It seems to me like they have some formula, like if power X takes A time for CD and B casting time then it has C magnitude, and while that might work for some classes, it doesn't work for everything. Different class mechanics skew the end result in practice, and so I think maybe they may need to break the formula in some cases, and just use it as a general guide line, instead of hard-and-fast rules.
my god people. I don't think all the combos have been tested on toons yet to declare this class is better than the rest. stuff is still changing. all that happens when people go , wahhhh nerf em nerf em. is they get nerfed. the other classes won't be buffed. the class will just be nerfed into uselessness and the cycle begins anew. there is already such losses to the players in this game with this mod it seems self defeating to start this up..
calling out what is wrong with your class and what needs to be looked at to make it better seems more meaningful to me.
I would not mind if it were in another module, but one of the promises for this module would be the balance of classes. Currently CW is way ahead of the other classes, maybe an HR can even match. But apparently we will only have class changes in the next module where maybe another class is the most requested and such a balance promise never arrives.
I disagree. TR and HR are at the top of the list at the moment. We are 3rd. Please stop putting the CW under the axe.
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
I would not mind if it were in another module, but one of the promises for this module would be the balance of classes. Currently CW is way ahead of the other classes, maybe an HR can even match. But apparently we will only have class changes in the next module where maybe another class is the most requested and such a balance promise never arrives.
Lol pardon me for spending millions to get my char to 170k base power. even then i have been outdpsed by some trs and hrs in certain dungeons, sw are good too, OP is OP in the sense of it. Barbarians are ok, the only class i would agree needs dps buff would be fighters. but ofc we haven't tested the changes to see if they got any buff. Ppl looking for 3 cws have never played other characters or have only been running with bad dpses, no offense to anyone but even amongst the cws, there are bad players, i know cws with 180k power that cant do 50% damage as much as a tr with 120k power. so yes do some research before asking for nerfs and buffs and blabla. Pm punk for a guide on Sw dps, pm bardmin for a guide on Tr dps. Run with better players who actually know what they are doing and not just running succesor trash and boasting of having 25k IL while they cant even kill a mimic.
Have you tried all your class feats in a dungeon? not on dummies, tests on dummies dont go well with builds are alot of sinergies you do on dummies are difficult to put together against real enemies, mainly due to cc, movement, etc. Are you stats well balanced? companions? mounts? insignias? enchants? etc? i repeat, even amongst the cws, there are good ones and bad ones, same applies to all other classes. We dont currently even have ap gain on cw lol.
On the other hand, what i would like to see is the healing/tank side of it. All healers should be able to give shield, otherwise i'd be running with 2 OPs all day. All tanks should be able to absorb certain amount of damage for the party or even block it, at the current state of the game and especially in LMM being the end game dungeon, i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.
And for you admiral, you are ignoring the fact that every other class except cw, hr and tr have a second role, if barbarian, dc, op, gf are outdpsing any of the 3 then there will be no place for them in the game, hope you understand that.
Post edited by lardeson on
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
I would not mind if it were in another module, but one of the promises for this module would be the balance of classes. Currently CW is way ahead of the other classes, maybe an HR can even match. But apparently we will only have class changes in the next module where maybe another class is the most requested and such a balance promise never arrives.
Lol pardon me for spending millions to get my char to 170k base power. even then i have been outdpsed by some trs and hrs in certain dungeons, sw are good too, OP is OP in the sense of it. Barbarians are ok, the only class i would agree needs dps buff would be fighters. but ofc we haven't tested the changes to see if they got any buff. Ppl looking for 3 cws have never played other characters or have only been running with bad dpses, no offense to anyone but even amongst the cws, there are bad players, i know cws with 180k power that cant do 50% damage as much as a tr with 120k power. so yes do some research before asking for nerfs and buffs and blabla. Pm punk for a guide on Sw dps, pm bardmin for a guide on Tr dps. Run with better players who actually know what they are doing and not just running succesor trash and boasting of having 25k IL while they cant even kill a mimic.
Have you tried all your class feats in a dungeon? not on dummies, tests on dummies dont go well with builds are alot of sinergies you do on dummies are difficult to put together against real enemies, mainly due to cc, movement, etc. Are you stats well balanced? companions? mounts? insignias? enchants? etc? i repeat, even amongst the cws, there are good ones and bad ones, same applies to all other classes. We dont currently even have ap gain on cw lol.
On the other hand, what i would like to see is the healing/tank side of it. All healers should be able to give shield, otherwise i'd be running with 2 OPs all day. All tanks should be able to absorb certain amount of damage for the party or even block it, at the current state of the game and especially in LMM being the end game dungeon, i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.
And for you admiral, you are ignoring the fact that every other class except cw, hr and tr have a second role, if barbarian, dc, op, gf are outdpsing any of the 3 then there will be no place for them in the game, hope you understand that.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
I would not mind if it were in another module, but one of the promises for this module would be the balance of classes. Currently CW is way ahead of the other classes, maybe an HR can even match. But apparently we will only have class changes in the next module where maybe another class is the most requested and such a balance promise never arrives.
Lol pardon me for spending millions to get my char to 170k base power. even then i have been outdpsed by some trs and hrs in certain dungeons, sw are good too, OP is OP in the sense of it. Barbarians are ok, the only class i would agree needs dps buff would be fighters. but ofc we haven't tested the changes to see if they got any buff. Ppl looking for 3 cws have never played other characters or have only been running with bad dpses, no offense to anyone but even amongst the cws, there are bad players, i know cws with 180k power that cant do 50% damage as much as a tr with 120k power. so yes do some research before asking for nerfs and buffs and blabla. Pm punk for a guide on Sw dps, pm bardmin for a guide on Tr dps. Run with better players who actually know what they are doing and not just running succesor trash and boasting of having 25k IL while they cant even kill a mimic.
Have you tried all your class feats in a dungeon? not on dummies, tests on dummies dont go well with builds are alot of sinergies you do on dummies are difficult to put together against real enemies, mainly due to cc, movement, etc. Are you stats well balanced? companions? mounts? insignias? enchants? etc? i repeat, even amongst the cws, there are good ones and bad ones, same applies to all other classes. We dont currently even have ap gain on cw lol.
On the other hand, what i would like to see is the healing/tank side of it. All healers should be able to give shield, otherwise i'd be running with 2 OPs all day. All tanks should be able to absorb certain amount of damage for the party or even block it, at the current state of the game and especially in LMM being the end game dungeon, i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.
And for you admiral, you are ignoring the fact that every other class except cw, hr and tr have a second role, if barbarian, dc, op, gf are outdpsing any of the 3 then there will be no place for them in the game, hope you understand that.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
listen, we all got screwed one way or another here. you need to take it up with the devs not the other players who happen to have a pure dps toon now. you may not want two different roles but you have them and like it or not that's part of the balance of the classes and what the toons now encompass. probably time to ditch your barbie and play a pure dps class if that's what you want to do. the reality though is that you have more options than a dps has with your toon. you may not top paingiver but you can do a onthe fly change and get into a sought after place as a tank.
There seem to be some undocumented changes as well, as my stats (aside from Power, HP, and Accuracy, which are affected by Enchants, Runestones and Guild Boons so are expected) have changed between Live, Preview and Owlbear.
It’s about a 1k loss of ArP and Crit Avoid on my Paladin with Allure Augment.
My other checked characters show similar small shifts in stats.
—— Some quick checking in Well of Dragons says that the Heralds are going to be completable by a good party and the general zone is back to feeling like it did in pre-16 mods.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
And you need to understand that he’s right.
I run with DPS Barbarians regularly in LotMM, they do perfectly fine (if not top dps every time usually the gap is small enough to be insignificant given how things work). In fact I’ve seen every DPS class doing well in LotMM.
Also not every Barbarian wants to play DPS...
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I would not mind if it were in another module, but one of the promises for this module would be the balance of classes. Currently CW is way ahead of the other classes, maybe an HR can even match. But apparently we will only have class changes in the next module where maybe another class is the most requested and such a balance promise never arrives.
Lol pardon me for spending millions to get my char to 170k base power. even then i have been outdpsed by some trs and hrs in certain dungeons, sw are good too, OP is OP in the sense of it. Barbarians are ok, the only class i would agree needs dps buff would be fighters. but ofc we haven't tested the changes to see if they got any buff. Ppl looking for 3 cws have never played other characters or have only been running with bad dpses, no offense to anyone but even amongst the cws, there are bad players, i know cws with 180k power that cant do 50% damage as much as a tr with 120k power. so yes do some research before asking for nerfs and buffs and blabla. Pm punk for a guide on Sw dps, pm bardmin for a guide on Tr dps. Run with better players who actually know what they are doing and not just running succesor trash and boasting of having 25k IL while they cant even kill a mimic.
Have you tried all your class feats in a dungeon? not on dummies, tests on dummies dont go well with builds are alot of sinergies you do on dummies are difficult to put together against real enemies, mainly due to cc, movement, etc. Are you stats well balanced? companions? mounts? insignias? enchants? etc? i repeat, even amongst the cws, there are good ones and bad ones, same applies to all other classes. We dont currently even have ap gain on cw lol.
On the other hand, what i would like to see is the healing/tank side of it. All healers should be able to give shield, otherwise i'd be running with 2 OPs all day. All tanks should be able to absorb certain amount of damage for the party or even block it, at the current state of the game and especially in LMM being the end game dungeon, i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.
And for you admiral, you are ignoring the fact that every other class except cw, hr and tr have a second role, if barbarian, dc, op, gf are outdpsing any of the 3 then there will be no place for them in the game, hope you understand that.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
listen, we all got screwed one way or another here. you need to take it up with the devs not the other players who happen to have a pure dps toon now. you may not want two different roles but you have them and like it or not that's part of the balance of the classes and what the toons now encompass. probably time to ditch your barbie and play a pure dps class if that's what you want to do. the reality though is that you have more options than a dps has with your toon. you may not top paingiver but you can do a onthe fly change and get into a sought after place as a tank.
I'm not Barbarian, i play Warlock and i'm only DPS (three loadouts for Hellbringer only), so devs said that ALL classes with DPS path should be equally viable for its role, so we (Warlocks and Barbarians) had a ninja nerf because we are considered low tier DPS classes?, or like someone said....classes with DPS loadouts for solo (for Clerics and Warlocks) If i play a class because it's the class that is fun for me, and they sold me the class like a Damage Dealer, why i need to play other class that i can't enjoy? So, this game force me to play a CW, TR, HR if i want to play DPS? my 3 years playing DPS Warlock are nothing now? Because devs wanted to give warlock a healer path that I DON'T play? Where's the balance when we have TRUE DPS classes and second tier DPS paths. Have no sense.
Ppl who claim warlocks have a healer role need to run lomm with sw as only healer. Without lifescrolls & health stones. Any endgame content really, lomm being just the most glaring example. Soulweaver's best healing encounter has only 400 magnitude & requires soul sparks to use. Nothing to hit = no sparks = no healing (Hello, lomm 2nd boss). Only cleansing power damages the user and only cleanse others but not the warlock himself. Now look at the selection of healing powers op/dc have. Temp hp/shielding powers. Still gonna tell us with a straight face sw can heal hence should shup up and be happy with current dps/healing balance?
"Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks."
How Can You Break An Envenomed Artifact? After all, it was based on the intention you created for the 2019 players - ie Tales of Old - which you also praised for the preview and live version of MOD 16. .
You still haven't solved the neck APgain, which only gives 0.4% AP / 2 seconds instead of 4% Ap / 2 seconds - as you confirmed by changing the description.
Wizard (DPS character) should have a secondary ability for WIS to preview: + incoming healing + control resistance In the meantime, you released the LIVE version + outgoing healing instead of incoming healing. That is: Wizard is not a healer and should have a secondary ability CON (apgain + HP) instead of WIS.
Wizard arcanist has new DAILY for 80 lvl ..... got you completely out of the original performance tests, practically disposing of this direction.
How do you make sure your players trust you and make BUILD and like to come back to play when you make adjustments that break the playing context so that they can't rely on a 3 month old standard? Do you have a co-ordinator who oversees that you will not damage the good intentions already created by new changes?
Remember that WIZARDs are strong just because for historical reasons they have had to learn to make the most of the minimum - they virtually combine all energy sources including equipment and enchantment. The Wizard couldn't do big DMG without selfbuff on which he had to perform targeted spell rotations. Therefore, they have no problem adapting. However, they must not be limited by resources such as APgain. But if the system creates instability - they can leave and come back in a year. My personal perspective.
Atm ther's no reason to get R15 or something else.
Just check that - no dps at all.
Leg companions(outhealing +50%) + leg mount +leg insignias + full set of R15 ench.+basic set 990 = Bastion = 109k-147k. Healing Word = 43k-57k Cost = 65-75mil AD.
Epic companions(+40%)+No mount + no insignias at all + no any enchantments at all+basic set 990 = Bastion = 125k-166k. Healing Word = 47k-65k Cost = 3mil AD.
What is the reason to spend extra 60+mil for nothing ?!
Can you please rework some feats/skills for Devout paragon.
Let's say - Daunting Light change magnitude to 330 from 280. and Divinity cost to 65 from 80. Repeated Blessing - extend timer of H.Word , from ANY encounter skill.
In that case , High end players , would be able to mix and match such skills as "Bastion/Healing Word and Daunting light" To provide not only healing , but also some dmg (15-20% of other dps classes) in that case i can see the difference to pay 60+mil and help team to do an extra 7-8% of overall dmg. It would be the most expensive class.To achieve prop stats with no companions (cause all of them for outgoing healing) the character should be really high-end.
Hopefully you will read , and make the right desicion.
i just hope you read this and consider fixing it: Angel of Death (capstone of DC Arbiter) is the worst feat there is in any game i played. Since undermountain, i haven't been able to proc it once in real battle, because: 1: the power is only usefull for bosses, 2: you can't use it in bosses because it takes too many stacks to reach angel of death (about 4 mins of just dpsing,not considering dodging or doing mechanics) , and when you reach 30 stacks, the boss is already dead. This is my propose. Angel of death: (last 5 seconds) Requires 4 stacks to reach it. On proc refills 50 divinity per second Encounters are 10% more effective while in angel of death. Your first encounter that use divinity will have 0 divinity cost, and the following encounters have halfened divinity cost. This way, the feat will be more consistent (and at least can be used) and have a more action feeling rather than something strong but used once per lifetime.
Also, Hunter Ranger's Throw Caution is not procing Flurry, and Hindering Strike has a 5% to fail and don't do anything but going to cooldown.
im totally with you on the Angel of Death feat - 30 stacks - waaay too much, unreliable and uncontrollable... at most cases in boss fight it wont proc since it takes too long to stack ...
i just hope you read this and consider fixing it: Angel of Death (capstone of DC Arbiter) is the worst feat there is in any game i played. Since undermountain, i haven't been able to proc it once in real battle, because: 1: the power is only usefull for bosses, 2: you can't use it in bosses because it takes too many stacks to reach angel of death (about 4 mins of just dpsing,not considering dodging or doing mechanics) , and when you reach 30 stacks, the boss is already dead. This is my propose. Angel of death: (last 5 seconds) Requires 4 stacks to reach it. On proc refills 50 divinity per second Encounters are 10% more effective while in angel of death. Your first encounter that use divinity will have 0 divinity cost, and the following encounters have halfened divinity cost. This way, the feat will be more consistent (and at least can be used) and have a more action feeling rather than something strong but used once per lifetime.
Also, Hunter Ranger's Throw Caution is not procing Flurry, and Hindering Strike has a 5% to fail and don't do anything but going to cooldown.
perfect balance and inner balance? are equally bad. one relies on completely skewing your stats to achieve the stat balance the feat requires for its divinity gain function.....
and the final feat requires you to alternate your rotation and also to slot radiant and fire encounters, when this is not the most effective way to play arbiter.......for boss fights it works out ok "if" you have the daunting light feat for forgemaster, then you dont need to aim DL and can alternate between FF and DL easily.
sudden verdict and piercing javelin are about the only useful feats arbiter has
its like they just drew up all these ideas without ever actually playing the class, then just dumped it on us and said "have a nice day!"
totally with you here.
Also speaking as of pvp we are the only class that has almost to non of a control effect. Please dont even bother looking at chains since it totally garbage, requires time to castm deals no damage and gets removed with any damage done to the target.
Sunburst is not ideal too, i would love to have GEAS with some sort of daze effect (Not even asking for stunm which is most prolly too much) ... Please devs consider adding 2-3 sec DAZE effect to GEAS.
"The health of all enemies (including bosses) has been reduced by 10%." ... there're some enemies in MEs that seem to have more HP then bosses, i doubt that reducing their HP by only 10% will be enough to even matter.
"Beholders now consistently deal damage and status effects to players caught inside their red AoE damage indicators." ... there's something strange going on with those red markers, i'm in the clear but i still get hit with something from some enemies, it fells like the red marker aren't showing the full range of the attack. Or when that Remorhaz boss in ME vomits it's 3 lines, the stuff on the ground allways seem to move a bit in the direction my character is trying to evade.
And are there any changes on the way in the companion department to make them a bit more usefull in fights again?
The only reason I posted that picture was to demonstrate that the class unbalance continues. I have many friends DC's and GF's who are DPS and can not group for LoMM. I do not care if my main class is the top DPS, I can break the damn mimic's in Nostura with some ease up, except that one of the reasons for all the changes that came with the new module was to facilitate class balance and that damage difference would be around 5% from one to another. Currently classes that only have DPS give up to 25% more damage than some classes that have 2 paths.
About the changes announced in the patch notes, I would just like to highlight this change:
"Enchantments All Enchantments and Runestones, aside from Bonding Runestones, have had their item level and stats doubled. Enchantments are now affected less by level scaling downward, while gear is affected a little more. "
That broke the economy for a long time, devalued most of the enchants, stones and brands. You should have the notion that a player who spent 2 million AD to build an enchant that was Bis for his char, having to negotiate it at 450k because from one day to night he became lousy like most enchantments because the scale is very aggressive (it was) where it hurt you the most in the evolution of char. Every module is launched new equipment precisely to allow the new players do not distance themselves from the final group. In addition there are several events, such as 2x campaigns, 2x stone and so many others to help them in this climb.
"Quote" rel="giz#2086"> And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
So what you are saying is that, because you cant play a Sw or a Barbie properly, that the class sux? if you want we can do an experiment, i'll give 2 different people my cw character for a test, lets see if one doesn't do better than another with the same setup, 2 different players on same character doesn't mean they'll both perform as well. I LMM with Sw most of the time, if not all the same, at the same time, i run with cws that do less damage than them. so yes, i repeat myself and highly advice you go do some researches before complaining about this and that.
Prior to mod15, specifically between mod12 and 15, Cw wasn't viable as dps, mainly because Gwf and gf were on the top, but did we still do dungeons? did we still play? yes, we had a second role then buy going into Mof and buffing/debuffing with class features, feats and renegade-oppresor, those who had more dps than others even in the debuff build, would go thaum instead of oppresor, in the same debuff build, 2 players with the same stuff would do different damage and this would influence the run to be faster or slower. What am i trying to say with this? you playing a class that is good, doesn't mean you are good. Now go Pm Punk, tell him lardy sent you and ask him to share a guide with you about sw dps. Whenever im not running anything, i inspect my FL and this dude is always in LMM, as for barbies, i haven't ran much with them, maybe 2, hence why i said they were "ok". Also even if theorically barbies did more damage than cw, that wouldn't happen in LMM as you cant one shot mobs and sws/cws have the ranged advantages, they can support heals/tanks on mimics, they can dps from distance without compromising theirselves much. If you dont want a tank class, play tr, if you dont want a healer class, play cw or ranger. Go ask Fenrick for a ranger guide.
What you can also do is make a cw, compare their cooldowns with that of the sw, compare the cooldown-magnitude on cw with that of the sw, on my lvl 80 cw, only arcanist path, the lowest cd we have is 7s.
Now on the other path, thaumaturge, which is what most of the cws play, the average cd is 15.83s (summed all the cds from encounters and divided by 10 which is the amount of encounters we have) so our total cd would be 158,3s. Our average magnitude is 280, same calculation. Average cd on a lvl 37 sw 10,42s, average magnitude 169 (doesn't include extra damage per stack from infernal spheres, nor blades, just took the base for all). Average cd on Barbie 16,2s, average magnitude 336. This is a lvl 36 barbie.
For Cw: Mag/s = 17,7 for sw Mag/s = 16,2 for barbie Mag/s = 20,7
I repeat, sw extra damage from stacks were not added, even then as you can clearly see, if we consider the difference between barbie and cw then compare that same difference between cw-sw, its little to nothing, but can cw and sw beat barbies in dungeons? yes? why? cos we have ranged advantage. Could there be class mechanics and features not working properly on all classes? Yes, just like with every mod.
If all things considered working properly, what can barbies do to cut the ranged advantage? they have super speed and are tanky enough to rush ahead like they always do before the ranger starts hitting? Yes Yes Yes and YES. And i'll repeat myself again, learn how to play, just having everything bis will not automatically make you a good player or dps in this case, not if you dont know your character. I for myself, i have wasted atleast 10 million AD just to test companions until i found a proper balance, the 10 Million is for companions that were useless at the end of the test, not the current ones im using, includes, polar bear cub, owlbear cub, cockatrice, golden lion, manticore, wolfie, etc. Have u done the same?
Talking about companions, sw and cw have 3 offense slots, poor barbies who now considered to be primarily tank class, have 1 offense slot. Sw and Cw are more or less on the same level of dps, ofc, in the right hands.
Post edited by lardeson on
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Enemies and Encounters Items and Economy Artifact Gear Artifacts
Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The AP Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks.
Symbol of Fire: This artifact should now properly show its cooldown timer.
So you are nerfing the Envenomed storyteller with fixing AP Gain on some classes? where encounters only give 1% ap and most of the time give 0%. At wills giving only 0.5% with exceptions of charged atwills. I did post videos about this bug, and have pointed it out since the mod dropped, still no word on it?
I tried it and the book seems ok now with the ap gain (i mean it was pretty much broken that u could throw a daily just by activating the book), what needs rework is the 2nd part you say. Im getting on hb warlock 1% on at wills and 1% on encounters, and ap gain does nothing with those small numbers.
I did a bit of testing on owlbear (you know i'm getting tired of being a non paid tester). This is definitely a step in the right direction and future patches should be done like this with clear info and no ninja patches on live that break more things. The game still has much work to do. Only thing that doesn't sound well to me is the 10% hp reduction, considering that with the stats doubled we get to kill them faster. And enchantment doubling is pretty much needed, it turns the leveling of enchantments useful and impactful again
For the record, I am not trolling. I am just very exasperated with these illogical nerfs.
- With all of these changes, why does it matter whether we refine anything now if the new scaling system simply undoes everything? - Wouldn't it be better just to get rid of refinement altogether since it is now completely pointless? - What is the point of running group content when I am seeing a scaling penalty based on the strongest player in the group applying party-wide, thus dooming the entire party to failure? - What is the point of leveling when a low-level character performs like Superman and a high-level character performs like Spongebob Squarepants? - Would it not make more sense just to get rid of leveling characters altogether and have everybody with vanilla stats and make all weapons and gear cosmetic only?
This is all so very disheartening...
I want the old Neverwinter back.
(And by the way, my Wizard is still Tanking in group content - drawing agro like crazy and keeping the rest of party alive. Maybe you should just give Wizards a choice between DPS or Tank build?)
Post edited by caldochaud#4880 on
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
... the point is not only the alpha dps class of this game stay behind, but the mess of the feats too. "tradeoffs w/o great rewards, a lot of feats for encounters and dailys that can be perfectly ignored w/o problems to your game play - that means, at least 3 tiers of wasted level points - and so on. looks like you have two or three devs doing that class designes, so, looks impossible have some "balance" in that point.
so no... that is not about "historical reasons" or have a tank path. barbarians are incomplete as anything else we see in this patch notes (that is not my opinion, the dev said that).
ps: the irony is that gwfs are a lot more fun now. so... to me the better for now is adjust some damages for class features and atwills. maybe up battle rage for 25% - up to 15%, etc.
If you consider classes that have 2 styles of game or as tank or as healer are forced to play in that style because the DPS is bad, I can not do anything, since it is your opinion, but we were promised a viable DPS path and so far I have not yet found such a path, if it exists.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
Enemies and Encounters Items and Economy Artifact Gear Artifacts
Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The AP Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks.
Symbol of Fire: This artifact should now properly show its cooldown timer.
So you are nerfing the Envenomed storyteller with fixing AP Gain on some classes? where encounters only give 1% ap and most of the time give 0%. At wills giving only 0.5% with exceptions of charged atwills. I did post videos about this bug, and have pointed it out since the mod dropped, still no word on it?
I tried it and the book seems ok now with the ap gain (i mean it was pretty much broken that u could throw a daily just by activating the book), what needs rework is the 2nd part you say. Im getting on hb warlock 1% on at wills and 1% on encounters, and ap gain does nothing with those small numbers.
I did a bit of testing on owlbear (you know i'm getting tired of being a non paid tester). This is definitely a step in the right direction and future patches should be done like this with clear info and no ninja patches on live that break more things. The game still has much work to do. Only thing that doesn't sound well to me is the 10% hp reduction, considering that with the stats doubled we get to kill them faster. And enchantment doubling is pretty much needed, it turns the leveling of enchantments useful and impactful again
I do agree that its abit off, but does it make alot more sense to fix the current lack of ap before fixing the only source of ap gain these classes have?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
If you consider classes that have 2 styles of game or as tank or as healer are forced to play in that style because the DPS is bad, I can not do anything, since it is your opinion, but we were promised a viable DPS path and so far I have not yet found such a path, if it exists.
No, thats not my point, if you saw my last comment before yours, you can see gwf shouldn't be doing less dps, sw shouldn't either, the issue here is that there could be some feats not working on these classes, but not the fact that cw and tr are doing "too much" damage. Barbie from what it looks is mainly considered a tank, otherwise it makes no sense why they have 3 defense slots on companion. If you are not happy with this, you go to the devs, but do not ask for them to nerf other classes, simple go with something like "hey devs, we dont want a secondary role on barbies nor sws, we just want to be dpses". Although if i recall, it was the same sws crying about not being able to queue as "healers" now you want to be both equally good as dps and healers? think for urself where that would leave the other healers and dpses. imagine everyone running 3 sw dpses, 1 sw heal and 1 tank.
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
1
kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
I see Dire Wolf proc fairly regularly and the mob stops what it was doing when that happens.
I used to see my Dire Wolf proc (back on 3/30), just not recently. I've tried Cockatrice, Dire Wolf, and Manticore on Live and they don't proc. On preview currently after 369 attacks, neither Tenebrous (2 R12's) or Cockatrice proc at this moment (from ACT log).
Well I was stupid, and missed that it was on Owlbear. I re-tested Tenebrous, DireWolf, Manticore, and Cockatrice. Dire Wolf works, Manticore & Cocktrice still do not. Tenebrous proc's but the % doesn't match after the first enchantment, much as the bug report described.
> @kieranmtorn said: > I see Dire Wolf proc fairly regularly and the mob stops what it was doing when that happens. > > I used to see my Dire Wolf proc (back on 3/30), just not recently. I've tried Cockatrice, Dire Wolf, and Manticore on Live and they don't proc. On preview currently after 369 attacks, neither Tenebrous (2 R12's) or Cockatrice proc at this moment (from ACT log). > > > > Well I was stupid, and missed that it was on Owlbear. I re-tested Tenebrous, DireWolf, Manticore, and Cockatrice. Dire Wolf works, Manticore & Cocktrice still do not. Tenebrous proc's but the % doesn't match after the first enchantment, much as the bug report described.
Dire wolf effect does work, but the added damage doesn't proc, from what I can tell. Rust monster effect doesn't work though and seems to be related. It's also worse at higher levels, so...?
Comments
Currently SW will damage only in party armless DD
calling out what is wrong with your class and what needs to be looked at to make it better seems more meaningful to me.
TR and HR are at the top of the list at the moment. We are 3rd. Please stop putting the CW under the axe.
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
Have you tried all your class feats in a dungeon? not on dummies, tests on dummies dont go well with builds are alot of sinergies you do on dummies are difficult to put together against real enemies, mainly due to cc, movement, etc. Are you stats well balanced? companions? mounts? insignias? enchants? etc? i repeat, even amongst the cws, there are good ones and bad ones, same applies to all other classes. We dont currently even have ap gain on cw lol.
On the other hand, what i would like to see is the healing/tank side of it. All healers should be able to give shield, otherwise i'd be running with 2 OPs all day. All tanks should be able to absorb certain amount of damage for the party or even block it, at the current state of the game and especially in LMM being the end game dungeon, i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.
And for you admiral, you are ignoring the fact that every other class except cw, hr and tr have a second role, if barbarian, dc, op, gf are outdpsing any of the 3 then there will be no place for them in the game, hope you understand that.
what we want to know is WHEN the changes will come.
There seem to be some undocumented changes as well, as my stats (aside from Power, HP, and Accuracy, which are affected by Enchants, Runestones and Guild Boons so are expected) have changed between Live, Preview and Owlbear.
It’s about a 1k loss of ArP and Crit Avoid on my Paladin with Allure Augment.
My other checked characters show similar small shifts in stats.
——
Some quick checking in Well of Dragons says that the Heralds are going to be completable by a good party and the general zone is back to feeling like it did in pre-16 mods.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I run with DPS Barbarians regularly in LotMM, they do perfectly fine (if not top dps every time usually the gap is small enough to be insignificant given how things work). In fact I’ve seen every DPS class doing well in LotMM.
Also not every Barbarian wants to play DPS...
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
How Can You Break An Envenomed Artifact? After all, it was based on the intention you created for the 2019 players - ie Tales of Old - which you also praised for the preview and live version of MOD 16. .
You still haven't solved the neck APgain, which only gives 0.4% AP / 2 seconds instead of 4% Ap / 2 seconds - as you confirmed by changing the description.
Wizard (DPS character) should have a secondary ability for WIS to preview:
+ incoming healing
+ control resistance
In the meantime, you released the LIVE version + outgoing healing instead of incoming healing. That is: Wizard is not a healer and should have a secondary ability CON (apgain + HP) instead of WIS.
Wizard arcanist has new DAILY for 80 lvl ..... got you completely out of the original performance tests, practically disposing of this direction.
How do you make sure your players trust you and make BUILD and like to come back to play when you make adjustments that break the playing context so that they can't rely on a 3 month old standard? Do you have a co-ordinator who oversees that you will not damage the good intentions already created by new changes?
please rework Devouted Cleric.
Atm ther's no reason to get R15 or something else.
Just check that - no dps at all.
Leg companions(outhealing +50%) + leg mount +leg insignias + full set of R15 ench.+basic set 990 =
Bastion = 109k-147k. Healing Word = 43k-57k Cost = 65-75mil AD.
Epic companions(+40%)+No mount + no insignias at all + no any enchantments at all+basic set 990 =
Bastion = 125k-166k. Healing Word = 47k-65k Cost = 3mil AD.
What is the reason to spend extra 60+mil for nothing ?!
Can you please rework some feats/skills for Devout paragon.
Let's say - Daunting Light change magnitude to 330 from 280. and Divinity cost to 65 from 80.
Repeated Blessing - extend timer of H.Word , from ANY encounter skill.
In that case , High end players , would be able to mix and match such skills as "Bastion/Healing Word and Daunting light"
To provide not only healing , but also some dmg (15-20% of other dps classes) in that case i can see the difference to pay 60+mil and help team to do an extra 7-8% of overall dmg. It would be the most expensive class.To achieve prop stats with no companions (cause all of them for outgoing healing) the character should be really high-end.
Hopefully you will read , and make the right desicion.
Thank you.
Also speaking as of pvp we are the only class that has almost to non of a control effect.
Please dont even bother looking at chains since it totally garbage, requires time to castm deals no damage and gets removed with any damage done to the target.
Sunburst is not ideal too, i would love to have GEAS with some sort of daze effect (Not even asking for stunm which is most prolly too much) ... Please devs consider adding 2-3 sec DAZE effect to GEAS.
... there're some enemies in MEs that seem to have more HP then bosses, i doubt that reducing their HP by only 10% will be enough to even matter.
"Beholders now consistently deal damage and status effects to players caught inside their red AoE damage indicators."
... there's something strange going on with those red markers, i'm in the clear but i still get hit with something from some enemies, it fells like the red marker aren't showing the full range of the attack.
Or when that Remorhaz boss in ME vomits it's 3 lines, the stuff on the ground allways seem to move a bit in the direction my character is trying to evade.
And are there any changes on the way in the companion department to make them a bit more usefull in fights again?
About the changes announced in the patch notes, I would just like to highlight this change:
"Enchantments
All Enchantments and Runestones, aside from Bonding Runestones, have had their item level and stats doubled.
Enchantments are now affected less by level scaling downward, while gear is affected a little more. "
That broke the economy for a long time, devalued most of the enchants, stones and brands. You should have the notion that a player who spent 2 million AD to build an enchant that was Bis for his char, having to negotiate it at 450k because from one day to night he became lousy like most enchantments because the scale is very aggressive (it was) where it hurt you the most in the evolution of char. Every module is launched new equipment precisely to allow the new players do not distance themselves from the final group. In addition there are several events, such as 2x campaigns, 2x stone and so many others to help them in this climb.
And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.
So what you are saying is that, because you cant play a Sw or a Barbie properly, that the class sux? if you want we can do an experiment, i'll give 2 different people my cw character for a test, lets see if one doesn't do better than another with the same setup, 2 different players on same character doesn't mean they'll both perform as well. I LMM with Sw most of the time, if not all the same, at the same time, i run with cws that do less damage than them. so yes, i repeat myself and highly advice you go do some researches before complaining about this and that.
Prior to mod15, specifically between mod12 and 15, Cw wasn't viable as dps, mainly because Gwf and gf were on the top, but did we still do dungeons? did we still play? yes, we had a second role then buy going into Mof and buffing/debuffing with class features, feats and renegade-oppresor, those who had more dps than others even in the debuff build, would go thaum instead of oppresor, in the same debuff build, 2 players with the same stuff would do different damage and this would influence the run to be faster or slower. What am i trying to say with this? you playing a class that is good, doesn't mean you are good. Now go Pm Punk, tell him lardy sent you and ask him to share a guide with you about sw dps. Whenever im not running anything, i inspect my FL and this dude is always in LMM, as for barbies, i haven't ran much with them, maybe 2, hence why i said they were "ok". Also even if theorically barbies did more damage than cw, that wouldn't happen in LMM as you cant one shot mobs and sws/cws have the ranged advantages, they can support heals/tanks on mimics, they can dps from distance without compromising theirselves much. If you dont want a tank class, play tr, if you dont want a healer class, play cw or ranger. Go ask Fenrick for a ranger guide.
What you can also do is make a cw, compare their cooldowns with that of the sw, compare the cooldown-magnitude on cw with that of the sw, on my lvl 80 cw, only arcanist path, the lowest cd we have is 7s.
Now on the other path, thaumaturge, which is what most of the cws play, the average cd is 15.83s (summed all the cds from encounters and divided by 10 which is the amount of encounters we have) so our total cd would be 158,3s. Our average magnitude is 280, same calculation. Average cd on a lvl 37 sw 10,42s, average magnitude 169 (doesn't include extra damage per stack from infernal spheres, nor blades, just took the base for all). Average cd on Barbie 16,2s, average magnitude 336. This is a lvl 36 barbie.
For Cw: Mag/s = 17,7
for sw Mag/s = 16,2
for barbie Mag/s = 20,7
I repeat, sw extra damage from stacks were not added, even then as you can clearly see, if we consider the difference between barbie and cw then compare that same difference between cw-sw, its little to nothing, but can cw and sw beat barbies in dungeons? yes? why? cos we have ranged advantage. Could there be class mechanics and features not working properly on all classes? Yes, just like with every mod.
If all things considered working properly, what can barbies do to cut the ranged advantage? they have super speed and are tanky enough to rush ahead like they always do before the ranger starts hitting? Yes Yes Yes and YES. And i'll repeat myself again, learn how to play, just having everything bis will not automatically make you a good player or dps in this case, not if you dont know your character. I for myself, i have wasted atleast 10 million AD just to test companions until i found a proper balance, the 10 Million is for companions that were useless at the end of the test, not the current ones im using, includes, polar bear cub, owlbear cub, cockatrice, golden lion, manticore, wolfie, etc. Have u done the same?
Talking about companions, sw and cw have 3 offense slots, poor barbies who now considered to be primarily tank class, have 1 offense slot. Sw and Cw are more or less on the same level of dps, ofc, in the right hands.
I did a bit of testing on owlbear (you know i'm getting tired of being a non paid tester). This is definitely a step in the right direction and future patches should be done like this with clear info and no ninja patches on live that break more things. The game still has much work to do. Only thing that doesn't sound well to me is the 10% hp reduction, considering that with the stats doubled we get to kill them faster. And enchantment doubling is pretty much needed, it turns the leveling of enchantments useful and impactful again
- With all of these changes, why does it matter whether we refine anything now if the new scaling system simply undoes everything?
- Wouldn't it be better just to get rid of refinement altogether since it is now completely pointless?
- What is the point of running group content when I am seeing a scaling penalty based on the strongest player in the group applying party-wide, thus dooming the entire party to failure?
- What is the point of leveling when a low-level character performs like Superman and a high-level character performs like Spongebob Squarepants?
- Would it not make more sense just to get rid of leveling characters altogether and have everybody with vanilla stats and make all weapons and gear cosmetic only?
This is all so very disheartening...
I want the old Neverwinter back.
(And by the way, my Wizard is still Tanking in group content - drawing agro like crazy and keeping the rest of party alive. Maybe you should just give Wizards a choice between DPS or Tank build?)
so no... that is not about "historical reasons" or have a tank path. barbarians are incomplete as anything else we see in this patch notes (that is not my opinion, the dev said that).
ps: the irony is that gwfs are a lot more fun now. so... to me the better for now is adjust some damages for class features and atwills. maybe up battle rage for 25% - up to 15%, etc.
> I see Dire Wolf proc fairly regularly and the mob stops what it was doing when that happens.
>
> I used to see my Dire Wolf proc (back on 3/30), just not recently. I've tried Cockatrice, Dire Wolf, and Manticore on Live and they don't proc. On preview currently after 369 attacks, neither Tenebrous (2 R12's) or Cockatrice proc at this moment (from ACT log).
>
>
>
> Well I was stupid, and missed that it was on Owlbear. I re-tested Tenebrous, DireWolf, Manticore, and Cockatrice. Dire Wolf works, Manticore & Cocktrice still do not. Tenebrous proc's but the % doesn't match after the first enchantment, much as the bug report described.
Dire wolf effect does work, but the added damage doesn't proc, from what I can tell. Rust monster effect doesn't work though and seems to be related. It's also worse at higher levels, so...?