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M18 Class Balance Adjustments

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  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User

    I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. To reiterate from the original post, this isn't a final balance pass on the game nor will it bring all dps classes as close together as we'd like. This was a quicker, less thorough and less polished set of changes in order to get some adjustments in quicker. There will continue to be other adjustments in the future.

    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    Blademaster wasn't initially in this set of adjustments as it is the path closest to Assassin already. We will add in a few minor tweaks to Blademaster for next week:

    • Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90
    • Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s
    • Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    • Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch. We will continue more balance changes in the future, especially once these ones have settled in and we have fresh data to make sure we're still tackling the biggest balance priorities first.
    I can't understand why you have damage increase mechanics for other classes and even you're buffing some of those but you penalized Hellbringer Warlock deleting the 20% damage buff from Hellfire Expertise. Other classes have more tools to get crit severity too (Barbarian, Rangers, etc) Warlock have only Devastating critical. Those magnitude increase are nothing to fix at least a little bit Warlock's damage. Give us at least a feat or something to get more crit severity and/or revert the nerf of Hellfire Expertise. Warlock DPS still the joke class in the game and we were waiting for a fix since mod 10. We want to be an optimal DPS path for any content. A lot of us can't wait for mod 19 to get a place as damage dealers.
  • tenetombtenetomb Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch.

    As long as you take time to fix bugs that prevent a good balance like broken mechanics or not working feats, i'm really happy !
  • Would like to see some dps increases for the Tank classes. I can only speak for Fighter. Some of the at-will, encounters and dailys have already been addressed in the Dreadnought path. Some suggestions

    Fighter - Vanguard

    At-Wills -

    Tide of Iron - 80 Magnitude changed to 90 Magnitude.
    Threatening Rush - 60 Magnitude changed to 75 Magnitude.

    Encounters -

    Knee Breaker - The 20 second is cool down is way too long, needs a reduction.
    Enforced Threat - This really needs to have a magnitude attached to it, the best it can do is hold threat for a few seconds which is pretty useless. Would suggest 175 magnitude.
    Linebreaker - 160 Magnitude changed to 185 Magnitude.

    Daily -

    Bladed Rampart - 250 Magnitude changed to 300 Magnitude.
    Phalanx - Far as i can tell knockdowns and knockbacks are interrupting this still, needs addressed.

    Mechanic -

    Path of the Vanguard - Increase threat generation by 5%, and reduce damage dealt by 5%, curenntly its 10%
    Retaliate - 300 Magnitude changed to 350 Magnitude.

    Feats -

    Shield Thrower - 250 Magnitude changed to 275 Magnitude.
    Rising Tide - 25 Magnitude changed to 35 Magnitude.
    Cleaving Bull - 40 Magnitude changed to 45 Magnitude.
    Shake it Off - 300 Magnitude changed to 350 Magnitude.

    Thats all I can think of for the Fighter tank off the top of my head, hope others chime in for the other tank classes.

  • nl54#3191 nl54 Member Posts: 143 Arc User

    I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. To reiterate from the original post, this isn't a final balance pass on the game nor will it bring all dps classes as close together as we'd like. This was a quicker, less thorough and less polished set of changes in order to get some adjustments in quicker. There will continue to be other adjustments in the future.

    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    Blademaster wasn't initially in this set of adjustments as it is the path closest to Assassin already. We will add in a few minor tweaks to Blademaster for next week:

    • Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90
    • Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s
    • Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    • Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch. We will continue more balance changes in the future, especially once these ones have settled in and we have fresh data to make sure we're still tackling the biggest balance priorities first.
    Brash Strike still isn't going to be used, adding magnitude isn't going to change that.

    Frenzy didn't need a mag up it was a perfectly fine power, best to look at other powers.

    No reason to do the final two, sure it'll help us deal more damage, but it doesn't help sure strike. : p I think we can all agree we don't want to use Brash Strike.

    That's what I was thinking. Practically every comment in relation to Barbarians is lamenting the pathetic single target power known as Sure Strike. They read all of that feedback and decide to buff powers that nobody was complaining about in the first place. And yeah, Brash Strike is too clunky and slow for a primary at-will. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate buffs of any form, but I'll be sticking to Relentless Slash for single target. It's ridiculous, but it is what it is for the time being.
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  • geekoxxiiigeekoxxiii Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    xavior44 said:


    Odd because I use Blades of vanquished, dark spiral charge and in my TOMM build I use hand of blight. Im one of if not the highest performing warlock on Pc at the moment. so I have to STRONGLY disagree with a lot of your reds, as they helped a lot :)

    I think this thread don't need your suppositions =)
    you don't know everyone in the server, so your attempt to enforce your thought doesn't mean nothing. (but it's funny of course LOL)

  • commanderdata002commanderdata002 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    "
    Arcanist +3%
    Blademaster +1.8%
    Warden +1.5%
    "

    CW and HR nerfed.
    Excuse me! Why is Barbarian buffed again?
    Post edited by commanderdata002 on
    stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
  • flecia#3114 flecia Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    Whisperknife:
    Impact Shot - magnitude increased to 400
    Shadow Strike - magnitude increased to 375
    Shuriken Toss - magnitude increased to 45
    Vengeance Pursuit - base magnitude increased to 150, stealthed bonus magnitude increased to 550, but also fixed issues with multi-proccing when it shouldn't have been
    Dagger Threat - maximum benefit is now 20' instead of 15'
    Gutterborn's Touch - no longer increases awareness, now increases ranged damage by 5%
    Blitz - stealthed usage no reduces encounter cooldowns by 2s


    So from a Whisperknife rogue some of this is good some does absolutely nothing for me.

    Impact Shot and VP i simply dont use and unless the change is uber i will not use them.
    Shuhriken Toss is to slow to be used so small gains are pointless.
    Gutterborn Touch i dont use so another pointless change .... though anything adding damage is not a bad thing

    Shadow Strike -- nice ++
    Dagger Threat -- nice, but has little effect 20 vs 15 can add more %damage
    Blitz stealthed -- ok but not really for most things I enter stealth and use lashing blade immediate so for common mobs uses this is ok but doesnt do enough to make a big difference overall.


    Suggestions for real improvements ....

    Shadow Strike add more stealth points (more damage added already ++)
    Return to Shadows, Dark reinbursment ...(and other "stealth gain" type skill) ... add more steatlh gain

    Advantageous Position -- add % damage in addition to CA damage ... longer CA duration

    Blitz -- more damage to the "middle" target and can decrease damage as the blades go away from middle. aka give it a little more power for single targets by adding a little more damage to the middle targeted blitz blade (the single target)

    Shadow of Demise -- give more percentage of the damage done .... OR reduce cds on lashing blade such that with the right buffs on CD reduction one can get 2 lashing blades within the SOD window)

    Lurkers Assault -- more %damage
    Increase the AP gain rate so that dailies like Lurkers can be trigger a little more.

    Thank you developers for listening and at least attempting to make some changes.
    Flecia

  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @noworries#8859 Please do not waste your time on adjusting Brash Strike, increasing from 85 to 90 magnitude will maybe make it on par with Sure Strike, which nobody should be using on single target anyways. Thank you for the other changes as they are a step in the right direction, but still only a drop in the bucket. Brash Strike or Sure Strike needs to be buffed by about 50% to be viable for single target.
    Post edited by reeper#9973 on
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    > @xavior44 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Odd because I use Blades of vanquished, dark spiral charge and in my TOMM build I use hand of blight. Im one of if not the highest performing warlock on Pc at the moment. so I have to STRONGLY disagree with a lot of your reds, as they helped a lot :)

    Lol this malebot always such a humble guy, i can name better warlocks.
    But i have to agree on this one, Powers such as dark spiral, hob, eb, vampiric do have their uses in ocasions. I have to check dreadtheft with this increment. Could be viable for a curse synergy build
  • xavior44xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User

    > @xavior44 said:

    > (Quote)

    > Odd because I use Blades of vanquished, dark spiral charge and in my TOMM build I use hand of blight. Im one of if not the highest performing warlock on Pc at the moment. so I have to STRONGLY disagree with a lot of your reds, as they helped a lot :)



    Lol this malebot always such a humble guy, i can name better warlocks.

    But i have to agree on this one, Powers such as dark spiral, hob, eb, vampiric do have their uses in ocasions. I have to check dreadtheft with this increment. Could be viable for a curse synergy build

    Please name the better warlocks, i would like to learn how to do more dps :)
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @noworries#8859

    I know you guys must want to deal with all these changes before the christmas holidays and then just focus on Mod 18 launch. Correct me if i am wrong, at minimum you have buffed every single class at least by 2-3% and just nerfed warden and arcanist. Out of all of these classes, and even among your statistics on your previous thread on scaling, arbiter was at the bottom of the list and yet it was buffed by 2-3% at max. This would have been fine if all other classes doing as bad as arbiter were buffed similar, but other classes have gotten at least twice as much buff than arbiter.

    You know very well the state of this class. I understand that you don't want to buff any class too much, but 2-3% is too small for a difficult class as arbiter. We need quality of life changes for how unforgiving mistakes are for this class. Please do consider making single target abilities to proc Sudden verdict and Perfect balance or even reduce divinity requirement. If i was to take your arbiter changes seriously, this is how i look at it. You include 2 at-will changes, one of which is never used and one of them increases damage by close to 0%. One of them is a bugfix that still doesn't increase damage and the remaining two are set of the same feat so you have to choose one or the other. In conclusion there was only 1 thing listed that acted as a buff. It felt like you wanted others to see you have worked on the class and included the rest of the changes but at some point in your statistics, arbiter was even doing worse than dreadnought. Why then this discrimination?
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @noworries#8859

    For fast buff was not bad.

    Bash strike will not be used is slower and dosent work with battle rage faster atwills .
    Frenzy was a good touch
    And battlerage buff is good, but please can we get rid of that penalty is very silly you have to chose from 2 penalty.

    You take the first feat you lose 6% now.

    You take second feat , to get battlerage you need like one week and after you can get stunned . You have made dangeons that you can't stand still or you will die so that feat is useless.

    But thanks for at least some buffs.
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  • necromanceheronecromancehero Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Why not give the Tyrant Curse a debuff of 5% target damage for the all group. Similar to Barb.
    In ToMM, this would give CW weight
  • nemesrichnemesrich Member Posts: 85 Arc User

    I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. To reiterate from the original post, this isn't a final balance pass on the game nor will it bring all dps classes as close together as we'd like. This was a quicker, less thorough and less polished set of changes in order to get some adjustments in quicker. There will continue to be other adjustments in the future.

    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    Blademaster wasn't initially in this set of adjustments as it is the path closest to Assassin already. We will add in a few minor tweaks to Blademaster for next week:

    • Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90
    • Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s
    • Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    • Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch. We will continue more balance changes in the future, especially once these ones have settled in and we have fresh data to make sure we're still tackling the biggest balance priorities first.
    What does this mean?

    Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    Nice try anyway but please buff encounters that we use.
  • drdark21#0636 drdark21 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    I thought the point of this was to issue changes - get feedback - maybe adjust changes

    Feels like we are being force fed these changes despite feedback concerns and trust me from reading thru all (yes i did) comments until now i get that you cant listen to every feedback as it is obvious not everyone is understanding or playing x class to their max potential

    It is however important to understand what the max potential build is of each class so you can buff that and not something useless or unused (until you get time to really go thru it and make it viable)

    Right now the only viable way to manage divinity and deal any kind of ST or Aoe on ARBITER is a doomsayer perfect balance build but 1% per stack on shift can only max up to 7% before its reset - also the other feat of %dmg at half divinity (if working as the tooltip says) means as you can only really burst around the 2-3rd rotation which is fine for long boss fight but awkward for Me or regular dungeon mobs - often by the time we hit that 2-3rd rotation mobs are dead (and divinity is restored outside of combat)

    Maybe include doomsayer 10% -> 15% increase so that its a more consistent increase throughout the 4 rotations

    I will save info on total class rework suggestions as it its not time for it but please consider a rotation of

    Giving changes
    Get feedback (from people that know the class and u trust)
    Readjust minor things

    Instead of just throwing stuff at us then saying try it out on preview when its going live no matter what we think
  • quasar#2578 quasar Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    stop nerfing class too much.instead buff renew some feats of low dps class.. buff their aoe skills if you want them superior in aoe dps or buff their single target but poor in aoe..
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    @noworries#8859



    Maybe include doomsayer 10% -> 15% increase so that its a more consistent increase throughout the 4 rotations



    @noworries#8859 @asterdahl

    I am sorry for bothering you and this may be long but i feel as if the changes made to the arbiter class are made by people who do not understand exactly how the class works. That is why i linked asterdahl as he is the creator of this class. Right now as it stands, arbiter doesn't need any damage buff "Theoratically" that is, and eventhough this change has given us the damage buff, it doesn't solve the underlying issue.

    From all my testing on dummies, arbiter is actually close or a little above in damage than an assassin. Now this might come as a shock to you guys and i also think that noworries took my comment too literally about arbiter being on par with rangers. Then why is this not being reflected in the pain giver charts, you may ask yourselves?

    The way this class works is that you have to consider divinity as part of your damage thus any source of divinity equals damage. Lets focus on single target damage for arbiter for now. Currently, perfect balance (PB), sudden verdict (SV) are core parts of your build.

    Lets say i am on my last stack of PB and i proc PB when i have lets say 100 divinity left, that would mean i have literally lost 225magnitude. This number comes from daunting light ST damage of 450 / 2 because it costs 200 divinity. Alternatively, consider i am at-willing and plus using SV pips to regen divinity and i am constantly procing PB with some divinity left. This therefore will be a constant source of dps loss in dungeons where i have to dodge and do multiple tasks at once and i don't think any arbiter can fully optimise his or her dps by using divinity to 0 at all times.

    Moving onto, If lets say during battle i was to tab SV proc on my 4th stack of PB and i just proc'd PB, i automatically just lost 600magnitude! If lets say during conflagrate i press tab earlier and cancel the at will, i just lost 300mag. Now assume i generate 3 radiant pips from confla and i just used Forge,aster's flame and i get a SV proc, i just lost 400magnitude ORR instead of using Forgemaster's flame, I at the heat of battle, just used lance of faith, and so i just lost 270magnitude. If lets say i didn't alternate radiant and fire stacks and lost my PB stacks on my 3rd stack and therefore literally had no divinity left, i lost 1000 divinity = 1330 magnitude + ( 3 stacks = 5100magnitude) = 6430magnitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Some of these are unavoidable in certain situations and some you can, but even being an arbiter main only, i make all of the above mistakes if not as often as others.

    In TOMM if i die i lose all of my PB stacks and depending on how many stacks i lose and how much divinity i have left, that is the amount of dps i have lost. Similarly, in TOMM you are always in combat so i am not benefiting from our general feature "Divine mediation" and to restore divinity i would have to keep hold of tab. Only the skill ceiling arbiters actually know how important this feature is for your dps. Include the fact that whilst all other classes have 3 or 4 abilities that are on cooldown whilst halaster is doing cutscenes i.e. Disintegration wave, an arbiter has only 1 ability on cooldown and holding tab to regen divinity long enough is impossible with all the mechanics involved. Consider then that gear is also against us, every single BiS gear gives AP gain and or requires the number of hits to do more damage. Actually, if you look at a good to bad wizards, you'll almost always will see that the good wizards will do more hits per second than the other. Right now, we are not able to full optimise owlbearl, tenebrous, ebony stacks on the chest and all the ap gain artifacts, overloads or even gear that reduces your cooldowns as we always only have 1 ability on CD. I hope you understand how disfavoring end game gear, dungeons and even the current dps changes are to arbiter.



    So what do i purpose after blabbing so much?

    1) Why is BTS able to proc SV and not our dailies? Why limit this to our encounters because our ST dailies are nothing special and also have high cast times. They are 5% or less than our damage, well at least for me they are.

    2)Why is prophet of DOOM not given any pip so it is unable to proc SV or PB?

    3) In addition, to make this class more forgiving and at the same time, difficult to master, you can make us not lose our PB stacks when we die. The Divine Mediation should give us some bonus during combat OR alternatively, channel divinity could give us more boost to divinity when we use it during combat.

    Other than that, the class is very clunky, like for example how slow the pips are generated and perfect balance procs after a slight delay. However, i don't ask for such changes because it would require a lot of manpower. But the above changes are actually quality of life changes, more so than pure damage.

    Do i want you to change all of the above?

    I mean, who am I? I get asked a lot about arbiter's high magnitudes and many people throw theoretical numbers on my face, stating my class is better than theirs' in dps. I am obviously NOT going to lecture them and I just agree to it. But this time, this change is for balance sake and i am actually telling you that this class is different on a dummy to a real dungeon and no other class would probably have as much disparity between its dummy dps and real dungeon dps as arbiter. If you do not consider this change, you're going to keep seeing arbiter do bad in your statistics. What you see as theoretical numbers for arbiter is not what arbiter does in dungeons/trials and you just need to look at TOMM statistics for it. I just wanted to explain this to you and have a nice weekend.
    Post edited by sobi#1980 on
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    A few comments about the Hunter changes:

    First of all, I fully understand that this is not a real balance pass but only a quick patch to reduce issues.

    Disruptive Shot - magnitude increaed to 300: good! This is a bread and butter power for an Hunter and is the go-to option so an improvement is good.

    More than Disruptive - now increases your ranged damage by 10% for 5 sec: excellent.

    Slasher's Expertise - now increases your melee damage by 10% for 10 sec: Slasher's Mark won't be used anyway so this doesn't help.

    Longstrider's Shot - magnitude increased to 525: good. But is still miss the old buff and the run in/run out style that it generated. Bring back some buff for the player only

    Gushing Wound - magnitude and DoT magnitude increased to 300. Good, but the power is still very difficult to aim and place.

    Aspect of the Falcon
    - now grants a 10% damage bonus. Good: most hunters will focus on ranged

    Thorned Roots - increased magnitude against control immune targets to 150: Good

    Hawk Shot - magnitude increased to 210: nobody will use Hawk Shot as it is. If the magnitude was higher then it could be interesting for a single target loadout, but like this it is not.

    Prey (from Predator) - now increases ranged damage by 10%; good for a single target loadout.

    Biting Snare
    - can now occur every 15 seconds instead of 20: good. More AP synergize with Disruptive and all the buffs you can get from it

    So in general I can say that I saw some steps in the right direction. What is still missing? I have two suggestions:

    1) Improve Forestbond % cooldown reduction: this will fix the rotation issues this path still has. 10% will probably be the right level to give the rotation a decent flow.

    2) Bring Binding Arrow to the Hunter: as of today no Warden is using Binding Arrow as it doesn't work properly with any Warden setup. The Hunter will be able to use it better as it has feats related to Grasping Roots and because Oak Skin will work well with a Ranged/Support style that fits a ranged Hunter.
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,130 Arc User

    I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. To reiterate from the original post, this isn't a final balance pass on the game nor will it bring all dps classes as close together as we'd like. This was a quicker, less thorough and less polished set of changes in order to get some adjustments in quicker. There will continue to be other adjustments in the future.

    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    Blademaster wasn't initially in this set of adjustments as it is the path closest to Assassin already. We will add in a few minor tweaks to Blademaster for next week:

    • Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90
    • Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s
    • Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    • Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch. We will continue more balance changes in the future, especially once these ones have settled in and we have fresh data to make sure we're still tackling the biggest balance priorities first.
    Thank you. I hope that bugfixes that are your priority include Wizard bugs :D. In both paths
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  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User

    Why not give the Tyrant Curse a debuff of 5% target damage for the all group. Similar to Barb.
    In ToMM, this would give CW weight

    Why not stop with that support thinking? A debuff is ok on SoulWeaver but as Hellbringer all i want to do is DAMAGE, not being the debuff/support slave for the new top DPS class like the old Templock trash. It's that hard to understand that if we are DPS we want to do damage? Or should Warlock stay as the impotent class of the game for ages meanwhile all other classes can have their mod of shining as DPS?
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    giz#2086 said:

    Why not give the Tyrant Curse a debuff of 5% target damage for the all group. Similar to Barb.
    In ToMM, this would give CW weight

    Why not stop with that support thinking? A debuff is ok on SoulWeaver but as Hellbringer all i want to do is DAMAGE, not being the debuff/support slave for the new top DPS class like the old Templock trash. It's that hard to understand that if we are DPS we want to do damage? Or should Warlock stay as the impotent class of the game for ages meanwhile all other classes can have their mod of shining as DPS?
    Well, Templock was not trash. I solo'ed most dungeons in the game as a Templock and it was a great heal+support path. Anyway, I agre with you that that should be the Soulweaver role.
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  • claudiodnclaudiodn Member Posts: 17 Arc User



    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    TR needs gameplay adjustments, it's too boring, simple, raw. Feats don't give you freedom of choice, all TRs use the same feats. I can't understand how you think this is a "target" for all classes.
    Improve the gameplay of TR too...
    I'm not asking for buffs, I'm asking for improvements on TR assassin feats.

  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 981 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    > @ironcuttingsword#1719 said:
    > Would like to see some dps increases for the Tank classes. I can only speak for Fighter. Some of the at-will, encounters and dailys have already been addressed in the Dreadnought path. Some suggestions
    >
    > Fighter - Vanguard
    >
    > At-Wills -
    >
    > Tide of Iron - 80 Magnitude changed to 90 Magnitude.
    > Threatening Rush - 60 Magnitude changed to 75 Magnitude.
    >
    > Encounters -
    >
    > Knee Breaker - The 20 second is cool down is way too long, needs a reduction.
    > Enforced Threat - This really needs to have a magnitude attached to it, the best it can do is hold threat for a few seconds which is pretty useless. Would suggest 175 magnitude.
    > Linebreaker - 160 Magnitude changed to 185 Magnitude.
    >
    > Daily -
    >
    > Bladed Rampart - 250 Magnitude changed to 300 Magnitude.
    > Phalanx - Far as i can tell knockdowns and knockbacks are interrupting this still, needs addressed.
    >
    > Mechanic -
    >
    > Path of the Vanguard - Increase threat generation by 5%, and reduce damage dealt by 5%, curenntly its 10%
    > Retaliate - 300 Magnitude changed to 350 Magnitude.
    >
    > Feats -
    >
    > Shield Thrower - 250 Magnitude changed to 275 Magnitude.
    > Rising Tide - 25 Magnitude changed to 35 Magnitude.
    > Cleaving Bull - 40 Magnitude changed to 45 Magnitude.
    > Shake it Off - 300 Magnitude changed to 350 Magnitude.
    >
    > Thats all I can think of for the Fighter tank off the top of my head, hope others chime in for the other tank classes.

    I really don't understand why you are asking for this. If anything, the vanguard's damage should be toned* down...
    Post edited by wilbur626 on
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  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    This is my opinion regarding the future changes on barbarian dps path.

    Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90 - Buffing Brash Strike won't make any difference in his cooldown. It takes time to cast (0.8 sec) and even in battlerage the animation is clumsy and there are many chances to actually fail the attack because of knockbacks and takedowns.
    Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s - this is pretty useless buff. 0.4 seconds and a 50 magnitude increase won't make a big difference on single target if the target (boss) moves and you fail the cast. So in most of the cases I would stick with other skills that allows me to maintain a close range of attack.
    Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    So we get a roughly 4% increse on the Battlerage with is a buff and I do like it since seems fair buff in my opinion.

    There are a few things I would have liked to have seen:

    -Reduce the brash strike casting time to 0.5 sec - decrease the magnitude to 75
    -Bounding Slam - An increase of it's magnitude to 50 would bring this skill more in line with the other at wills and make it relevant for different combinations since 30 magnitude for 0.6 cast time is too low in my opinion.
    -Increase the magnitude of Sure Strike from 45 to 65
    -Mighty Leap - decrease the casting time to 14s.
    -Hidden Daggers - I was in love with this x3 casting skill. Why you just don't keep the x3 cast, remove the bonus 200 damage and the 200 magnitude buff and add a 2 second dazing effect after the third strike. Those changes would make it more usable and enjoyable in aoe case making it more relevant. (100 magnitude for each strike and for x3 would be 300 magnitude damage and 2 second daze effect)
    -Axestorm encounter - I would love to have a knockback effect on this skill and maybe a 50 magnitude increase to it due the fact that I can strike just in 10' radius and I would probably like to use it in a certain situations clearing aoe.

    My perspective about these changes is to bring all the encounters and at wills more in line and make approachable combinations in certain situations.
    I would love to hear other opinions on this proposal.








    Post edited by the1truehunter on
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    I would also want to mention the fact that statistics won't show you the true about how things should make the game experience better for the users. In many cases the statistics will show you the part where people are forced to use certain rotations, skills, feats and not necessary a self made happy choice because of the actual structure and this is not too relevant to the situations where we would like to use certain skills/feats/encounter rotations but we can't due to this problem.
    Choosing a certain class should given a certain look and feel of its role, not a gap in performance. This is the result of a different approach regarding characters architecture. If I play a Warlock dps should have the same buffs as a barbarian dps. If the skills are intended to cast different you should ensure that they do the same damage, just in a different way. And you guys should truly check how things are backed by your development team since there are many things that are not made properly like the set bonuses even from the new module coming. I do really understand you and the fact that is not an easy job to manage a whole game and please everyone but let's work together to be satisfied for both sides.
  • djsxedjsxe Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Barbarian should have 2 offenses & 2 defenses slot, they are dps or tank, not just tank. Even DC have 2 offenses slot, really...
    Once again barbarian get no serious love, i hope they change this before mod 18 release.
  • nemesrichnemesrich Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited December 2019


    -Mightyer Leap (Feat) - instead of jumping like a frog 2 times to actually get the buff, and then fail the cast because of the enemy movement or due the fact that there is not enough radius to actually hit aoe with this skill, remove the second movement and give a straight buff to radius Radius from 12' to at maybe 20' and the the magnitude damage bring to 450 instead of 600.

    NO PLEASE NO.

    This is the best feat, gives you a lot more mobility, damage, 2 jumps=half Rage meter
    It seems you don't know how to use it: when Rage is over and you are no longer protected form stunt etc, you just jump away then jump back (deal 600 damage (sweet) and Rage is half again and you can use it again.

    If they change this feat that makes Barbarian playable I gonna quit this game and no more money from me.
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    nemesrich said:


    -Mightyer Leap (Feat) - instead of jumping like a frog 2 times to actually get the buff, and then fail the cast because of the enemy movement or due the fact that there is not enough radius to actually hit aoe with this skill, remove the second movement and give a straight buff to radius Radius from 12' to at maybe 20' and the the magnitude damage bring to 450 instead of 600.

    NO PLEASE NO.

    This is the best feat, gives you a lot more mobility, damage, 2 jumps=half Rage meter
    It seems you don't know how to use it: when Rage is over and you are no longer protected form stunt etc, you just jump away then jump back (deal 600 damage (sweet) and Rage is half again and you can use it again.

    If they change this feat that makes Barbarian playable I gonna quit this game and no more money from me.
    Check now and let me know what you think.
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