Leechers in CTA

vigor · January 2019

Can you just ban them all? I realize they are your customers and you would make a lot of people angry when people are already angry. They made my experience, which was already bad, far worse and they did it to an awful lot of other people too.

At very least, can we all agree it is a bad idea to let level 5 characters into an event that gives good rewards?

deterrant · January 2019

I can see your point,

BUT you can easily Private Q CTAs, LFG them or go in with your friends, guildies or alliance members , theres, what, 5 other options to do them besides PUGing them. PUGing content in this game is usually very bad.

The Cryptic implementation of scaling is awful and PUGs are bad, most of the time, depending on the content and the content mixes the low/high level toons too heavily in events when PUGing.

Not very good for anyone.

If they were bots, just report and thats that, nothing more you can do.

pitmonster · January 2019

deterrant#6687 said:
I can see your point,

BUT you can easily Private Q CTAs, LFG them or go in with your friends, guildies or alliance members , theres, what, 5 other options to do them besides PUGing them. PUGing content in this game is usually very bad.

The Cryptic implementation of scaling is awful and PUGs are bad, most of the time, depending on the content and the content mixes the low/high level toons too heavily in events when PUGing.

Not very good for anyone.

If they were bots, just report and thats that, nothing more you can do.

Trying to group together 4 other players for an event like this is pretty unrealistic. Heck, its hard to get a group together at the same time to do any kinds of runs, esp. on your schedule.

baronstragen · January 2019

I see a pretty simple solution to this. Should be like mauraders, you don't do any damage (0), you get 0 rewards and credit.

jganth · January 2019

Why is the chest in the same place where the event starts? Doing ZERO and taking something for nothing is 'exploit' by definition. Can these players be banned?

pitmonster · January 2019

jganth said:
Why is the chest in the same place where the event starts? Doing ZERO and taking something for nothing is 'exploit' by definition. Can these players be banned?

That is actually a good idea. Make the chest on the other side of the content. Also require X amount of damage/healing/taking damage in relation to your level.

vendood · January 2019

An issue with the "just don't PUG it" or "ignore it, don't whine" suggestions arises from the fact that the CTA has to be run 60-120 times or more in order to get the decent rewards. It's not something you are going to put a team together for … 120 times.

Top that off with the annoyance that Cryptic managed to break it badly (and not for the "just a few" people they tried to pass it off as in the stream), and then not-fix it, and not-fix it again, and then sorta-fix-it. So really you are doing it more like 120 times just to get three tokens. Which makes the final total (for mount or weapons) somewhere in the 200-1000 run range. (Yes, I'm assuming future versions will be just as broken until proven otherwise)

At that point, anything that makes the runs longer/more aggravating should be addressed. And Cryptic really needs to do something significant about the event, rather than just brush the poor coding under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen, as they too frequently do.

jganth · January 2019

I think that comment (Can you just ban them) is in reflection of previous actions by Cryptic in other similar circumstances where an exploit was acted and enforced on.

Just set the tone once and be CONSISTENT is all were asking.

tagnusironsord · January 2019

baronstragen said:
I see a pretty simple solution to this. Should be like mauraders, you don't do any damage (0), you get 0 rewards and credit.

No score, no rewards. Sounds perfect to me, that's what I was going to suggest.

pitmonster#5684 said:

jganth said:
Why is the chest in the same place where the event starts? Doing ZERO and taking something for nothing is 'exploit' by definition. Can these players be banned?
That is actually a good idea. Make the chest on the other side of the content. Also require X amount of damage/healing/taking damage in relation to your level.

Also a good idea.

In addition, I'd suggest losing the 'safe spawn point' and drop everyone into the actual skirmish area. Oh, and have (some of) the monster paths set to go near there, so if someone joins and AFKs they'll get attacked and can't just stand there in safety.

Unknown · January 2019

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hustin1 · January 2019

I've seen high-IL level 70's AFK the event and even act smug and snarky when called out on it.

dionchi · January 2019

jganth said:
Why is the chest in the same place where the event starts? Doing ZERO and taking something for nothing is 'exploit' by definition. Can these players be banned?

Agree the assembly point when entering a CTA should be different from the place where the end game award chest is, actually I'd like to see the final boss drop the end game chest when it's defeated instead of the end game chest being at a predetermined location.

Also Zero damage during the event equals Zero reward also sounds good in theory, but I am concerned about those who take longer to connect when there are several heavy hitters in a party that could terminate the event before some players even have a chance to fully connect, giving them a Zero score through no fault of their own... Like I said good in theory, but flawed in practicality.

tagnusironsord said:
-snip-
Also a good idea.

In addition, I'd suggest losing the 'safe spawn point' and drop everyone into the actual skirmish area. Oh, and have (some of) the monster paths set to go near there, so if someone joins and AFKs they'll get attacked and can't just stand there in safety.

To me this suggestion sounds a bit more practical... however a "safe spawning point" is probably still needed for players who are defeated during an event and need a safe place to resurrect and maybe heal before getting back into the fray.

I do think a better location for a safe spawning point would be better closer to the actual conflict map, (possibly in different "zones" if necessary) where more players can easily see what’ going on rather than far removed from the conflict map during a CTA.

But that’s just my 2¢

jelara1 · January 2019

I agree with 0 or scaled reward based on participation according to your level. But I would not suggest a ban because sometimes unanticipated things happen in RL and this is still a game. The majority of leeching was probably done intentionally, but there were very likely exceptions. 0 reward should be enough of a deterrent.

I ran this with a lot of chars (I like my alts, I actually play my alts through a lot of content), and I tried my best regardless of level or gear. So there were a few hundred runs for me. But one of them I had a network issue on my end as I entered zone (so no idea what happened) and another I was on a low level char, I was participating but died in the second wave, released myself to campfire and just then an important phone call I had been waiting for came in. So there I am at the campfire for half the run. Run was over within 30 seconds and someone called me out for leeching because they saw me standing at the campfire with my level 18 character, maybe even reported me. One run out of hundreds, because RL happens.

chemjeff · February 2019

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that this is the only CTA in which the start point and end point are in the same location. All of the others, they are not.

greywynd · February 2019

Gate Crashers the chests are where the party enters the courtyard.

Unknown · February 2019

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benyr · February 2019

As i mentioned in a previous post a precident has now been set where the devs can roll back rewards post event. After the hunt exploit they removed AD and ill gotten games from accounts, after CTA they awarded tokens to those that had earnt them but not recieved them.
So as a solution to leechers, how about everytime anyone encounters one they report them. Post event the the devs can look at these and if there is any account on there consistently take a look to see if they even moved or just sat there, if the latter just remove all the rewards they got and AD they made. That way anyone who went afk as a one off, or was too low level to kill anything but was running around trying to find something to kill would be fine.

hustin1 · February 2019

I've taken to inspecting people who act in a really callous, condescending manner toward other players (whether we're talking about CTA afk'ers, or players who sneak in and steal quest objectives from players who are clearly fighting for them, etc. etc.) In five years I think I've got a solid theory as to what kind of people these are, what attracts them to the game, and why they behave in such a maladjusted fashion as opposed to the majority of other players. I've run into a LOT of them over the years and they all seem to have certain characteristics in common.

While I think that having the GM's and/or devs take action in cases like a CTA is appropriate, my strong opinion is that there is a deeper cultural problem at work and I think a lot of players know exactly what I'm talking about.

callumf · February 2019

benyr said:
So as a solution to leechers, how about everytime anyone encounters one they report them. Post event the the devs can look at these and if there is any account on there consistently take a look to see if they even moved or just sat there, if the latter just remove all the rewards they got and AD they made. That way anyone who went afk as a one off, or was too low level to kill anything but was running around trying to find something to kill would be fine.

I would rather see the devs developing new content than policing what is frankly pretty much a non-problem.

Non-problem you say? These afk leechers made my life a misery!

I mean really? A misery? Your life?

Yeah the afkers pissed me off as well, but mostly it only extended each run from 1 minute to 2 minutes - lets all keep smiling

silverkelt · February 2019

I dont see why forcing a measly score of either 1k damage done, taken or 1 k healing would require much of a effort, it at least forced afkers outside of the zone.

At that rate.. even low levels, can score that much .

Im not going to call for bans.. that is a bit over the top.. I discussed this already and have had a couple conversations.. the reasoning behind some people doing it was simple.. though I disagree with it, as it makes players life miserable not the companies.. but some thought was the following:

Since the company screwed up my tokens, I will not do it anymore, I will queue into it, until i get my tokens but not participate.

Again.. I disagree with that surmise.. but I sort of understand it, since I had my own frustrations.

vendood · February 2019

Agreed that it's not a major problem that needs to be addressed. Disagree with the people who frequently exaggerate that it's a 1-2 minute run. I ran about 200 CTAs (all pug) and not one of them took less than 3 minutes. I call BS on anyone saying that each wave was done and the next wave spawned in @12 seconds. Given the time it takes to enter, zone, run to fires, complete 4 waves, run back to spawn, get reward, zone out... 1 minute? Please! Your points lose credibility if you need to exaggerate them.

The AFKers may well only extend the match from 3 minutes to 4+. Not a big deal... well, not until you recall you'll be doing over 120 runs and that extra minute may well add up to 2 hours. The significant issue is that Cryptic is running these events to encourage participation, boost numbers, expose people to content they might not otherwise see, gain some nice rewards, and otherwise promote interest in the game.

Buggy code, rewards that don't work, massive re-running of trivial content, and frequent exposure to people who make it clear that the best way to win is 'not to play'... all these things work directly against the entire point of having the event at all. They make Neverwinter look bad, not 'more interesting'. AFKers are just one part of the problem. Yes, we will certainly succeed whether they are there or not. No, it doesn't look good to have every 3rd CTA run have 1-2 AFKers, and I expect this to only get worse as the event goes on and people lose the drive to actively participate.

callumf · February 2019

vendood said:
I call BS on anyone saying that each wave was done and the next wave spawned in @12 seconds. Given the time it takes to enter, zone, run to fires, complete 4 waves, run back to spawn, get reward, zone out... 1 minute? Please! Your points lose credibility if you need to exaggerate them.

My record, for the record, was 47 seconds, most were between 1 and 1 minute 30 seconds and not one over 3 minutes amigo.

I ran 99 for the record all together. All pugged.

But yes, I concede that the afkers were damn annoying and something needs to be done!

plasticbat · February 2019

I would say it does not take long. My character is strong enough and yet more than once, I only managed to kill couple and the boss already showed up and was killed before I got any closer. In addition, for those who play a lot, they can kill the mob at the moment they spawn. For example, my SW killed two groups of mob at two different spawn points at the same time. The pillar of power I left behind to kill the last mob also killed the next mob when my SW was in another spot to one shot another group.

hustin1 · February 2019

I didn't count how many I pugged, but I'd estimate somewhere between 150 and 200. In my experience the major factor in the time required was the level of the participants (not Item Level, but actual level). The level-scaling mechanism is far from perfect and low-level players were really struggling. This became exponentially worse when a well-geared level 70 was just hanging out behind the walls to boot. I had to spend a great deal of time running around helping one low-level player after another and it would have gone a LOT faster if said other well-geared player was participating.

I spent a lot of time inspecting the AFK'ers and looking into their guilds. Suffice to say I was not surprised at what I saw.

vendood · February 2019

callumf#9018 said:

vendood said:
I call BS on anyone saying that each wave was done and the next wave spawned in @12 seconds. Given the time it takes to enter, zone, run to fires, complete 4 waves, run back to spawn, get reward, zone out... 1 minute? Please! Your points lose credibility if you need to exaggerate them.
My record, for the record, was 47 seconds, most were between 1 and 1 minute 30 seconds and not one over 3 minutes amigo.

I ran 99 for the record all together. All pugged.

But yes, I concede that the afkers were damn annoying and something needs to be done!

47 seconds from pressing K in PE (or wherever you start) to join the queue, through claiming the reward, and then zoning back to your start zone, ready to press K to start the next one? (Because that's what makes up an actual run cycle) I won't say 'impossible' but I will say "video or it never happened".

I'm fine with it if you can do it that fast, only reason I point it out is because I suspect Cryptic devs will point at messages like that and say "See look it only takes people a minute, maybe a minute and half, so 10 runs per token is just fine!". Maybe that is your experience, but it sure ain't mine.

Unknown · February 2019

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wintersmoke · February 2019

greywynd said:
Gate Crashers the chests are where the party enters the courtyard.

But not the spawn point...

dionchi · February 2019

jelara1 said:
I agree with 0 or scaled reward based on participation according to your level. But I would not suggest a ban because sometimes unanticipated things happen in RL and this is still a game. The majority of leeching was probably done intentionally, but there were very likely exceptions. 0 reward should be enough of a deterrent.

I ran this with a lot of chars (I like my alts, I actually play my alts through a lot of content), and I tried my best regardless of level or gear. So there were a few hundred runs for me. But one of them I had a network issue on my end as I entered zone (so no idea what happened) and another I was on a low level char, I was participating but died in the second wave, released myself to campfire and just then an important phone call I had been waiting for came in. So there I am at the campfire for half the run. Run was over within 30 seconds and someone called me out for leeching because they saw me standing at the campfire with my level 18 character, maybe even reported me. One run out of hundreds, because RL happens.

Scaled rewards based on damage done or character level seems to be to be biased to higher level players as opposed to lower level players who as it usually happens have to work twice as hard just to get close to doing the same level damage as higher level players, some of whom can defeat mobs with just one shot.

So why not reward lower level, less powerful players twice what higher level more powerful players get since the run is more difficult for lower level players?.

Actually I'm being facetious, I think when anyone starts suggesting one type of player be rewarded more than another group of players those are usually posted from the perspective of the players thinking they deserve more because of their individual effort instead of looking at the event as a party function where theoretically every player - regardless of their character level attributes - works to the best of their ability to accomplish a common task (disregarding the exploiters of course)...

If a person get's reported for what some may consider inappropriate behavior, that in itself does not indicate that player is attempting to exploit the group effort or scam the event... However that being said, the same character being reported numerous times, during several events, for the same kind of behavior would seem to indicate some intent at scamming, at least in my opinion.

I am still of the opinion that the best way to handle players some perceive as exploiters is to report them and hopefully after enough times of the same character, doing the same kinds of things in multiple instances being reported, the game GM or whoever will be able to do something about it or at least look into it. As I see it the most players in Neverwinter should be is the eyes and ears for the PTB (powers that be) in Neverwinter, not the judge and jury…

But then that’s just my 2¢

Oh and for those who like to point out how easy some runs are for their characters, it just might be me but somehow I think that might be impetus for someone at Neverwinter to suggest player characters once again need to be nerfed - or some content made harder... so I usually try to avoid anything like that.

greywynd · February 2019

Not sure I agree with a threshold for "taking damage". Good players can avoid a lot of damage, on the one hand, and skirmishes like Storm Front inflicts damage just by being in the instance on the other.

dionchi · February 2019

There is a content with: "You must gather your party before proceeding" gate before the final boss battle, why can't there be more than one such "gate" (multiples even) between the assembly point and the final battle, with mob confrontations after the intermediate gates open?

This would immediately address complaints by some who have said other players are running off and leaving them as well as their character not being able to participate because everything is killed before they even get to a confrontation area.

It would also have the effect of modifying some player behavior that leads to those complaints.

In addition it would seem to address some of the complaints against AFK'ers as those who would normally go AFK would at least have to make it to an intermediate gate before the party proceeds... and their failing to do so within a prescribed (programmed) time period, would automatically remove them from the instance.

**Safe guard: if the slower player(s) take damage from mobs speed runners leave behind, the timer on intermediate gates reset to zero. This will avoid some players abandoning their party, running past mobs and leaving them for slower players to deal with.

Not being a programmer I'm guessing the programming modification wouldn't be that difficult, just copy the code from the final battle gate (or other content) and place them at random locations along the path... for the most part.

As for actual "leechers", those players who appear to intentionally avoid participating to attempt to just skate through and claim their reward without actually contributing anything...

They will also have to be at intermediate gates for them to open and since the mobs are going to attack everyone who comes through those gates, they will be forced to expend at least some effort to defend themselves and confront opponents.

Anyhow, just a thought.

callumf · February 2019

vendood said:

callumf#9018 said:

vendood said:
I call BS on anyone saying that each wave was done and the next wave spawned in @12 seconds. Given the time it takes to enter, zone, run to fires, complete 4 waves, run back to spawn, get reward, zone out... 1 minute? Please! Your points lose credibility if you need to exaggerate them.
My record, for the record, was 47 seconds, most were between 1 and 1 minute 30 seconds and not one over 3 minutes amigo.

I ran 99 for the record all together. All pugged.

But yes, I concede that the afkers were damn annoying and something needs to be done!

47 seconds from pressing K in PE (or wherever you start) to join the queue, through claiming the reward, and then zoning back to your start zone, ready to press K to start the next one? (Because that's what makes up an actual run cycle) I won't say 'impossible' but I will say "video or it never happened".

I'm fine with it if you can do it that fast, only reason I point it out is because I suspect Cryptic devs will point at messages like that and say "See look it only takes people a minute, maybe a minute and half, so 10 runs per token is just fine!". Maybe that is your experience, but it sure ain't mine.

I see your point - 47 seconds from spawning in to completing the skirmish.

ACTUAL time taken from start to finish - probably record being 2 minutes I guess shortest, 2 mins 30 seconds on avaerage?

It probably took around 20 mins to do all 10 from memory

Leechers in CTA

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