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Changes needed for the new professions
grogthemagnif
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User
Professions used to be profitable for any player, now, not so much.
the following changes could help: (if they are implemented)
the following changes could help: (if they are implemented)
- Better Artisans - Right now, we have artisans who are either highly skilled (proiciency/Focus = 380-400) OR fast and cheap (-75% Commission and +75% Speed) - we need both
- Expand Artisans to double amount (Rank 1 - 20, Rank 2 -28, Rank 3 - 40, Rank 4 -64)
- Expand Gathering slots to 4
- Expand Crafting Slots to 5
- Allow Mass Crafting of items used to craft final products, e.g. metal ingots, place scale, lumbers, linseed, Stilled water, yarn and cloth, as potions do now over a similar time frame that now makes only 1 quantity
- Pay artisans commissions after 30 days, not immediately, except for Morale products
- Add :Legendary Artisans for those choosing to do Masterworks
- Stop 'Bait and Switch' where the artist applies for a position and then when you go to eliminate an existing player and get the prospect the one you fisrst saw has been altered negatvely.
- Vendors will pay 15% more for +1 items (40 sp for a +1 rare items that normally pays 34 sp 18 cp, etc.) as the South Seas Trading company already does.
- Stop the revolving door where a dismissed artisan becomes the 5th applicant of the day.
- Tier the Artisans - Common (White) Ranks 1-40, Rare (Blue0 Ranks 31-60, Epic (Purple) Ranks 50-70 and make the Blue Artisans better than the White and the purple artisans better than the White or Blue.
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Comments
Professions used to be simple and easy to do (15 minutes a day on a total of 8 characters), now some players have to spend 8 hours just to keep their Gold level above water.
Professions is almost a time waster, taking time away from questing. Even the old Masterworks never took 8 hours a day, day after day.
The first post was several ways to decrease the time spent on Professions so players could get back to Questing.
Professions is supposed to (just like PvP) be a side show,not the Main show.
1. I don't get AD fast enough as it is, and
2. I'm spending them to improve my character and to progress my guild.
Because of that, I use professions to generate gold, which then gets spent on other professions tasks. It slows down the pace at which I can accomplish this stuff, and it seems to me that was part of their intent, too.
I don't find myself spending anywhere near an hour a day, to say nothing of EIGHT hours per day, managing professions. Of course, my approach is to do tasks that I can let repeat and I come along and empty the box when I have time. Whatever gets made given the time I have available to empty the box is just what gets made. I suppose if I were trying to keep the box from ever getting full, then I could probably spend 8 hours a day managing professions. Personally, I can't imagine why you would do that because I can't imagine who would find any fun in that.
As for better artisans, their intent was that you'd choose different artisans depending on what you wanted to do. To my mind, this comports with the idea that they intended us to use professions to generate some gold, since there are artisans that are expressly excellent for such tasks, while other artisans are expressly excellent for high difficulty tasks. For the most part, I'm happy with the artisans that are available. My only real wish here is that Karmela was a legendary artisan with much higher focus and proficiency, a -25% or -50% commission modifier, and a +50% or +100% speed modifier. I just feel like she should be able to do whatever she does better, faster, and cheaper than anyone else can possibly produce. Otherwise, how is she a mentor to any of these artisans?
I can see why you'd want to be able to hire more artisans. We know they aren't going to make big changes to those numbers because they want you to have to depend on other characters/people, rather than being able to do it all yourself. My solution to this has been to specialize each of my characters into a different profession. I have nine characters and so I have two professions covered twice, if I so choose. So each of seven of my characters can make something that the others will need.
I don't think they'll expand the Gathering and Crafting slots because they wanted us to be limited. I can see why you'd want them expanded. For me, it's just a logistics challenge; it requires a little planning. If I want to change the things I'm crafting, then I have to pivot my Gathering tasks first. It's logical, even if a bit inconvenient.
Definitely "NO" on paying commissions every 30 days. From a player perspective, it would make it very difficult to calculate how much commission I would end up being liable for. This would be made worse given that I'm not always doing the same things for 30 days. From a programming perspective, it's way too much overhead. If I were a developer on this team, I would definitely be against this idea. It's just too fraught and requires (among other things) giving the players a way to track how much they currently owe. On top of that, players will then request an in-game calculator to be able to plan "If I have my artisans do these tasks, then how much will that be?" Ugh. No. That would be a nightmare. This current system (and a good portion of the game otherwise) is already laden with bugs. This would be make that So. Much. Worse!
It would be nice to have artisans that give a better chance of success for masterwork. I would like that a lot. Obviously, they want us to have the failure rates we currently face because, if they did not, they could simple adjust the difficulty of the recipes. I'd rather have them do that than add legendary artisans. Plus, Karmela is supposed to be the apex of what an artisan can be. If legendary artisans come along, then what happens with her? We can't fire her and I doubt they'd give us more slots to hire more artisans.
Your original #8 and #10, and your #8 from your second post, are probably all bugs. Certainly the two #8's are bugs.
As for #11, this is already mostly true. Epic artisans tend to have better proficiency and/or focus values than rare, which are better than common. Obviously, sometimes one is worse than you can get in a lower tier artisan, but that's usually made up for with a much better value in the other stat.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. The long and short of my opinion on your ideas is: Not Signed.
It changes every time when you leave the application area and then go back to it (and yes, includes after acceptance).
Since the overhaul, I tried to do the new way of working professions (got one alt up to Workshop level 3). Got so disenchanted and just bored by all the time needed to learn and invest in the new system that I have abandoned it completely.
Lesson learned is - be careful what you wish for.
The good old days are over when I used to make a fair living crafting many, many pairs of pants.
I would also like to have when looking at something to create, each item needed to make that creation, show (at least) the level needed to gather or make and possibly which profession to look under, although it would really, really be nice to have that AND the ability to click on what you need and it takes you to it, but with adventuring being done separately I don't expect this is too easy, so the first part is better than nothing, it's a pain in the a** to go back and forth when you r character is low level but the profession is higher than adventuring and your trying to figure out what you can make. It would also be helpful to have the ingredients lists have items highlighted if you are capable of making/gathering it based on your level AND greyed out if not able to yet
Lastly, for newer profession characters, the amount of experience you will get if the item you created or gather goes through, to help make a decision if it's worth making based on the experience points it will give you to be able to rank your given activity up.
> Lastly, for newer profession characters, the amount of experience you will get if the item you created or gather goes through, to help make a decision if it's worth making based on the experience points it will give you to be able to rank your given activity up.
They have stated experience is determined on-the-fly, which is why it isn't listed with the task. Having said that, I've done numerous Brass Ring tasks on different characters with a variety of artisans, tools, supplements, and ingredients ( normal and +1), receiving both normal and +1 results. Yet I can't remember getting anything other than 1,109 experience.
What I can tell you, the higher level a task is, the higher the experience reward will be. If you're leveling a lower level artisan, give them the best tool possible and have them perform the highest task with a 100% chance of success. And make sure that is a true 100%, your proficiency value should be above the maximum of the task.
Item types being used or disassembled would have to fall within the skill limits of the proper crafting tree. ie. To dissasemble an armor piece you have to have the proper score within Armoring Class. The better the gear, the greater the returns as well as the rate of failure.
Recovered "materials" are then useable with the proper class tree to make new stuff or to modify others. The items recovered would be random with both poor or moderate or great returns. Ie. Dissasembly of a +1 Weapon with 1 slot; Chance to recover some of the metals, leathers, and other items used to make it returned as theier basic and +1 versions of the materials. It stands as logical that the more rare items would have a poor chance of recovery.
This would, of course, increase the consumption of gold and in some elevated cases Astral Diamonds.
Adding an ability to "refine" basic items through these processes like; add an enchantment slot to an unslotted item, or increase the base item's quality to it's +1 version through the Crafting System... With some difficulties... Failure that returns materals or scrap or just fully wasted.
Why not a "Training" system for the workers with limits based on the quality system? White, green, blue, blah and so on. Think of it like the Cubes we use on our weapon's abilities(?)... the use of the cube as a currency to open the ability and their use to boost the effectiveness as a percentage. If the roll fails, no increase, no loss. In this sort of manner, we could increase the "worker's" ability scores at a cost. BUT, there has to be a trade off in some form or another. Ie, End up with a great score in field X but lose some in speed or increase the cost to perform function, or lose some of the other trait or... all the above. I could end up with a maxed focus but with a 200% cost, -50% speed, and a low (brain HAMSTER) the other measure of success.
Side note: VIP should be considered with the crafting system. Adding one or two more gathering and/or working slots according to VIP level and status. (Pay to win? Maybe. But it gives more reasons to have and maintain VIP)
Second top button on the left - looks like a magnifying glass/
> Second top button on the left - looks like a magnifying glass/
On the vendors not the recipes.
I guess you've never heard of 'WD-40', the Water Displacement formula for the US Space program. The team FAILED 39 times in a row before they got it right. Now it's one of the TWO essential tool in a tool box - the other is Duct Tape.
"if it moves and it shouldn't - use Duct Tape, if it doesn't move and it should - use WD-40."
Example: the Green (uncommon) items that pay 10 Silvers, 13 coppers all the way up to level 70.
Example: the Blue (Rare) items that are paid 34 Silvers, 18 Coppers from Rank 18 to Rank 70.
Example: White (Common) items go up every single level all the way to level 70.
The Players are price controlled, but the artisans get paid more for more for higher level work and the players don't.
2. I'm not sure doubling the number is needed, but even at rank 4, things feel a bit too lean.
3. Meh. It's part of the time gating so that players don't get everything all at once.
4. Meh. See above.
5. Potions can be brewed in one big batch, then divided into multiple containers. You can't just make one big ingot and then subdivide it as easily... (see also: part of the time gating in #3 & 4)
6. Why 30 days? That's just asking for abuse from bots who craft for 29 days, mail everything out, delete, and restart.
7. Well, it'd definitely be something to chase in a lockbox, I guess.
8. Yeah, this one is annoying. Had it happen with the -75% Jeweler.
9. +1 items offer 10% more stats, so 10% increase in price would be nice to see, yes.
10. Not just having the dismisssed artisan re-apply, but re-apply *multiple times* on the same day. (No, Mintmountain, you ain't getting a job here!)
11. Not sure I follow you here.... I think the range of values on the rarer artisans is opened up a bit (i.e. commission, speed), so instead of +75% speed on a white artisan, you can get+125% on a purple artisan. I do agree, though, that there should be more benefit to having a purple artisan. Too many have outrageous commission modifiers, as if that is supposed to counterbalance their higher skills. If they're epic, shouldn't their rarity alone be the counterbalance? I shouldn't be looking at an epic artisan and saying, "yeah, that's nice, but this white one is WAY better".
One of my own to add - allow players to select what professions their workshop is hiring for. If I *really* need a better blacksmith, that's all I want to be seeing. If I don't do tailoring, I don't want tailors wasting my time. Even if it could be limited to some degree (say, a minimum of 3 professions must be selected), it would be an improvement. I have one MW toon, and one each for the individual professions as feeders / goldmakers. Even if I could limit it to the main profession, gathering, and an alternate profession, it'd make things far better. I'd even accept fewer applicants if they were for areas I wanted them to be in.
2. It will be enough. plus it gives you room to 'try out' new prospects to see if they make you money or not.
3. Might be right.
4. See #3
5. Potions can, but we also need it for leathers, Lumber, and anything else that's gathered in 12s. for Mass Processing to stop clogging up the Delivery Box.
6. Most people (irl) don't get paid immediately. This allows the Boss (Player Character) sell the stuff and distribute part and only part, of the profit to the Artisans and keeps the rest as profit.
7. The new lockbox has Legendary tools, why not Legendary Artisans in the next lockbox.
8. Definitely a Bug.
9. South Seas Trading pays 16 2/3% more for +1 Goods, but a 40% discount for Adamantine tools. (based on the old value onf 5000 cost vs 3000 sale price.)
10. Haven't had that happen to me, can't deny it could happen.
11. It keeps the Whites for low level Gold making projects, TheBlues wouldn't start so low and could be used for midrange projects and gathering and the Purples could start mostly higher than Blues and be used for High end projects and eventually the Orange Artisans could be used for Master Works Starting at 68 or higher.
The big problem is we were so used to Purple was better than Blue and Blue was better than White and that just isn't in this system of professions. It should be.