Class Balance: Here is a snapshot of class balance for patch NW.110.2019031b.2. Thanks to @greyjay1, @viraaal, @rjc9000 and @nigantar for helping me to test this.
That is well documented testing that we will certainly look over this week.
It was interesting to see the Warden ranger used for the ranged only build. The Hunter path has a better setup for that route. I would have be curious to see how a stance swapping Warden compared to the pure melee stance build in your tests.
There is a lot more build that a player could build even with the seemly limited feat u guys provide. But the question is, is it fully explored and tested by u guys? Just a reference, we used to have 2 type of archer, combat & trapper where the "type" are differentiated by paragon path. Its most likely players will use the new mod 16 setup to explore those build 1st to compare it with their mod 15 performance. That's why u will find lots of complain and worry from those player where their build are no longer viable in the new mod.
In my opinion, I consider those 6 build the basic build of HR while the other are just hybrid. If those 6 aren't balanced in term of performance, u'll find a lot more complain and unsatisfactory from the HR community in the coming days especially if it goes live. I believe the same goes with the other classes. Except if u guys could communicate better with the community on the new basic build u guys are trying to promote here, their mind will still stick with the past. I'll wait for your HR developer blog.
Post edited by kangkeok on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@schietindebux@arazith07 If you check the post I submitted above TheFabricant, you will see why I didnt use the other path. It would help if you guys read.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
@Viraaal Maybe you haven't played with a pure archer build at all, but stance switching isn't something I do very often. I would test myself, but I don't have access to some of the items listed for the controls listed by TheFabricant. Below is my build (I plan on replacing Forest Ghost with Disruptive shot+feat when I hit level 80). Already I am doing more damage than my 22k iL Arbiter, which is built similarly to what was used for the test. https://i.imgur.com/KlvsGV7.png
@Viraaal Maybe you haven't played with a pure archer build at all, but stance switching isn't something I do very often. I would test myself, but I don't have access to some of the items listed for the controls listed by TheFabricant. Below is my build (I plan on replacing Forest Ghost with Disruptive shot+feat when I hit level 80). Already I am doing more damage than my 22k iL Arbiter, which is built similarly to what was used for the test. https://i.imgur.com/KlvsGV7.png
Why wouldn't you switch stance? You lose nothing, and only gain dps from melee skills. Yes i've played a full archery hunter spec, and you always do more damage when using melee skills, its unquestionable better. Im not sure how you can think a pure archery would out dps it. You are more then allowed to do the test, I know @thefabricant and @greyjay1 will give you the items to do this controlled test, if you think otherwise.
And for clarity, im not disputing how hunter does compared to warden, im comparing ranged only vs stance switching hunter builds.
1) Boons: Recruit's Training and Soldier's Training are not working properly. The power is working but they are not giving the player 1K HP per rank, they are giving them 1K HP period.
2) Equipment Comparison tooltip:
A ) My character has the Adamantium Chainmail equipped in their shirt slot. When I mouse over the Undermountain Shirt the tooltip says that the Shirt will give me +12,880 Armor Penetration if equipped. The shirt only has an Armor Penetration rating of 460.
B ) My character has the Adamantium Chausses equipped. When I mouse over the Undermountain Pants it gives me two different changes in HP if equipped.
One says that I will get -1,075 Max HP, which is correct just comparing the basic Undermountain Pants to the Adamantium Chausses, but the pants come with a Radiant Enchantment slotted which adds +1,840 Max HP to the pants.
That means that if I equip the pants I actually get +765 Max HP.
But in addition to the tooltip telling me that I will lose out on 1,075 Max HP if I equip the pants, it also says that I will gain +38,080 Max HP, and there is nothing in the numbers to support that.
I'd like to see the tooltip take slotted enchantments into consideration, even if they are added as extra changes.
For example, if I have a shirt equipped and compare it to another shirt that will give me +20 combined rating and that has an enchantment slotted that will give me +20 power, the comparison tooltip might say "Changes if equipped: +20 combined rating. Enchantment changes if equipped: +20 power".
If the shirt that I had equipped had an enchantment slotted that gave me +20 Awareness then the tooltip would say "Changes if equipped: +20 combined rating. Enchantment changes if equipped +20 power, -20 awareness".
Something like that.
Thanks.
I think the time has come to develop a new pop-up format that is standard for all equipments, that shows each stat in its own box with its total adjusted value. In the future, this will make it easier to assign completely unique stat arrays to equips.
I do recognize that most are testing with a char they brought over from live. My comment is; how many are play testing from a starter char? (which by the way is a WORLD of difference from 'end game' chars.
I do recognize that most are testing with a char they brought over from live. My comment is; how many are play testing from a starter char? (which by the way is a WORLD of difference from 'end game' chars.
I leveled a brand new character up on preview as I normally play on console. It was soloable and I had no issues getting to level 80. It took about 10-12 hours roughly.
I do recognize that most are testing with a char they brought over from live. My comment is; how many are play testing from a starter char? (which by the way is a WORLD of difference from 'end game' chars.
I leveled a brand new character up on preview as I normally play on console. It was soloable and I had no issues getting to level 80. It took about 10-12 hours roughly.
What was the hardest or most time consuming area to pass through?
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
CN: Beholder and Orcus can be pushed out of position (can't figure out which power is doing it) Companions are 1-2 shotting Orcus. eTOS: Giant spawning spider after 2nd door has been Juicing; 5 times normal size. FBI: Final boss getting stunned/freezing in place for easy kill (not sure which power does it).
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
@Viraaal Maybe you haven't played with a pure archer build at all, but stance switching isn't something I do very often. I would test myself, but I don't have access to some of the items listed for the controls listed by TheFabricant. Below is my build (I plan on replacing Forest Ghost with Disruptive shot+feat when I hit level 80). Already I am doing more damage than my 22k iL Arbiter, which is built similarly to what was used for the test. https://i.imgur.com/KlvsGV7.png
Why wouldn't you switch stance? You lose nothing, and only gain dps from melee skills. Yes i've played a full archery hunter spec, and you always do more damage when using melee skills, its unquestionable better. Im not sure how you can think a pure archery would out dps it. You are more then allowed to do the test, I know @thefabricant and @greyjay1 will give you the items to do this controlled test, if you think otherwise.
And for clarity, im not disputing how hunter does compared to warden, im comparing ranged only vs stance switching hunter builds.
I would prefer the developer to encourage archer to play at range just for the distinction between archer and combat playstyle. Its pretty much the same playstyle as combat if archer were to fight in melee range. Just spam all 6 encounter and at will in between. It just make HR more mundane. We used to have a trapper weaving in and out between range and melee, combat annihilating anything the comes near to him, and archer that rain down deadly arrow from distance. Its just sad that the game doesn't encourage such gameplay anymore.
Class Balance: Here is a snapshot of class balance for patch NW.110.2019031b.2. Thanks to @greyjay1, @viraaal, @rjc9000 and @nigantar for helping me to test this.
That is well documented testing that we will certainly look over this week.
It was interesting to see the Warden ranger used for the ranged only build. The Hunter path has a better setup for that route. I would have be curious to see how a stance swapping Warden compared to the pure melee stance build in your tests.
There is one little thing that must be taken into account; this gives raw numbers for single target DPS, it doesn't take into account neither AoE DPS nor survivability.
As a result your class could be shown as a cool single target DPS but later you are unable to do your daily, weekly and campaign missions.
I do recognize that most are testing with a char they brought over from live. My comment is; how many are play testing from a starter char? (which by the way is a WORLD of difference from 'end game' chars.
I rolled a new toon and spent some time playing through some of the early stuff with them.
Might try with another class to see how they play.
CN: Beholder and Orcus can be pushed out of position (can't figure out which power is doing it) Companions are 1-2 shotting Orcus. eTOS: Giant spawning spider after 2nd door has been Juicing; 5 times normal size. FBI: Final boss getting stunned/freezing in place for easy kill (not sure which power does it).
I recall the Manticore companion knocking un-knockable foes off their spots in the dim and distant past. I don't suppose there was a Manticore knocking about (pun intended) when you were in CN?
Class Balance: Here is a snapshot of class balance for patch NW.110.2019031b.2. Thanks to @greyjay1, @viraaal, @rjc9000 and @nigantar for helping me to test this.
Conditions for the test:
Naked characters except for the gear required to reach 50% critical strike chance. No insignia bonuses or insignias, armor penetration SH boon, no pets except for those specified.
No summoned companion.
100-100 weapons from the trade of blades, purchaseable for 2.5 gold.
Tiefling Race, with constitution and charisma.
Lone level 9 dummy in the trade of blades, nearest to the pvp vendors.
Single target rotation for 5 minutes.
The base ability scores with no extra allocated beyond what you get for character creation.
Legendary Black Dragon Ioun stone active bonus (8k crit).
Imperial Rage drake mount bonus (4k crit).
2x Beaded Assault Rings (5645 Arp and 3743 Crit).
Alchemist Companion's Active bonus (4k crit and 2k ca).
Rank 14 vorpal.
Level 80 character.
Rankings:
Including GF using buggy ITF: Excluding GF using buggy ITF:
Notes:
We did not benchmark the tank path of Barbarian, only the damage path, as the tank path is doing 3.14 times more damage than intended.
The 3% multiplier on paladin is to account for poor daily power usage.
The 4 daily power limit on 1 of the GF builds is to accurately simulate GF damage with ITF, excluding the AP gain bug.
Damage is normalized around the highest dps on the list. Every class below the highest is listed as a percentage of the highest.
Fighter DPS where waiting for vengeance has to be calculated manually as waiting for vengeance takes you out of combat and skews the results. This is why the act log differs from my number in the cell.
Pie Chart and powers menu of Every Class:
Fighter Bugged ITF:
Barbarian:
Wizard:
Warlock:
Combat Ranger:
Rogue:
Paladin:
Fighter no ITF Waiting for Vengeance:
Fighter no ITF Not Waiting for Vengeance:
Arbiter Cleric:
Fighter ITF 4 Daily Limit:
Storm Conduit Ranger:
A very strange test ... for some classes there are satellites and bonuses which, in combination with their combat skills, will give out more damage. There are also satellites that provide a combat advantage against the target even for RDD. A combination of debuffs of some classes will only multiply with a certain type of attack (for example, a debut for a rogue gives an increase of 10% on the goal of physical damage). Will depend on the race classes, where there is an increase to the set of AP that will give more and more use the daily skills which again will change the performance of your data. Now personally, I only see that you do not want to use the opportunities given to you by the developers and reduce everything to the fact that someone has something more.
What was the hardest or most time consuming area to complete?<blockquote
The hardest part was running the leveling dungeons for each of the level appropriate zones. Mostly waiting for queues as I wasn't able to solo them until I was about 10 levels beyond the zone level. Other than that, the content itself was quite manageable. I just continued to buy the blue gear in the zones as it became available.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
A very strange test ... for some classes there are satellites and bonuses which, in combination with their combat skills, will give out more damage. There are also satellites that provide a combat advantage against the target even for RDD. A combination of debuffs of some classes will only multiply with a certain type of attack (for example, a debut for a rogue gives an increase of 10% on the goal of physical damage). Will depend on the race classes, where there is an increase to the set of AP that will give more and more use the daily skills which again will change the performance of your data. Now personally, I only see that you do not want to use the opportunities given to you by the developers and reduce everything to the fact that someone has something more.
It is not a strange test. In order to make meaningful comparisons, you need to make some form of controlled test. A test has no value if it isn't possible (within reason) to replicate the results. Whilst this may not account for some variables, it has enough substance to be able to attribute some meaning to it.
Also, send my regards to the other Russians lurking and talking about these threads on the RU forums, I see them :P They should post their feedback here, since unlike me I don't think the devs are stalking the RU class forums.
Are there powers or feats used that provide CA? I did not recognize it tbh.
I think it's a lot of work, many thx, even though I think that some variables miss and are hard to measure anyway, since bosses are no static target to hit for 5 min, same as they tend to lift up, vanish or dive or run in circles. In case of warlock you drop all buffs that moment in short and it takes up to a minute to stack them again. Another variable that can influence a shard like that is when testing a class you only sometimes or never play with, knowing myself how bad the personal performance sometimes looks like, thinking "Why... I did everything correct?"
Are there powers or feats used that provide CA? I did not recognize it tbh.
I think it's a lot of work, many thx, even though I think that some variables miss and are hard to measure anyway, since bosses are no static target to hit for 5 min, same as they tend to lift up, vanish or dive or run in circles.
In case of warlock you drop all buffs that moment in short and it takes up to a minute to stack them again.
Another variable that can influence a shard like that is when testing a class you only sometimes or never play with, knowing myself how bad the personal performance sometimes looks like, thinking "Why... I did everything correct?"
Nightmare Wizardry still provides CA.
For the test, we literally just had someone go afk near the dummy while hoping the test DPSer stayed in CA by positioning
I went back and created a new test character on preview. What i saw was rather disheartening. As it is now, i can not recommend the game to new players anymore. Everything that made Leveling compelling is gone. The variety of powers that i knew i could work toward and choose from are replaced by zero choices without even the promise of being able to choose in the future. On top of that, the balance is way off. I killed the Harbinger with a single daily. Part of selling these changes i have been give by devs is to reduce players oneshotting bosses with optimized builds. Now i play and i have no building to my character and boom, i one shot a boss. This is not compelling, this is not interesting, and this is not D&D. The early game is without both choice or challenge. This Desperately needs to be fixed.
if i was picking this game up for the first time it would be rather easy to walk away because i don't feel like i am investing in a character i am just jumping through hoops.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Just my opinion but character creation is nil, feels like I am back in the day of playing "Gauntlet" and just choosing a character:wizard, elf, barbarian. Sad.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @darkheart#6758 said: > Just my opinion but character creation is nil, feels like I am back in the day of playing "Gauntlet" and just choosing a character:wizard, elf, barbarian. Sad.
Please let us have our portraits back as an option. I seriously find the stripped down HUD to be ugly and want to see my characters, their pets and party members. I find no merit whatsoever in this change.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
@thefabricant May I ask who tested the rouge? And it is possible to test the wk, too? I´d like to see an SoD. Thx in advance.
I did and wk is terrible due to having bad encounters I did actually test the path, just didn't bother including the results since they were so bad.
You should publish negative results too, so that Devs can consider it as well heh. Unless you know they know because you know what I don't know. You know. Yeah.
Just my opinion but character creation is nil, feels like I am back in the day of playing "Gauntlet" and just choosing a character:wizard, elf, barbarian. Sad.
I can't say this with any authority but with so much "simplification" of not only interfaces but games play as well, I see two possible reasons.
1 - They need to simplify the whole system because they want to port it to another format/system like mobile gaming or perhaps something like a less sophisticated/weaker game systems/consoles.
2 - The current group of devs simply lack the experience or will tackle the old system. This can be due to many issues but bottom line they may not be actually able to fix it in it's current state without reducing the complexity by many degrees.
Comments
In my opinion, I consider those 6 build the basic build of HR while the other are just hybrid. If those 6 aren't balanced in term of performance, u'll find a lot more complain and unsatisfactory from the HR community in the coming days especially if it goes live. I believe the same goes with the other classes. Except if u guys could communicate better with the community on the new basic build u guys are trying to promote here, their mind will still stick with the past. I'll wait for your HR developer blog.
It would help if you guys read.https://i.imgur.com/KlvsGV7.png
And for clarity, im not disputing how hunter does compared to warden, im comparing ranged only vs stance switching hunter builds.
I think the time has come to develop a new pop-up format that is standard for all equipments, that shows each stat in its own box with its total adjusted value. In the future, this will make it easier to assign completely unique stat arrays to equips.
Beholder and Orcus can be pushed out of position (can't figure out which power is doing it)
Companions are 1-2 shotting Orcus.
eTOS:
Giant spawning spider after 2nd door has been Juicing; 5 times normal size.
FBI:
Final boss getting stunned/freezing in place for easy kill (not sure which power does it).
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
As a result your class could be shown as a cool single target DPS but later you are unable to do your daily, weekly and campaign missions.
Might try with another class to see how they play.
I don't suppose there was a Manticore knocking about (pun intended) when you were in CN?
Also, send my regards to the other Russians lurking and talking about these threads on the RU forums, I see them :P They should post their feedback here, since unlike me I don't think the devs are stalking the RU class forums.
I think it's a lot of work, many thx, even though I think that some variables miss and are hard to measure anyway, since bosses are no static target to hit for 5 min, same as they tend to lift up, vanish or dive or run in circles.
In case of warlock you drop all buffs that moment in short and it takes up to a minute to stack them again.
Another variable that can influence a shard like that is when testing a class you only sometimes or never play with, knowing myself how bad the personal performance sometimes looks like, thinking "Why... I did everything correct?"
I can not point at any class-specific feats or powers, but I haven't played every class on test, never mind memorized all of their powers and feats.
For the test, we literally just had someone go afk near the dummy while hoping the test DPSer stayed in CA by positioning
This Desperately needs to be fixed.
if i was picking this game up for the first time it would be rather easy to walk away because i don't feel like i am investing in a character i am just jumping through hoops.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
> Just my opinion but character creation is nil, feels like I am back in the day of playing "Gauntlet" and just choosing a character:wizard, elf, barbarian. Sad.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246612/mod-17-proposal-nw-gauntlet
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Agreed.
Added feedback color for emphasis.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
1 - They need to simplify the whole system because they want to port it to another format/system like mobile gaming or perhaps something like a less sophisticated/weaker game systems/consoles.
2 - The current group of devs simply lack the experience or will tackle the old system. This can be due to many issues but bottom line they may not be actually able to fix it in it's current state without reducing the complexity by many degrees.