K Team Optimal Compositions: "Tanks FTW"

dread4moor · January 2019

Applies only to harder, high 1-death probability dungeons (FBI, mSP, CR...).

As we all know, in KTeam, DPS takes a back seat to survivability.
Simply no reason to bring multiple buffs and DPSers into a potential "one-hit" K team like FBI.

My crew are having great success w the "overtank" approach.

1) OP- Protection
2) GF- Tactician (running KV)
3) OP- Devotion
4) DPS- any ... possibly GF Conqueror for tanky DPS
5) DC- AC

All playing full mitigation/defense/healing (Astral Shield, Divine Protector, Knight's Valor, healing word/Have Faith, Blessing of Battle, Anointed Armor, Divine Armor, etc).

Takes a bit longer to finish, but having much lower fail rates (~ 2 tries/win so far) with this combo.

What other compositions are working for you?

callumf · January 2019

Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

dupeks · January 2019

callumf#9018 said:
Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

They run with a team that minds their footwork. But yes, it's a risky business that.

eion311 · January 2019

callumf#9018 said:
Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

I have high action point gain/recovery, couple that with Steel Defense, know when to use your shield, lets me be immune to dmg most of the hill climb when things are going down.

unthoughtknown · January 2019

No TR.

callumf · January 2019

eion311 said:

callumf#9018 said:
Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?
I have high action point gain/recovery, couple that with Steel Defense, know when to use your shield, lets me be immune to dmg most of the hill climb when things are going down.

Respect to you mate. And wow I have to say I am impressed - as Dupeks says above, gotta run a great team to stop that GF getting splatted. Excellent play

dragonlorddrm · January 2019

During my successful FBI K-Team run with the "Took" we actually went in with two Oathbound Paladin Protectors plus the Guardian Fighter for the triple tank action.

I was strategically casting Absolution to add extra shielding to everyone in the party and we used alternating paladin bubbles to great effect particularly when fighting against the Dragon Turtle.

dread4moor · January 2019

callumf#9018 said:
Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

Good question. A few years ago, before invention of the wheel, when GF Protectors were still a thing I wrote a entire guide on shield use that explains this.

[R.I.P. Bowser IV "Spiked Turtle". You are missed.]

Steel Defense with high AP recovery, good timing of daily
Teammates who are not COLOR BLIND (yes, looking at you, GWFs)
High defense
high stamina ("Permashield" was glorious in it's day, but no longer)
Strafe with shield up at all times (side to side motion)
constant tab-marking
keep shield up
stay facing your party (to keep them in CA).
Stamina low? shield slam, shield bash or Enforced Threat.
Strafe out of red.

Do all of those things and KV will keep your party alive without killing your GF.

dread4moor · January 2019

dragonlorddrm said:
During my successful FBI K-Team run with the "Took" we actually went in with two Oathbound Paladin Protectors plus the Guardian Fighter for the triple tank action.

I was strategically casting Absolution to add extra shielding to everyone in the party and we used alternating paladin bubbles to great effect particularly when fighting against the Dragon Turtle.

Thanks, DragonLord ("DL").

Public praise and "shout-out" to The DragonLord ("DL").
DL is a long-time veteran of NW.
I met him years ago on his main (a face-melting GWF). But turns out his alts, including his OP, are solid. Great player, DL.

True, DL, the MOST extreme application of "3 Tanks FTW" is exactly as DL describes:
2x OP Prot, 1x GF Tact.

I said as much on an OP forum last week.
But you would not believe how much hateful negation I received proposing this on an OP forum! Not sure why.
Not an expert in OPs so I gave no argument.
Therefore, went with the 1 Prot 1 Devo 1 Tactician proposal.

Now, I am empowered to say my original thought. I agree with DL:

1 Prot, 1 Devo is fine for "hard" K Team.
2 Prots are better for "hard" K Team.

OPs out there... speak up and explain why we are right or wrong.

dread4moor · January 2019

unthoughtknown said:
No TR.

I am very glad you spoke up, @unthoughtknown .
My friends and I had a long discord chat about TRs in this "3 Tanks FTW" K Team theory.

The most common criticism: What about TRs and SWs?

In the recent Meta, TRs and (to a lesser degree) SWs seem to play second-fiddle.
I agree with you. This is is unfair.

But I would argue that, in the narrow thesis of this thread, TRs are MORE desirable then SWs.

SWs have highest LFG demand for the Temp build's excellent buffing potential.
Buff and DPS builds are (out of Meta-norm) LOW priority for K Team compositions.
Buff is even less important then DPS build in K Team.

Therefore, for the sole DPS slot in our proposed "3 Tanks FTW" composition...
... a TR is just as (if not more) desirable then a SW.

@unthoughtknown , you cannot say that about any other LFG situation, can you?

unthoughtknown · January 2019

@dread4moor thanks for the feedback. I guess my comment was a little tongue in cheek as on main PVE channels I've seen things like LFM - DC, OP, GWF, SW, CW, HR

So my feedback was more about TR in PVE then K team specifically.

hustin1 · January 2019

Makes me tempted to switch my HR main back into turtle-shell maximum survivability mode and try to get in a group. I think her damage resistance climbs past 130% in that mode.

schietindebux · February 2019

Hm, thanks for the threat. It indicates how unthought and unbalanced parts of this game still are... 3 tanks, one DC (another tank) and a GWF last tank
PS : my warlock can switch into tank pvp mode as well and can show up with more HP etc than most PVE tanks show up with in KT groups, magic lords surcoat is awesome. Anyone run Ring of inpenetrability in KT, didn't try yet.

dread4moor · February 2019

schietindebux said:
Hm, thanks for the threat. It indicates how unthought and unbalanced parts of this game still are... 3 tanks, one DC (another tank) and a GWF last tank

PS : my warlock can switch into tank pvp mode as well and can show up with more HP etc than most PVE tanks show up with in KT groups, magic lords surcoat is awesome. Anyone run Ring of inpenetrability in KT, didn't try yet.

I completely agree with your concern, @schietindebux .
All my toons are support: GF tact (previously protector lol), DC, MoF...
I am no stranger to being left out of the Optimal party.

But this is a "guide" or "goal" (super tanky KTeam) not a hard fast rule.
That last slot could be a SW-Temp , HR buffer or MoF just as easily as a DPS.

In fact, my post said 'DPS- any".

But I feel your frustration. As a GF tank purist, I had my job stolen by OPs years ago lol.

dread4moor · February 2019

hustin1 said:
Makes me tempted to switch my HR main back into turtle-shell maximum survivability mode and try to get in a group. I think her damage resistance climbs past 130% in that mode.

I think a HR could fill that 5th slot in either your "tanky HR" or HR=DPS mode just fine.
This was not intended to exclude any particular class.
Just wanted to stimulate discussion on how we all can minimize KTeam wipes... which are VERY frustrating.

pitmonster · February 2019

Not speaking of the optimal class but for a SW in K-Team, what is better: Damnation as it has better self preservation or Temptation for group healing and group buffs? I lean toward Damnation as I don't want to be "that guy" that dies and runs out the clock. I'm assuming Spark for both but that might be a wrong assumption.

Thoughts?

dread4moor · February 2019

pitmonster#5684 said:
Not speaking of the optimal class but for a SW in K-Team, what is better: Damnation as it has better self preservation or Temptation for group healing and group buffs? I lean toward Damnation as I don't want to be "that guy" that dies and runs out the clock. I'm assuming Spark for both but that might be a wrong assumption.

Thoughts?

We've run several "3T-FTW" Kteams with a SW in the 5th slot and they did fine.
Whichever one is best for whole-party survivability. Temp I think.

I don't play SW @pitmonster#5684 , but as a GF and DC I felt much sturdier with a Temp in the 5th slot.
Temp seems to fit the immortality motif of this KTeam theory.
iirc, we ran OP-Prot, GF-tact(KV), OP-Devo, DCAC, SW-Temp with no wipes on etos and only 1 or 2 wipes on FBI and mSP.
I will defer to the SW experts in the forum.

edit: no wipes on etos Kteam w SW temp

pitmonster · February 2019

dread4moor said:

We've run several "3T-FTW" Kteams with a SW in the 5th slot and they did fine.
Whichever one is best for whole-party survivability. Temp I think.

I don't play SW @pitmonster#5684 , but as a GF and DC I felt much sturdier with a Temp in the 5th slot.
Temp seems to fit the immortality motif of this KTeam theory.
iirc, we ran OP-Prot, GF-tact(KV), OP-Devo, DCAC, SW-Temp with no wipes on etos and only 1 or 2 wipes on FBI and mSP.
I will defer to the SW experts in the forum.

edit: no wipes on etos Kteam w SW temp

Thanks for the feedback.

feanor70118 · February 2019

While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

chemjeff · February 2019

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.

leonidrex · February 2019

chemjeff said:

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.

most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps

, same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.

dread4moor · February 2019

> @chemjeff said:
> While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?
>
>
>
> exactly. I love my GWF but >he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.

No argument from me about that. Factual.
ITT, just coming up with objectively most successful compositions. No judgements of fairness or right/wrong intended.

But if we started another thread on DPS woes, my response would be "market economics". Supply and demand.
We simply have waaaay too many DPS mains for a game designed to be 60% support class.

pitmonster · February 2019

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

90% of the games content is geared towards DPS and allowing DPS toons to get through content almost 2x as fast. Seems kinda odd to complain about that 10% content not geared toward DPS. Let the support toons have their 10%, there are players that actually enjoy playing support, healers, and tanks.

dread4moor · February 2019

leonidrex said:

chemjeff said:

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.

@leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

Excuse my OP ignorance.
I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
I do not understand something you said:
You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
I am always open to new synergies.
Please explain that relationship.

leonidrex · February 2019

dread4moor said:

leonidrex said:

chemjeff said:

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
@leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

Excuse my OP ignorance.
I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
I do not understand something you said:
You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
I am always open to new synergies.
Please explain that relationship.

hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.

dread4moor · February 2019

leonidrex said:

dread4moor said:

leonidrex said:

chemjeff said:

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
@leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

Excuse my OP ignorance.
I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
I do not understand something you said:
You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
I am always open to new synergies.
Please explain that relationship.
hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.

Best OP power practical explanation I have heard in a long time.
You may have stolen my job, but you just won my respect. Cheers.

pitmonster · February 2019

leonidrex said:

hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.

Someone told me that Relentless Avenger procs AP, which is not listed as one of its attributes. I have switched to that on my OP Dev and it really does keep my AP pot filled and keeps Shield of Faith up 100%. Depends on how strong your party is, if they are strong then knocking enemies back irritates the melee DPS'ers. But under Devotion, you can target a allies and that helps when someone is in trouble.

leonidrex · February 2019

@pitmonster#5684 RA gives AP for each target hit, and since it can hit allies as devo its very easy to get 1/4 - 1/3 ap bar per cast.

dread4moor · February 2019

leonidrex said:
@pitmonster#5684 RA gives AP for each target hit, and since it can hit allies as devo its very easy to get 1/4 - 1/3 ap bar per cast.

Interesting. That puts GF Tactician's Martial Mastery to shame.

Still, a Prot, Devo, Tactician, ACDC, DPS combination will be busting one hell of alot of dailies in K Team.

The resultant spam of AA, Divine Armor and/or HG makes for a very cozy KTeam run.

feanor70118 · February 2019

pitmonster#5684 said:

feanor70118 said:
While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

90% of the games content is geared towards DPS and allowing DPS toons to get through content almost 2x as fast. Seems kinda odd to complain about that 10% content not geared toward DPS. Let the support toons have their 10%, there are players that actually enjoy playing support, healers, and tanks.

No one is trying to take your game away from you. Practically ALL the content at RAQ level or above requires more than two support classes (at minimum entry IL) so it's a lot more than 10% of the game. It's all of the game as far as high-level enchantment and gear upgrades or decent loot.

And there's no reason that a support class should have to be over-represented in any of it.

kharkov58 · February 2019

I have seen Relentless Avenger give me over 2/3 of my AP back in a single hit. Used it on the first mob on the bridge in CN.

No one is forcing anyone to take any support classes.

K Team Optimal Compositions: "Tanks FTW"

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