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Mod 16 from a returning player Point of view
allsins
Member Posts: 31 Arc User
Ok let me start by saying wen i left the game the last campaign was Underdark, now i don't know if this changes were all in mod 16 or any other mod.
What i like:
The refinement changes...omg finally i'm able to get a weapon to Orange, it was completely impossible for me to refine gear, it took WAY too long, felt like a second job, this was the main reason i left the game, the farm was insane, if i wanted to play a korean mmo i would go and play one.
i think this system right now is perfect.
The companions: They simplified it a lot, and i think honestly its a lot better now, you want a passive from a companion? buy it and equip it, easy, you still have to lvl them up to get the full stats of that passive and im ok with that.
The under mountain campaign was fast and to the point, i didn't have to do daily's for months to complete it, i like it.
Mob Drops: Mobs dropping a lot of refinement gems is awesome.
No lifesteal : I only play warlock, never played anything else, and i was soooo used to lifesteal that at first i was dying in Barovia a LOT, but then i kinda enjoyed it, felt like i was playing dark Souls, play well or die, i like it.
What i don't like:
The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.
The Scaling: This was the worst thing that happened to this game, and every single new player will feel useless in Dungeons ....they will click "Random leveling Dungeon " and feel completely useless.
you want to attract new players? The Scaling in Dungeons was the worst thing you could have done for that, have you ever done a Dungeon without a High item lvl player in there? Just 5 new players with bad gear, its almost impossible...New players don't have bondings, they don't even know what the hell that is...they will die again and again...quit and go play Elder scroll Online.
Remove the Scaling everywhere and the game will be much better.
Oh, another thing...Barbarians with Plate armor? Warlocks healing? What the hell?
Have any of the developers ever read a novel in this universe? The Drizzt books for example...Barbarians don't wear Plate armor, Warlocks don't heal...
Barbarian was the most SLACKER class ever made, just change the name from Great weapon Fighter to Barbarian and call it a day....No, Great Weapon fighter is one thing a Barbarian is another....
So Basically, I really really hate the scaling and i like everything else.
Will they read this? Nop, do i care? Nop, wen i get tired of this Scaling nonsense i will just leave again.
What i like:
The refinement changes...omg finally i'm able to get a weapon to Orange, it was completely impossible for me to refine gear, it took WAY too long, felt like a second job, this was the main reason i left the game, the farm was insane, if i wanted to play a korean mmo i would go and play one.
i think this system right now is perfect.
The companions: They simplified it a lot, and i think honestly its a lot better now, you want a passive from a companion? buy it and equip it, easy, you still have to lvl them up to get the full stats of that passive and im ok with that.
The under mountain campaign was fast and to the point, i didn't have to do daily's for months to complete it, i like it.
Mob Drops: Mobs dropping a lot of refinement gems is awesome.
No lifesteal : I only play warlock, never played anything else, and i was soooo used to lifesteal that at first i was dying in Barovia a LOT, but then i kinda enjoyed it, felt like i was playing dark Souls, play well or die, i like it.
What i don't like:
The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.
The Scaling: This was the worst thing that happened to this game, and every single new player will feel useless in Dungeons ....they will click "Random leveling Dungeon " and feel completely useless.
you want to attract new players? The Scaling in Dungeons was the worst thing you could have done for that, have you ever done a Dungeon without a High item lvl player in there? Just 5 new players with bad gear, its almost impossible...New players don't have bondings, they don't even know what the hell that is...they will die again and again...quit and go play Elder scroll Online.
Remove the Scaling everywhere and the game will be much better.
Oh, another thing...Barbarians with Plate armor? Warlocks healing? What the hell?
Have any of the developers ever read a novel in this universe? The Drizzt books for example...Barbarians don't wear Plate armor, Warlocks don't heal...
Barbarian was the most SLACKER class ever made, just change the name from Great weapon Fighter to Barbarian and call it a day....No, Great Weapon fighter is one thing a Barbarian is another....
So Basically, I really really hate the scaling and i like everything else.
Will they read this? Nop, do i care? Nop, wen i get tired of this Scaling nonsense i will just leave again.
Post edited by allsins on
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Comments
Scaling has made me not renew my vip and stop logging in.. well that and the game is a basic shell of itself and everything seem slow and boring, retrogressing combat to years ago or worst.
Well I think most of us asked for some sort of nerf to power sharing, nerf steal, power cycling , and multiplicative buffing.
I dont think any of us here asking for the scaling methodology they imparted.
But whatever at this point, they pretty much lost me, so I guess its for the poeple who are staying that it matters to.
I was that low lvl player at some point, and wen i got in a party with a high lvl i was like " hell yeah, thanks dude", you know why? Because you do the Dungeon once or twice and its enough to see it, wen you do it 20 times, you are praying to be in a party with a high lvl, if you are not, its just boring.
About the slow gameplay, i noticed that, seems like my skills take forever to come out of cooldown and im left there left clicking, whats up with that?
I would rather the skills dealt less damage but we could do them more often, right now it does not feel like an action mmo.
Devs, please do something..., Foss please do something to bring the fun factor again. We are not here to work... we are here to have fun! Some of us want to spend money, but the current state of the game is not making it worth the money nor the time to play. Neverwinter is the only good mmo I've ever experienced and would LOVE to stay. I want to hope your upcoming "changes" would make a good impact because otherwise... you guys will lose me. I won't continue to support a broken game. Lets be honest. Its broken!
Daily Vigil 150 BC/0 Omens
Corruption 20 BC/5 Omens
Rituals 20 BC/5 Omens
Straw Men 20 BC/5 Omens
Cauldron 20 BC/5 Omens
Remains 20 BC/5 Omens
Dishonor 20 BC/5 Omens
Dire Wolf 20 BC/5 Omens
Tracking 20 BC/5 Omens
Dark Heroics Weekly - 100/25
CoW Weekly - 100/25
Bone Weekly - 100/25
Spy Weekly - 100/25
Lighting Fires Weekly - 100/25
100 coins + 2 omens = 1K RAD
20 omens can be used to buy 100 coins.
I don't know how many alts you run but they can do this assuming they are level 70.
Each character was able to refine 36K RAD/day. The shortest dungeon/skirmish to run was eToS/eSoT. Everyone ran eToS/eSoT twice a day for 36K+ RAD/day. Then the power creep got high enough that only one or two well geared toon could carry the group through eToS. People made alt-army accounts and sent trashy toons into eTos/eSoT for others to carry them for easy 36K+ RAD per toon per day. This caused a huge influx of AD into the economy.
Then came Random Queue and characters that had to use for their daily RAD. But this wasn't enough to curb the influx of AD and the RAD model was changed from 36K/toon/day to 100K/account/day.
With alt-army accounts rendered useless, the more dedicated players moved on to multiple accounts and multi-boxing. Now AFKs started showing up in easier runs. This frustrated many legit players who had to carry the AFKs.
With AFK running rampant, we now have scaling so runs are not that easy and multi-boxing and botting will be harder.
Scaling is the right direction for the game. It needs more tuning though. RLQ runs like DL should not feel like end-game runs when the party is mostly new players.
Thank you
So the problem is back, players felt frustrated because they had to carry the slakers, now they have to carry anyway because new players are useless in Dungeons....i understand they wanted to fix that, but the Scaling really really hurts new players.
Speaking for myself, this gamer had absolutely no complaints with the old Neverwinter other than with Mod 15's removal of being able to salvage AD from unwanted gear... I want the old game back.
I want the Lifesteal! I want Recovery! I want to buff my team mates! HAMSTER!!! If I am expected to put in the time and effort to refine, I want my refined gear and enchantements to be at full power at all times in every location without this scaling HAMSTER stealing from me what I have earned fair and square!
In neverwinter no dev was able to fix the broken powersharing and no one was really working on the balancing. So what do you do if you have bad devs and not enough devs? You make the game simple as you can to "balance" things. One of theese things is scaling.
Dont missunderstand me plz. Im not saying its totaly false...but in NW its not the right direction, bc you got no good devs here. Thats the reason why mod 16 suxx and why i think they never gonna fix it properly.
All they have done with mod 16 is:
Make the game as simple as you can for the devs.
Spidey
Mod 16 removed the buff stacking and debuffs we had but power creep from excessive power is still present.
Mod 16 actually caused more problems than it solved.
As for this mod in general, let me put it a bit differently than most players.
I've been playing since Mod 2. To this day there are places in the game that are no-go areas for me -- not because I can't handle them, but because the negative memories and feelings are so strong that I simply can't stand the thought of going there. I'm talking about the four Elemental Evil zones, especially Spinward Rise. The only way I'll venture there is if someone in the alliance desperately needs help and there is no one else available. Otherwise, if it comes to, say, leveling an alt, I always buy the campaign buyout and skip the zones entirely.
I hate going there *that* much. That's what some killer-DM designer's affliction of "vigilance on the brain" did to me.
I can already see that Undermountain will be the same for me. Every minute I have to spend in Yawning Portal or in that cursed dungeon feels like psychological torture. I loathe the place -- not because of the environment, but because of this entire mod, with all the awful "improvements" that someone somewhere thought we might like. I have 14 alts sitting at level 70, many of whom have finished all of the other campaigns, and I find the thought of spending even one minute dragging them through Undermountain hateful in the extreme.
I won't do it. Undermountain will become another no-go place for me going forward.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Scaling has no sense at all.
If you would nerf Recovery and Lifesteal I agree, nerf them. Don't cancel them. I make you an example: with a hit with 50k damage you could heal yourselft about 1kk hp. This was to strong. But it doesn't mean you should cancel it. Decrease its power, make something like "you have a possibility to get healing as half of the damage dealt".
But now nothing doesn't care, because they made every choise without got any suggestion from the players community.
I think a game is good and stay good only if who write the code follow the feedback and the suggestions of the people who play the game. Stop.
At the moment, Neverwinter is not like that.
The game is just too old by now and has changed too much for the forums to give any sense of a unitary player base. People who started at different MODs (or pre MOD1) miss different things about the game and have a completely different idea of what the game should be like (i really don't blame Cryptic for finding it difficult to filter out any meaningful feedback because it is increasingly difficult to separate temper tantrums from constructive feedback even if it tends to get emotional).
I'd hope that the more players take up this game, the more incentive Cryptic would also have to divert more resources to the game to put out more content with different tiers of difficulty.
That said I would like more LVL80 areas
If you ask me, they nerfed buffs and then made it so you have to use Zen to get BiS (read R15s and legendary insignia). Change mount bonuses etc. Cheap & obvious cash grab.
then they lobotomised the game to make it easier for them
imo this is the worst Mod by a long way
at the moment I am hating this game, it is only the years of character development that is keeping me here, and it is only by a thread. gameplay sux
Going to try to quickly update you on what happened to RAD and dungeon queues since you last played during UD.
Each character was able to refine 36K RAD/day. The shortest dungeon/skirmish to run was eToS/eSoT. Everyone ran eToS/eSoT twice a day for 36K+ RAD/day. Then the power creep got high enough that only one or two well geared toon could carry the group through eToS. People made alt-army accounts and sent trashy toons into eTos/eSoT for others to carry them for easy 36K+ RAD per toon per day. This caused a huge influx of AD into the economy.
Then came Random Queue and characters that had to use for their daily RAD. But this wasn't enough to curb the influx of AD and the RAD model was changed from 36K/toon/day to 100K/account/day.
With alt-army accounts rendered useless, the more dedicated players moved on to multiple accounts and multi-boxing. Now AFKs started showing up in easier runs. This frustrated many legit players who had to carry the AFKs.
With AFK running rampant, we now have scaling so runs are not that easy and multi-boxing and botting will be harder.
Scaling is the right direction for the game. It needs more tuning though. RLQ runs like DL should not feel like end-game runs when the party is mostly new players.
This is an interesting read. I too returned to the game after a long time away about 2 months ago, and did not know this history. The reason I quit the game multiple times in years past was because it took me too long to kill things. I am not the type of player that calculates caps and precise builds, rather, I simply upgrade my characters in a very general way. When I played DAoC I always refused to make a template as well, because I found it tedious, not because I didn't see the benefit in it; the only template I ever had was on a set of armor that was nearly decayed to the point of destruction, after a couple of more repairs, from a guildmate who had crafted himself a new armor set to replace it LOL.
When I came back to the game this time, it was pre-MOD 16, and I dumped a bunch of money into the game to get a single character to where I could kill quickly and survive decently. MOD16 released and I had to dump even more money into this single character in order to deal with scaling. Next, I started to get bored with that one character (I am an alt-aholic), and I wanted a tank (since they seemed important with scaling), so I proceeded to dump even more money and time into a second character. Hundreds of dollars later, I am not building up anymore characters. I find both of my characters acceptable for everything accept high tier dungeons, and frankly cannot justify wasting anymore money than I have at this point. Even after spending this money, both of my toons are not at peak performance but I can at least enjoy them as a semi-casual player.
When evaluating this experience, and the information you gave, I am reminded of virtually every MMO and PVP game I have ever played, and the struggle devs engage in to combat human innovation to find loopholes, exploit, or simply capitalize on systems that are in place. In almost every game I can think of, devs have failed in this regard. I do not believe they always fail due to incompetence or a lack of understanding, but because they are engaged in a futile battle as I see it. One has to understand that you will really never have a foolproof system that cannot be exploited or taken advantage of, while at the same time have a system that offers a variety of skills, classes, and options. The problem is the playerbase doesn't want a homogeneous system. Based upon my experience of several decades of gaming, players want variety, they want to stand out, they want to create something of a unique playstyle they can master that is unique to them, and they want to feel some power creep, advantage, and progression based on the time to put into the game. Furthermore, they want to rest assured that their investment is protected (particularly when it involves real life currency and not just time invested into the game to earn pixelated currencies). MOD16 effectively violated all of the aforementioned "wants/needs" of the playerbase. Time, money, variety, options, and an overall sense of accomplishment and progression were all degraded or destroyed for what appears to be a majority of the playerbase.
But let me qualify all of this by saying that I am empathetic to the dev's struggles as well. From their point of view, things have to be manipulated to maintain the integrity of the game on several levels. Furthermore, the tendancies of a playerbase is always overwhelmingly negative. Take the latest patch as an example. The devs really did a good job of addressing a huge variety of problems brought on by MOD16 in response to the playerbase's complaints. Still, in the patch notes thread, there were several respondents who couldn't even acknowledge this and still promoted the thing THEY felt wasn't adequate, or didn't make this round, or they simply said that they weren't really thankful for progress because the issues were self-inflicted by the devs and shouldn't even exist. When I praised the good that they did, one mental midget flagged my post with a LOL and no comment. Someone says, well that just goes to show how mad they made us, and I get that, but let's try not to be so emotional that we miss the point here. The point is, you must encourage the behavior and trends that you support, just as ardently as you discourage the changes and trends you hate. This is important, because relationships matter, including those the consumer has with the provider of goods.
So what is the answer to this conundrum? There are many answers, and none are perfect. But, I think communication and mutual respect is where it all has to start. Devs must listen to their playerbase, and the playerbase must respect that this is the Dev's game. Standing upon that ground, open discussion should guide the changes that will ultimately take place. Scaling may well have been "necessary," but it was rolled out broken, too early, and in a way that violated what the consumer wanted. Good business should never do this. Conversely, the playerbase should be able to accept that the Devs are simply reacting to something the playerbase was doing that, while unintended perhaps, was detrimental to the overall health of the game. Something had to be done, just not necessary what WAS done or HOW it was done.
My final point, is that you cannot change people devs. People will always find a way to play your game that exceeds your expectations in both positive and negative ways. My humble advice is to strive to not be reactionary in your responses, and only offer careful, measured, meaningful, high-quality responses when you do react. Do not attempt to eradicate a disease by tossing the whole body into a fire, so to speak. Sometimes it is better to let some less than optimal situations simply continue to exist for the good of the whole community. And when you are going to make changes, attempt to make changes that ADD solutions rather than taking things away as you did with the skilltrees and combat timers. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I know things are oversimplified in my post regarding certain issues, but I am simply concerned enough, about a game I like enough, that I feel compelled to say these things. Right now, despite your intentions, the community believes you don't respect their opinions, time, or money; whether this is true or not, perception is reality. Let's learn from this unfortunate MOD and go forward in good faith, determined to not repeat the same mistakes (new ones are okay), and to release quality as a standard. In exchange, the community should be understanding, supportive, and strive to voice complaints without being destructive.
dont understand why devs use "barbarians" as class, those are "Tribal" warrior race, not a class.
it has Barbarian priest, it has barbarian warrior, it has barbarian chief, and it has barbarian maidens. viking barbarians has Shieldmaidens, Spearbrothers, Warchief, and Prophet Seer. those i listed are class.
barbarians are very wide range of tribal warrior race made up of several tribes. Conan is a barbarian, and he can be "freebooter", "Upsurper", "Buccaneer". "wanderer", and "conqueror".
some barbarian can be rouge, thief, assassin, or brawler, they can even sings as bards/skalds.
> mention about plate armor for barbarians, i know it seem wrong, for heavy armor set are for "Weapon Master" class. to play barbarians they use scales or tougher leather hides.
> dont understand why devs use "barbarians" as class, those are "Tribal" warrior race, not a class.
> it has Barbarian priest, it has barbarian warrior, it has barbarian chief, and it has barbarian maidens. viking barbarians has Shieldmaidens, Spearbrothers, Warchief, and Prophet Seer. those i listed are class.
>
> barbarians are very wide range of tribal warrior race made up of several tribes. Conan is a barbarian, and he can be "freebooter", "Upsurper", "Buccaneer". "wanderer", and "conqueror".
> some barbarian can be rouge, thief, assassin, or brawler, they can even sings as bards/skalds.
While I agree against the platemail, in the "DnD universe" in 5e, a barbarian is a class as well as a social group of tribal peoples.
I realize these games are not 'realistic', but they should try to hold together on some level of physics. As a newbie I can defeat the evil wasps in two seconds with my 'newbie stick'. I come back 80 levels later and my 'Arch-lords wand of galactic power' takes five minutes to kill a wasp? Get lost.
STUPID.