Link to CW MOD 15 Guide

sixguns1
sixguns1 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
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  • xcessiveforce40
    xcessiveforce40 Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    Thanks for posting this!
    Founder: Xcessiveforce GF, Xcessiveheals DC, XcessiveRange HR, XcessiveArcana CW, XcessiveStab TR
  • barsidious#9558
    barsidious#9558 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Great guide! Thanks for the link.
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    this pretty great work was created by @trzebiat#2067

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    Very nice. Gave me some ideas for changing my rotation I hadn't considered. Think I'll dust off my CW :)
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Took a look at this. Gave me some ideas on my CW.
  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    After further review a few things I would consider changing.

    For heroic feat remove one point from Blighting Power and place it into Arcane Enhancement for single target rotation. The extra damage to the 3 Arcane powers really help out with this minor change.

    As for artifacts that are there simply for stats I recommend going with the Heart of the Black and Blue dragon for Recovery over other artifacts. If you plan to use the black dragon as your main over others, than I recommend adding the Black Ice Beholder artifact for more recovery and armor pen.

    As for enchantments on companions - if you have both grave strikers and use the Restoration/Medic Elec. Neck I recommend Gigantics in 3-4 of the five slots. Than silveries or Ruthless for added recovery.

    As for the character, Black Ice all around for power, crit and recover and if you find yourself not needing crit than I would go with Cruels for power and recovery.

    As for RoE on tab, most end game groups run 5 or 10 debuff companions making RoE on tab not really need but it is still good to use off tab as an Arcane ability. I would go with CoI on tab to ensure you always have 5 stacks of chill if you are having issues keeping up chill. If you are not having issues keeping up chill I would recommend Icy Ray on tab for its higher damage it does when on tab.

    Running with an GF, OP, and AC DC I get to use Disintegrate every 3 seconds at 18K recovery and my dailies come up every 9 seconds. This is on PS4 at the moment.

    Next mod my recovery will be closer to 24-28K and hopefully I will get my dailies to come up every 7-8 seconds.

    Regardless, the changes coming in mod 15 look really good and will allow me change my CW once again to keep it fresh.

    And no matter what happens, if you are not having fun go play another game. If you are having fun, awesome and enjoy!
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    The guide is very good, but after further testing I'm still not feeling CW for this Mod. It requires a lot more work to produce decent results and is more vulnerable to failure than before with the shift from Oppressor (Icy Veins) to Renegade. Personally I don't see much benefit in focusing on CW when my SW is comparably (if slightly better) geared and has a higher damage output with no very short-lived Chill stacks to maintain.

    I think the guide is right on the money when it says that the whole idea is to buff Disintegrate. I love Disintegrate, but I'm less in love with the fact that the CW's entire rotation is about buffing ONE encounter to the exclusion of almost every other consideration.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    The guide is very good, but after further testing I'm still not feeling CW for this Mod. It requires a lot more work to produce decent results and is more vulnerable to failure than before with the shift from Oppressor (Icy Veins) to Renegade. Personally I don't see much benefit in focusing on CW when my SW is comparably (if slightly better) geared and has a higher damage output with no very short-lived Chill stacks to maintain.

    I think the guide is right on the money when it says that the whole idea is to buff Disintegrate. I love Disintegrate, but I'm less in love with the fact that the CW's entire rotation is about buffing ONE encounter to the exclusion of almost every other consideration.

    The change is from being a cold chill based DPS to an arcane base DPS. The thing that should have happened is the feat in Renegade that makes it the only build for CW should have been moved to Thaum. This would have made CWs DPS build a true DPS build. Than Oppressor would have been our PVP and Renegade would be the true buff build especially if Control Momentum was moved to the Renegade path. I stated this more than once in the CW thread but the devs simply ignored everything we posted.

    What's the point of even letting us test the update if they won't truly listen to our feedback. The only group they made changes to based on feedback was the DC class. I'm sorry but the CW needed this move just like DCs needed a buff and not a debuff for TI.

    If the devs did this than the Thaum build would still be able to stack chill with IV or with Sudden Storm feat from the Oppressor tree and each paragon feat path would be clearly defined and the CW would be in a really good spot, at least IMO.

    I wish the dev would have listened a bit more than they did on the CW feedback thread.

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    vorphied said:

    The guide is very good, but after further testing I'm still not feeling CW for this Mod. It requires a lot more work to produce decent results and is more vulnerable to failure than before with the shift from Oppressor (Icy Veins) to Renegade. Personally I don't see much benefit in focusing on CW when my SW is comparably (if slightly better) geared and has a higher damage output with no very short-lived Chill stacks to maintain.

    I think the guide is right on the money when it says that the whole idea is to buff Disintegrate. I love Disintegrate, but I'm less in love with the fact that the CW's entire rotation is about buffing ONE encounter to the exclusion of almost every other consideration.

    The change is from being a cold chill based DPS to an arcane base DPS. The thing that should have happened is the feat in Renegade that makes it the only build for CW should have been moved to Thaum. This would have made CWs DPS build a true DPS build. Than Oppressor would have been our PVP and Renegade would be the true buff build especially if Control Momentum was moved to the Renegade path. I stated this more than once in the CW thread but the devs simply ignored everything we posted.

    What's the point of even letting us test the update if they won't truly listen to our feedback. The only group they made changes to based on feedback was the DC class. I'm sorry but the CW needed this move just like DCs needed a buff and not a debuff for TI.

    If the devs did this than the Thaum build would still be able to stack chill with IV or with Sudden Storm feat from the Oppressor tree and each paragon feat path would be clearly defined and the CW would be in a really good spot, at least IMO.

    I wish the dev would have listened a bit more than they did on the CW feedback thread.

    I agree with you except that I would add that they never actually removed the Cold/Chill focus; they just made it somewhat less impactful, but still so important for boss fights that you can't afford to neglect it. Now CW is a full-on Arcane DPS who needs to apply Chill stacks constantly in order to maintain optimal DPS.

    Having mechanics to follow isn't a bad thing, but I can't help feeling that CW is in a similar place as before (still only one really viable build, even more so now that the auto-CA tree also happens to be best for DPS, knocking off Oppressor for support as well as DPS), just with a moderately higher damage ceiling and more balls to juggle to maintain performance.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    vorphied said:

    vorphied said:

    The guide is very good, but after further testing I'm still not feeling CW for this Mod. It requires a lot more work to produce decent results and is more vulnerable to failure than before with the shift from Oppressor (Icy Veins) to Renegade. Personally I don't see much benefit in focusing on CW when my SW is comparably (if slightly better) geared and has a higher damage output with no very short-lived Chill stacks to maintain.

    I think the guide is right on the money when it says that the whole idea is to buff Disintegrate. I love Disintegrate, but I'm less in love with the fact that the CW's entire rotation is about buffing ONE encounter to the exclusion of almost every other consideration.

    The change is from being a cold chill based DPS to an arcane base DPS. The thing that should have happened is the feat in Renegade that makes it the only build for CW should have been moved to Thaum. This would have made CWs DPS build a true DPS build. Than Oppressor would have been our PVP and Renegade would be the true buff build especially if Control Momentum was moved to the Renegade path. I stated this more than once in the CW thread but the devs simply ignored everything we posted.

    What's the point of even letting us test the update if they won't truly listen to our feedback. The only group they made changes to based on feedback was the DC class. I'm sorry but the CW needed this move just like DCs needed a buff and not a debuff for TI.

    If the devs did this than the Thaum build would still be able to stack chill with IV or with Sudden Storm feat from the Oppressor tree and each paragon feat path would be clearly defined and the CW would be in a really good spot, at least IMO.

    I wish the dev would have listened a bit more than they did on the CW feedback thread.

    I agree with you except that I would add that they never actually removed the Cold/Chill focus; they just made it somewhat less impactful, but still so important for boss fights that you can't afford to neglect it. Now CW is a full-on Arcane DPS who needs to apply Chill stacks constantly in order to maintain optimal DPS.

    Having mechanics to follow isn't a bad thing, but I can't help feeling that CW is in a similar place as before (still only one really viable build, even more so now that the auto-CA tree also happens to be best for DPS, knocking off Oppressor for support as well as DPS), just with a moderately higher damage ceiling and more balls to juggle to maintain performance.
    I like and dislike the changes. I like the changes as it opens up a bit more options for CW but it also limits us more than in mod 13 and 14. In mod 13/14 we had two only viable paths. Oppressor for DPS/Hybrid and Renegade for buffer unless you played a SS Renegade than a hybrid. Mod 15 it is now only Renegade.

    If the devs would have made the new feat in the Thaum path CW would have 3 viable builds. Oppressor would be for PVP and a secondary buffer for Control Momentum. The Renegade would be the full buff path and finally Thaum would be DPS.

    This would have made all three paths worth pursuing for CWs and each one would have a unique purpose in group or content. Instead now Renegade all the way.

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort. I know the game is not even close to having classes balanced at this point. Maybe mod 16 there will be additional changes to benefit the CW and not only the CW but other classes as well. At this point all we can do is wait for the next mod to land in the test server.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort.

    Yep, that's the issue :( It should be fun to maintain your stacks successfully and execute your rotation, but all that work just to be decent lol.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort.

    Yep, that's the issue :( It should be fun to maintain your stacks successfully and execute your rotation, but all that work just to be decent lol.

    Imagine how much more damage the CW would do if that feat was moved to Thaum. All of the bonus damage feats we have in Thaum would make CW a true DPS and maintaining the various stacks would be worth it as we would really shine. It was why I asked for that feat to be moved but it never happened
  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Thnx for the effort that went into the guide, I respecced my alt accordingly. Much better.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    One thing I would change for mod 15 is get the new headpiece for the AoE build. Than on the single target build use the Manalord head piece. If the boss is like Orcus in T9 I would just stick with the new 600 il piece as it does provide dmg bonus after killing an enemy.
    vorphied said:

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort.

    Yep, that's the issue :( It should be fun to maintain your stacks successfully and execute your rotation, but all that work just to be decent lol.

    Decent? I heard CW was just as good a combat HR and GWF. CW have always been good with AoE damage and that has not changed. What has is our single target damage has jumped up a bit and that has given the CW a boost in damage overall. Yeah it requires effort from the player and it should be rewarded a bit more than what it is setup do produce but who knows how things will be come mod 16. For all we know the devs could do further changes to each class.

    I'm just happy that CW are more DPS but the reality is that as Renegade CW we are still buffers. Devs need to really consider fixing the CW moreso than how they did in mod 15 for mod 16.

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    One thing I would change for mod 15 is get the new headpiece for the AoE build. Than on the single target build use the Manalord head piece. If the boss is like Orcus in T9 I would just stick with the new 600 il piece as it does provide dmg bonus after killing an enemy.

    vorphied said:

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort.

    Yep, that's the issue :( It should be fun to maintain your stacks successfully and execute your rotation, but all that work just to be decent lol.

    Decent? I heard CW was just as good a combat HR and GWF. CW have always been good with AoE damage and that has not changed. What has is our single target damage has jumped up a bit and that has given the CW a boost in damage overall. Yeah it requires effort from the player and it should be rewarded a bit more than what it is setup do produce but who knows how things will be come mod 16. For all we know the devs could do further changes to each class.

    I'm just happy that CW are more DPS but the reality is that as Renegade CW we are still buffers. Devs need to really consider fixing the CW moreso than how they did in mod 15 for mod 16.

    Perhaps it's possible, I'm not sure, but I have yet to see it. AoE damage remains fairly irrelevant since not very much of it is needed and every class can do it; I'm not sure that the boost in single-target damage is enough to bring CW even with GWF, HR, or SW, but it could be that I'm doing something wrong.

    I have no doubt that CW, with the buffs to Arcane Mastery and Disintegrate in particular, is excellent in a speed-run setup where support is coordinated to one-phase bosses. Unfortunately this isn't the normal setup for anyone not running with a premade group for this purpose, and it still leaves us with only one truly viable build direction.

    So far my biggest beef is that Chill Stack management is extremely annoying. We went from extreme easy mode with Icy Veins available in the optimal builds to tapping Ray of Frost constantly throughout the rotation to prevent Chill Stacks from falling off every 2.5 seconds or so. Unless you run Icy Terrain, Conduit, or some other lower-damage combination of Cold encounters, it seems that tedious reapplication of RoF is the way to go. I thought the point here was to make an Arcane-focused wizard more of a thing, but we're stuck tapping RoF all the time. One of the things I enjoy about CW is the smooth, multi-encounter rotation, and this doesn't really do it for me. Am I maybe missing something (no, really, I would like to know)?
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    vorphied said:

    One thing I would change for mod 15 is get the new headpiece for the AoE build. Than on the single target build use the Manalord head piece. If the boss is like Orcus in T9 I would just stick with the new 600 il piece as it does provide dmg bonus after killing an enemy.

    vorphied said:

    As for the mechanics yeah it is now a bit more tedious than before but a skilled player would welcome this change and embrace it; I know I am. I hope the devs see that the CW take a bit more to achieve its DPS and as such it should be rewarded for the extra effort.

    Yep, that's the issue :( It should be fun to maintain your stacks successfully and execute your rotation, but all that work just to be decent lol.

    Decent? I heard CW was just as good a combat HR and GWF. CW have always been good with AoE damage and that has not changed. What has is our single target damage has jumped up a bit and that has given the CW a boost in damage overall. Yeah it requires effort from the player and it should be rewarded a bit more than what it is setup do produce but who knows how things will be come mod 16. For all we know the devs could do further changes to each class.

    I'm just happy that CW are more DPS but the reality is that as Renegade CW we are still buffers. Devs need to really consider fixing the CW moreso than how they did in mod 15 for mod 16.

    Perhaps it's possible, I'm not sure, but I have yet to see it. AoE damage remains fairly irrelevant since not very much of it is needed and every class can do it; I'm not sure that the boost in single-target damage is enough to bring CW even with GWF, HR, or SW, but it could be that I'm doing something wrong.

    I have no doubt that CW, with the buffs to Arcane Mastery and Disintegrate in particular, is excellent in a speed-run setup where support is coordinated to one-phase bosses. Unfortunately this isn't the normal setup for anyone not running with a premade group for this purpose, and it still leaves us with only one truly viable build direction.

    So far my biggest beef is that Chill Stack management is extremely annoying. We went from extreme easy mode with Icy Veins available in the optimal builds to tapping Ray of Frost constantly throughout the rotation to prevent Chill Stacks from falling off every 2.5 seconds or so. Unless you run Icy Terrain, Conduit, or some other lower-damage combination of Cold encounters, it seems that tedious reapplication of RoF is the way to go. I thought the point here was to make an Arcane-focused wizard more of a thing, but we're stuck tapping RoF all the time. One of the things I enjoy about CW is the smooth, multi-encounter rotation, and this doesn't really do it for me. Am I maybe missing something (no, really, I would like to know)?
    CoI on tab is the best way to keep chill up. Most builds recommend RoE on tab but after testing RoE on and off tab it really doesn't impact damage off or on Tab. Since I need a chili ability I use CoI on tab and with high recovery you should be able to keep the chill stacks up. Yeah it is a DPS loss but not having chill stacks at max is more of a DPS loss. You could swap some feat points off Thaum and move them to Opp for Icy Vein and than run the top 4 damaging encounters as you would be able to keep 5 chill stacks up without any issues; however, you would take a DPS loss not having elemental reinforcement.

    Like I said the Thaum path needed the new feat, not the renegade and because the wrong paragon feat path got the new updated feat it basically made Renegade the only viable paragon feat path for us as CW. Hopefully the devs do something improve Thaum path come mod 16, until than we have what we have and I like it. It is a bit more tedious but IMO better than easy mod of a GWF, HR or GF.

    The most important thing I see is recovery; I think dropping the Orcus set and going for the MC3 set may help out moreso in mod 15 due to the bonus of 1.5K recovery (another 3% increase in action point and 6% in recharge speed) than we saw in mod 14.

    I swapped out two of my artifacts and got the Heart of the Black and Blue dragon for 2K more recovery. Swapped out my black ice enchantments on my companion for Ruthless and Silveries for added recovery. I will eventually be swapping out enchantments on my character for even more recovery. I'm around 20K recovery prior to using any potion or food. I believe 24-28K recovery will really help CW push out more damage. My power in groups went from 245K to around 215K. The drop of 30K power in a optimal group has not lowered my damage at all; the added recovery has allowed me to actually surpass the damage I was doing when my recovery was around 12k.

    For CW this is how we should build now...

    Defense Ignore to 100%
    Crit Chance to 100%
    Than add to Recovery until you get it to 20K
    Than start adding to power

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    Oh I already have plenty of Recovery. And CoI in a regular slot is sufficient if all you want to do is maintain Chill; I just dislike the rotation.

    Elemental Reinforcement would have to be pried from my cold, dead hands.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    looking for the noob guide....

    since I'm shelving my do for mod 15 and my cw is almost done with boons I figured I'd beef it up and do a support cw.. but reading this guide.. I don't understand the class enough to know which is the best all around powers load out to stick with until one does understand the class more? I did a mof opp/renegade adn a mof thau/renegade per this guide.. but can someone please be a dear and tell me which four encounters to slot along with oppressive force/ice knife and Swath and chilling and if there is any particular order those should be used in? also if I understand correctly I should be using chilling cloud and scorching burst.. what is the order for them?

    I'm going to be finishing up a couple campaigns on this critter to get used to him.

    edit, or is there any point to practicing wiht the mod 15 load out before mod 15 is live where I am using him?

    edit: should the rotation be fanning icy terrain steal time and then ray of enfeeblement?
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on
  • trzebiat#2067
    trzebiat#2067 Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    looking for the noob guide....

    since I'm shelving my do for mod 15 and my cw is almost done with boons I figured I'd beef it up and do a support cw.. but reading this guide.. I don't understand the class enough to know which is the best all around powers load out to stick with until one does understand the class more? I did a mof opp/renegade adn a mof thau/renegade per this guide.. but can someone please be a dear and tell me which four encounters to slot along with oppressive force/ice knife and Swath and chilling and if there is any particular order those should be used in? also if I understand correctly I should be using chilling cloud and scorching burst.. what is the order for them?

    I'm going to be finishing up a couple campaigns on this critter to get used to him.

    edit, or is there any point to practicing wiht the mod 15 load out before mod 15 is live where I am using him?

    edit: should the rotation be fanning icy terrain steal time and then ray of enfeeblement?

    If you're just starting and you're on mod 14, check the mod 14 guide until mod 15 comes out and use the loadouts listed there, since few things change in mod 15. The most important difference is mod 14 - Oppressor is the spec to use when someone else provides reliable Combat Advantage (GF, HR, GWF, Templock) and Renegade is the spec to use when there's no way to get CA at all due to content and/or group composition. If you want to practice for mod 15 changes then the only thing worth to practice is keeping up chill stacks on bosses without Icy Veins by using 1 or 2 single target cold encounters to maximize damage, but until you get to a point where you'll be running as main DPS you can as well just use Icy Terrain on bosses for keeping chill stacks.

    If you want to be very cheap support that does close to no damage but can provide some buff/debuff and be useful at low IL in endgame content, check the last section at the end of the guide for MoF pure debuffer. Only feats change between mod 14 and 15 for that. So if you're heavily undergeared and play endgame content where your damage compared to other DPS is so low it hardly even matters, then this is one way to play. And while gearing up - moving away from some debuffs to more personal damage.

    Mod 14 regardless if Opp or Rene, the powers to use are mostly the same. If you don't have high crit chance then don't bother with Spellstorm and stick to MoF since it doesn't rely on crit.

    For AoE - Chilling Presence and Combustive Action, Fanning the Flame on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. Usually the rotation goes: FtF > IT > OF > ST > Dis. For at wills you can use mainly Chilling Cloud in AoE.

    Single target - Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction, Ray of Enfeeblement on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Fanning the Flame. Scorching Burst to apply smolder and proc Swath debuff, RoE to apply debuff, IT to proc Controlled Momentum and keep up chill stacks, FtF and Dis for damage and keeping up Elemental Reinforcement buffs. For at wills Scorching to apply smolder at the start of the fight and in case it falls off during phases, as primary at will Ray of Frost is good to use for faster proc (AoC, Shatter Strike) rate than other at wills.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    looking for the noob guide....

    since I'm shelving my do for mod 15 and my cw is almost done with boons I figured I'd beef it up and do a support cw.. but reading this guide.. I don't understand the class enough to know which is the best all around powers load out to stick with until one does understand the class more? I did a mof opp/renegade adn a mof thau/renegade per this guide.. but can someone please be a dear and tell me which four encounters to slot along with oppressive force/ice knife and Swath and chilling and if there is any particular order those should be used in? also if I understand correctly I should be using chilling cloud and scorching burst.. what is the order for them?

    I'm going to be finishing up a couple campaigns on this critter to get used to him.

    edit, or is there any point to practicing wiht the mod 15 load out before mod 15 is live where I am using him?

    edit: should the rotation be fanning icy terrain steal time and then ray of enfeeblement?

    If you're just starting and you're on mod 14, check the mod 14 guide until mod 15 comes out and use the loadouts listed there, since few things change in mod 15. The most important difference is mod 14 - Oppressor is the spec to use when someone else provides reliable Combat Advantage (GF, HR, GWF, Templock) and Renegade is the spec to use when there's no way to get CA at all due to content and/or group composition. If you want to practice for mod 15 changes then the only thing worth to practice is keeping up chill stacks on bosses without Icy Veins by using 1 or 2 single target cold encounters to maximize damage, but until you get to a point where you'll be running as main DPS you can as well just use Icy Terrain on bosses for keeping chill stacks.

    If you want to be very cheap support that does close to no damage but can provide some buff/debuff and be useful at low IL in endgame content, check the last section at the end of the guide for MoF pure debuffer. Only feats change between mod 14 and 15 for that. So if you're heavily undergeared and play endgame content where your damage compared to other DPS is so low it hardly even matters, then this is one way to play. And while gearing up - moving away from some debuffs to more personal damage.

    Mod 14 regardless if Opp or Rene, the powers to use are mostly the same. If you don't have high crit chance then don't bother with Spellstorm and stick to MoF since it doesn't rely on crit.

    For AoE - Chilling Presence and Combustive Action, Fanning the Flame on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. Usually the rotation goes: FtF > IT > OF > ST > Dis. For at wills you can use mainly Chilling Cloud in AoE.

    Single target - Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction, Ray of Enfeeblement on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Fanning the Flame. Scorching Burst to apply smolder and proc Swath debuff, RoE to apply debuff, IT to proc Controlled Momentum and keep up chill stacks, FtF and Dis for damage and keeping up Elemental Reinforcement buffs. For at wills Scorching to apply smolder at the start of the fight and in case it falls off during phases, as primary at will Ray of Frost is good to use for faster proc (AoC, Shatter Strike) rate than other at wills.
    tyvm. pretty much the only thing this toon will be doing is support in codg. with maybe occasional tong runs. but 99.9 percent codg in higher end parties. I expect my il will be about 16k after switching more gear over from my dc. right now just using left over gear on him I have him at about 15.6 with 18.5 recover 101 crit and 94 arpen.
  • trzebiat#2067
    trzebiat#2067 Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    @thefiresidecat
    With stats like that and if you'll get gear and companions with damage bonuses (Hag's Rags, Terrored Grips, Shadowstalker/Offensive Action rings, Razorwood, Archons, etc.) and high rank bondings plus weapon enchant (Trans+ Fey or Perfect+ Vorpal) you can safely run DPS so scratch the pure debuffer stuff and keep Chilling Presence 24/7, plus you can as well run SS in AoE. For sure make SSC to use as main for damage, Atropal/Black Dragon is good in AoE. For CoDG there always should be at least one other class that can force CA (GF, HR, GWF, Templock) so keep in mind there's no reason to run Renegade in mod 14. Run MoF Opp/Thaum single target loadout (with Focused Wizardry) so you can also contribute with more damage and more reliable Controlled Momentum buff. I usually run AoE powers until cubes - Chilling Presence and Combustive Action, Fanning the Flame on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. When mobs spawn: FtF > Dis > IT > OF > ST > Dis. The first Dis before IT and OF simply to proc Elemental Reinforcement for arcane element to also buff OF and ST. Before cubes switch to single target: Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction, Ray of Enfeeblement on mastery, Icy Terrain or Chill Strike (depending on the group), Disintegrate, Fanning the Flame. Scorching Burst to apply smolder, Ray of Frost when other powers are on cooldown. IT vs CS - depending if group is slower or faster with better burst and buff window.
    On bosses in T9G it's the same, though if you run in specific group compositions with no one else being able to force CA - on Withers it may be better to run Rene since it's not convenient to position for CA there. In AoE you should be fine running either SS or MoF. Mod 14 the difference is not as big as in mod 15 due to multiproc of AoC and Shatter Strike on Opp. Personally I liked to run MoF Opp in AoE when someone else was providing CA or SS Rene/Opp when there wasn't reliable source of CA. MoF Opp - extra debuff for increased damage of AoC and Shatter Strike, SS Rene - increased damage of Storm Spell procs from ST with Masterful feat. But recently it's very rare to run in group with no good other source of CA so I mostly run SS Opp in AoE with Sudden Storm on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. Mostly going: Storm Pillar > Dis > IT > OF > SuS > ST > Dis. Until mod 15 both SS and MoF have similar DPS potential in AoE, depending on content and group composition one can be better than the other.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    @thefiresidecat

    With stats like that and if you'll get gear and companions with damage bonuses (Hag's Rags, Terrored Grips, Shadowstalker/Offensive Action rings, Razorwood, Archons, etc.) and high rank bondings plus weapon enchant (Trans+ Fey or Perfect+ Vorpal) you can safely run DPS so scratch the pure debuffer stuff and keep Chilling Presence 24/7, plus you can as well run SS in AoE. For sure make SSC to use as main for damage, Atropal/Black Dragon is good in AoE. For CoDG there always should be at least one other class that can force CA (GF, HR, GWF, Templock) s

    o keep in mind there's no reason to run Renegade in mod 14. Run MoF Opp/Thaum single target loadout (with Focused Wizardry) so you can also contribute with more damage and more reliable Controlled Momentum buff.

    I usually run AoE powers until cubes - Chilling Presence and Combustive Action, Fanning the Flame on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. When mobs spawn: FtF > Dis > IT > OF > ST > Dis. The first Dis before IT and OF simply to proc Elemental Reinforcement for arcane element to also buff OF and ST. Before cubes switch to single target: Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction, Ray of Enfeeblement on mastery, Icy Terrain or Chill Strike (depending on the group), Disintegrate, Fanning the Flame. Scorching Burst to apply smolder, Ray of Frost when other powers are on cooldown. IT vs CS - depending if group is slower or faster with better burst and buff window.

    On bosses in T9G it's the same, though if you run in specific group compositions with no one else being able to force CA - on Withers it may be better to run Rene since it's not convenient to position for CA there. In AoE you should be fine running either SS or MoF. Mod 14 the difference is not as big as in mod 15 due to multiproc of AoC and Shatter Strike on Opp. Personally I liked to run MoF Opp in AoE when someone else was providing CA or SS Rene/Opp when there wasn't reliable source of CA. MoF Opp - extra debuff for increased damage of AoC and Shatter Strike, SS Rene - increased damage of Storm Spell procs from ST with Masterful feat. But recently it's very rare to run in group with no good other source of CA so I mostly run SS Opp in AoE with Sudden Storm on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. Mostly going: Storm Pillar > Dis > IT > OF > SuS > ST > Dis. Until mod 15 both SS and MoF have similar DPS potential in AoE, depending on content and group composition one can be better than the other.



    all I'm doing with it until mod 15 is levelling up boons I don't have yet. (although I have most campaigns) and farming for things like hags rags and maybe quing a few Random ques to get used to rotations. got the shadow stalker, offensive action, I have razorwood siege and tiger and one archon. willow wisp in the last slot, to be replaced with an archon or something better eventually, the four good ones are legendary. bondings are already 14 and I'm running t fey. (I switched some stuff over from my hr since I'm still farming with my dc)
    This toon is meant as a replacement for my Do which they aren't going to want once mod 15 hits. I can't stick the platform with my hr, but the cw dodge seems to work pretty near identically to the do. I tested it and had no serious problems sticking the platform. but in the mean time I'm just sticking with my do for farming codg because he's already 17.6 with rex. why mess with a good thing if I don't have to :)

    but for the rest of this mod I'll switch mof opp thaum load out like you suggest above and I won't go pure debuff in mod 15. I went single target in feats. and have mastery: ray of enfeeblement, icy terrain, disintegrate, fanning the flame.

    the one thing is this is a drow toon. should I keep it drow or make him human or tief for mod 15? for now I'm not too worried since I'm not doing anything to serious with him.

    ty for the help!
  • trzebiat#2067
    trzebiat#2067 Member Posts: 372 Arc User

    @thefiresidecat

    With stats like that and if you'll get gear and companions with damage bonuses (Hag's Rags, Terrored Grips, Shadowstalker/Offensive Action rings, Razorwood, Archons, etc.) and high rank bondings plus weapon enchant (Trans+ Fey or Perfect+ Vorpal) you can safely run DPS so scratch the pure debuffer stuff and keep Chilling Presence 24/7, plus you can as well run SS in AoE. For sure make SSC to use as main for damage, Atropal/Black Dragon is good in AoE. For CoDG there always should be at least one other class that can force CA (GF, HR, GWF, Templock) s

    o keep in mind there's no reason to run Renegade in mod 14. Run MoF Opp/Thaum single target loadout (with Focused Wizardry) so you can also contribute with more damage and more reliable Controlled Momentum buff.

    I usually run AoE powers until cubes - Chilling Presence and Combustive Action, Fanning the Flame on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. When mobs spawn: FtF > Dis > IT > OF > ST > Dis. The first Dis before IT and OF simply to proc Elemental Reinforcement for arcane element to also buff OF and ST. Before cubes switch to single target: Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction, Ray of Enfeeblement on mastery, Icy Terrain or Chill Strike (depending on the group), Disintegrate, Fanning the Flame. Scorching Burst to apply smolder, Ray of Frost when other powers are on cooldown. IT vs CS - depending if group is slower or faster with better burst and buff window.

    On bosses in T9G it's the same, though if you run in specific group compositions with no one else being able to force CA - on Withers it may be better to run Rene since it's not convenient to position for CA there. In AoE you should be fine running either SS or MoF. Mod 14 the difference is not as big as in mod 15 due to multiproc of AoC and Shatter Strike on Opp. Personally I liked to run MoF Opp in AoE when someone else was providing CA or SS Rene/Opp when there wasn't reliable source of CA. MoF Opp - extra debuff for increased damage of AoC and Shatter Strike, SS Rene - increased damage of Storm Spell procs from ST with Masterful feat. But recently it's very rare to run in group with no good other source of CA so I mostly run SS Opp in AoE with Sudden Storm on mastery, Icy Terrain, Disintegrate, Steal Time. Mostly going: Storm Pillar > Dis > IT > OF > SuS > ST > Dis. Until mod 15 both SS and MoF have similar DPS potential in AoE, depending on content and group composition one can be better than the other.



    all I'm doing with it until mod 15 is levelling up boons I don't have yet. (although I have most campaigns) and farming for things like hags rags and maybe quing a few Random ques to get used to rotations. got the shadow stalker, offensive action, I have razorwood siege and tiger and one archon. willow wisp in the last slot, to be replaced with an archon or something better eventually, the four good ones are legendary. bondings are already 14 and I'm running t fey. (I switched some stuff over from my hr since I'm still farming with my dc)
    This toon is meant as a replacement for my Do which they aren't going to want once mod 15 hits. I can't stick the platform with my hr, but the cw dodge seems to work pretty near identically to the do. I tested it and had no serious problems sticking the platform. but in the mean time I'm just sticking with my do for farming codg because he's already 17.6 with rex. why mess with a good thing if I don't have to :)

    but for the rest of this mod I'll switch mof opp thaum load out like you suggest above and I won't go pure debuff in mod 15. I went single target in feats. and have mastery: ray of enfeeblement, icy terrain, disintegrate, fanning the flame.

    the one thing is this is a drow toon. should I keep it drow or make him human or tief for mod 15? for now I'm not too worried since I'm not doing anything to serious with him.

    ty for the help!
    Drow is fine, especially if you don't plan to go really hard about min maxing and squeezing all DPS you can. One other thing that is really important on CW is legendary snail for 25% AP gain, so if you plan to get legendary mount you should definitely go for snail first. Once you get your rotation right, you should be absolutely fine in secondary buff/DPS role in group by going hybrid in next mod, and even as main DPS.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    @trzebiat#2067 Thanks for the guide, some really helpful suggestions.

    Follow-up questions and stuff: I'm still feeling somewhat frustrated in that I'm not confident that I've hit on the best power loadout for single-target play. The choices that would appear to be optimal for damage cause me issues in any fight where circumstances prevent me from attacking for about 2 seconds (CC, having to reposition, boss jumps, etc.), causing Chill stacks to drop off. I'm wondering if it isn't generally better to keep Icy Terrain slotted despite its low damage since a disproportionate amount of the DPS is coming from Disintegrate, and any period with no or reduced Chill stacks is a significant loss.

    I've played with tapping Ray of Frost to maintain Chill, but not only is this highly tedious, it sometimes slows my DPS because I'm forced to tap it after each (or at most every other) encounter activation instead of chaining them as soon as they're ready.

    Also, I like the idea of running Entangling Force to maximize the benefit of Arcane Mastery, but I'm wondering if it doesn't make more sense simply to streamline the rotation by using FtF for the sake of keeping Elemental Reinforcement up and refreshing Smolder if necessary without having to tap Scorching Burst as well.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
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  • hastati96
    hastati96 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    Thanks for all the work you put into the guide. It is really helpful! I did a longer break from NW and it helped me a lot to understand all the changes tha happened during the last 3 modules.

    I have a question regarding class features though.

    Why is it adviced to use "Chilling Presence" for single target builds (mainly for bossfights)? The +48% damage will never happen on bosses (they will never freeze - or will they?)
    I guessed "Arcane Presence" would be better if you pair it with "Arcane Powerfield" because it doubles the +% damage of "Arcane Presence"? On the other hand you are forced to use cold spells for the chill stacks when using "Chilling Presence".

    When I did testing with ACT on puppets it also showed that the overall DPS was better with using "Arcane Presence" + Powerfield and "Chilling Presence" + Powerfield were weaker. Is there a special combination in dungeons where "Chilling Presence" profits more than "Arcane Presence" from the group for example?

    I am glad for every answer that can help me understanding this situation better :)
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • trzebiat#2067
    trzebiat#2067 Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    @trzebiat#2067 Thanks for the guide, some really helpful suggestions.

    Follow-up questions and stuff: I'm still feeling somewhat frustrated in that I'm not confident that I've hit on the best power loadout for single-target play. The choices that would appear to be optimal for damage cause me issues in any fight where circumstances prevent me from attacking for about 2 seconds (CC, having to reposition, boss jumps, etc.), causing Chill stacks to drop off. I'm wondering if it isn't generally better to keep Icy Terrain slotted despite its low damage since a disproportionate amount of the DPS is coming from Disintegrate, and any period with no or reduced Chill stacks is a significant loss.

    I've played with tapping Ray of Frost to maintain Chill, but not only is this highly tedious, it sometimes slows my DPS because I'm forced to tap it after each (or at most every other) encounter activation instead of chaining them as soon as they're ready.

    Also, I like the idea of running Entangling Force to maximize the benefit of Arcane Mastery, but I'm wondering if it doesn't make more sense simply to streamline the rotation by using FtF for the sake of keeping Elemental Reinforcement up and refreshing Smolder if necessary without having to tap Scorching Burst as well.

    Icy Terrain should be totally viable on stationary bosses for keeping up chill. It makes perfect sense in situation like you described when you can't attack.

    As for RoF, currently still on mod 14 on PS4 I tend to just hold it down while using other powers, so if I can't use another encounter right after the previous one, it just starts channeling RoF. The main hand bonus for RoF should also be helpful for applying chill faster. Try instead of tapping it to just hold it down.

    Having 3rd arcane power for quickly getting max arcane stacks is also good idea, especially if you'd use IT for chill. Damage wise EF deals slightly more damage than FtF with APF active at max 5 arcane stacks, but less at 4 stacks (because it has 1 less hit). With FtF in mod 15 also applying Smolder there's no need to use Scorching Burst at all, though there are 2 things about FtF that can be a little bit annoying - first it has longer cooldown, and second it has fixed AP gain not affected by AP gain stat.

    There's some room for a choice depending on personal preference when it comes to 2 out of 4 encounters to use on single target since RoE and Dis have to stay, so everyone should be able to find the right combo that works for the best. On mod 14 the only choice we basically have is just IT vs CS (or rarely IR) because FtF has to stay to proc Elemental Reinforcement.

    It can be also pretty interesting to run 2 CWs and the second CW going for extra debuffs and helping with keeping up chill on boss, and even running no capstone loadout for Controlled Momentum and Icy Veins. This can be pretty good in 10 man, but for sure will also be interesting in 5 man. The one downside is with 2 CWs, Devo and AC there's only 1 slot left for last support who would have to cover granting Combat Advantage unless Rene CW would spec into Nightmare Wizardry when other CW runs Controlled Momentum.
    hastati96 said:

    Thanks for all the work you put into the guide. It is really helpful! I did a longer break from NW and it helped me a lot to understand all the changes tha happened during the last 3 modules.

    I have a question regarding class features though.

    Why is it adviced to use "Chilling Presence" for single target builds (mainly for bossfights)? The +48% damage will never happen on bosses (they will never freeze - or will they?)
    I guessed "Arcane Presence" would be better if you pair it with "Arcane Powerfield" because it doubles the +% damage of "Arcane Presence"? On the other hand you are forced to use cold spells for the chill stacks when using "Chilling Presence".

    When I did testing with ACT on puppets it also showed that the overall DPS was better with using "Arcane Presence" + Powerfield and "Chilling Presence" + Powerfield were weaker. Is there a special combination in dungeons where "Chilling Presence" profits more than "Arcane Presence" from the group for example?

    I am glad for every answer that can help me understanding this situation better :)

    Chilling Presence will increase damage of Disintegrate while Arcane Presence only makes Arcane Mastery work for non arcane powers so it doesn't affect the damage of arcane powers, and on single in mod 15 the new Disintegrate is total killer so buffing it as much as possible is the best way to maximize single target damage. It's 24% buff from CP plus another 3% from off hand bonus.

    APF is 16.67% buff to arcane powers except Dis and 28.57% buff to Dis.

    AP is 0% buff to arcane powers and Dis which is the biggest part of single target damage on bosses. It'll only increase damage of IK, FtF and cold powers by 20% at max 5 arcane stacks without APF and 40% with APF active. Arcane Presence would make sense if we'd use cold and fire/lightning powers as the main source of damage and arcane powers only for utility to buff cold powers. Not the case with Disintegrate.

    You could run Swath for extra debuff and not worry about chill at all, but of course 20% debuff can't match the damage increase from CP. And if you're to run Swath for extra debuff then it's better to run Swath instead of APF while keeping CP. CC with extra 25% crit sev at total 170% crit sev + CA (no Phantasmal) would only be about 9.2% buff but only to crits. With Phantasmal it would be about 8.5% buff to crits and with running Dread instead Fey - only 6.6% to encounters.

    I find the changes to playstyle forcing you to put some work into managing chill stacks to maximize damage a good thing because it encourages paying attention to one of the base mechanics of the class and getting better at playing your character instead of just relying on Icy Veins and spamming powers.
  • hastati96
    hastati96 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    @trzebiat#2067

    Everything makes sense now, thank you. I missed the fact that Arcane Presence does not improve the damage of arcane powers like Disintegrate. Checking my ACT logs Disintegrate is roughly 35-40% of my total damage so it definetly makes sense to buff the power even more with Chilling Presence :p
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • theraxin#5169
    theraxin#5169 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Great guide, however I'd point out that on the CA advantage bonus, 1200 to 1800 makes 9% into 9,9%, which is way less than an actual 0,9% damage, however with 200k power 600 power actually makes up for 0,003% of damage, so it's a "free" bump.

    And artifacts like Heart of the Blue dragon/Black Ice Beholder/Lantern of Revelation really help to "freely" gain those CA damage.

    And I'm personally biased on the Heart of the blue, because the 1k reco+crit, which cannot be found on any other artifact and just really useful in general.
  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    Great guide, however I'd point out that on the CA advantage bonus, 1200 to 1800 makes 9% into 9,9%, which is way less than an actual 0,9% damage, however with 200k power 600 power actually makes up for 0,003% of damage, so it's a "free" bump.

    Wouldn't that be about the same?

    At 200k, 600 is 0.25% dps increase (not rounded to 400)
    At 200 severity + CA 0.9% CA will be 0.3% damage increase (Actually more, because that 0.9% is increased by the boon, so it becomes 0.99%)

    Though I don't think in practice it's important, I'm sure I make more mistakes than 0.3% damage here or there.
  • hastati96
    hastati96 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    @trzebiat#2067

    What about the combination Storm Spell + Powerfield for Single Target? I noticed most CW are using this in CODG and it seems to work very well and a lot of good CWs told me it would be BiS.
    Encounters are RoF, Dis, Chill Strike, Icy Veins - so 2x cold for stacks and 2x arcane for stacks
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression