Idea for healers

picar66 · August 2019

There are 3 healer types in game, each has its own way to heal.
SW need critters to give heals (that is damage + heal in one), OP heals and give shields, DC can only heal but with higher Magnitude.
That is leading to an advance of SW or OP heal, when looking forward to ToMM.

To balance this a little more i have the following suggestion:

When a heal spell heals and make more heal then ally need (overheal), than a portion of that overheal should be give as temporary hit points to that ally. Maybe different rate for SW, DC and OP or different max temp HP % of allys max HP. And to let PVP out of it only in PVE!

That balance the healer to a more comparable spot, gives SW heal more value on 2nd boss LOMM and DC a chance to better support in high and fast attack situation (like endboss CR and ToMM).

What do you think about that idea?

majorcharvenak · August 2019

What? So they can nerf heals down even further? Wasn't this latest nerf due to BiS/Near BiS healers doing too well in ToMM? How would these temp HP act or behave any different than the shields pallies already provide? Does it simply replace all the existing mechanics and differences between healers? How would these rates be determined without two of the classes feeling they got shafted from the devs if implemented? Bottom line - No. I'm not sure I can get behind this idea and I doubt the devs would entertain it. Hats off for the suggestion though.

picar66 · August 2019

No it doesnt replace anything that is in place.
it is only to give dc and sw healers a chance to get into groups running tomm, cause shields from op heal are so strong that any other healer isnt wanted. And in my eyes that is a problem, that content exist where ony a few class combiations are able to solve it. So when every heal has the same mechanics working, then only IL and skill is what makes difference not class.

majorcharvenak · August 2019

So your suggestion is to give everyone shields/temp HP/extra layer of protection like the paladins? Umm...okay, but if the paladins still retained their shield mechanic wouldn't they also give temp hp and in theory be a stronger choice for ToMM parties because their heals would now do both (shields & temp HP)? Or are you asking for a shielding/temp HP/whatevs only be given to DCs and SWs, but not the OPs? If its the latter, you weren't all that clear in your original post. And you'd like this mechanic added so the DC and SW could be picked up for more ToMM runs? The same dungeon where the DC and OP heals were deemed as overperforming so they were nerfed in the first place?

I'm sorry. I need more coffee because as it stands I REALLY don't think the devs will entertain this idea.

picar66 · August 2019

Thats why i wrote different ratings for the classes and/or different max temp hp of max hp from ally.
So the OP have already shields, so they give little temp hp, SW giving the most and DC in between.
Its an idea not a full calculated with all circumstances of happenings and interactions solution.

But my first guess to give some example numbers:
SW could give 80% of max hp from ally as temp, DC could give 60% of max hp from ally and OP could give 40% of max hp from ally. SW rate is 100% of its overheal, DC rate is 80% of its overheal and OP rate is 60% of overheal.
SW has high rate couse his heal is more Heal over time like with small numbers, OP has already shield mechanic so lesser rate and DC have highest overheal potential (cause of high magnitude values) so rate is between SW and OP.

if someone could calculate it out to balance this more then use that numbers.

The goal is that high and overheal has some value but no (big) advantage for any healer class.

hope you could now better understand my idea.

fyrstigor · August 2019

Thats the difference between average healer and a good healer. How well do they maximize their divinity usage without ever letting anyone die.

A change like this would only make healing easier, and then it would have to be nerfed again, and we are back at the starting point.

I see 0 reasons for a change like this would ever be needed or that it would improve the game at all.

kangkeok · August 2019

So if we give all healer temp hp like pally does, does that mean pally gets the high heal magnitude that DC have and the continuous healing without cooldown that warlock has? To be fair to all classes of healer, lets make all healing power the same. Oh wait, lets skip the hassle, lets consolidate all healer class into one single class. There. Everyone does the same heal. Fair enough I guess?

Pally heals might seem great but it has its down side. Its function is simply provide an extra layer of hp pool for the group and to mitigate the incoming damage with that extra layer of hp to compensate his low magnitude heal. Its downside are when the group hp got low, pally will have a hard time to heal back all the missing hp up since they had a low heal magnitude. If the group are under constant high damage attack that are more than the pally heal magnitude could handle, that's when pally fail and cleric shines. With cleric high heal magnitude, its could easily out heal most attack done to the group.

I started to explore warlock as a healer recently and I find its strength to be able to provide a consistent heal with zero cooldown. I'm still half way there so I shall not conclude anything of yet.

Anyway, all people see are the strength of other class rather than figure your own class strength. The grass is always greener on the other side.

picar66 · August 2019

OK my idea is more for not top geared groups to help to improve successfull completion of dungeons/skirmishes.
I see your comments as a result of only view point of top geared ppl, where an extra layer of protection is not so needed (for now).
But i like the idea of having some value of heal thats there but not needed (overheal).

When a char missed 40k hp to his max and heal spell gives 100k heal, then that 60k heal is overheal.
My idea gives that 60k of extra heal a real value in form of temp hp at a healerclass specific rate and with a healerclass specific max temp hp point.

Its for all healer classes and makes them more comparable.
And has its most value is for low-mid geared players.

kangkeok · August 2019

Frankly Its doesn't matter if pally heal have a shield or the DC are overhealing the group. The point is, DC are still capable of getting someone hp up faster than a pally does at almost double rate ( a 600 vs 350 heal magnitude ). Thus if a pally is able to keep a group alive, its not a problem for DC aswell. If a person has 10/100k hp and the DC healed for 150k hp while pally healed for 80k hp, even if the DC overhealed by 60k hp, he still got that person healed to full with one heal while pally needed 2 heal to get it to full. If the person has 40k/600k hp, how many heal does a DC need to put out and how many times for a pally?

Pally shield are only useful on a group that have low hp pool or in a situation where the group could get one shot by the burst like triobrand charging tower phase. For situation that the group are getting ongoing and constant heavy bombardment like the boreworm or Ras'nisi phase, DC heals has a better chance to out heal the damage done to the group. I have tried to outheal Ras'nisi damage in Tong as a pally. Most of the time, I watch helplessly as my tank hp got lesser and lesser after each attack as I unable to out heal the damage. I had to rely on a good tank that know how to mitigate most of the damage. DC on the other hand, its specialty is outhealing. With the same stat, I'm sure DC are able to outheal Ras'nisi damage better than a pally.

Its just a stereotypical thing to think Pally heal are better because of the shield. In truth each has its own strength and weaknesses. That's balance if u ask me.

picar66 · August 2019

I am with you that all healer types has its strengh and weaknesses.

My Point was not to chance any mechanics that exist, only to add one effect.
So the builds with high outgoing heals (slotted companions with that effect) has more value then now.
Now all overheal is lost, so why build a healer with high outgoing heal?
Healers need relative long to get more divinety to push out heals, so in a longer fight without much time between heals healers running out of divinity. That extra layer of protection gives a little time to get divinity.

But i see you are against that.

I thought my idea is good to give healers incentives to build high outgoing heals for better supporting groups to complete dungeon/skirmishes. Healers in this game are more babysitters. Be a supporter class mostly isnt honored from other players and from game. Did you see any point in beeing a good heal. All is about killing and high damage, but high heal?
Where does a healer gets something for high heals? No reward is for high heals, only for killing.

So the only reward for being a good heal is that the group finish content and you get the reward.

My idea tries to give some reward back, so healing is easier and new mechanics in dungeons/skirmishes are possible with longer and fast attacks or massive adds (like old dungeon designs).

Maybe my next idea has more consense in playerbase.

kangkeok · August 2019

picar66 said:
I am with you that all healer types has its strengh and weaknesses.

My Point was not to chance any mechanics that exist, only to add one effect.
So the builds with high outgoing heals (slotted companions with that effect) has more value then now.
Now all overheal is lost, so why build a healer with high outgoing heal?
Healers need relative long to get more divinety to push out heals, so in a longer fight without much time between heals healers running out of divinity. That extra layer of protection gives a little time to get divinity.

But i see you are against that.

I thought my idea is good to give healers incentives to build high outgoing heals for better supporting groups to complete dungeon/skirmishes. Healers in this game are more babysitters. Be a supporter class mostly isnt honored from other players and from game. Did you see any point in beeing a good heal. All is about killing and high damage, but high heal?
Where does a healer gets something for high heals? No reward is for high heals, only for killing.

So the only reward for being a good heal is that the group finish content and you get the reward.

My idea tries to give some reward back, so healing is easier and new mechanics in dungeons/skirmishes are possible with longer and fast attacks or massive adds (like old dungeon designs).

Maybe my next idea has more consense in playerbase.

U don't seem to get what I said earlier. Let me give u a better illustration in a situation where DC heal are better than pally. When a person with 500k hp is hit 350k by a boss leaving him with 150k hp and the healer only have time to cast 3 heal before the next 350k land again.

For pally case, lets say he heals for 70k. The first heal provide 70k heal + 70k shield, 2nd and 3rd provide only 70k heal each since shield don't stack. Total of 210k hp are healed with 70k shield provided. That give the person 150k + 210k + 70k shield = 360k hp + 70k shield. The next attack, 360k hp + 70k shield - 350k damage = 80k hp + 0 shield. For the next attack, the person hp is left with 10k hp and the next, he is dead.

For DC case, since pally heals for 70k ( with 350 magnitude ), with the same stat, cleric will heal at 120k ( with 600 magnitude ). Total heal = 120k x 3 = 360k. That will give the person 150k hp + 360k heal = 500k with 10k over heal. The next attack will leave the person 150k hp again. Again the DC heal for 360k hp and the person is back to full again.

That's is what happen when u fight boss like Ras'nisi. That extra layer of protection only bring pally heal to DC heal level for the first heal. Shield do not stack, that brings pally heal down to half as effective as DC heal. Does pally save more divinity in this case? Even if he does, whats the point? The person is dead. Does pally perform better than DC in this case? Does the 10k overheal matter? I don't think so. How effective does both of this healer heal is situational and rely on their healing pros and cons. What u see are just pros of pally heal but failed to see the pros of DC heal.

Edit,

Oh, btw I wish to add, DC heals 600 magnitude 140 divinity cost vs pally 350 magnitude 100 divinity cost. Ratio wise, pally heals are more expensive than DC. For efficiency wise, pally need to spam more heal to get someone's hp to full compare to DC. However, regarding divinity management, it still situational. Pally will only have advantage in divinity management if the damage taken by the group are small enough for pally to sustain. But when the damage does more than the heal pally could provide, then pally will be on the disadvantage. In short pally burn more divinity in a stressful situation compare to DC and it is in stressful situation that healing matter the most. Its something that lot of people fail to see.

markhawkman · August 2019

Then you have Warlocks who often make do with passive healing

ecrana · August 2019

Heals are fine as they are. And I'm speaking as someone that has a healer of each class.

Idea for healers

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