Being attacked by critters 20 levels below us isn't "challenging" -- it's ANNOYING.

hustin1 · July 2019

The rationale behind the change from a 7-level threshold to a 20-level threshold is allegedly so that existing campaigns don't become complete pushovers. The problem is that even with this change, they're still pushovers, just now more annoying pushovers. That, however, isn't why I'm posting this thread.

The problem is that a lot of other things are now also really annoying. If we aren't level 80 and want to do certain Maze Engine quests, now we have to cut our way through Mount Hotenow or Whispering Caverns to do them. Nothing there is challenging to a level-70 player, but having to fight everything along the way to the real quest objective *is* annoying as hell.

Ditto for when we want to gather masterwork materials. Now we have the pleasure of fighting everything and his dog in Whispering Caverns even though we can kill them with little more than a heavy dose of sarcasm. The enemies know they can't beat us but now they're going to annoy the hell out of us every time we need certain materials.

This is beyond stupid.

It's a bandaid the devs applied after removing the other beyond-stupid "feature" of scaling to critter level. It's also unnecessary. There were and are better ways to deal with this.

1. The lowest-level campaign is Sharandar which clocks in at level 64. Right off the bat, that means that the level threshold need be no higher than 16. Setting it to 20 levels was pure laziness.

2. The devs could have rescaled the Sharandar critters to 70 and then set the threshold to 10, since all other campaigns are already at level 70.

3. The devs could have left in scaling for campaign zones, but scaled players down the minimal number of levels so that critters would aggro. For Sharandar areas this would be to levels 71, 73, and 75, respectively, and to 77 in all other legacy campaign areas.

4. Add an extra aggro rule. Players can be aggroed if they are up to 7 levels above a critter, **or** if they currently hold any quests from that campaign (no matter how high level they are). This means that you can roam around, for example, Sharandar helping your guildmate while not getting aggro, but if you go take a quest from any of the NPC's there, then you are fair game for the critters there as long as you have that quest. It's akin to when you have a quest that takes you into a private instance (e.g. Gnarlroot Caverns) where critters will attack you no matter what. This is the solution I like the most.

God forbid someone there actually puts some thought into it, though...

EDIT: added choice #4.

fyrstigor · July 2019

Legendary mounts just got a lot more valuable in terms of being able to just run away from them all.

Maybe thats the real purpose of the increase ?

caldochaud · July 2019

The problem is, what is the point of even bothering to level up to 80 and not enjoy the benefits of not having to waste time and effort fighting lower-leveled mobs?

For anybody who has played a traditional RPG, once you reach a level significantly higher than a mob, the creatures become scared of you... and run away from you; not you running away from them. Even classic table-top D&D has a fear status that can negatively effect the player (or the monster) and cause them to run away. However, this new setup for Mod 16 puts a level 80 player in a whole new definition of insignificance as being level 80 is totally irrelevant. Sure, as a level 80 player, I have more moves and abilities but what does that matter if my weapon is as effective as a wet noodle and my armor is reduced to tissue-paper?

No level 80 anything should have to run away from a level 20 mob. That's not challenging. That is both an insult to a player and lazy game programming.

My suggestion would be to get rid of all scaling in the game and simply add optional level 80 only heroic areas to each map (and dungeon) in the game and provide an incentive for level 80 players to challenge them... such as unique BiS armors that offer a special bonus effect when paired with a specific Legendary companion or mount. Also give each and every mob in the game 1 tank, 2 DPS and a healer that forces all levels of players to take out the healer before they can successfully clear a mob.

Personally, I have always believed that if an MMO has multiple instances, there should be a separate dedicated hard-mode instance (similar to how Star Wars The Old Republic has a separate dedicated PvP Instance) so should a solo player (or party) truly wants a challenge, they can just switch instances. Problem solved.

pitshade · July 2019

If you are level 80, the only area in the original zones where mobs will aggro is the Iron Heart at the end of Whispering Caverns and there are no MW nodes there. I've been through the parts where the nodes are this weekend doing the ME stuff and nothing aggros as that stuff caps at level 59. If you're running on a character less than level 80, you'll get aggro there but that isn't a permanent condition unless you're trying to make it one.

Sharandar had scaling before so the mobs already aggroed. The rest of the campaign zones were level 70 so everything aggroed. Nothing there has changed. I don't like what they did with the level cap increase and campaign zones, but as far as aggro goes, nothing has changed at all.

dionchi · July 2019

So, someone is queuing for content they previously skipped when it was level appropriate for their character, but now has to complete those areas to get to where they want to go.... Are intentionally queuing for an area they need to visit to get resources... And are complaining the opponents in those areas are "too easy" and wants someone ("the devs") to 'fix it'???

Am I reading that right?

hustin1 · July 2019

No, that isn't the point at all.

plasticbat · July 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:

pitshade said:
If you are level 80, the only area in the original zones where mobs will aggro is the Iron Heart at the end of Whispering Caverns and there are no MW nodes there. I've been through the parts where the nodes are this weekend doing the ME stuff and nothing aggros as that stuff caps at level 59. If you're running on a character less than level 80, you'll get aggro there but that isn't a permanent condition unless you're trying to make it one.

Sharandar had scaling before so the mobs already aggroed. The rest of the campaign zones were level 70 so everything aggroed. Nothing there has changed. I don't like what they did with the level cap increase and campaign zones, but as far as aggro goes, nothing has changed at all.
dread ring?

You got aggro in dread ring before mod 16.

Being attacked by critters 20 levels below us isn't "challenging" -- it's *ANNOYING*.

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Being attacked by critters 20 levels below us isn't "challenging" -- it's ANNOYING.