> - Flame Strike losing its knock-up is unfortunate, because it was just fun.
Shucks Flame Strike is my favorite Cleric power!!! Please consider returning the knock-up. I love it and I'm sure other Clerics do as well
This is a minor point, but I totally agree. Clerics spend most of the game dancing the Macarena with a holy symbol waving around. Not very cool visuals. Every now and then it is very satisfying for a Cleric to yell
"Suprise, motherHAMSTER!"
and have a bad-HAMSTER NUKE VFX that blasts the mob 30 feet in the air. lol Love it!
I'll look into reintroducing the knock up on Flamestrike. It will be in a post launch build, but I realize this is a fairly popular request, and there's no harm in reintroducing it.
Hey everyone! During our livestream today some of you were asking if I was still alive due to my sluggish responses recently and I just wanted to update you all that I am still very much alive, but that I have been devoting all of the evening time I had dedicated to replying to these threads to getting everything locked down ahead of our internal gold deadline so that our QA department has sufficient time to hammer on things ahead of launch. I have been skimming through posts as much as possible and hope to square away some time soon to answer more questions.
In the meantime, I'd like to apologize for how quiet I've been and let you all know that I absolutely have been reading, will continue to read, and will make the time to respond to your feedback and questions. I won't forget about them.
Cleric was one of the last classes I finished working on during my initial pass, and I've been unable to return to it over the last few weeks, but I am actively working on Cleric right now, and will have changes to talk about soon. I appreciate all of your patience.
I mean i used to heal the same in pvp just before you have nurfed my bastion of healing. Lock is a support class just like Arbiter, so by any means should it heal the way they heal now. Better then the Healers imo.
Hope Locks healing will be adjusted before the mod goes live. thx
The effectiveness of Soulweaver is something we're keeping a close eye on, and will continue to adjust as we see how they perform both in PvE and PvP.
Apologies for leaving you all in the dark for so long (insert flashlight joke here.) I do hope you'll find some things to like in this week's feat adjustments.
That lock lock was specced for healing as in soulweaver specc.
Personaly i havnt tested pvp yet but the comparison there is inaccurate
Well, tell me then how come being an Arbiter with dps spec along with a moderate TR we could not kill him BUT he has killed us both. Not only he managed to survive through our burst but to kill us one by one
I mean im alright if lock being a healer (supporter) would not be able to kill me. but unfortunately he is able to kill and heal like a boss. Same goes to tanks.
Because healing warlocks depend on damage to heal, and also, probably more importantly, Arbiter does as much dps but significantly less healing than a healing specced warlock. I addressed this in a previous post, it's bad for both pve and pvp.
We used to heal as much as locks, before the bastion nurf to the ground. Since we had that, i suggest the same should go for locks. isnt it ?
Arbiter won't be receiving any major healing improvements, but Soulweaver may very well be in need of some nerfs to DPS.
Even if they aren't amazing, he at least listened to how much we hated the power combination feats locking down our powers. I think they're a definite improvement.
Glad to hear you're enjoying some of the feat changes. Even if I don't end up implementing exactly your suggestion, or if I go for long periods of time without replying, I am absolutely listening to all of your feedback!
VERY sad to see that Heavy Sun has been replaced. Arbiter damage powers in groups *must* always be Searing Javelin and Daunting Light, and I have never been a fan of Daunting Light... less so now that if I want to DPS, it's my only option. The synergy with the "old" feat made it very easy to build pips of empowerment. Please consider bringing this back to give more options. Hitting multiple targets with Sunburst and gaining almost full pips of empowerment was a great way to start a fight, even in solo play.
I'm a little confused by the at will "Soothe". It has a divinity cost, and divinity can be depleted. This means there are times you cannot use your at will, which seems to be the opposite of what an "at-will" is. I do like the idea of a healing at will, and I don't think the price to cast this is too much of a burden, I am just confused that it has any cost to cast at all.
In regards to Heavy Sun, I realize this was a very popular mechanic—and although it won't be returning in time for launch, I am considering making adjustments. In regards to Soothe, the divinity cost and speed at which you can use Soothe vs. the rate at which divinity is regained, you shouldn't really be in a situation where you can't cast Soothe, it's more like your divinity regain is slowed when using it, but I realize this is not a popular change and I will be keeping a close eye on it.
@asterdahl Is there any way we can have a source of CA from a feat or class feature and a way to speed up our cooldowns from feats and not boon/ charisma?
That lock lock was specced for healing as in soulweaver specc.
Personaly i havnt tested pvp yet but the comparison there is inaccurate
Well, tell me then how come being an Arbiter with dps spec along with a moderate TR we could not kill him BUT he has killed us both. Not only he managed to survive through our burst but to kill us one by one
I mean im alright if lock being a healer (supporter) would not be able to kill me. but unfortunately he is able to kill and heal like a boss. Same goes to tanks.
Because healing warlocks depend on damage to heal, and also, probably more importantly, Arbiter does as much dps but significantly less healing than a healing specced warlock. I addressed this in a previous post, it's bad for both pve and pvp.
We used to heal as much as locks, before the bastion nurf to the ground. Since we had that, i suggest the same should go for locks. isnt it ?
Arbiter won't be receiving any major healing improvements, but Soulweaver may very well be in need of some nerfs to DPS.
You could look at something else if healing is the primary concern. When Pillar of Power was changed and just limited to be used on the Soulweaver only. It had as one of the changes to that power that when under its effect Healing are increased by 10%. Would have rather that power had been left the same as it was prier to that change and allow to be used on both paths. One should be aware that the Lock has always been a better healer than the cleric. And yes I play both. The only reason it was not an issue before is that nobody cared about healing. But adding another 10% on top of that healing shows just how little this Dev. team understands the Warlock class. But please go ahead and do what this company does best, nerf us rather than fixing issues that have been pointed out without any corrections being done other than nerfs.
@Asterdal, you for responses. Also today I was trying out the new feat on Arbiter that refills divinity if you get 6 shifts evenly and was having a hamster time. Both sunburst and searing javelin gave more than fire stack if they hit multiple enemies. Which immediately cleared my stacks. DL however never gave multiple stacks. So unless I was in ST I was completely unable to manage the stacks of shift evenly.
For devout, the rhythm of the heavens and battle prayer, I played with them some, but either they're not proccing at all, or there's no icon and I couldn't see a visual indicator of proccing. So, how am I supposed to know when to do my pray thing with these?
Edit: sorry I can't make this blue. My tablet is a controlling azzhat and won't let me tonight.
@Asterdal, you for responses. Also today I was trying out the new feat on Arbiter that refills divinity if you get 6 shifts evenly and was having a hamster time. Both sunburst and searing javelin gave more than fire stack if they hit multiple enemies. Which immediately cleared my stacks. DL however never gave multiple stacks. So unless I was in ST I was completely unable to manage the stacks of shift evenly.
For devout, the rhythm of the heavens and battle prayer, I played with them some, but either they're not proccing at all, or there's no icon and I couldn't see a visual indicator of proccing. So, how am I supposed to know when to do my pray thing with these?</p>
Totally with you, Angel of Death seems like PVE feat and is synergizing just fine. However Perfect Balance feat looks more of a pvp feat and can be a pain to use, since it has no margin of error as well as getting 6 stacks of each radiance is tricky to monitor. I suggest reduce stacks from 6 to 3 or 4 so that it could be more viable, otherwise its gonna be a big no to almost everyone.
Tipping Scales totally has to be replaced by the Sunburst so we can have a choice between different play styles.
I don't know if getting to 6 stacks would really be so bad if sunburst and searing didn't clear it every time I cast. The synergy there with how I manage my judgement is actually a nice addition to my playstyle, and I really wish it worked better. I'll swap to Angel and see if I have a better time.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Apologies for leaving you all in the dark for so long (insert flashlight joke here.) I do hope you'll find some things to like in this week's feat adjustments.
Ah, yes. The feats are much more interesting than before, and as I said before, I consider clerics ready for M16 - not perfect, but perfectly playable. Some tuning might be needed, or some fixes, but nobody is going to claim that Clerics are an unplayable mess (I cannot say the same for some of the other classes, unfortunately, but that's not relevant in this thread).
I had some time over the weekend, both in L80 content like expeditions and scaled-down content like doing dailies in Barovia and it just works. Sure, there were issues (and quite frankly, I absolutely do not consider what is on Preview ready for release), but those issues were not Cleric-specific (so, not relevant to this thread).
I guess what I am saying, is that from my perspective, I think any further changes to clerics can wait a month or two ... just focus your effort on the other classes you are responsible for - they need it more.
I do have some observations, though.
For Arbiter, it feels like there is a big discrepancy between Burning and Radiant powers. Just try playing for a while using only Radiant powers, and then switch and use only Burning powers - either I am doing something sub-optimal, or there is a big difference in the maximum DPS I can obtain - and I really do not see a justification for that.
Again for Arbiter, it feels we are being tied down to a single rotation of powers - I mean, there are certain powers that any Arbiter Cleric just HAS to use to get decent DPS, and several powers that just will never be used (at least for PvE (PvP is a whole different thing, and I'm not going there).
I am going to assume many Clerics will have 3 different builds - Devout for group play, Arbiter for group play and Arbiter for solo play (and maybe one or two PvP builds - I don't personally care about those). Now, the issue is with Crit% versus CA. It is hard to max out both CA and Crit%. For Devout, the choice is absolutely clear - go for Crit as heals can crit, but with the minimal damage, CA just does not do much anyhow. For Arbiter, things are more problematic. CA is "better" and in group play, it is reasonable to expect to have CA, but that's not the case for solo play. Clerics do not have any powers that automatically grant CA, and that puts them at a certain disadvantage, compared to some other DPS classes. We can obtain CA with a companion, but that means not using an augment. I mentioned earlier that feats should give meaningful choices - having a feat that gave temporary CA under some situations paired against a feat that gave temporary increased Crit Severity would be an ideal example of that.
Devout is boring - I mean, there is no way around that. It is less complex than the Arbiter, and quite frankly it does not feel very active and engaging. I don' t have any specific suggestions for improvement though - but personally I just intend not to play Devout, unless forced to - like if a guild run really needs a healer.
This new version of Neverwinter leaves me feeling like I'm watching an episode of the Power Rangers where they never even bother to summon their Zords, much less combine into a Megazord. We're all average adventurers beating bosses into submission with sticks. Initially I was really excited to hear what kinds of changes they had in store for us, but seeing the plan in action I have even less enthusiasm for the game than I did before. There's minimal character progression, minimal character individuality, and I went from feeling uber to feeling average. I didn't sign up to investing years of time and resources to end up with something barely better than average. It's just... sad.
Most cases of paralyze should now be able to be removed by cleanse. Since this post was made we have adjusted enemy damage, specifically we've increased the damage of enemy's "at-will" attacks in group content. Healing spells outside Bastion of Health have also been buffed to be more worthwhile, and some newly introduced feats should make for more active divinity management.
We're hoping that these changes should make healing significantly more interesting than it was over the past few weeks on preview. Moving forward, we would like to make cleanse a more active and important part of group play as well.
Making enemy basic attacks hit harder is ... one way to ensure that players are still "doing" something.
However, I don't think it will solve the issue of players disliking that their only contribution to the team's fight is effectively babysitting (ie, carrying the people that love to stand in red zones and watching the tank's HP go up and down) rather than actively contributing to the fight's pace.
Comparing healing abilities of the three classes, the raw heals need to take into account that OP shields 50% of damage with his main encounter. DC lost somehow the ability to mitigate damage , wich was the most powerfull ability for ages. At least I can´t find much abilities to mitigate effectively in mod 16. Astral Shiled can´t fill in the gap at all. I really can´t find much arguments for the class atm. From all my classes DC looks like the last one I want to invest into actually, since I dislike the actual playstyle too much..both paragons.
Comparing healing abilities of the three classes, the raw heals need to take into account that OP shields 50% of damage with his main encounter.
DC lost somehow the ability to mitigate damage , wich was the most powerfull ability for ages. At least I can´t find much abilities to mitigate effectively in mod 16. Astral Shiled can´t fill in the gap at all.
I really can´t find much arguments for the class atm. From all my classes DC looks like the last one I want to invest into actually, since I dislike the actual playstyle too much..both paragons.
Mitigation and buffs were gutted, much to our displeasure more from us than from anyone else. But I think the overall response to your complaint is unfortunately : it's okay that you don't like it. This is the playstyle that's been chosen for healer, and you play it or don't. We've been begging to get just one or two buffs back, but that seems to be a nada. Devout cleric heals. Period.
I still haven't found a rotation on where to place Divine glow, Chains and Prophecy. Right now, those powers represent a burden and have not real utility, specially DG and PoD's cooldowns. Break the spirit and geas are yet a problem. I wonder what, us clerics, did in the past to be penalized with such long cooldowns, most of cleric dps powers are non-viable.
Features
Soothing Prayer, Hallowed armor, Doomsayer are good features.
Pilgrim's light is only useful for solo dailies.
Expanded faith is really bad, previous holy fervor helped us better, divinity generation is lame now.
Critical insight is bad as well, maybe 50 divinity would compensate our slow generation.
light of scales' 10% is still low per pip, 20% would help.
Divine equilibrium can be better. Right now is non viabe. My suggestion is: Whenever your divinity isn't full, you deal 10% more damage.
Feats
Piercing Javelin
Why are we forced to one encounter instead of all damaging ones?
Rework => Your single target at wills have 10% chance to cause your next encounter power strike with 100% critical rate.
lightspeed
Same as previous one, we don't like to be forced to using certain powers as you are limiting us to one single build.
Rework => Your at wills powers have a 5% chance to grant combat advantage over the target for 5 seconds.
Focuse light
Again, this limited combo here would leave us with few divinity to build our next strategy and forcing us to build pips, which ends on a very boring process on long fights.
Rework => Your radiant powers grant a stack of "XxxX", at 10 stacks you trigger "XxxX", which adds an additional 200 magnitude to your next encounter or daily radiant power.
Tipping scales
This feat along divine glow, i found them useless to even using them on fights when an arbiter requires to maximixe their power and divine glow is a waste of an encounter due to its long cooldown.
Rework => Same as the previous suggestion, but for fire based powers.
Sudden verdict
I liked this new feat, i would suggest it to be 30%, considering cooldown base powers are long and divinity based ones consumed it very fast, it will trigger barely 1 time in a rotation.
Inner balance
What!? How come are we depending on fluctuating ratings, this makes it impossible to happen.
Rework => After using a daily power, for the next 10 secs, your at will powers fill your judgement gauge at max.
Angel of death
The feat is good, but i think too many stacks won't make it viable for critter/ elite monsters as they die fast, just long battles like orcus or atropal, and even in these fights, due to how bad divinity generation is, it will ony happen 1 or 2 times.
Rework => 10 stacks and 6s duration.
Perfect balance
This feat never works, I don't understand it, how am i supposed to fill 6 pips of both randiant and burning at same time? After 2-3 pips of any, it expires.
Edit: After some testing Sudden verdict was working very well. Focused light has to go along with conflagration to rotate decently, slow but kinda works. Perfect balance is complicated, we have to pay attention on what power to use to not mess it up, any rotation makes this dull and hard, while others classes have it easily for a last feat.
Angel of death is bugged, not triggering after channeling divinity Searing Javelin removes the stacks of radiant and burning shifts without being exceeded
If the answer for devout to do well in solo content is to run a feat that gives them 20% bonus damage when solo i am going to scream in frustration.
once arbiters get their damage boosted they will be in a fine place. I guess balancing them for damage while they are not running bastion makes sense since then they get stronger while not running it - since we don't have dedicated powers slotted in dedicated slots.
devout just feel dull atm. i just see their identity as glorified healbot atm. Everyone's comments just kinda cement that further. "of course they are going to be slower in content. they can heal." "they can;t do everything. That's what loadouts are for - just swap."
"tanks can kill beat things to death in pvp. and they are tanky"
maybe what the devout needs are bonus abilities from their feats when the solo class feature is active. And give that class feature out at level 1.
I get the feeling the current dev team doesn't really care that much about solo play or solo players. There has been an obvious push to get more people to play with other people in MOD16. I have also noticed is that much of our questions about solo play is either ignored or met with disingenuous replies that say something like "well, NW is a MMO". I just don't understand why they are doing this other than perhaps they feel if more people play together it will be more competitive and people will spend Zen to keep up? IDK. It baffles me.
We absolutely do care about solo players, and I apologize if I or anyone else on the team has given you an impression to the contrary. In regards to "disingenuous replies that say something like 'well, NW is a MMO',"—you've received replies to this effect from the development team, or from other players?
We recognize that some players enjoy group content, and others enjoy playing on their own. Of course, we do absolutely build group content, or create designs that encourage or promote trying out group content, but we still build content for solo play as well—and there is no specific shift in our design philosophy as it relates to solo vs. group play for Module 16.
@asterdahl I'd like to ask a very pointed question here. You, personally, have stated on numerous occasions in the forums and in direct replies to me both here and Reddit that, and I quote, "We do not intend for solo play to be significantly slowed". And yet, on all classes and PARTICULARLY arbiter cleric compared to Live DO, I'm seeing a 50-250% increase in time it takes to complete basically any solo content despite the huge jump in gear/stats. We move slower, we kill slower, there's downtime between engagements due to healing up and waiting for the glacially long cooldowns on absolutely everything. Comparing time to complete, for example, a Dread Ring minidungeon: My DO DC on Live could do Dread Spire in 3:30 consistently and occasionally as low as 3:00 flat. Now I'm looking at 10-12 minutes. For a single quest. Over an hour to do the full set of Dread Ring dailies (minus the Demonic Heroic daily since that's no longer even remotely soloable) vs. previously 15-20 minutes depending on my luck with Demonic Heroic spawns. I can't do some solo content AT ALL as of 4/13: For example, Stronghold minor heroics and the "go kill X named mob, even at 80, I'm consistently getting stomped. Sure, they're not 1-shots, but they're 80-90% of my health per hit so I'm dead in half a second anyway.
If the answer for devout to do well in solo content is to run a feat that gives them 20% bonus damage when solo i am going to scream in frustration.
once arbiters get their damage boosted they will be in a fine place. I guess balancing them for damage while they are not running bastion makes sense since then they get stronger while not running it - since we don't have dedicated powers slotted in dedicated slots.
devout just feel dull atm. i just see their identity as glorified healbot atm. Everyone's comments just kinda cement that further. "of course they are going to be slower in content. they can heal." "they can;t do everything. That's what loadouts are for - just swap."
"tanks can kill beat things to death in pvp. and they are tanky"
maybe what the devout needs are bonus abilities from their feats when the solo class feature is active. And give that class feature out at level 1.
I get the feeling the current dev team doesn't really care that much about solo play or solo players. There has been an obvious push to get more people to play with other people in MOD16. I have also noticed is that much of our questions about solo play is either ignored or met with disingenuous replies that say something like "well, NW is a MMO". I just don't understand why they are doing this other than perhaps they feel if more people play together it will be more competitive and people will spend Zen to keep up? IDK. It baffles me.
We absolutely do care about solo players, and I apologize if I or anyone else on the team has given you an impression to the contrary. In regards to "disingenuous replies that say something like 'well, NW is a MMO',"—you've received replies to this effect from the development team, or from other players?
We recognize that some players enjoy group content, and others enjoy playing on their own. Of course, we do absolutely build group content, or create designs that encourage or promote trying out group content, but we still build content for solo play as well—and there is no specific shift in our design philosophy as it relates to solo vs. group play for Module 16.
@asterdahl I'd like to ask a very pointed question here. You, personally, have stated on numerous occasions in the forums and in direct replies to me both here and Reddit that, and I quote, "We do not intend for solo play to be significantly slowed". And yet, on all classes and PARTICULARLY arbiter cleric compared to Live DO, I'm seeing a 50-250% increase in time it takes to complete basically any solo content despite the huge jump in gear/stats. We move slower, we kill slower, there's downtime between engagements due to healing up and waiting for the glacially long cooldowns on absolutely everything. Comparing time to complete, for example, a Dread Ring minidungeon: My DO DC on Live could do Dread Spire in 3:30 consistently and occasionally as low as 3:00 flat. Now I'm looking at 10-12 minutes. For a single quest. Over an hour to do the full set of Dread Ring dailies (minus the Demonic Heroic daily since that's no longer even remotely soloable) vs. previously 15-20 minutes depending on my luck with Demonic Heroic spawns. I can't do some solo content AT ALL as of 4/13: For example, Stronghold minor heroics and the "go kill X named mob, even at 80, I'm consistently getting stomped. Sure, they're not 1-shots, but they're 80-90% of my health per hit so I'm dead in half a second anyway.
So what gives? I feel lied to.
And before anybody goes "well you don't HAVE to do the FULL set of dailies"....not for Dread Ring, no, but you do for both sets of dailies in the SKT campaign (both SOMI and Lonelywood+Cold Run+Bryn). Which is already the longest and most annoying campaign, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE you don't get campaign currency for individual quests and only upon completion of the meta-quests. And then there's River District, again with the meta-quest that was already potentially extremely time consuming if you weren't able to hop instances to find HEs, and again the minor HE's are no longer remotely soloable for most classes.
On Live my best character can do all 6 SKT dailies in around 45 minutes, 55-60 if I get the fishing daily in SOMI. If I skip SOMI I can do the other 3 in about 15. On Preview my best character takes nearly 2 hours and my DC takes closer to 3. Mainly because of the more than double TTK. The packs of trolls that had the rune troll in it I used to be able to 1-shot the whole pack with a Daunting Light crit at ilvl 13k, and if it didn't crit the follow-up DG finished them. Now it's a 3 minute long fight for my life with an occasional death, and involves kiting, even though that same character is now 10 levels higher and close to 7.5k higher ilvl. An individual giant takes over a minute to kill (and assuming it doesn't kill me, a solid 30 seconds to recuperate from because I've yet to end a fight over 20% health as a CLERIC), vs. nearly 2-shotting them with the DL+DG combo, and I've died at least twice in every single attempt at the SOMI weekly as well as every time I've tried the Bearing Arms or other quests that take me to the troll village in Lonelywood.
Even the khyek seems to move about 20% slower too (on top of me losing about 15% runspeed even with 5% from the new boon system) so just GETTING TO the dailies takes significantly longer.
Play time is limited, even for the hardcore people that put multiple-hour-long sessions in. I went from being able to do the dailies for 3-4 campaigns in an evening to either only being able to do one, or not being able to complete the dailies for a single one, depending on which one I need to work on. Even the "easy" campaigns like AI and Sharandar now take a minimum of 10 minutes per quest.
edit - the quoting blocks for this got really weird i had to take them out
Play time is limited, even for the hardcore people that put multiple-hour-long sessions in. I went from being able to do the dailies for 3-4 campaigns in an evening to either only being able to do one, or not being able to complete the dailies for a single one, depending on which one I need to work on. Even the "easy" campaigns like AI and Sharandar now take a minimum of 10 minutes per quest.
This - more than anything this. I have no answer for this whatsoever - but it is one of my largest frustrations with the new mod.
oh also,as i haven't really been able to try this out. Someone was asking about what role the current version of daunting light plays in our toolbox.
in theory it does 2 things for us - it improves our divine generation. that's seems like a minor benefit from it. The real bonus from the spell is that it lowers our threat value, placing us lower on the threat list. It serves the same purpose as the tank placing himself at the top of the threat list - only this works for the cleric, making us a less tasty target.
I feel the at will that gives us a +10% heal boost serves the same purpose. Technically, these tools both serve a great purpose on paper, but as someone playing the game and running back and forth in the chaos of the boss fight, most people won't notice the subtlety of these effects.
They may work, but a lot of the time other players may have the gut reaction of "i was getting torn apart by the boss, where were you?"
when we are trying to create a group atmosphere with all of our powers working together, are these subtle powers really the ones we are working towards?
These powers feel to me like they are trying to make up for the lack of skill of other players in a way that most people will not notice.
> @kythelion#3210 said: > Comparing healing abilities of the three classes, the raw heals need to take into account that OP shields 50% of damage with his main encounter. > > DC lost somehow the ability to mitigate damage , wich was the most powerfull ability for ages. At least I can´t find much abilities to mitigate effectively in mod 16. Astral Shiled can´t fill in the gap at all. > > I really can´t find much arguments for the class atm. From all my classes DC looks like the last one I want to invest into actually, since I dislike the actual playstyle too much..both paragons. > > Mitigation and buffs were gutted, much to our displeasure more from us than from anyone else. But I think the overall response to your complaint is unfortunately : it's okay that you don't like it. This is the playstyle that's been chosen for healer, and you play it or don't. We've been begging to get just one or two buffs back, but that seems to be a nada. Devout cleric heals. Period.
That's one of my biggest concern in general. If player don't like something any more they tend to put it away, this counts for many classes and DC in specific. I see the big picture but I dislike the way it took to get there. Some classes got simplified too much,looking over the class feature and feats it makes me think all the time "I don't want this, next also, next.." and so on
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I'm seeing a 50-250% increase in time it takes to complete basically any solo content despite the huge jump in gear/stats.
That sounds a bit ... odd. I have done some tests with a stopwatch, running through some of the instanced solo content. (Granted, it was before the patch last Friday, so my results may not apply to the current version). I ran as a pretty much BiS character in both cases - 19K DO lvl 70 on live, 24K Arbiter lvl 80 on Preview. I found the average time increase to be just 50%, most of which was due to combat taking maybe twice as long.
The increase in time spent running from one fight to the next was insignificant in comparison (partially because I was not using Dark enchants for Movement on Live) If I had been, then I would have seen maybe 75% increase in time overall as a guess.
But 250%? That sounds really extreme - what power rotation were you using?
well, from my personal experience - i tend to run several characters through stronghold to gather influence from small heroics. It usually takes me, at most 2 minutes per fight with each of my alts and the rest of the time is spent running around.
without the movement speed from live i simply wont be able to do this with 6 characters a day - i wont have time. 2, maybe three at most.
Thats a harsh decrease in influence - the stronghold map is simply too large. always have been. I was complaining during stronghold siege testing that the map was too large to get from one stronghold to another, and the response i always got was - don't worry we are releasing faster mounts soon"
then came legendary mounts.
now we are going backwards with movement to an even slower pace - kill me now. *feints*
now if the devs wanted to do a qol patch where they reduce the sizes of every map in the game - surely that would be reasonable right?
right ?
echo.....
EDIT:
in all seriousness though, the problem i have with some of the changes happening with this mod is that they are so focused on one thing they lose sight on how they impact others things. Now i am not accusing anyone of being ignorant and not knowing any better. Clearly the dev's are aware of things when they say we will address these issues in a future mod.
But there are other ways of handling these issues - i'm sure they have tinkered with the ideas themselves in one way or another. BUT if one of the major issues of having a professions update is that they didn't have the manpower to create new graphics for lv 70 to 80 gear, then why not reuse previous graphics.
It would actually be pretty fun to use the lv15 bronze helmet for a lv 80 piece of gear. By re-using the graphics among multiple pieces of equipment you save yourself a lot of work.
My point is that it is very disheartning to have the workshop be such an important part of the game that it does not see any regular updates as the game moves forward.
I'm seeing a 50-250% increase in time it takes to complete basically any solo content despite the huge jump in gear/stats.
That sounds a bit ... odd. I have done some tests with a stopwatch, running through some of the instanced solo content. (Granted, it was before the patch last Friday, so my results may not apply to the current version). I ran as a pretty much BiS character in both cases - 19K DO lvl 70 on live, 24K Arbiter lvl 80 on Preview. I found the average time increase to be just 50%, most of which was due to combat taking maybe twice as long.
The increase in time spent running from one fight to the next was insignificant in comparison (partially because I was not using Dark enchants for Movement on Live) If I had been, then I would have seen maybe 75% increase in time overall as a guess.
But 250%? That sounds really extreme - what power rotation were you using?
For starters, I'm nowhere near BIS on either live or preview (13k and 20.5k, respectively). And yes, I was running Darks because I simply could not keep up with groups in RAQ otherwise. I've got +17% movement speed on live.
For solo content I'm running FF, DL, and Searing Javelin for encounters with Pilgrim's Plight and Critical Insight for features. At wills I'm using Lance of Faith and Conflagrate. I have no idea if this is "ideal" or not, simply what I settled on as the best AoE setup I could figure out for questing. And things take forever to kill in solo content because it's still pretty bat at AoE and requires actively positioning mobs.
Comments
For devout, the rhythm of the heavens and battle prayer, I played with them some, but either they're not proccing at all, or there's no icon and I couldn't see a visual indicator of proccing. So, how am I supposed to know when to do my pray thing with these?
Edit: sorry I can't make this blue. My tablet is a controlling azzhat and won't let me tonight.
However Perfect Balance feat looks more of a pvp feat and can be a pain to use, since it has no margin of error as well as getting 6 stacks of each radiance is tricky to monitor.
I suggest reduce stacks from 6 to 3 or 4 so that it could be more viable, otherwise its gonna be a big no to almost everyone.
Tipping Scales totally has to be replaced by the Sunburst so we can have a choice between different play styles.
I had some time over the weekend, both in L80 content like expeditions and scaled-down content like doing dailies in Barovia and it just works. Sure, there were issues (and quite frankly, I absolutely do not consider what is on Preview ready for release), but those issues were not Cleric-specific (so, not relevant to this thread).
I guess what I am saying, is that from my perspective, I think any further changes to clerics can wait a month or two ... just focus your effort on the other classes you are responsible for - they need it more.
I do have some observations, though.
wait you watched Power Rangers?Making enemy basic attacks hit harder is ... one way to ensure that players are still "doing" something.However, I don't think it will solve the issue of players disliking that their only contribution to the team's fight is effectively babysitting (ie, carrying the people that love to stand in red zones and watching the tank's HP go up and down) rather than actively contributing to the fight's pace.
DC lost somehow the ability to mitigate damage , wich was the most powerfull ability for ages. At least I can´t find much abilities to mitigate effectively in mod 16. Astral Shiled can´t fill in the gap at all.
I really can´t find much arguments for the class atm. From all my classes DC looks like the last one I want to invest into actually, since I dislike the actual playstyle too much..both paragons.
Powers
I still haven't found a rotation on where to place Divine glow, Chains and Prophecy. Right now, those powers represent a burden and have not real utility, specially DG and PoD's cooldowns.
Break the spirit and geas are yet a problem. I wonder what, us clerics, did in the past to be penalized with such long cooldowns, most of cleric dps powers are non-viable.
Features
Soothing Prayer, Hallowed armor, Doomsayer are good features.
Pilgrim's light is only useful for solo dailies.
Expanded faith is really bad, previous holy fervor helped us better, divinity generation is lame now.
Critical insight is bad as well, maybe 50 divinity would compensate our slow generation.
light of scales' 10% is still low per pip, 20% would help.
Divine equilibrium can be better. Right now is non viabe. My suggestion is: Whenever your divinity isn't full, you deal 10% more damage.
Feats
Piercing Javelin
Why are we forced to one encounter instead of all damaging ones?
Rework => Your single target at wills have 10% chance to cause your next encounter power strike with 100% critical rate.
lightspeed
Same as previous one, we don't like to be forced to using certain powers as you are limiting us to one single build.
Rework => Your at wills powers have a 5% chance to grant combat advantage over the target for 5 seconds.
Focuse light
Again, this limited combo here would leave us with few divinity to build our next strategy and forcing us to build pips, which ends on a very boring process on long fights.
Rework => Your radiant powers grant a stack of "XxxX", at 10 stacks you trigger "XxxX", which adds an additional 200 magnitude to your next encounter or daily radiant power.
Tipping scales
This feat along divine glow, i found them useless to even using them on fights when an arbiter requires to maximixe their power and divine glow is a waste of an encounter due to its long cooldown.
Rework => Same as the previous suggestion, but for fire based powers.
Sudden verdict
I liked this new feat, i would suggest it to be 30%, considering cooldown base powers are long and divinity based ones consumed it very fast, it will trigger barely 1 time in a rotation.
Inner balance
What!? How come are we depending on fluctuating ratings, this makes it impossible to happen.
Rework => After using a daily power, for the next 10 secs, your at will powers fill your judgement gauge at max.
Angel of death
The feat is good, but i think too many stacks won't make it viable for critter/ elite monsters as they die fast, just long battles like orcus or atropal, and even in these fights, due to how bad divinity generation is, it will ony happen 1 or 2 times.
Rework => 10 stacks and 6s duration.
Perfect balance
This feat never works, I don't understand it, how am i supposed to fill 6 pips of both randiant and burning at same time? After 2-3 pips of any, it expires.
Edit: After some testing
Sudden verdict was working very well.
Focused light has to go along with conflagration to rotate decently, slow but kinda works.
Perfect balance is complicated, we have to pay attention on what power to use to not mess it up, any rotation makes this dull and hard, while others classes have it easily for a last feat.
Angel of death is bugged, not triggering after channeling divinity
Searing Javelin removes the stacks of radiant and burning shifts without being exceeded
So what gives? I feel lied to.
On Live my best character can do all 6 SKT dailies in around 45 minutes, 55-60 if I get the fishing daily in SOMI. If I skip SOMI I can do the other 3 in about 15. On Preview my best character takes nearly 2 hours and my DC takes closer to 3. Mainly because of the more than double TTK. The packs of trolls that had the rune troll in it I used to be able to 1-shot the whole pack with a Daunting Light crit at ilvl 13k, and if it didn't crit the follow-up DG finished them. Now it's a 3 minute long fight for my life with an occasional death, and involves kiting, even though that same character is now 10 levels higher and close to 7.5k higher ilvl. An individual giant takes over a minute to kill (and assuming it doesn't kill me, a solid 30 seconds to recuperate from because I've yet to end a fight over 20% health as a CLERIC), vs. nearly 2-shotting them with the DL+DG combo, and I've died at least twice in every single attempt at the SOMI weekly as well as every time I've tried the Bearing Arms or other quests that take me to the troll village in Lonelywood.
Even the khyek seems to move about 20% slower too (on top of me losing about 15% runspeed even with 5% from the new boon system) so just GETTING TO the dailies takes significantly longer.
Play time is limited, even for the hardcore people that put multiple-hour-long sessions in. I went from being able to do the dailies for 3-4 campaigns in an evening to either only being able to do one, or not being able to complete the dailies for a single one, depending on which one I need to work on. Even the "easy" campaigns like AI and Sharandar now take a minimum of 10 minutes per quest.
edit - the quoting blocks for this got really weird i had to take them out
Play time is limited, even for the hardcore people that put multiple-hour-long sessions in. I went from being able to do the dailies for 3-4 campaigns in an evening to either only being able to do one, or not being able to complete the dailies for a single one, depending on which one I need to work on. Even the "easy" campaigns like AI and Sharandar now take a minimum of 10 minutes per quest.
This - more than anything this. I have no answer for this whatsoever - but it is one of my largest frustrations with the new mod.
in theory it does 2 things for us - it improves our divine generation. that's seems like a minor benefit from it. The real bonus from the spell is that it lowers our threat value, placing us lower on the threat list. It serves the same purpose as the tank placing himself at the top of the threat list - only this works for the cleric, making us a less tasty target.
I feel the at will that gives us a +10% heal boost serves the same purpose. Technically, these tools both serve a great purpose on paper, but as someone playing the game and running back and forth in the chaos of the boss fight, most people won't notice the subtlety of these effects.
They may work, but a lot of the time other players may have the gut reaction of "i was getting torn apart by the boss, where were you?"
when we are trying to create a group atmosphere with all of our powers working together, are these subtle powers really the ones we are working towards?
These powers feel to me like they are trying to make up for the lack of skill of other players in a way that most people will not notice.
> Comparing healing abilities of the three classes, the raw heals need to take into account that OP shields 50% of damage with his main encounter.
>
> DC lost somehow the ability to mitigate damage , wich was the most powerfull ability for ages. At least I can´t find much abilities to mitigate effectively in mod 16. Astral Shiled can´t fill in the gap at all.
>
> I really can´t find much arguments for the class atm. From all my classes DC looks like the last one I want to invest into actually, since I dislike the actual playstyle too much..both paragons.
>
> Mitigation and buffs were gutted, much to our displeasure more from us than from anyone else. But I think the overall response to your complaint is unfortunately : it's okay that you don't like it. This is the playstyle that's been chosen for healer, and you play it or don't. We've been begging to get just one or two buffs back, but that seems to be a nada. Devout cleric heals. Period.
That's one of my biggest concern in general. If player don't like something any more they tend to put it away, this counts for many classes and DC in specific. I see the big picture but I dislike the way it took to get there. Some classes got simplified too much,looking over the class feature and feats it makes me think all the time "I don't want this, next also, next.." and so on
The increase in time spent running from one fight to the next was insignificant in comparison (partially because I was not using Dark enchants for Movement on Live) If I had been, then I would have seen maybe 75% increase in time overall as a guess.
But 250%? That sounds really extreme - what power rotation were you using?
without the movement speed from live i simply wont be able to do this with 6 characters a day - i wont have time. 2, maybe three at most.
Thats a harsh decrease in influence - the stronghold map is simply too large. always have been. I was complaining during stronghold siege testing that the map was too large to get from one stronghold to another, and the response i always got was - don't worry we are releasing faster mounts soon"
then came legendary mounts.
now we are going backwards with movement to an even slower pace - kill me now. *feints*
right ?
echo.....
EDIT:
in all seriousness though, the problem i have with some of the changes happening with this mod is that they are so focused on one thing they lose sight on how they impact others things. Now i am not accusing anyone of being ignorant and not knowing any better. Clearly the dev's are aware of things when they say we will address these issues in a future mod.
But there are other ways of handling these issues - i'm sure they have tinkered with the ideas themselves in one way or another. BUT if one of the major issues of having a professions update is that they didn't have the manpower to create new graphics for lv 70 to 80 gear, then why not reuse previous graphics.
It would actually be pretty fun to use the lv15 bronze helmet for a lv 80 piece of gear. By re-using the graphics among multiple pieces of equipment you save yourself a lot of work.
My point is that it is very disheartning to have the workshop be such an important part of the game that it does not see any regular updates as the game moves forward.
just my 2 cents.
For solo content I'm running FF, DL, and Searing Javelin for encounters with Pilgrim's Plight and Critical Insight for features. At wills I'm using Lance of Faith and Conflagrate. I have no idea if this is "ideal" or not, simply what I settled on as the best AoE setup I could figure out for questing. And things take forever to kill in solo content because it's still pretty bat at AoE and requires actively positioning mobs.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.