> @eliasar#2396 said: > Im afraid you are failing to see the difference between new endgame content and encouraging players into 4 support meta runs this developer team HAS BEEN ACTUALY FIGHTING AGAINST for a while and in order to do that even nerfed one DC path. Now, we are getting event that was supposed to be new hope for line of events that were lately rather... unpopular, however tales of old, instead of fighting this reputation... joined exactly these events as it will be remembered for lot of players (even endgame ones) with rather unfitting mark "elitist" simply because it supports, by a lot of people actualy used but hated, meta. Of course content can be completed without that but this makes circle of people who can actualy run whole event content even smaller due time and death cap with increasing "levels" of difficulty. > That is, @gromovnipljesak#8234 the thing, I believe that people are complaining about.
That doesnt change the fact that endgame content is supposed to be hard, and the way players deal with it should be up to them. For the 1st time in a while theres something bis people can bite into, and now ya whining about endgame players having that too... Smh
No, it doesnt. It just justifies people´s frustration. People arent "whinning" because content isnt completeable. People are "whinning" just because unless they are support classes or have few days of time in row to play, they are out of any chance to really enjoy the event. I personaly refuse running with meta parties in event since I like challenge, but while having far less time to play than in the past, so I can give you my feedback on possibility to get anything from this event. Im trying really hard to ignore this, however I just cant say the "challenging runs of old dungeons" (which is welcomed), and "grindfestival" (running meta parties, so you can at least try to profit out of event that stops being as much challenge due 4 support composition, until it makes you reconsider your life choices) are similar thing. Im terribly sorry if it sounds like "whinning" to you, however I rather prefer calling this as facing reality we currently have in game, reality that should be solved for the sake of these event.
Somewhat, despite of the fact I previously said I dont have any hopes for mod16... there is thing or two I hope for. Stopping 4 support parties being so extremely popular, needed or encouraged for most newest endgame runs.
Should they remove Lifesteal it'll greatly impact my ability to play as a CW , because i rely on it to survive. Squishy classes,like cw, need a way to regain hp and stay alive without having to rely on a DC all the time. I could accept such a change only provided they replace it with some other hp recovery mechanic, like regeneration working in combat as it used to. Alternatevily they could make lifesteal a property of certain equipment, for example a pair of gloves that give lifesteal. or a class feature. So i'm against completely removing it as a game mechanism. Also if the "Tales of old laggiest event ever" is any indication of what's to come i can safely say that Mod16 will be an utter failure. Come on Cryptic i know you can do it.......make it as bad as possible, i have faith in you.
I am not allowed (because of the NDA) to reveal any information about M16, however I can say the following:
There is a lot of rumors floating around and some of those rumours are mutually contradictory. For that reason alone, it is clear that at least some of them are a complete fabrication.
I have become bored with the game in its current state. After getting all the M15 boons, I have just been logging in to collect my daily VIP key. I also resigned from an officer position in my guild, as I had pretty much lost the motivation to play. Once M16 goes live, I expect my motivation to be back, and I do not expect to be bored.
The game currently has some pretty serious issues, some of which threaten the long-term viability of the game. The developers are very much aware of those issues. Whether Mod 16 does something about any or all of those issues is something that will be revealed at some point
I know that you're not allowed to talk about it but ,if Tales of old is any indication, i can safely say that Mod 16 won't save the game.
seeing the state of this last event (mad dragon) and the probable route that the game will take along with some of these rumors in the web( if they are true) we will have a dejavu in module 16
if I remember correctly, those layoffs were within a month of Mod 6 being released. The Mod 6 from Hell...
* max level raised to 70 * Elemental Evil zones requiring a minimum of 50 quests to complete, including the infamous 16 dailies required in each section of the zone to advance. Thus over 200 quests to reach the end of spinward rise. * Change in curves for arm pen, power, crit, etc, which made each area progressively tougher past level 60. * IWD and WOD had such harsh dmg by NPC's that they were avoided by all fresh level 70's including experienced players until they could get modestly good gear.
Please for the sanity of the masses, lets not even go there again!!
I hope that the developers forget the campaign this module. Want them to rebalance all the classes. Bug fix all of the broken powers. Then I hope that they reintroduce some of the old dungeons and perform a slight rework on the dungeon queue system. I like the idea that dungeons get progressively harder. Just wish they did so in a way that meant you could climb up that ladder say once every 2 weeks rather than once every 3 months (depending on money paid etc). In this slight rework I personally would have daily and weekly dungeon buffs. They should be ludicrously difficult. Offer ludicrous rewards on completion and should offer special cosmetic bonuses. Might sound like the Heart of Fire weekly dungeon but that doesn't give ludicrous rewards and isn't ludicrously hard - it just requires a very high gear-score. And weekly bonus content should be scaling with players item level, not punishing them for it.
Have my hopes been misplaced? - yes. How do I know? Read the last 3 years worth of feedback and then read the the release notes.
At this point I don't even know what the developers do. Balanced is gone - but who does the class balance now? Sure that's not the only role having big boots in need of filling in the company of late.
> @pentagram#8962 said: > I hope that the developers forget the campaign this module. Want them to rebalance all the classes. Bug fix all of the broken powers. > Then I hope that they reintroduce some of the old dungeons and perform a slight rework on the dungeon queue system. I like the idea that dungeons get progressively harder. Just wish they did so in a way that meant you could climb up that ladder say once every 2 weeks rather than once every 3 months (depending on money paid etc). In this slight rework I personally would have daily and weekly dungeon buffs. They should be ludicrously difficult. Offer ludicrous rewards on completion and should offer special cosmetic bonuses. Might sound like the Heart of Fire weekly dungeon but that doesn't give ludicrous rewards and isn't ludicrously hard - it just requires a very high gear-score. And weekly bonus content should be scaling with players item level, not punishing them for it. > > Have my hopes been misplaced? - yes. How do I know? Read the last 3 years worth of feedback and then read the the release notes. > > At this point I don't even know what the developers do. Balanced is gone - but who does the class balance now? Sure that's not the only role having big boots in need of filling in the company of late.
Noworries is doing class balance afaik. Rumor has it that m16 is completely different in terms of balance.
Not to mention a couple testers are likely to have the exact opposite opinion on things compared to half of the playerbase.
4
rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
And unless they took testers from all levels of characters, not just players that only have 17k-18k toons, they won't get an idea of how the changes will affect all types of players. And from how it appears, that is not what they did.
3
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Personally, I don't care (I don't like testing myself), but I agree that restricting "alpha" testing to a few select players is a mistake.
First, because they're gonna form an "echo chamber" that will provide and reinforce feedback in a direction that will be more likely to coincide with the opinion of this small group of testers rather than the majority of the player base. How likely is such a small sample of players to fairly represent the broad spectrum of players that actually play the game? Not very.
And second, because there are actual players that will be privy to information concerning the game itself way before the vast majority of other players (and they're even excused from sharing it, since they're obliged under NDA to not do so), giving them an advantage in knowledge of gameplay mechanics that public testers most likely won't have the time to achieve, there's clearly a conflict of interests here.
Unless... well unless Cryptic is not really interested in their feedback at all. And it's just trying to scrounge free Bug Hunting + free Hype for the new mod, it would be a shady practice, but hey, if there are people who accept it, who am I to judge?
1
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
As you know, the NDA restricts what we can talk about. For example, I cannot comment on the reasons why the developers felt a closed playtest would be a good idea for M16, considering they have not done anything like it since M9.
I can say the following, however: The playtesters have different interests, opinions and priorities. Some are more interested in testing new content, while others are more interested in testing changes.
We also do not agree on everything - we have different favourite builds and playstyles, and different opinion on how we would like the game to evolve. So, actually I think we represent a fairly large part of the playerbase...maybe not inexperienced newbies, but we remember what it was like to be one.
While most of us may have BiS (or close to BiS) characters, we are not just running around playing those.
As for personal advantage, yes there is some truth in that...we might be able to guess that something might increase or decrease in price, due to changes in demand, for example. I do not think playtesters are generslly abusing that inside information, however.
However, some of the playtesters might be working on guides scheduled for release once the NDA is lifted and having those guides would benefit the playerbase as a whole...save everyone some time.
Hoping for improvements...
2
rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
I just think if they want to get a true sample of playing players that they should use people that have been playing for 5 years, 5 weeks or even 5 days. Each of those will have different views on the game, that would better direct what they game needs. The more diversity in testing, the better the end result will be.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
And a lot of these long time players couldn't give two @#$%s about things like the GWF having more diverse options than just swordmaster destroyer, swordmaster destroyer, swordmaster destroyer...
Of course the devs can never get into improving those areas when the players themselves don't care. Almost no one even bothered to tell how useless the instigator improvements or the damnation ones are because they don't care.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
From what I have seen.... mod 16 will make some of you laugh... more of you cry... and a handful of you leave the game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
From what I have seen.... mod 16 will make some of you laugh... more of you cry... and a handful of you leave the game.
i am already at my last laught, just look at the artifacts we got recently : 1 spinning coin - broken ( 3 tries to fix, still broken ) 2 waukeen's horde - broken ( 2 tries to fix, still broken ) 3 gond - broken ( 0 tries to fix ) 4 journal - broken ( 0 tries to fix ? )
How does one even get to be part of the super secretive M16 testing? I haven’t given the forums too much attention to learn the ways and I’ve only been logging in long enough to collect my daily key from VIP (which should be ending soon.) I’ve been pretty uninspired to play the last several months (PS4/PC) especially after seeing the last update. Professions became a jumbled mess (just my opinion, sorry devs) and the story that was added was too silly and had horrible voiceovers. Not to mention it was intended for newer players and the horrible stability on console (I main on console) still wasn’t addressed.
As for predictions? Well, there are many rumors floating about and I hope some of them are just rumors and nothing more. But only time will tell.
Now, if someone would like to inform me if it’s even possible to get involved with this super secretive M16 testing that would be cool. Thanks.
Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
Isn't the closed test kind of what we always ask for?
Every new Mod drops to the sound of "I bet these devs don't even play the game!!! Why don't they just talk to X, Y and Z and get them to do the testing?"
Should that now read, "Why don't they talk to X, Y and Z, and ME of course... I don't want to be kept in the dark... oh and I don't want any NDA... I want to publicly criticise every suggestion, idea and vague notion before it even gets tried!"
I could be completely wrong but I believe they've only invited the people who took part in the mod 9 beta test (they even have a special tag on the forums). This happened shortly before I started playing Neverwinter so I don't know how these people were selected in the first place.
Of course I feel frustrated not to be part of it but I hope they figured some meaningful ways of selecting people for the beta test.
On the other hand they usually don't have the time to fix most of the bugs reported on the preview forums before releasing a new mod so I don't see how a private beta test is gonna make any difference. They will probably get less feedback but that doesn't guarantee higher quality.
Isn't the closed test kind of what we always ask for?
Every new Mod drops to the sound of "I bet these devs don't even play the game!!! Why don't they just talk to X, Y and Z and get them to do the testing?"
Should that now read, "Why don't they talk to X, Y and Z, and ME of course... I don't want to be kept in the dark... oh and I don't want any NDA... I want to publicly criticise every suggestion, idea and vague notion before it even gets tried!"
becouse people that report things from preview, before mods go live are ignored. and now we have NDA beta testing, suddenly they care " suspicious " if you ask me.
I could be completely wrong but I believe they've only invited the people who took part in the mod 9 beta test (they even have a special tag on the forums).
Unfortunately not. People, who tend to criticize devs "products" were skipped in this test
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
2
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I could be completely wrong but I believe they've only invited the people who took part in the mod 9 beta test (they even have a special tag on the forums).
Unfortunately not. People, who tend to criticize devs "products" were skipped in this test
> @ghoulz66 said: > I could be completely wrong but I believe they've only invited the people who took part in the mod 9 beta test (they even have a special tag on the forums). > > > Unfortunately not. People, who tend to criticize devs "products" were skipped in this test > > > > > > Not even a logical critique is acceptable.
Well, doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Is it not to offer bug reports and constructive criticisms so that when the content goes to a public beta phase or even live that it’s at its best?
Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
So the short answer is ... no If you want to be part of tests put in lots of hours. Lots and lots of hours...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
How does one even get to be part....?
Well, maybe some of the following would help.
Have a proven track record of providing useful feedback on Preview. Have a track record of providing useful information on the Arc, Reddit or Steam forums. Have a track record of creating useful guides or videos. In general, show an interest in making the game better - and that includes pointing out flaws and issues with the current design. The playtesters are not just "yes people". Have years of experience with the game. Do not have problems like supporting glitches or violating the ToS.
Comments
> Im afraid you are failing to see the difference between new endgame content and encouraging players into 4 support meta runs this developer team HAS BEEN ACTUALY FIGHTING AGAINST for a while and in order to do that even nerfed one DC path. Now, we are getting event that was supposed to be new hope for line of events that were lately rather... unpopular, however tales of old, instead of fighting this reputation... joined exactly these events as it will be remembered for lot of players (even endgame ones) with rather unfitting mark "elitist" simply because it supports, by a lot of people actualy used but hated, meta. Of course content can be completed without that but this makes circle of people who can actualy run whole event content even smaller due time and death cap with increasing "levels" of difficulty.
> That is, @gromovnipljesak#8234 the thing, I believe that people are complaining about.
That doesnt change the fact that endgame content is supposed to be hard, and the way players deal with it should be up to them.
For the 1st time in a while theres something bis people can bite into, and now ya whining about endgame players having that too... Smh
Im trying really hard to ignore this, however I just cant say the "challenging runs of old dungeons" (which is welcomed), and "grindfestival" (running meta parties, so you can at least try to profit out of event that stops being as much challenge due 4 support composition, until it makes you reconsider your life choices) are similar thing. Im terribly sorry if it sounds like "whinning" to you, however I rather prefer calling this as facing reality we currently have in game, reality that should be solved for the sake of these event.
Somewhat, despite of the fact I previously said I dont have any hopes for mod16... there is thing or two I hope for. Stopping 4 support parties being so extremely popular, needed or encouraged for most newest endgame runs.
* max level raised to 70
* Elemental Evil zones requiring a minimum of 50 quests to complete, including the infamous 16 dailies required in each section of the zone to advance. Thus over 200 quests to reach the end of spinward rise.
* Change in curves for arm pen, power, crit, etc, which made each area progressively tougher past level 60.
* IWD and WOD had such harsh dmg by NPC's that they were avoided by all fresh level 70's including experienced players until they could get modestly good gear.
Please for the sanity of the masses, lets not even go there again!!
Then I hope that they reintroduce some of the old dungeons and perform a slight rework on the dungeon queue system. I like the idea that dungeons get progressively harder. Just wish they did so in a way that meant you could climb up that ladder say once every 2 weeks rather than once every 3 months (depending on money paid etc). In this slight rework I personally would have daily and weekly dungeon buffs. They should be ludicrously difficult. Offer ludicrous rewards on completion and should offer special cosmetic bonuses. Might sound like the Heart of Fire weekly dungeon but that doesn't give ludicrous rewards and isn't ludicrously hard - it just requires a very high gear-score. And weekly bonus content should be scaling with players item level, not punishing them for it.
Have my hopes been misplaced? - yes. How do I know? Read the last 3 years worth of feedback and then read the the release notes.
At this point I don't even know what the developers do. Balanced is gone - but who does the class balance now? Sure that's not the only role having big boots in need of filling in the company of late.
> I hope that the developers forget the campaign this module. Want them to rebalance all the classes. Bug fix all of the broken powers.
> Then I hope that they reintroduce some of the old dungeons and perform a slight rework on the dungeon queue system. I like the idea that dungeons get progressively harder. Just wish they did so in a way that meant you could climb up that ladder say once every 2 weeks rather than once every 3 months (depending on money paid etc). In this slight rework I personally would have daily and weekly dungeon buffs. They should be ludicrously difficult. Offer ludicrous rewards on completion and should offer special cosmetic bonuses. Might sound like the Heart of Fire weekly dungeon but that doesn't give ludicrous rewards and isn't ludicrously hard - it just requires a very high gear-score. And weekly bonus content should be scaling with players item level, not punishing them for it.
>
> Have my hopes been misplaced? - yes. How do I know? Read the last 3 years worth of feedback and then read the the release notes.
>
> At this point I don't even know what the developers do. Balanced is gone - but who does the class balance now? Sure that's not the only role having big boots in need of filling in the company of late.
Noworries is doing class balance afaik. Rumor has it that m16 is completely different in terms of balance.
Any truth in this rumour? Haven't seen much in the way of confirmation from developers saying that is to be the case.
That private test period is lame.
First, because they're gonna form an "echo chamber" that will provide and reinforce feedback in a direction that will be more likely to coincide with the opinion of this small group of testers rather than the majority of the player base.
How likely is such a small sample of players to fairly represent the broad spectrum of players that actually play the game? Not very.
And second, because there are actual players that will be privy to information concerning the game itself way before the vast majority of other players (and they're even excused from sharing it, since they're obliged under NDA to not do so), giving them an advantage in knowledge of gameplay mechanics that public testers most likely won't have the time to achieve, there's clearly a conflict of interests here.
Unless... well unless Cryptic is not really interested in their feedback at all. And it's just trying to scrounge free Bug Hunting + free Hype for the new mod, it would be a shady practice, but hey, if there are people who accept it, who am I to judge?
I can say the following, however: The playtesters have different interests, opinions and priorities. Some are more interested in testing new content, while others are more interested in testing changes.
We also do not agree on everything - we have different favourite builds and playstyles, and different opinion on how we would like the game to evolve. So, actually I think we represent a fairly large part of the playerbase...maybe not inexperienced newbies, but we remember what it was like to be one.
While most of us may have BiS (or close to BiS) characters, we are not just running around playing those.
As for personal advantage, yes there is some truth in that...we might be able to guess that something might increase or decrease in price, due to changes in demand, for example. I do not think playtesters are generslly abusing that inside information, however.
However, some of the playtesters might be working on guides scheduled for release once the NDA is lifted and having those guides would benefit the playerbase as a whole...save everyone some time.
Of course the devs can never get into improving those areas when the players themselves don't care. Almost no one even bothered to tell how useless the instigator improvements or the damnation ones are because they don't care.
i am already at my last laught, just look at the artifacts we got recently :
1 spinning coin - broken ( 3 tries to fix, still broken )
2 waukeen's horde - broken ( 2 tries to fix, still broken )
3 gond - broken ( 0 tries to fix )
4 journal - broken ( 0 tries to fix ? )
As for predictions? Well, there are many rumors floating about and I hope some of them are just rumors and nothing more. But only time will tell.
Now, if someone would like to inform me if it’s even possible to get involved with this super secretive M16 testing that would be cool. Thanks.
Every new Mod drops to the sound of "I bet these devs don't even play the game!!! Why don't they just talk to X, Y and Z and get them to do the testing?"
Should that now read, "Why don't they talk to X, Y and Z, and ME of course... I don't want to be kept in the dark... oh and I don't want any NDA... I want to publicly criticise every suggestion, idea and vague notion before it even gets tried!"
Of course I feel frustrated not to be part of it but I hope they figured some meaningful ways of selecting people for the beta test.
On the other hand they usually don't have the time to fix most of the bugs reported on the preview forums before releasing a new mod so I don't see how a private beta test is gonna make any difference. They will probably get less feedback but that doesn't guarantee higher quality.
> I could be completely wrong but I believe they've only invited the people who took part in the mod 9 beta test (they even have a special tag on the forums).
>
>
> Unfortunately not. People, who tend to criticize devs "products" were skipped in this test
>
>
>
>
>
> Not even a logical critique is acceptable.
Well, doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Is it not to offer bug reports and constructive criticisms so that when the content goes to a public beta phase or even live that it’s at its best?
If you want to be part of tests put in lots of hours. Lots and lots of hours...
Well, maybe some of the following would help.
Have a proven track record of providing useful feedback on Preview.
Have a track record of providing useful information on the Arc, Reddit or Steam forums.
Have a track record of creating useful guides or videos.
In general, show an interest in making the game better - and that includes pointing out flaws and issues with the current design. The playtesters are not just "yes people".
Have years of experience with the game.
Do not have problems like supporting glitches or violating the ToS.