallen in battle!

The character I'm testing with is 23k without the guild boons and it's just impossible to stay alive in most fights. I'm really hoping the devs listen to this feedback because the burst damage from enemies in Avernus is really nuts.

arazith07 · January 2020

I really think that the recommended item level should be raised to at least 23k so that players are encouraged to complete other campaigns before coming to this map and have a bit more of a chance. Or if they want to start it early, to at least have friends.

I do not think the difficulty should be lowered, or to change the ratings. The ratings being the same as the dungeon will allow for less confusion and you will know what targets you should aim for. As for difficulty, it is about the same difficulty and mob density as Chult when it was first introduced, and we were able to cope just fine then.

@hustin1 The whole map is what was taken of the SH and surrounding areas on the Prime Material plane and is suspended above Avernus. We really don't go into Avernus proper until you go into the dungeon.

hustin1 · January 2020

arazith07 said:
I really think that the recommended item level should be raised to at least 23k so that players are encouraged to complete other campaigns before coming to this map and have a bit more of a chance. Or if they want to start it early, to at least have friends.

I do not think the difficulty should be lowered, or to change the ratings. The ratings being the same as the dungeon will allow for less confusion and you will know what targets you should aim for. As for difficulty, it is about the same difficulty and mob density as Chult when it was first introduced, and we were able to cope just fine then.

@hustin1 The whole map is what was taken of the SH and surrounding areas on the Prime Material plane and is suspended above Avernus. We really don't go into Avernus proper until you go into the dungeon.

It's not just a question of other campaigns, really. The alt I'm testing with is 23k because she has lots of R15's and lots of legendary insignia -- easily 20M worth of upgrades. Completing all other campaigns will get you to about 18k, or 20k with a bunch of upgrades. As it stands today, a 20k will get stomped in Avernus.

The first level 80 campaign should in no way require such a jump in IL all the way up to 23k. That is grossly elitist.

bayaz · January 2020

hustin1 said:
BUG: cannot pick the pick up

For the quest Restore the Devils Hold Glyphworks, I'm supposed to find a pick in the ruins. I found it but I can't interact with it to pick it up.

There is more than one spot for the pick. I have done the quest three times now. The first pick was at 12 o Clock and when i tried to do it the second time, i saw it there, but could not pick it up. I found an interactable pick in the ruins of a building at 3 o clock after searching a bit. The third time it was there again. I would probably change the setup for the quest and only make picks visible, that can actually be interactet with.

I agree on the campfire in the south situation, the groups are to close to it.

And the damage in the zone could really be toned done a bit. Not a big problem for strong characters, but newer players far away from the stat caps will probably very upset.

gabrieldourden · January 2020

hustin1 said:
FEEDBACK: Runeworks quest against Image of Baphomet is way, way, WAY too hard

I posted about this already but since there's been a patch and it's still just as hard I'm posting again. The difficulty of this fight is really beyond the pale. Baphomet has a non-telegraphed, rapid-fire attack that hits for ridiculous damage. There are WAY too many adds as well. The fight is unplayable. You need to dial this down big-time or be prepared for the screaming from the playerbase.

Actually if you aggro Baphomet and move back you can fight him alone and then clear up the adds afterwards. Still the adds will be a problem for less geared players.

gabrieldourden · January 2020

hustin1 said:

arazith07 said:
I really think that the recommended item level should be raised to at least 23k so that players are encouraged to complete other campaigns before coming to this map and have a bit more of a chance. Or if they want to start it early, to at least have friends.

I do not think the difficulty should be lowered, or to change the ratings. The ratings being the same as the dungeon will allow for less confusion and you will know what targets you should aim for. As for difficulty, it is about the same difficulty and mob density as Chult when it was first introduced, and we were able to cope just fine then.

@hustin1 The whole map is what was taken of the SH and surrounding areas on the Prime Material plane and is suspended above Avernus. We really don't go into Avernus proper until you go into the dungeon.
It's not just a question of other campaigns, really. The alt I'm testing with is 23k because she has lots of R15's and lots of legendary insignia -- easily 20M worth of upgrades. Completing all other campaigns will get you to about 18k, or 20k with a bunch of upgrades. As it stands today, a 20k will get stomped in Avernus.

The first level 80 campaign should in no way require such a jump in IL all the way up to 23k. That is grossly elitist.

I'm testing with my HR. Now that I have close to 400k HP I can manage questing around the map and even minor encounters alone, without health stones. Anyway a HR coming fresh from undermountain with maybe 250k HP will be very often obliterated as soon as it aggroes more than one group, a thing that will happen often, given the density of mobs in the map.

hustin1 · January 2020

BUG: Catapult Master achievement

I was just given the Catapult Master achievement (fire a catapult 50 times) even though I've never fired a catapult.

FEEDBACK: empty floating island

I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but there's a short gap to the north of the stronghold that you can jump with Mighty Leap. It gets you to a large, uninhabited floating earth mote (the one with the PvP tower on it).

FEEDBACK: Lliira's bell AoE

Why does Lliira's bell now have an AoE area such that we have to press it twice to activate it?

BUG: The Devils Hold lore entry

The Devils Hold lore entry talks about ruins to the west and the keep to the east, but in reality the ruins are to the north and the keep is to the south.

hustin1 · January 2020

FEEDBACK: WAY TOO MANY FLIPPING ADDS

You need to dial back the number of adds you're throwing at us in these glyphworks boss fights. Fighting a boss AND eight adds is ridiculous, and it's even MORE ridiculous when the second we clear the adds eight MORE appear. I'm rapidly beginning to hate this mod. I'm having to burn up health stone charges like mad in each and every fight which is a sure sign that they're unbalanced to hell and gone. Knock it off.

I'm testing this with a 23.6k barb and I'm getting STOMPED. What do you think the reaction will be when this goes live? There will be hell to pay.

carloswartune · January 2020

FEEDBACK: testing dummies in Vallenhas can be misleading

Enemies in Vallenhas have 35k ratings (just like the enemies in the new dungeon), but the testing dummies in the stronghold clearly have way less than that. My attacks are fully effective with just 60k armor pen on dummies, and I need 85k for them to be fully effective on the actual enemies.

I don't know if this is intended or not, but I would expect the testing dummies to have the same ratings of the zone they're in, so that damage can be properly tested.

tchefi · January 2020

hustin1 said:
FEEDBACK: WAY TOO MANY FLIPPING ADDS I'm having to burn up health stone charges like mad in each and every fight which is a sure sign that they're unbalanced to hell and gone.

That's probably the goal. As when CR mod14 was trying to dry out Scrolls of Life stockpiles with some "difficult" seemingly chaotic mechanics (especially Straad fight) or unfixed bugs : they probably want mod18 people to burn their stones of health at a more quick rate than during previous mods (unfortunate if you don't have any, or have already consumed every).

I don't necessarly see that as a bad (nor a good) thing, especially if one fight is kept manageable and winable with at most 1 charge for toons able to fend quite easily through LoMM (normally, around 24k nothing sould be really a problem but mechanics in LoMM, if your partymember are also around 24k).
Personnally, I had used maybe something like a hundred stone of health charges, total, during mod 11-12-13-14, none during mod 15-16-17, and maybe 3 charges during last week of Hellpit, that's it (fully spent one "green" stone, the "blue" stone i have make a dent in is still above 150 charges, and also still have 10 stones/greater stones of health sleeping in my bank...). Mostly, I'm fine everywhere with potions of health, even in dungeons (at least when I run with my "usual" teammates, if not, I don't spend things for strangers ^^), be it on my rogue, my fighter or my cleric (the 3 biggest toons of my roster LoMM-able).

hustin1 said:
I'm testing this with a 23.6k barb and I'm getting STOMPED. What do you think the reaction will be when this goes live? There will be hell to pay.

OR, maybe the intended goal is different : challenge you in solo, and make you want to do the campaign with a group.

If I still get recked again and again, whatever strategy i try after being outmatched at bruteforce, and as i have some limit in being mazochist, then the immediate "reaction" i will fall back to is that it is not really designed to be done solo so : "ok, let's create or find a party to do that campaign" (/g , /all, /w friendlist, /s , /z, ...), and problem will mostly be solved without the need of a stone of health.
I don't immediately jump to the conclusion "hell it's to hard, let's ask for downgrading that" : as a social animal, i'm easily able to find some support, shouldn't i try to find one or two players to do this with me ?

I don't play a MMORPG with the mindset I should play alone and solo everything. Soloing things is ok time to time, but the fundamental concept of this game genre MMORPG is, is to play together with other players. Am I wrong ?
What the point of being MMO if everyone is playing solo in parallel most of the time ?

I hope one day Cryptic will try to design a mod with a real multiplayer campaign (with quests you can't do solo, whatever your IL/power/skill is).

I tend to see the "solo trend" as quite bad for the general MMORPG atmosphere (though from a business point of view it is something I can understand : studio wants to drag in as much players as it can, even pure solo players who otherwise would stay on solo offline games), and disliked the very concept of Hellpit being solo only. Combined that "solo growing trend" with the automatic matchmaking, and we get to a generation of players who isn't really used to communicate or formed group by themselves, or too lazy to even think about it as they genuinely believe the game should provide them campaign/solo content easy enough to be soloed, and should bring other players to them when it's multiplayer/dungeon content without the need to open the mouth or write one letter in chat. (note that it isn't specific to NWO). That's quite sad honestly.

carloswartune · January 2020

tchefi#6735 said:

I hope one day Cryptic will try to design a mod with a real multiplayer campaign (with quests you can't do solo, whatever your IL/power/skill is).

I've been thinking about that too, but that would end up excluding many players from the entire campaign.

I think having delimited hard areas inside a campaign zone would be a reasonable idea, though. The quests inside those areas would be really hard/impossible to solo, requiring a group and granting some distinct advantage (i.e. campaign currency beyond the weekly cap), but casual players or players who want to play solo would be able to do the common quests and fill their weekly caps normally. By doing this, the players that are used to soloing won't feel excluded and quit the game right off the bat, and may be encouraged to form groups for the content themselves. This gradual transition would play out much better than just throwing everybody in a campaign where no solo play is possible, IMO.

Unknown · January 2020

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Official M18: Zone, Repeatable Quests and Heroic Encounters Feedback

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