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ToMM rings pvp equivalents.

jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
edited August 2019 in PvP Discussion
Right now, the rings dropping from ToMM are of zero use to the people capable of beating ToMM, beyond bragging rights. For the pvp, I hesitate to call them a crowd lol, they would be extremely useful. However no-one in their right mind is going to pay 40 million AD for one.

Be nice if there were pvp-versions - ie. Only equipable in pvp - of the rings and weapons that could be won through glory, 50k a pop like the artifacts.

Just throwing it out there. Dunno about the rest of the long-term pvpers on pc, but it's long been a giant source of irritation that often the best gear in the game is generally out of reach for anyone who's invested more in a pvp build than pve.
No idea what my toon is now.
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Comments

  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Right now, the rings dropping from ToMM are of zero use to the people capable of beating ToMM, beyond bragging rights. For the pvp, I hesitate to call them a crowd lol, they would be extremely useful. However no-one in their right mind is going to pay 40 million AD for one.

    Be nice if there were pvp-versions - ie. Only equipable in pvp - of the rings and weapons that could be won through glory, 50k a pop like the artifacts.

    Just throwing it out there. Dunno about the rest of the long-term pvpers on pc, but it's long been a giant source of irritation that often the best gear in the game is generally out of reach for anyone who's invested more in a pvp build than pve.

    Hey, pssst want to buy a ring:

  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Agree. Forcing pvp players to play pve in order to get bis (or really any reasonable) gear or make AD is absurd. Just as forcing pve players to play pvp would be. When pve offers the best gear for both pve and pvp, ways to make AD and progress in campaigns while pvp has none of this, something is wrong.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    gweddry said:

    Agree. Forcing pvp players to play pve in order to get bis (or really any reasonable) gear or make AD is absurd. Just as forcing pve players to play pvp would be. When pve offers the best gear for both pve and pvp, ways to make AD and progress in campaigns while pvp has none of this, something is wrong.

    no it's not because there aren't more than 50 players in the whole game who pvp lol. making content directly for people who pvp only would be negative salary for the devs.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Fireside, it would take very little time to a) make a pvp variant - the code already exists for the items that change lvl/stats in pve->pvp and b) add the items to a store in trade of blades.

    You don't like pvp. I get that. You don't need to spam it in every thread that has the word pvp in it somewhere.

    Fab. Well done to you and your guys for finishing ToMM. I watched your youtube vid. Then I crept into a corner with my teddy and cried for half an hour.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    gweddry said:

    Agree. Forcing pvp players to play pve in order to get bis (or really any reasonable) gear or make AD is absurd. Just as forcing pve players to play pvp would be. When pve offers the best gear for both pve and pvp, ways to make AD and progress in campaigns while pvp has none of this, something is wrong.

    no it's not because there aren't more than 50 players in the whole game who pvp lol. making content directly for people who pvp only would be negative salary for the devs.
    Wanna bet that there are more pvp players (and pvp capable ones )spread across all platforms then there are pve players that can currently finish the current end game dungeon with 24000k item level and max pay to win gear. the devs salary is also reliant on/ creating that no ? ?

    why make and end game dungeon that so few can finish why cater to them ?(using your logic right back at you)...(makes up some other random number off the top of my head )

    so there is only 50 (2 pages of pvp players 25 per page ) listed in all of xbox ? and that is the sum of all your knowledge on how you count the pvp player population? enlighten us on your secrets for metrics . you must have some behind the season access to data just like the devs. I am in awe sir *bows down * you must be better at interpreting data and metrics then the devs ..they should hire you at head office and see profits soar
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    PvP players are 50-ish atm also because there was too much PvE grind to get BiS gear.
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    You can wait until they get cheap
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User

    You can wait until they get cheap

    The Trial has only been out a few days now, so this is kind of the peak of the price for these things. Give it a month and they will be on the AH for a fraction of the current cost.
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    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Even a fraction of 10 million is erm, quite large lol.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User
    ramesh84 said:

    PvP players are 50-ish atm also because there was too much PvE grind to get BiS gear.

    This is an excellent remark. While most people (especially those that hate PVP) keep saying PVP is dead because of toxicity, premade abuse and what not, this is a far more important factor. More and more bis gear pieces became obtainable only through PVE, up to the point where the entirety of a bis PVP setup had to be gained by grinding PVE. Add the need for higher rank enchantments which you had to grind for -- again, only possible by playing PVE content.

    One of the worst things to happen to PVP were strongholds with, at the time, extremely powerful boons (and items). Since the PVP community consisted mostly of smaller guilds, the astronomical amount of PVE grinding needed to max out a guild destroyed a large amount of the community outright.

    So for those that love to complain about changes supposedly made for PVP (there has been a lot of heat arounds this with the release of M17), this is something to think about.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    gweddry said:

    ramesh84 said:

    PvP players are 50-ish atm also because there was too much PvE grind to get BiS gear.

    This is an excellent remark. While most people (especially those that hate PVP) keep saying PVP is dead because of toxicity, premade abuse and what not, this is a far more important factor. More and more bis gear pieces became obtainable only through PVE, up to the point where the entirety of a bis PVP setup had to be gained by grinding PVE. Add the need for higher rank enchantments which you had to grind for -- again, only possible by playing PVE content.
    There is a bit of a chicken and egg problem here ... back when we had tenacity gear you needed to PvP (and PvP alot) to get the gear you needed to PvP. So new players coming in using their PvE gear got kicked because they could not contribute to thier team. Hence .... if you had no PvP gear you really had no way to get it. So to try to bring in more PvEers, the devs removed the tenacity stat and the PvP gear just became gear with slightly different bonuses. Hence now, if you want BiS gear for anything, you need to get most of it from PvE .... the alternative is to never have any new blood in PvP and watch it die slowly.
    PandorasMisfits_Logo_175_zpskpytcqxc.png
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Not entirely, there were so-so interim sets you could buy early on before you got down to the grind for profound or whatever the armor of the day was at the time.

    It was more people who were obviously straight pve types - armor and stats balanced solely for pve, using pve rotations - who were queuing for the rad ad, that were liable to get kicked back in those times. Even then though, someone would usually try to give them tips before hand, and kick if they either didn't reply or sat in spawn.

    The thing that would prompt a kick would more be a player who demonstrated no actual investment in, nor intention to follow or learn the "pvp ethos" lol. Just as obvious pvp players, pvp gear, no augumemt pet, would be kicked out of for example tiamat groups back in the early mods. Both communities can be unforgiving, and rightfully so.

    Basically the principle disconnect has always been that a straight pve player has the option of completely ignoring pvp without any penalty to their gear progression or progress through the game, whereas a straight pvp player, as I was for years in the past, could never afford to opt out of pve.
    Post edited by jonkoca on
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • nic1985nic1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Hopefully with the upcoming September PvP revamp/events we see an increasing numbers of players do PvP; then Devs will invest more into expanding PvP and make exclusive PvP gears/items/etc. If the September PvP events don't produced enough interest, surely PvP would be in trouble and again be a side project.

    I am pretty hopeful for the upcoming PvP season; especially Season Rewards. This is a good approach on the Devs part, make it somewhat enticing for everyone to try PvP with the rewards, rather than making PvP too exclusive.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Yeah I'm looking forward to the event too, I've gotten my build to about where I want it without ruining my pve build completely, so I'm ready to rock and roll 😅.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    All your gear you use in PvP is aquired through PvE, that is wrong if the rings are too?
    ToMM is a big challenge and BiS rings are worthy reward for beating that.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    😅 Now imagine if the situation were reversed. If BiS PVE gear were gated behind some phenomenal amount of glory. Or your pve team had to defeat my pvp dreamteam in domination... Would you be so understanding if that were the case..?

    The situation has never really made any sense to me, it's like having to pass a fine arts degree in order to qualify as an engineer.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • spoonybard#3189 spoonybard Member Posts: 31 Arc User

    jonkoca said:

    Right now, the rings dropping from ToMM are of zero use to the people capable of beating ToMM, beyond bragging rights. For the pvp, I hesitate to call them a crowd lol, they would be extremely useful. However no-one in their right mind is going to pay 40 million AD for one.

    Be nice if there were pvp-versions - ie. Only equipable in pvp - of the rings and weapons that could be won through glory, 50k a pop like the artifacts.

    Just throwing it out there. Dunno about the rest of the long-term pvpers on pc, but it's long been a giant source of irritation that often the best gear in the game is generally out of reach for anyone who's invested more in a pvp build than pve.

    Hey, pssst want to buy a ring:

    What is the purpose of this post?
    I fail to see how it brings anything to the discussion, besides a laughable attempt at bragging?

    On topic: Since one of the points in this mod was to breathe some more life into PvP, I think the OP suggestion about PvP rings bought through glory, or some form of token, is a great idea.
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    jonkoca said:

    😅 Now imagine if the situation were reversed. If BiS PVE gear were gated behind some phenomenal amount of glory. Or your pve team had to defeat my pvp dreamteam in domination... Would you be so understanding if that were the case..?

    The situation has never really made any sense to me, it's like having to pass a fine arts degree in order to qualify as an engineer.

    You have to remember this is not DotA or any other plain pvp game. This is a rpg, and includes both pve and pvp. Like i said before, stop crying and wait until they get cheap enough for you (they were as for 5m on the ah yesterday). If no one buys it you won't be in disadvantage. Eventually the wealthier will start buying them and then the rest. And in some time everyone would have those rings. I mean, if they did like before and bta them, you would be crying a lot more because you would have had to farm them
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    @spoonybard - fab's a friend, and it was funny, no need to get snippy 😃, that's my job.

    @gonzakotwi - I don't mind farming, just would prefer a "choice of farming vehicle". And if by 'crying' you mean pointing out the inanity of this situation - rewards that are doubly valuless to those that aquire them, in that they don't need the stats provided on the items (how many were equipped compared with those put directly on the AH), and as you point out they aren't selling lol.

    Anyway, your lack of empathy is noted, thanx for your feedback, I'm fully aware you represent a large demograph of the playerbase.
    Post edited by jonkoca on
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    - Yo guys, i bought those new BiS rings and i have a huge ammount of stats, now i have an advantage in PvP!
    - Yo boi, i bought an Shadowclad enchantment and i hamster up your advantage at all :p
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User

    jonkoca said:

    😅 Now imagine if the situation were reversed. If BiS PVE gear were gated behind some phenomenal amount of glory. Or your pve team had to defeat my pvp dreamteam in domination... Would you be so understanding if that were the case..?

    The situation has never really made any sense to me, it's like having to pass a fine arts degree in order to qualify as an engineer.

    You have to remember this is not DotA or any other plain pvp game. This is a rpg, and includes both pve and pvp. Like i said before, stop crying and wait until they get cheap enough for you (they were as for 5m on the ah yesterday). If no one buys it you won't be in disadvantage. Eventually the wealthier will start buying them and then the rest. And in some time everyone would have those rings. I mean, if they did like before and bta them, you would be crying a lot more because you would have had to farm them
    It's an RPG, so it includes both PVE and PVP. Therefore all bis gear is supposed to be gained from PVE? Your reasoning makes no sense. Don't you think it's better that PVE players use mostly PVE gear and PVP players use mostly PVP gear?

    Or that PVP players are supposed to wait until the PVE drops get cheap, then buy them with AD gained from PVE? Also wrong. You seem to be missing the point that there should be an alternative that would allow both groups to play or grind what they prefer.
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    gweddry said:



    It's an RPG, so it includes both PVE and PVP. Therefore all bis gear is supposed to be gained from PVE?

    Thats how it works in every mmorpg, please name me one that doesn't.

    I understand that you don't want to do pve. But seriously guys, in a couple of weeks those rings would be as much as 300k ad or less, and when everyone have it we would be as we are today with no notable difference apart from bigger numbers. For pvp there are more important things to discuss such as broken items or class dis-balance which prevent players to even try pvp.
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  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    PvP Equivalents of ToMM rings may be added in mod eighteen perhaps.
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    Pvp ain't that important. You want the rings ? earn it in Tomm or buy it with ad if you're a p2w type :)
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  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Considering the effort required to finish ToMM, once the prices drop below a certain threshold, people will stop doing it. They'll never be very cheap put it that way.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    ToMM rings are cheap already, in comparison with Swarm of Bats, which cost 40kk AD as well.

    Post edited by animamundi24 on
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  • thestiathestia Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 296 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    😅 Now imagine if the situation were reversed. If BiS PVE gear were gated behind some phenomenal amount of glory. Or your pve team had to defeat my pvp dreamteam in domination... Would you be so understanding if that were the case..?

    The situation has never really made any sense to me, it's like having to pass a fine arts degree in order to qualify as an engineer.

    jonkoca said:

    😅 Now imagine if the situation were reversed. If BiS PVE gear were gated behind some phenomenal amount of glory. Or your pve team had to defeat my pvp dreamteam in domination... Would you be so understanding if that were the case..?

    The situation has never really made any sense to me, it's like having to pass a fine arts degree in order to qualify as an engineer.

    I guess you mean similar to how building the stable to get the most coveted boon in the game - power - was gated behind pvp currency? Anyone who didn't want to farm pvp had to... buy it. Now the reverse is true, and I don't see the problem if we want to be fair.

    PVPers have always had to PVE to get their gear, either directly or to fund our enchants/mounts. I remember when we used to say that with a certain amount of pride... especially when faced with people who mainly pve'd complained about PVP.

    As with all things, if you just HAVE to have something the day it comes out, you're going to pay through the nose for it. If you can wait, or farm it yourself, your patience will save your wallet.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Thestia said:

    I guess you mean similar to how building the stable to get the most coveted boon in the game - power - was gated behind pvp currency? Anyone who didn't want to farm pvp had to... buy it. Now the reverse is true, and I don't see the problem if we want to be fair.

    Fair..? Aww. Did PVE'ers have to pvp for a whole mod..? One whole mod..? PVP'ers have had to pve during the entire history of the game. Every mod. Excuse me while I find my minature violin to accompany you. Fair indeed. Yaa.
    No idea what my toon is now.
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