DEVS please help on: LIFE STEAL

mudbone65 · March 2019

Could you please tell me what the changes are to life steal with this new MOD.. There is not much that the Rogue is even WANTED for right now in this game.. they have been made obsolete.. My main is a Rogue, and since it is difficult for me to get in any end game content, the only playing that I can do is solo.. That being the case, I can keep myself alive with LIFE STEAL.. If the changes are going to further NERF the Rogue.. and specifically life steal.. I see no point in continuing the game..unfortunately. I have been here since BETA, and the Rogue has gotten progressively worse.

nunya · March 2019

There will be no life steal in the new mod. Nor will there be recovery or armor class (AC). New stats are being introduced and the mathematics and mechanics of the system are being entirely changed.

EDIT: There will be a very little bit of life steal from a few sources. I doubt those sources will be as effective as they are now. You'll be mainly relying on potions and healers for healing in the next update.

plasticbat · March 2019

Was there life steal in beta?

pitshade · March 2019

Yes but it worked a bit differently

plasticbat · March 2019

pitshade said:
Yes but it worked a bit differently

Yes, now I remember. That big change of life steal.

mudbone65 · March 2019

nunya#5309 said:
There will be no life steal in the new mod. Nor will there be recovery or armor class (AC). New stats are being introduced and the mathematics and mechanics of the system are being entirely changed.

EDIT: There will be a very little bit of life steal from a few sources. I doubt those sources will be as effective as they are now. You'll be mainly relying on potions and healers for healing in the next update.

Wonderful.. Well, I guess I now know the direction that the Rogue is going.. further into obscurity. As I said, they have no place in the game, and each time an update arrives, they are pushed further out of it. If there were reasons.. Locked doors, or traps needing disarmed, it would be a required class to have for endgame stuff.. but the direction of the game is pushing classes and players out of it. I see not reason to continue other than I have VIP paid for for several months.

nunya · March 2019

mudbone65 said:

nunya#5309 said:
There will be no life steal in the new mod. Nor will there be recovery or armor class (AC). New stats are being introduced and the mathematics and mechanics of the system are being entirely changed.

EDIT: There will be a very little bit of life steal from a few sources. I doubt those sources will be as effective as they are now. You'll be mainly relying on potions and healers for healing in the next update.
Wonderful.. Well, I guess I now know the direction that the Rogue is going.. further into obscurity. As I said, they have no place in the game, and each time an update arrives, they are pushed further out of it. If there were reasons.. Locked doors, or traps needing disarmed, it would be a required class to have for endgame stuff.. but the direction of the game is pushing classes and players out of it. I see not reason to continue other than I have VIP paid for for several months.

Well, ranger, wizards, fighters, and even warlocks (who are not running as a healer build) are also going to need healers and potions. I'm not sure about barbarians (formerly Great Weapon Fighters), but I would think they're going to need them, too.

plasticbat · March 2019

nunya#5309 said:

mudbone65 said:

nunya#5309 said:
There will be no life steal in the new mod. Nor will there be recovery or armor class (AC). New stats are being introduced and the mathematics and mechanics of the system are being entirely changed.

EDIT: There will be a very little bit of life steal from a few sources. I doubt those sources will be as effective as they are now. You'll be mainly relying on potions and healers for healing in the next update.
Wonderful.. Well, I guess I now know the direction that the Rogue is going.. further into obscurity. As I said, they have no place in the game, and each time an update arrives, they are pushed further out of it. If there were reasons.. Locked doors, or traps needing disarmed, it would be a required class to have for endgame stuff.. but the direction of the game is pushing classes and players out of it. I see not reason to continue other than I have VIP paid for for several months.
Well, ranger, wizards, fighters, and even warlocks (who are not running as a healer build) are also going to need healers and potions. I'm not sure about barbarians (formerly Great Weapon Fighters), but I would think they're going to need them, too.

Everyone will need potion and that includes DC. Using green dragon in DF as an example, a DC may not survive (without life steal and potion) unless he just keeps on healing and not doing non-healing related attack.

greywynd · March 2019

mudbone65 said:

Wonderful.. Well, I guess I now know the direction that the Rogue is going.. further into obscurity. As I said, they have no place in the game, and each time an update arrives, they are pushed further out of it. If there were reasons.. Locked doors, or traps needing disarmed, it would be a required class to have for endgame stuff.. but the direction of the game is pushing classes and players out of it. I see not reason to continue other than I have VIP paid for for several months.

Rogue is a damage dealer. Not a tank, nor a healer. Self-healing is being diminished. Pots, stones, and a cleric in your pocket will do wonders.

mentinmindmaker · March 2019

It is not like they are removing lifesteal and keeping everything else unchanged.

*Everything* is changing. So don't make any assumptions about how it will be at all. You will likely be wrong.

Part of their new design is of course to make sure you have enough healing also in solo situations, although for solo it seems to be more like 'Kill the baddie before he kills you' - and then you get a huge heal out of combat to recover and get ready for next fight.

Just log on to Test and play with it. Then you can make an informed decision to stay or go.

silverkelt · March 2019

There are issues with mod 16.. most of them are not due to removal of lifesteal..

that being said.. I do not find the game enjoyable with the changes they implanted, it takes way too much effort just to clear junk garbage..

They actually have done the opposite of what many of us wanted.. that is make it that more people come together and play together without such vast amounts of issues and streamline the value of the stat progression, they have made it unbelievable worse.. if you feel your week now? Just wait, it gets a WHOLE bunch harder for most players, its harder on just players who will be full r15 in 20 mins of going live.. it will be a disaster for those players running r9s and r8s at the moment..

Your current companion will most likely be useless. your current companion gear will most likely be useless.. you will need to find and upgrade a bunch of insignias. Say you just dropped 1.5 million or 2.5k zen on a pet tiger, or jimbobby (whatever is really name is.. ) they too are pretty much useless now as well, (all those old lovely archons? useless)

Say you play a DC or a paladin.. they feel like completely new classes.. and frankly I hate how it plays.. you spend more frocking time praying , then playing.. I get the feeling most of those two classes will have the most losses. Really seriously.. boring .

Frankly this whole mod feels like.. if you dont have everything .. dont bother. Im serious here, you really need to have almost all of your stats in place to just play.

I fail to see how this really works for the vast majority of players.. and while, I can fully understand making a progression of dungeons work this way.., I believe they went overboard on the overall pve side of things, doing crappy quests for 30-50% longer in most cases.. is just not fun. having to move a whole bunch of stu

for the vast majority of players Ive discussed this with.. they have some serious beefs with mod 16 rework of the game.. while some of it works out ok (the need for full teams) how they implemented alot of other stuff isnt good at all (the stat rework in general is a big portion of the problem) but not at all of it.

Im in serious doubts if I will continue as well, but its for other factors (my tr was always just a baby.. who only used during influence and weekly farming) I do not like probably 80 % of the new direction.

(removal of feats, removal of current comp gear, forcing comp gear only, the wholesale changes to the companion progression, nerfing of current power (400 to 1, to 500 to 1.. to SALE us back some of the same power ((REALLY i dont understand how players can accept this over and over.. its by far the worst of this)) making these anti stats so we need more stats to cover more anti stats (crock))

I can live with the no lifesteal, as long as OVERALL progression of campaigns is near the same and right now its not..

Overall.. you will spend most time not doing anything on a DC or Paladin or scratching a enemy with a at will waiting for encounter to come up. (yes lots of not doing much in the new mod)

The overall feel to me goes from action combat game to, to something completely unfamiliar.

Will there be losses to the playerbase.. that is a 100% surety..

They shouldve just made a new updated neverwinter 2.. left this in maintaince mode.. and got new players for a new game since they seem to have made it the end of this one ..

tassedethe13 · March 2019

@mudbone65 Did you read another devblog than the one about the rogue ? It makes me wonder how many people are actually aware about the changes of the game because the removal of lifesteal is an old news.

mudbone65 · March 2019

tassedethe13 said:
@mudbone65 Did you read another devblog than the one about the rogue ? It makes me wonder how many people are actually aware about the changes of the game because the removal of lifesteal is an old news.

TBH, I did not read the blog about the "old news." I have seen the progression to life steal being nerfed for a couple of updates. I then played mod16 on Mimic, and saw how bad it has truly become. Again, I guess my main point isn't JUST the life steal.. but when the Rogue is nerfed to the point of uselessness, why even have them as a class choice? No one is 'looking' for a Rogue on end game stuff, they see a Rogue, they drop group.... they just don't bring enough of "whatever" to the table. As for the Lifesteal in general.. for someone not able to get in end game areas.. the life steal was for the solo pve that kept me interested in the game at all. Now, when that is being done away with.. and not having to ability to play end game stuff.. the question really is..why continue to pay for something that destroys my ability TO play? I won't, is the answer. Sadly.

mentinmindmaker · March 2019

There is a recurring theme when I read peoples reactions to mod 16: Changes = bad.

Changes might not be bad. Game will be different, play different, require more work certainly. The net effect of this process probably *will* be that we the players are pushed a few steps down on the power ladder, since Cryptic needs room to grow in future mods.

But why do you play? Is it the process of gearing up and mastering new challenges that is fun? Or is it staying BiS and repeatedly running the same easy content over and over again?

The current system has been butting its head into a number of ceilings the last few mods, it was getting increasingly hard for the devs to create a meaningful growth path with each mod. Now everyone suddenly are a good bit from BiS again, and the devs will be able to provide meaningful content for the upcoming mods.

Some will of course hate the changes and leave.

I say give it a chance.. let mod 16 come to Live, play it a few weeks and see.

adinosii · March 2019

mudbone65 said:
As for the Lifesteal in general.. for someone not able to get in end game areas.. the life steal was for the solo pve that kept me interested in the game at all. Now, when that is being done away with.. and not having to ability to play end game stuff..

Uhm...have you even bothered to test Mod 16? It doesn't sound like it, because quite frankly the removal of life steal has minimal impact on solo play.

Just to give you an example, while leveling up from 70 to 80 (as a Cleric), I had to use a healing stone exactly twice before I reached the final area. I didn't need lifesteal because by playing properly, the enemies simply die before I do.

I do need to be careful, though. I cannot aggro multiple groups of trash mobs, have them come to me and nuke them out of existence all at once. I also have to dodge a bit more than I had to do previously, and pay more attention to positioning.

In other words, yea, the game is a bit more challenging, but that's actually fine - it was so easy before that it was boring.

The excessive lifesteal made things a bit too silly - I was either at full health or dead....it's just not realistic.

So, yea...there are things in Mod 16 to be upset about, but removal of lifesteal is not one of them.

pitshade · March 2019

My big concern is soloing in Chult and Barovia, Batiri in particular in the latter and wolves/werewolves in the latter. On live, aggroing some of the mob packs leads to a massive burst of damage from the mobs, frequently getting surrounded in the process.

With lifesteal, it is possible to heal this back. I haven't tested but hopefully the mobs wont have that level of burst damage in m16.

plasticbat · March 2019

pitshade said:
My big concern is soloing in Chult and Barovia, Batiri in particular in the latter and wolves/werewolves in the latter. On live, aggroing some of the mob packs leads to a massive burst of damage from the mobs, frequently getting surrounded in the process.

With lifesteal, it is possible to heal this back. I haven't tested but hopefully the mobs wont have that level of burst damage in m16.

That means DPS can't be a glass canon anymore. I see negation will be popular for all class.

johonxgalt · March 2019

mudbone65 said:

tassedethe13 said:
@mudbone65 Again, I guess my main point isn't JUST the life steal.. but when the Rogue is nerfed to the point of uselessness, why even have them as a class choice? No one is 'looking' for a Rogue on end game stuff, they see a Rogue, they drop group.... they just don't bring enough of "whatever" to the table.

In this part you are comparing the current behavior to the new class but not accounting for the fact that all the other "preferred" classes got hit as well. Rogue have always been DD with very few group buffs, you may actually end up moving ahead with other classes losing many of the group buffs that make them popular.

kiraskytower · March 2019

plasticbat said:

pitshade said:
My big concern is soloing in Chult and Barovia, Batiri in particular in the latter and wolves/werewolves in the latter. On live, aggroing some of the mob packs leads to a massive burst of damage from the mobs, frequently getting surrounded in the process.

With lifesteal, it is possible to heal this back. I haven't tested but hopefully the mobs wont have that level of burst damage in m16.
That means DPS can't be a glass canon anymore. I see negation will be popular for all class.

More likely Barkshield will become the preferred armor enchant. Negation is so badly nerfed on preview that it's useless (+0.1% DR per stack at rank 12?? Really devs??).

On preview I was able to solo my way through undermountain with my control wizard without any potions or deaths simply by being careful and avoiding doing foolish things like agroing half the map. Sure, you will take some damage in combat, but you regenerate it nearly instantly out of combat, so as long as you have a moment out of combat between mobs you are probably fine. Now, trying to solo a dungeon .... is a different story.

DEVS please help on: LIFE STEAL

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