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M18 Class Balance Adjustments

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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,130 Arc User

    tenetomb said:

    12 seconds?...

    Smolder ticks 4 times, once every second. The normal time would be 4 seconds, not 12. This change is just making smolder worse, not better.

    Problem is : it doesn't tick every second anymore. And dot lasts well 12 seconds.
    I don't know when it was changed. Maybe mod 16...
    It was definitely still 4 seconds in m16, since I checked it then. Likely when the directed flames rework occurred it was changed. Whatever, the defining class feature of thaum is completely useless then.
    Yeahhh tics every 3 seconds seems V E R Y S L O O O O W for the actual combat system.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • gildriadorgildriador Member Posts: 217 Arc User
    Instead of working on bug like smolder that can wait until mod 19 for a real good complete fix of the Thaumaturge path.

    Why not fixing a bug like creeping death for the Warlock that really need it more than wizard, I want to play my alt Warlock who do nothing since mod 10.5 ...
    “He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    benyr said:

    Id love to know what percentage of Barbarians, Fighters and Paladins are playing Tanks outside of content that specifies someone has to take the hit. In solo play i bet its near 0% on the two former classes.

    I play all barbie and pally solely on tank paragon. I have done all of the solo content up to and including solo runs on MEs. I have little issue damage wise running either of these. I haven't set up my fighter tank yet but have every intention to do so and will run him as tank paragon through solo content as well.

    Mainly because I'm too lazy to switch loadouts. But also because it's not hard to complete any of the solo content on tanks. Also, my barbie isn't BiS or anywhere near close to endgame. Toon has cobbled together gear and garbage enchants. It's just not hard to run almost all solo content in this game.

    With all that said, yeah there's a need for some class adjustments overall. But damage in solo content is hardly the reason for it.
  • kriti84kriti84 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Repair fireball? https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Fireball It is not adding smoldering to all target hit, just to the targeted.
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    > @quickfoot#7851 said:
    > Could Fireball become an ability that is used on a target location instead of a target enemy?
    >
    > I don't know how other wizards would feel about it, but this is my experience with it as it is now. It has a long casting time, and as a result there is a good chance the critter you are targeting gets killed before the casting time is complete, this results in the spell not being cast, and wasted time. Also, if the spell is cast and target dies, the animation continues, fb goes on cd, and I'm not 100% sure it even does damage, as most mobs are dead by then, the same thing happens with cs on tab, but it has a faster cast time and so it's not as much of a problem. With fb, you can literally try to spam it at a mob but each target keeps dying so you just stand there in this animation trying to get it off, it's annoying as all ****.




    Make it so with Repel too. It makes no sense that you can create a huge cone when on Tab, but locks on a single creature to launch to, especially if the target will definitely move away if you try to cast it from far.
  • mcfobmcfob Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    No increase to anvil of doom for fighters?
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    > @rafamarques#5700 said:
    > We have a lot of problems/questions.
    >
    > 1 - Lets supposed they balance all dps paragons (hahahaha): Why tanks PAY TAXES to be tanks but dps don’t? different to healers and tanks, a dps, by our own nature, become independent as they evolve. so... dont should be exactly the oposite?
    >
    > 2 - speaking about "wizards"...
    >
    > a) WHY THEY STILL HAVE A SOLID CROWD CONTROL IF THE ROLE "CONTROLLER" DONT EXIST? looks a outdated question, but if the scaling is aggressive like in the beggining, and you are melee (like all the others competitive paragons) scaling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your life. now a range class with crowd control and the best damage on the top? why the other classes dont sustain your primary or secundary role?
    >
    > really; you dont have any chance to have balance here or bring all the game to a resonable difficult for everbody in the same time if each one, as the same damage, dont have the same risks.


    So, you are mad that CW's have CC, but there's no CC role, so they should not do as much damage, because they are that role that does not exists?

    Just disregarding the nonsensical statings, you do know that CC is currently useless in endgame, right? And that CW's doing well only in single target, where CC is irrevelant?

    Are you playing a wizard or just trying to make the class sense from the neverwinter wiki?
  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    So, you are mad that CW's have CC, but there's no CC role, so they should not do as much damage, because they are that role that does not exists?



    Did you understand exactly the opposite: Let's suppose that the tank role no longer existed and yet fighter / barbs was just like the old conquer / destroyer, offensively and defensively...

    if the role "defender" dont exist, why you have two classes that still are able to defend satisfactorily a party against hordes of enemies? and not only that, but having the most massive damage of this game?

    that is exactly what wizards are today. they conserve in yourself a certain potential that was supposed to be reduced once the role - controller - itself was extinguished.

    what another example i have today? the role "leader"; who between the "old leaders" - paladins, fighters, dcs - are able to buff/debuff like in the past?

    "Just disregarding the nonsensical statings, you do know that CC is currently useless in endgame, right? And that CW's doing well only in single target, where CC is irrevelant?"

    useless there, useles becase bla, bla, bla... so, take away from this class, you dont agree? in the beggining of module 16 as not that useless, but ok. just... take away and lets see.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User

    rev#7881 said:

    '' my sw healer dont do enough damage", because is a healer, roll... well... roll a wizard


    Truest HAMSTER ever said, unfortunately they don't have a class re-roll, and most people don't have the time, money or patience to start all over again.


    You look at the thread and it has 9 pages of discussion while at least 8 of them are cw's bitching about nerfs, all other classes that actually need attention get lost in the middle of this HAMSTER, imagine getting a ton of nerfs and still being the best or one of the best dps classes in the game and still complain.

    Meanwhile you have
    - Fighters with long as HAMSTER cooldowns no class feature or feat to reduce them, and a HAMSTER class mechanic.
    - Warlocks that at this point should just be removed from the game, fun fact there are a lot of ''bosses'' in the game that don't even give soulsparks imagine reporting that during mod 16 beta and still not getting a HAMSTER fix, and i'm not even gonna talk about other bugs or stuff wrong with both paragons paths of the class.
    - stopped playing cleric when mod 16 dropped, hate the new divinity.
    - started playing Barbi a couple of days ago, and they should change the name of unstoppable to not so much unstoppable instead of battle rage, class features are probably the worst of all classes i played, same with feats.


    But hey give all the attention to wizards and delay rework/fix of all the classes to mod 19 in 6 MONTHS


    *EDIT not all the classes, only warlock and fighter apparently
    have you actually ever played a Wizard? no? then wtf do you know about it?!

    as far as warlock goes, they are bloody amazing, am getting top dps spot all the time with it, wizards don't event get close to me, only ranger and rogues can since they are a bit overdone and maybe you should learn to play your warlock instead of mumbeling bs here. I seen many of you in the game, absolutely clueless how to play warlock, you dont know how to pull the damage out, so stop whining and put some efford into learning how to play it ... come on dude

    so you started playing a barbi?! is it a doll or a barbique ? short for barbarian is barb you dumbass
    I actually play all classes but at this point i'm wondering what is going on on your head, why are you so mad? don't like my opinion? tough HAMSTER don't read it, i'm not making you do it, and what i say are actual facts not something that comes out of my HAMSTER like most you players that ''feel'' your class is HAMSTER, i can outdps and outheal many people on my warlock, BARBI and fighter that doesn't mean the classes are good, it just means the other players playing their classes are either lazy or don't know what they are doing.
    But hey when i was a kid i learned that people resort to insults when they can't prove their points.. and everyone is tough online, but keep at it if it makes you happy ;)

  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    @rev#7881 As far I can see, he couldn't have played wizard since mod16, maybe never, just spewing toxic sewage out of his mouth, because "those wizards that he definitely outDPS-es every, single, time" somehow dealing too much damage "too safely".

    But if his angry rant is only to get CC away from wizards, fine, let him have it. No one is going to miss it, and no one will see the difference, because it just only affects the literal mobs that just gets thrown into the meatgrinder between 2 boss battles.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    deleted
    Post edited by rev#7881 on
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    rev#7881 said:

    @rev#7881 As far I can see, he couldn't have played wizard since mod16, maybe never, just spewing toxic sewage out of his mouth, because "those wizards that he definitely outDPS-es every, single, time" somehow dealing too much damage "too safely".

    But if his angry rant is only to get CC away from wizards, fine, let him have it. No one is going to miss it, and no one will see the difference, because it just only affects the literal mobs that just gets thrown into the meatgrinder between 2 boss battles.

    I didn't want to say you are brain dead but at this point i can't, in what world are you living?... go read my first post again, i said that are a lot of classes that need more attention than the wizard and even with all the nerfs the class is still one of the best dps in the game and you started insulting because you have no arguments to counter my opinion, so when the HAMSTER did i talk about cc?

    Jesus man is really hard not to lose brain cells talking with some people
    Uhm... First, calm down, just because a post tagged you, this does not means it was talking about your comment (it was referring the person you talked with). Second, I actually messed up as you weren't talking with rafamarques, and I meant him. I mistakenly mixed them together, because... every rant sounds alike and I'm not really interested in the persons who only complain random things nonsensically. It's like a long ramble that technically different, but sounds all the same.

    I would say some actual sorry, but after your tone, you just don't deserve more than this clarification.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    -no not starting discussion, be gone now post-
    - bye bye -
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User

    rev#7881 said:

    @rev#7881 As far I can see, he couldn't have played wizard since mod16, maybe never, just spewing toxic sewage out of his mouth, because "those wizards that he definitely outDPS-es every, single, time" somehow dealing too much damage "too safely".

    But if his angry rant is only to get CC away from wizards, fine, let him have it. No one is going to miss it, and no one will see the difference, because it just only affects the literal mobs that just gets thrown into the meatgrinder between 2 boss battles.

    I didn't want to say you are brain dead but at this point i can't, in what world are you living?... go read my first post again, i said that are a lot of classes that need more attention than the wizard and even with all the nerfs the class is still one of the best dps in the game and you started insulting because you have no arguments to counter my opinion, so when the HAMSTER did i talk about cc?

    Jesus man is really hard not to lose brain cells talking with some people
    Uhm... First, calm down, just because a post tagged you, this does not means it was talking about your comment (it was referring the person you talked with). Second, I actually messed up as you weren't talking with rafamarques, and I meant him.

    I would say some actual sorry, but after your tone, you just don't deserve more than this clarification.
    you should have been clearer or maybe is because english is not my mother tongue and i read it in the wrong way and for that i apologize, i still think wizard shouldn't be their priority right now

    (About cc, it isn't relevant in most cases, but i do agree that ranged classes should do a small percentage less dmg than melee because of risk and stuff like that, but thats for another topic)

  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    rev#7881 said:

    rev#7881 said:

    @rev#7881 As far I can see, he couldn't have played wizard since mod16, maybe never, just spewing toxic sewage out of his mouth, because "those wizards that he definitely outDPS-es every, single, time" somehow dealing too much damage "too safely".

    But if his angry rant is only to get CC away from wizards, fine, let him have it. No one is going to miss it, and no one will see the difference, because it just only affects the literal mobs that just gets thrown into the meatgrinder between 2 boss battles.

    I didn't want to say you are brain dead but at this point i can't, in what world are you living?... go read my first post again, i said that are a lot of classes that need more attention than the wizard and even with all the nerfs the class is still one of the best dps in the game and you started insulting because you have no arguments to counter my opinion, so when the HAMSTER did i talk about cc?

    Jesus man is really hard not to lose brain cells talking with some people
    Uhm... First, calm down, just because a post tagged you, this does not means it was talking about your comment (it was referring the person you talked with). Second, I actually messed up as you weren't talking with rafamarques, and I meant him.

    I would say some actual sorry, but after your tone, you just don't deserve more than this clarification.
    you should have been clearer or maybe is because english is not my mother tongue and i read it in the wrong way and for that i apologize, i still think wizard shouldn't be their priority right now

    (About cc, it isn't relevant in most cases, but i do agree that ranged classes should do a small percentage less dmg than melee because of risk and stuff like that, but thats for another topic)

    Yeah, it's mostly my bad, because I wasn't focusing that much. I think that CW gets the wrong type of attention, it's slightly needs it, because the fact that ToMM's short crucial phases just mesh so well with the Arcane Empowerment's encounter spam effect kind of breaks the scales for the wizards AND it just overperforms. Kind of the worst mix for every other class. But the fact that the balance patch or fixes just does not even out the damage-over-time makes them unnecessary.

    Well, IMO the close-range should more be compensated by more defensive measures for their risk-taking and not more damage, because when the risks are getting marginalised (which almost always after you overgeared for the content) the ranged would just do less damage, period. The second issue I think that there's a ton of melee punish mechanics, but very few boss does punish ranged DPS (and in tabletop, ranged stuff had disadvantage within close range, this balanced out their utility).
  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    ... Scarecrow fallacy will not work. i will try explain REALLY slowly. hysterical attacks is not necessary here

    i dont sayed "cc, only, cause embalance to the game" but, itself, cause between classes: weird, no? letme explain AGAIN

    in the past, a destroyer dont pay nothing to be a "hibrid" between striker/defender. same for conquerer. TODAY if i choose be a defender, i cant be a dps, that means, i will lose a lot tools like encounters, class features, etc, etc AND, IF NOT ENOUGH, 10% of MY DAMAGE!!! (taxes)

    IF i choose be a dps, being a barbarian i have 0 defensive capacity; being a fighter, one of the worst damages between all the paragons.


    wizards have passed to that transition? no. "control is not important in the end game"; yes. BUT TANKS IS IMPORTANT ONLY IN THAT ENDGAME !!! healers have our own drama, but is +/- in the same boat.

    NOTE: i aways have a great revulsion for wizards, i cant deny (although I miss the meatball era) but my agenda here is not against your soy class. wizard, as a whole, personifies all that contradictions in the new style of class balance AND metas. If you overnerf this class to the ground - and i will LOVE see that happens - dont solve my problem or my main point.
    .


  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Instead of trying to balance 2 path's per class, why not throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks? Give everyone 4 paragon paths and chances are at least one of them will be viable for certain styles of play or dungeon setups.

    For example, the whole directed flames and crit conflag thing, you say it was a bug and unintended, but it worked so well I never woulda known it wasn't what the devs were trying to do! I mean, you coulda just took the win on that said it's a feature, not a bug. See what I'm saying? Throw more spaghetti, and I'm sure you'll do this for the other classes too!

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