TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
While I would prefer the shorter waiting time on tank or heal characters, I refrain from joining RQ with one of those. My "pearls of wisdom": You cant heal oneshots or stupidity. Without one decent DPS in your group, you are set up to fail. Thats why I prefer to run RQs with my DPS chars.
Most RQ players suck. Why? Heal DC with one dmg at will 2nd in paingiver. DPS char did more dmg, then the rest combined, up to 20x the dps of 2nd place. Keep in mind, that my chars neither have BIS gear, nor am I an exeptional good player.
IL is way to low for all RQs. without someone carrying a low IL group, it will fail. While I dont mind the fact, that these players que up with min IL, I hate this entitelement.
Go AFK for a while, dont participate, do what you want, complain, if the one well geared char in your group cant solo the dungeon. It is just a game and everybody else is there to entertain you. Really, believe me. Your mom was right, you are a prince/ princess/ royalty of undetermined gender. I dont mind, if I have to waste 30 minutes in a dungeon, that I have cleared solo in 15 minutes. Sarcasm off.
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
Shield, healing potions (not healing stones, just regular potions are ok), some mount insignas bonuses procing healings (Champion's Return ? Oppressor's Reprieve ? Survivor's Gift ? Victim's Preservation ?), and... movement because some of the telegraphed attacks of demogorgon are avoidable ?
I don't know... i play a GF (not my main, but still 23k nowdays) and have never fallen against demogorgon even if the healers let me all alone... (except at the very beginning of mod16, after eDemo was available again and I was still on his mod14-15 build trying to figure out how to play my toon again and get some new automatisms and insights on how to rebuild).
I would up the RAD for dungeons individually to give an incentive for people to try out dungeons before they RQ. I get what you mean @callumf#9018 but I really don't see how you need even MORE Rad for RTQ when it is already nearly (or around, depends) half of the daily cap. I would rather people run it more often to learn it than run it once a day. The way it is now, I don't see stuff called aside of rtq and redq. In M15, when content was also bad (especially dungeon/skirm-wise) there was far more calling of tong, codg, fbi, n/e/demo and tia than there are now for all of them together, or even lomm. Now, you get your daily cap thrown at you for doing 2 queues + Mes. Why learn anything when you can just wait to finish RTQ, no matter the set up? If it fails, wait until somebody else tries to abandon instance, queue again, get edemo or sva.
I would UP the rAD reward for RTQ and Epic Random DUngeon to encourage more active participation/learning.
If your toon has 30K bonus RAD, you end up with over 90K RAD in one RTQ run. Lots of incentives for people to queue up trashy invoke toons to get carried. Or worst, just AFK in eDemo because there is no kick.
I would UP the rAD reward for RTQ and Epic Random DUngeon to encourage more active participation/learning.
.....you can't be serious?
The AD rewards from randoms need to be decreased, not increased. What would encourage active participation is removing the stupidity that is 4 hour wait time for abandon/vote kick votes. The more people get kicked for not performing the better.
But that would make randoms more toxic - good. Maybe if no one wants to play randoms with you the problem is your character and your play style and not those meanies on the internets. Back in the day of constant vote kicking i never saw anyone AFK or leech and barely anyone griefing, nowadays you see it constantly.
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
My 24k GF Tank 5 minutes alone in the instance versus Demogorgon and my 3 clones that give him combat advantage versus me. No consumables, artifacts or dailies used. Full AoE aggro encounter set up that i would use in a normal RTQ run and no defensive skills anywhere to be seen.
Same thing can be done with significantly less item level and gear so don't even bring it up. I've barely played my Tank in the last 2 months and did this 4 times in a row without taking any damage to my HP.
Has it not been already established that excuses don't actually make you a better player?
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
My 24k GF Tank 5 minutes alone in the instance versus Demogorgon and my 3 clones that give him combat advantage versus me. No consumables, artifacts or dailies used. Full AoE aggro encounter set up that i would use in a normal RTQ run and no defensive skills anywhere to be seen.
Same thing can be done with significantly less item level and gear so don't even bring it up. I've barely played my Tank in the last 2 months and did this 4 times in a row without taking any damage to my HP.
Has it not been already established that excuses don't actually make you a better player?
Respect - asked you to show stats and build and you do! Nice one thank you
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
My 24k GF Tank 5 minutes alone in the instance versus Demogorgon and my 3 clones that give him combat advantage versus me. No consumables, artifacts or dailies used. Full AoE aggro encounter set up that i would use in a normal RTQ run and no defensive skills anywhere to be seen.
Same thing can be done with significantly less item level and gear so don't even bring it up. I've barely played my Tank in the last 2 months and did this 4 times in a row without taking any damage to my HP.
Has it not been already established that excuses don't actually make you a better player?
While you have a viable tank, self heal build for GF, you do know, that you have near to 600k HP, selfheal insignia boons and might have companions with similar effects. The selfheal of GF was and is fighters recovery. This is neither a 'normal' RQ tank nor is it compareable with a RQ run, when Bbb and his friends open every portal available, get killed and the trash ends up with the tank.
The 'normal' RQ tank I see has ca. 300k HP, neither undermountain artifacts, nor undermountain artifact sets.
While selfheal might be the pragmatic build for a RQ group, I went for Gladiators Guile and Artificers Persuation on my tank build, bc I went for run speed, stamina regen and CD reduction. It might not be ideal for RQ runs, but I did just fine in TOO x5 runs. I did not say, that I died, but that it sucks, even on my GF which is, compared to most RQ participants, better geared.
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
Shield, healing potions (not healing stones, just regular potions are ok), some mount insignas bonuses procing healings (Champion's Return ? Oppressor's Reprieve ? Survivor's Gift ? Victim's Preservation ?), and... movement because some of the telegraphed attacks of demogorgon are avoidable ?
I don't know... i play a GF (not my main, but still 23k nowdays) and have never fallen against demogorgon even if the healers let me all alone... (except at the very beginning of mod16, after eDemo was available again and I was still on his mod14-15 build trying to figure out how to play my toon again and get some new automatisms and insights on how to rebuild).
TBH, on a GF tank without heal, it is difficult to survive. I have a GF, tank build, tank gear, 23k IL and it still sucks, bc you cant heal yourself fighting Demigorgon.
Shield, healing potions (not healing stones, just regular potions are ok), some mount insignas bonuses procing healings (Champion's Return ? Oppressor's Reprieve ? Survivor's Gift ? Victim's Preservation ?), and... movement because some of the telegraphed attacks of demogorgon are avoidable ?
I don't know... i play a GF (not my main, but still 23k nowdays) and have never fallen against demogorgon even if the healers let me all alone... (except at the very beginning of mod16, after eDemo was available again and I was still on his mod14-15 build trying to figure out how to play my toon again and get some new automatisms and insights on how to rebuild).
I think my brain is collapsing in on itself, the stupidity in this thread finally broke me.
To anyone who plans to continue complaining in this thread or others i have just this to say:
You can have excuses or you can have results, pick one.
Sadly, it seems, that here was not much to implode. Pad yourself on the back. Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss? how is making not 1 but 2 different videos showing exactly how you can tank Demo with little or no help not helping or ignorant. I cant verify due to the video being removed now but I am pretty sure that during that last video that old timer never once came close to being at 50% health so the previous comments about him having double the hp is a useless comment.
Considering the original post in this thread was about tanks being killed by "Demo's attacks" the ignorant comment in this thread is yours for discounting his entire contribution to showing how to tank this correctly with the comment of but you have this and this and I dont,
The build itself is largely irrelevant in this. it is all about managing the actual aggro and only taking the hits that you need to. If you watched the video he doesn't tank every hit and instead moves out of the way of most red zones. This is the problem that most bad tanks have, they just take everything to the face and wonder why they die.
I don't see how edemo is part of the leveling process.
The whole change was made as such that players get catch up gear, and practically skip the need to do the older stuff. Which is now called legacy campaigns.
Any gear from Vistani to Underdark will shoot the player up to much higher than 14k.
Tanking demo takes only pressing shift an some semi not random intervals, and yet most of the time what I've seen on tanks with issue there, is a tank running around like a headless chicken or with half health or both, but with full stamina.
Now, I'm not a tanking expert, but wouldn't having full stamina and not pressing that button that uses stamina instead of HP is kinda counter productive to a tank?!
I'm not wasting full divinity in scaled content where heals are scaled to babysit this, rather just smite stuff to oblivion to end it faster.
There are no wipes there, die, release, go back in. So how the hell content from years ago, which is trivial as is, that you can go back inside as many times as you want, need to be made easier!?
Lets call it learning opportunity for a tank to tank properly. Hold aggro, pull the boss where needed, and not die to something a dps can facetank. And if they fail, no penalty, just try again.
"Any gear from Vistani to Underdark will shoot the player up to much higher than 14k."
Screenshots or it didn't happen...
Oh, and don't forget to include Boons, Companions, and Mounts...
My recruitment alt with 0 boons had 14k after the Undermountain starting quest with 2 9 and 1 10 bonding with the broom mount. (Meaning: Neverembers UM starting free chest) WITH maxed guild boons. So... No.
My pov in general: Edemo is only a problem if you are running your alts with complete noobs. Then it can be, I reckon. I even had failed runs like this, too. But that's not edemo at fault, the fault is throwing everything at new players and expecting that this is the way they get to learn stuff. It can't work with ppl that try to run edemo for the first time and don't even try to follow more exp players or read the chat (every edemo I pug nowadays is full of "only purple portals" or "don't drag the mobs to tank") but they don't listen. Edemo is good as it is. Don't make the game easier or the gap will just increase. If you don't learn what a red area is in edemo, how will you ever run something else?
Agreed, the problem is not with edemo per se, it is the removal of ndemo 'normal' Demogorgon that now leaves the noobs with no easier version in which to learn what they need to know to be properly prepared for the higher difficulty of the epic version. Not to mention the fact that the NPCs in Maze Engine *still* tell you to go do Demogorgon to obtain certain currencies.
Stop breaking the existing content by removing skirmishes and dungeons. You already have buyouts for the impatient, let the patient players enjoy what once was.
Comments
While I would prefer the shorter waiting time on tank or heal characters, I refrain from joining RQ with one of those. My "pearls of wisdom": You cant heal oneshots or stupidity. Without one decent DPS in your group, you are set up to fail. Thats why I prefer to run RQs with my DPS chars.
Most RQ players suck. Why? Heal DC with one dmg at will 2nd in paingiver. DPS char did more dmg, then the rest combined, up to 20x the dps of 2nd place. Keep in mind, that my chars neither have BIS gear, nor am I an exeptional good player.
IL is way to low for all RQs. without someone carrying a low IL group, it will fail. While I dont mind the fact, that these players que up with min IL, I hate this entitelement.
Go AFK for a while, dont participate, do what you want, complain, if the one well geared char in your group cant solo the dungeon. It is just a game and everybody else is there to entertain you. Really, believe me. Your mom was right, you are a prince/ princess/ royalty of undetermined gender. I dont mind, if I have to waste 30 minutes in a dungeon, that I have cleared solo in 15 minutes. Sarcasm off.
I don't know... i play a GF (not my main, but still 23k nowdays) and have never fallen against demogorgon even if the healers let me all alone... (except at the very beginning of mod16, after eDemo was available again and I was still on his mod14-15 build trying to figure out how to play my toon again and get some new automatisms and insights on how to rebuild).
Quite agree with the rest of your post
I counted 9.
But s/he insisted that as his party had 1 healer, 1 "fake" DPS, another DPS and him/herself as a tank, his/her group only consisted of 2.
I could understand the point, but we wasted more time trying to convince them than it would have taken to find out we were going to fail.
ALL the RTQs are doable with a team of players who are prepared to listen and give it their best shot.
ALL the fails come from a lack of experience and unwillingness to listen or learn.
I would UP the rAD reward for RTQ and Epic Random DUngeon to encourage more active participation/learning.
Now, you get your daily cap thrown at you for doing 2 queues + Mes. Why learn anything when you can just wait to finish RTQ, no matter the set up? If it fails, wait until somebody else tries to abandon instance, queue again, get edemo or sva.
The AD rewards from randoms need to be decreased, not increased. What would encourage active participation is removing the stupidity that is 4 hour wait time for abandon/vote kick votes. The more people get kicked for not performing the better.
But that would make randoms more toxic - good. Maybe if no one wants to play randoms with you the problem is your character and your play style and not those meanies on the internets. Back in the day of constant vote kicking i never saw anyone AFK or leech and barely anyone griefing, nowadays you see it constantly.
My 24k GF Tank 5 minutes alone in the instance versus Demogorgon and my 3 clones that give him combat advantage versus me. No consumables, artifacts or dailies used. Full AoE aggro encounter set up that i would use in a normal RTQ run and no defensive skills anywhere to be seen.
Same thing can be done with significantly less item level and gear so don't even bring it up. I've barely played my Tank in the last 2 months and did this 4 times in a row without taking any damage to my HP.
Has it not been already established that excuses don't actually make you a better player?
The 'normal' RQ tank I see has ca. 300k HP, neither undermountain artifacts, nor undermountain artifact sets.
While selfheal might be the pragmatic build for a RQ group, I went for Gladiators Guile and Artificers Persuation on my tank build, bc I went for run speed, stamina regen and CD reduction. It might not be ideal for RQ runs, but I did just fine in TOO x5 runs. I did not say, that I died, but that it sucks, even on my GF which is, compared to most RQ participants, better geared.
To anyone who plans to continue complaining in this thread or others i have just this to say:
You can have excuses or you can have results, pick one.
This is someone trying to help. Sadly, it seems, that here was not much to implode. Pad yourself on the back. Ignorance is bliss.
Considering the original post in this thread was about tanks being killed by "Demo's attacks" the ignorant comment in this thread is yours for discounting his entire contribution to showing how to tank this correctly with the comment of but you have this and this and I dont,
The build itself is largely irrelevant in this. it is all about managing the actual aggro and only taking the hits that you need to. If you watched the video he doesn't tank every hit and instead moves out of the way of most red zones. This is the problem that most bad tanks have, they just take everything to the face and wonder why they die.
It's not "hard eDemo". It's not non-BiS build. It's the lack of common sense to put up a shield before you get smacked or sidestep a red circle.
Stop breaking the existing content by removing skirmishes and dungeons. You already have buyouts for the impatient, let the patient players enjoy what once was.