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Mod 16: The good, the bad and the rest
adinosii
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
Mod 16 is not out yet.
What is currently on Preview is not final. There are bugs (like serious scaling issues with stronghold mobs) and there are various features that will get tweaked or changed before release - however, other things are pretty much set in stone at the moment.
I was a part of the Alpha playtest, so I have had over a month to think about the changes coming with Mod 16. As you might expect there are some things I like and others that, well...do not improve the game as far as I am concerned, but anyhow, here is my personal opinion:
What is currently on Preview is not final. There are bugs (like serious scaling issues with stronghold mobs) and there are various features that will get tweaked or changed before release - however, other things are pretty much set in stone at the moment.
I was a part of the Alpha playtest, so I have had over a month to think about the changes coming with Mod 16. As you might expect there are some things I like and others that, well...do not improve the game as far as I am concerned, but anyhow, here is my personal opinion:
The good
- The campaign. The new areas look great, and the storyline is fine. OK, maybe some bits and pieces are slightly silly, like the sandcastle-building Kuo-Toa and the Sword+Dragon combination, but overall the new campaign is enjoyable and well done. Sure, there are bugs and issues here and there, but those can get fixed - the campaign design is solid.
- ID scroll removal. The ID scrolls were just an annoyance - I am glad to see them gone. I would have liked the VIP ID scrolls to be replaced with something, though - maybe some healing potions.
- Enchant exchange. With all the changes most players will have to change their builds - they may find out they have too much of one rating and too little of another. Being able to swap enchants and obsolete insignia solves that problem really nicely.
- The ward use cap. No risk of needing 10 wards on a 50% chance. Great.
- Companion changes. Previously everyone would run with one of a few "BiS" companions, but the changes make a larger number of companions viable - at least in certain situations. Decoupling gear from companions also makes it much easier to swap companions in and out as needed.
- Discouragement of bad practices. Things like "standing in the red" or rushing ahead of the group are now actively punished. People have to actively work together, which is a good thing.
- The stats/counterstats. The implementation is not perfect, but the basic idea is good, and should help with the long-term viability of the game - it is easy to add new areas with even higher rating requirements and corresponding new ranks of gear.
The mixed
- The new level cap. Going from 70 to 80 had to happen at some point, and it opens up progression, but at the same time it makes a ton of gear obsolete. Blue level 72-73 random drops outperform BiS level 70 gear, but that is simply the nature of games of this kind.
- The game is harder - partly due to the removal of lifesteal. That is a good thing...it brings back a sorely-needed challenge for well-geared players. At the same time, the game may have become annoyingly hard for less-geared players, who might have to grind or spend money to get back to actually being able to handle content they could manage before.
- The "1DPS+4Buffers" meta-group is effectively dead. Group content is intended to need a healer now (In some cases it doesn't, but that is partly a tuning issue). Some people may enjoy that - there are people that want to play healers and have been annoyed by the fact that they are not needed. Others liked being in a more generic buff/support sole and may not like the restrictive choices now open to them.
- Companions now take only companion-specific gear. That's logical, really. However, many players are now stuck with rings they previously used on companions and those rings are now essentially useless.
- Scaling. I can see the point of scaling down when you go to "easier" areas, but I am worried they might not get it working correctly - it is way, way to buggy at the moment. Also, some people get a kick out of going back to "easier" areas and smash through content they struggled with before, but that is not really feasible any more.
The bad
- Character creation is being dumbed down. Initial primary stats (STR/DEX/etc) now depend only on your class (modified by racial bonuses and later choices). We lose our ability to customize characters and gain nothing. Character creation is a big part of what D&D is about for me, but this makes me feel like I am not trusted to make my own choices.
- The bonuses from primary stats are the same for all classes.. The is fine for some classes, but not others - the highest stats may give bonuses that are just inappropriate for that class.
- The bonuses from the primary stats are so bad that it really does not matter what they are (which somewhat invalidates the previous complaint). Maxing out a stat, and getting only a 0.25% bonus to damage or something that is just unacceptably bad.
- The boons have been dumbed down too. No more hard choices to make. No chances to customize characters based on playstyle.
- Feats used to be meaningful, and have an impact, but the current arrangement of 5 pairs is just bad. There is just no logic to the feats for many classes - and sometimes you have to choose between two good or two really bad ones.
- Professions are practically useless for now. There is not a single Masterwork item worth making. Crafters can make +1 Armor kits (for the new level 80 armors players are getting) or healing potions, but that's about it. There may be new recipes in Mod 17, but for now crafting is effectively dead. I would have liked to see something like craftable BiS shirts/pants or (better yet), craftable Masterwork companion gear.
- Healers are effectively required, but no real attention is given to them. There is a primary stat that gives a bonus to incoming healing, but no stat helps improve Outgoing healing (you can improve that in other ways, though). None of the new weapons, artifacts or artifact gear seem to be designed to benefit healers - they all seem designed for DPSers or Tanks. Forcing players into one of three rigid roles and then ignoring one of the roles like this is not fair. Quite frankly I cannot imagine many people being enthusiastic about playing healers.
Hoping for improvements...
18
Comments
The good:
1) Removal of ID scrolls and auto identified items for everyone. I have been asking this for years, they finally listened.
2) The new boon system. Despite not giving much room for choice (there is some at the highest tiers), I think that it actually is an improvement, because it allows characters to be more competitive without strictly requiring them to run through campaigns that they dislike. Depending on your build, most the previous "choices" were false choices anyway (as in, you could only nerf yourself by picking the wrong one).
3) Level cap increase. A long time coming. This will help even the field between The Haves and The Have Nots, the gap was just too wide and a reset had to happen.
4) Refine all insignias button. Another QoL feature that should have been a long time ago.
The mixed:
1) The overall adjustment of stats. Removing Lifesteal was a good idea, Removing Recovery (without a proper substitute) was not. At least Armor Penetration was finally toned down to be a proper counter of Defense, instead of being twice as effective.
2) Companions adjustments. I like it that it's more streamlined and simplified, however, two things worry me, the first one is that what's the point of augments anymore if the only runestones we can slot are the Bonding ones? Do Augments trigger those in mod 16. I could not verify it properly. The second problem is that companions now wear only Companion dedicated gear. This might cause issues with inventory management and certain characters may find their own companion naked.
The bad:
1) The general feel of combat is that it's been slowed down. This is very serious and can be a game killer for what used to be a fast paced action oriented game. At-wills being too weak, Dailies being too strong, and Encounters have too long cooldowns (in fact Dailies happen more often than encounters, since the AP generation is sky high right now on preview).
2) Class balance issues. Perhaps too early to judge, but it really feels like the situation here gotten worse from live. From what I heard, Barbarian is in a very bad place, and Paladin got hit very hard with the nerf hammer (this may be their fault though, since they are too used with such an easy mode class since mod 6). I've also played along with a cleric that really not satisfied by his healer spec, and he felt it was underwhelming. Most feats and passive powers also feel useless.
3) Adding more RNG to combat was negative. The choices to limit Crit and Deflect to to 50%, as well as the additions of Critical Avoidance and Accuracy, increase the impact of RNG from an offensive perspective. RNG in combat simply detracts from player decisions, skills and reaction times and transfers it to automatic computer calculations.
Great analysis done by the OP. A (almost) totally agree. I will not focus on the good or mixed. All these changes seem necessary for the long term health of the game.
Here my two cents:
- Character creation and progression has been oversimplified. As the OP said, one of the main characteristics of D&D is character design, resulting in hard choices at character creation and during leveling. But now we will have cookie cutter builds that all are essentially the same (at least for one paragon path). For instance boons: Practically all players will chose the same boons (in nearly the same sequence), except possibly for the two master boons at top tier. Then feats: how many feats to chose from now (and then some choices are just bad)? Awful
- I understand that the number of powers (at-wills, encounters, dailies) were reduced. Most powers haven't been useful anyway. Mostly the good/useful powers have been retained (except buffs, nearly gone entirely due to general design choice). But why change the animation of the "good" powers? Take for instance GWF Weapon Master Strike. Its replacement power (other name but similar behavior) just feels very clunky to use. It would have been much nicer (and the changes would have been easier to bear), if the general behavior (including activitation time etc.) of the powers that survived the cut would have been closer to what we have come to know and enjoy. But no, everything had to change.
- Along the same line, why introduce a new micromanagement burden (divinity) for healers (OP/DC). Playing a healing class is difficult enough. DPS and Tank typically only have to concentrate on the boss (maybe keeping the adds in their peripheral awareness). The healer has to concentrate on four players, that move around constantly (likely the tank has to move as well in mod 16) and are almost always in need of being healed (simultaneously or successively). In addition the healer has to keep out of the red areas, out of mob clusters. Keeping a constantly moving player targeted (with cursor targeting) is hard enough. Furthermore, I have to make tough choices what healing power to use, depending on the health state of the other players. But on top of that I now need to micromanage my divinity. Totally uncalled for. Not fun
- Soloing older content, without another player who heals. Will it be possible? Will it take 10 times as long? I couldn't playtest much, but the current results don't bode well. Some mobs almost one-shot the excellently geared solo player (level 71+, all enchants level 14 in all slots). Often old content takes much longer and only seems soloable with a healing companion (at reduced speed) or a tanking/dps companion that essentially does all the work (also reduced speed). It seems every old area and every instance in these areas needs to be rebalanced.
- Obviously we require a huge rebalancing effort from the devs. This requires an intelligent approach, that limits the number of resources used (and the frustration of the players on launch)!. Currently the approach of the devs seems to be not very well thought through (requiring a huge amount of future work and causing a huge amount of frustration for the not so well geared players): Currently the approach of the Devs seems to be: Make all old areas and instances very hard and then react to the complaints. I suggest otherwise: Make the old content very easy and then gradually up the difficulty (of an area or instance), if the actual play statistics on live show that the typical completion time is too short.
- A similar approach should be taken for random queues. Currently the levelling queue seems to hard. (didnt try intermediate or higher). Master of the Hunt (MoH) is a level 64 skirmish in the leveling queue. It is where new players will try to earn their first AD (and will likely quit after the experience). MoH currently one-shots even near bis (lvl 70) players. It seems impossible to complete for "low geared" players that just turned lvl 64. It seems a better strategy (for live) to lean more towards the "easy" side, carefully monitoring completion time and how often the dungeon/skirmish/trial is selected (on private queue). If completion time is too short or one instance is largely preferred over all others, the difficulty can be increased (or rewards decreased). Seems a better strategy than to make everything extra difficult at the beginning.
Furthermore, combat has become a kiting feast (in the 5+ instances). Cannot stand still at all if there is more than one mob close. Dps often need to run far away from the mobs to have encounters recharge and get some heals from their companion. Not really fun. I realize, that healers should play a greater role. I agree. I love healing. But healing with extra divinity micromanagement is not fun. And if the dps must constantly run away from the fun to survive, how am I gonna heal them? I am not so fast and then the tank also needs heals.
EDIT: additional explanation for the current difficulties with healing (admittedly based on just one run)
Currently the damage - in combination with CC from boss/mobs - seems too high, at least in the instance played (MoH).
The DPS gets hit for more than 50% health. Often not just one DPS, but all three. Mobs close in or red zone lits up. Not knowing if I can heal on short notice (sometimes I cant) the DPS run as far away as possible. Maybe drinking a healing potion for +20% health. Then darting back at around 50% health, hoping I can target the zig-zaging things and heal them up.
The problem is the combination of
- cursor targeting,
- combined with the need for heals (good, healing is again meaningful),
- plus hits in the 50% range
If DPS can effectively only take one hit, they must move.
The more people move, the harder they are to target.
Hard targeting (via macro) is out of the question, if one constantly needs to switch targets.
Also macro-design requires skills that not every player has and might not be allowed by the TOS.
Bottom line: Cursor targeting for heals effectively requires targets, that can stand still for a while.
This means, players need to be able to take a couple of hits, before they go down
Depending on the frequency of attacks only the most difficult bosses should hit for 50% health at maximum.
Adds should hit for significantly less and should have limited cc
Also, I agree, the new campaign gets an A+ from me. It gets better as you go through it, it's not time gated and having multiple zones keeps it fresh.
The biggest problem(s) I see with M16 outside of obvious bugs, is the lack of interesting feats/class powers, Powers/Encounters that seem under-whelming. This problem is huge and the devs need to continue to respond to feedback and work on all the classes.
As a support Cleric I feel like im mostly limited to being just a heal bot. I just wish we were given a little bit more to offer to support the group in a dungeon. If it's not going to come from our base character builds, then at least some features for Clerics and all our classes should be incorporated into the gear.
Bottom line:
One of the main reasons they stated for this class changes was to help with server load. Remember this dev comment last year? - "We cant give you any more Tiamats because it will lag on the console". Fine! No more excuses now. We need great qued group content, proper skirmishes, dungeons and raids.
If they don't provide great qued group content going forward this year, I will consider this whole thing a failure.
> Mod 16 is not out yet.
>
> What is currently on Preview is not final. There are bugs (like serious scaling issues with stronghold mobs) and there are various features that will get tweaked or changed before release - however, other things are pretty much set in stone at the moment.
>
> I was a part of the Alpha playtest, so I have had over a month to think about the changes coming with Mod 16. As you might expect there are some things I like and others that, well...do not improve the game as far as I am concerned, but anyhow, here is my personal opinion: The good
>
>
> * The campaign. The new areas look great, and the storyline is fine. OK, maybe some bits and pieces are slightly silly, like the sandcastle-building Kuo-Toa and the Sword+Dragon combination, but overall the new campaign is enjoyable and well done. Sure, there are bugs and issues here and there, but those can get fixed - the campaign design is solid.
>
> * ID scroll removal. The ID scrolls were just an annoyance - I am glad to see them gone. I would have liked the VIP ID scrolls to be replaced with something, though - maybe some healing potions.
>
> * Enchant exchange. With all the changes most players will have to change their builds - they may find out they have too much of one rating and too little of another. Being able to swap enchants and obsolete insignia solves that problem really nicely.
>
> * The ward use cap. No risk of needing 10 wards on a 50% chance. Great.
>
> * Companion changes. Previously everyone would run with one of a few "BiS" companions, but the changes make a larger number of companions viable - at least in certain situations. Decoupling gear from companions also makes it much easier to swap companions in and out as needed.
>
> * Discouragement of bad practices. Things like "standing in the red" or rushing ahead of the group are now actively punished. People have to actively work together, which is a good thing.
>
> * The stats/counterstats. The implementation is not perfect, but the basic idea is good, and should help with the long-term viability of the game - it is easy to add new areas with even higher rating requirements and corresponding new ranks of gear.
>
>
> The mixed
>
>
> * The new level cap. Going from 70 to 80 had to happen at some point, and it opens up progression, but at the same time it makes a ton of gear obsolete. Blue level 72-73 random drops outperform BiS level 70 gear, but that is simply the nature of games of this kind.
>
> * The game is harder - partly due to the removal of lifesteal. That is a good thing...it brings back a sorely-needed challenge for well-geared players. At the same time, the game may have become annoyingly hard for less-geared players, who might have to grind or spend money to get back to actually being able to handle content they could manage before.
>
> * The "1DPS+4Buffers" meta-group is effectively dead. Group content is intended to need a healer now (In some cases it doesn't, but that is partly a tuning issue). Some people may enjoy that - there are people that want to play healers and have been annoyed by the fact that they are not needed. Others liked being in a more generic buff/support sole and may not like the restrictive choices now open to them.
>
> * Companions now take only companion-specific gear. That's logical, really. However, many players are now stuck with rings they previously used on companions and those rings are now essentially useless.
>
> * Scaling. I can see the point of scaling down when you go to "easier" areas, but I am worried they might not get it working correctly - it is way, way to buggy at the moment. Also, some people get a kick out of going back to "easier" areas and smash through content they struggled with before, but that is not really feasible any more.
>
>
> The bad
>
>
> * Character creation is being dumbed down. Initial primary stats (STR/DEX/etc) now depend only on your class (modified by racial bonuses and later choices). We lose our ability to customize characters and gain nothing. Character creation is a big part of what D&D is about for me, but this makes me feel like I am not trusted to make my own choices.
>
> * The bonuses from primary stats are the same for all classes.. The is fine for some classes, but not others - the highest stats may give bonuses that are just inappropriate for that class.
>
> * The bonuses from the primary stats are so bad that it really does not matter what they are (which somewhat invalidates the previous complaint). Maxing out a stat, and getting only a 0.25% bonus to damage or something that is just unacceptably bad.
>
> * The boons have been dumbed down too. No more hard choices to make. No chances to customize characters based on playstyle.
>
> * Feats used to be meaningful, and have an impact, but the current arrangement of 5 pairs is just bad. There is just no logic to the feats for many classes - and sometimes you have to choose between two good or two really bad ones.
>
> * Professions are practically useless for now. There is not a single Masterwork item worth making. Crafters can make +1 Armor kits (for the new level 80 armors players are getting) or healing potions, but that's about it. There may be new recipes in Mod 17, but for now crafting is effectively dead. I would have liked to see something like craftable BiS shirts/pants or (better yet), craftable Masterwork companion gear.
>
> * Healers are effectively required, but no real attention is given to them. There is a primary stat that gives a bonus to incoming healing, but no stat helps improve Outgoing healing (you can improve that in other ways, though). None of the new weapons, artifacts or artifact gear seem to be designed to benefit healers - they all seem designed for DPSers or Tanks. Forcing players into one of three rigid roles and then ignoring one of the roles like this is not fair. Quite frankly I cannot imagine many people being enthusiastic about playing healers.
>
>
> Having said all this, I am hopeful that some of the "bad" things will get fixed before release.
Couple quick questions or asking your opinion.
1) Gameplay is one of the main reasons I enjoy the game: it sounds like this has been slowed down massively, how do you feel with changes? Is game play just as quick, slower, turtle pace now?
2) Scaling old content to me seems like a game killer: one thing I love is being able to go back and crush things that took me ages to.beat at level. Is scaling that bad (meaning a CN run that took 30 minutes when leveling will take 30 min, will it take the same time 2 mods later, when the loot drops dont matter?
3) Your opinion on companion changes and supposed nerfs to the archons? Money grab/time grab by devs since most people did bring those up to legendary.
4) Last but not least, in your opinion does the positives outweigh the negatives or will this kill the game population?
Thanks for feedback
Now I have to actually think, be careful not to pull multiple groups, and time my dailies much better than I used to. It is harder, and slower, but that is OK. What I don't like, however, (as an Arbiter Cleric) is that I have to stand still for up to 20 seconds after fights just pressing Tab to recharge my Divinity. That's just plain boring and serves no good purpose.
2) Scaling is still buggy in many places, like the Stronghold....but yes, I used for example to play through the old Phantasmal Fortress regularly for a decent reward with very little effort. Now that mini-dungeon actually feels hard - even harder than most of the 70-80 campaign content in fact. However, the Challenge Campaigns may change the situation, and make it worthwhile to go through "old" content.
3) I had 3 legendary archons, and now use only the bonus from one of them, so I know what you mean, but it's not something that bothers me ... I expect "BiS" companions to change over time anyhow.
4) The depends entirely on how many of the "bad" things get fixed before this goes life. The treatment of the primary stats (the first 3 "bad" points) is pretty much a showstopper for me. Will the game changes result in 5% of the playerbase quitting, or 35%? Again, it depends on what actually goes live. For now I am just waiting and hoping that some of the most serious issues don't go live.
For the classes, some of them will almost certainly be getting some changes that make things easier. For the areas, well, scaling just does not work properly yet everywhere - the Stronghold is pretty painful right now, for example, but that is a known issue and will be fixed.
Overall, I think soloing will be somewhat harder than it currently is - not really a challenge for well-geared characters, but those who currently struggle may find things have become just too difficult.
If you got for example three grimoires, but your companion used three rings, you were basically stuck ... but now you should be able to use every gear piece in any slot (except for a small bug which should get fixed), so those grimoires will actually be useful (which is why their price went up on the AH, by the way, to match that of companion-only rings.)
This basically means increased supply of companion gear in the long run.
The problem I see is the following:
So far, all of you have been looking at the "old" content from the perspective of an experienced (bis or near-bis) player, that has already done the campaign and is returning for fun. But from the perspective of new players, that still must do *all* old campaigns to get their boon points, things look very much differently
- new players just starting a campaign are usually badly geared. If its a challenge for bis-players, it might become frustrating for new players. On the bright side, mod 16 will reduce the difference between bis players and newly geared players dramatically. But still, a challenge for the bis players might result in "nearly impossible and not fun" for a newly geared player (even if level 80 with gear basic gear from the mod 16 campaign)
- even now (when old campaigns are fairly easy for newly geared players), it takes a very long time for new players to catch up. Will they be willing to spend even more time? Or will they quit because it takes even longer? On the bright side: The difference between the maximum of 70 boon points (over all campaign including mod 16) and say 50 boon points is not that large (the most important stat increases can be got with ~50 points),
- From an economic point of view, Cryptic must focus on new players, because they are far more likely to pay money. Old players have almost everything they need, they know how to get AD/ZEN most effectively without paying real money. One needs to strike a balance between "too difficult and too long to catch up" and "willingness to decrease catch-up time by spending real money". I guess, the concept of "challenge campaigns" tips the scale towards "I will never catch up" (unless I buy all campaign buyout tokens for ~200$). Its not for me to decide, where the optimum lies. I can only hope that Cryptic is aware that 200$ per character just for boons could become a problem.
The new zones look awesome..
The bad
Everything else!!
Simply:
Using a three ring companion means now I have to dramatically drop iL? Think of those legendary [orange] companions all sitting around upset
Scaling down worries me also.
Regular content not being solable worries me a LOT.
However, if it forces people to party up then maybe that is a good thing. I used to be amazed at how in Chult, Barovia and other campaigns no one would party up to make things faster, smoother and more sociable.
+4 companion gear is relatively cheap, is unbound and has two enchant slots each. This means you need three +4 companion gear pieces and 6 enchantments (runes), plus three bondings, which you likely already have on your summoned (legendary) companion. If you are on a low budget and for instance play a DC one week and a GWF the next week, you can even mail all companion gear to your current week's toon, because bondings and +4 gear is unbound!
You never need to change the companion equipment, if you change your companion. The only scenario where you need additional gear for your companion is a special loadout, that switches companion gear with one stat for companion gear with a different stat. But it is far more efficient to have generic stats on the companion, needed in all loadouts (and all toons you play), and switch stats via changing equipment on the character itself.
Your legendary companions are not totally useless. True is, you can only use one at a time. But if you need the special buff/debuff of another legendary, you can do so. Its just, that we cannot combine five legendaries. But due to diminishing returns, most only had two or three legendaries, because the additional stat increase from the fourth and fifth were negligible. But you know that :-)
I don't have any alt which I could replace it, because no one has all the campaigns .. I don't agree to a recurrent painful grind, while repeating boring content. Especially in the scaling system.
I thought I was tough. However, this time Cryptic defeated me. I regret, because I like the other positive changes.
Another sad change is the loss of meaningful combat buff feats. Adjusting your rotation for each situation to maximize your buffs in order to maximize your damage was something that added more depth to combat.
I main a MoF CW on the live server and I do like the slowing of combat in a general sense. However in some current endgame dungeons like CR the amount of dmg dealt by the grp is not enough to progress pass the portal after the sister of vengeance. The grp agreed it was our extended cool downs of the encounters and dailies.
I am wondering if perhaps the Devs would be so kind as to lower the cool downs OR increase the time needed to kill the portals.
Guild Leader of The Sword Coast Knights
Awareness mean that we can detect invisible creatures, secret doors and traps?
Accuracy for successful hits??
Awareness is the armor penetration to Combat Advantage. Accuracy to Deflection.
Deflect would be for "Dodging" instead of Accuracy, because that word sound like shooting right on the mark or hitting right on mark, if you are shield bearer and talented enough to reflect damages back. look up "Parry", it said deflect, sidestep, fend off, avert, counter-move, and evasion, so I would pick Evasion.
so, Accuracy seem a wrong word, it means "Precision", exactness, perfect and Zero in", that what Thesaurus said in book.
Awareness is "perception, recognition, and insight" there is no word meaning for armor penetration in thesaurus or webster. again wrong choice of word, true word for armor penetration is "Piercing". i can use other word, "expose".
please take those words to programmer, using wrong words only confuse players even more. replace with Evasion for Accuracy, and Piercing for Awareness. if they (devs) dont change, then they dont listen to players, so please stop confusing. and if not sure, then Please look up Thesaurus and Merriam-Webster. i am sure other players who read this and look up will know.
Deflect doesn't really have a proper counter word anyways, so Accuracy is fine IMO.