Is this new crafting worth?

tholther · November 2018

I was used to craft leadership on all my characters. Now that it's gone I don't know what profession to choose and if they are worth the effort. Before this new crafting system the other professions sucked.

So my question is: is this new crafting worth? and if so, what profession shall I choose?

Thanks in advance.

mynaam · November 2018

Only i can see other than MW (since this mod is meant to increase gap between bis and non bis to encourage spending of money) is Jewelcrafting. you can send your gatherers to collect raw gems then polish them and sell the rp. i do not think many will use it on alts as the new profs are very slow to do.

adinosii · November 2018

If you only used Leadership for easy RP, it might not be worthwhile to spend any effort on the new professions.....it seems more aimed at "serious" crafters.

kitkathd · November 2018

mynaam said:
Only i can see other than MW (since this mod is meant to increase gap between bis and non bis to encourage spending of money) is Jewelcrafting. you can send your gatherers to collect raw gems then polish them and sell the rp. i do not think many will use it on alts as the new profs are very slow to do.

This won't work, because at the end of the day it is too god damned expensive for a basic player to pay artisans to do anything. The commission costs starting at level 70 and up are RIDICULOUS. For alchemy you have to pay 7 gold an hour online and off per characters workshop to do anything. Thats 7 gold...an hour for one character. Who makes 7 gold an hour? Now multiply that by how many alts. Say you have 10 alts that used to run profs. Thats now 70 gold an hour even while you are offline. This system is just gone. They destroyed professions and crafting, exactly like what happened to starwars galaxies. I especially love how they deleted my post drawing all the comparisons to starwars galaxies. They apparently don't want to admit the mistakes. They revamp multiple classes dramatically and completely ravage the economy and the crafting system in one major patch... Starwars galaxies 2.0 right here folks. Its no wonder they are behind in release schedule. neverwinter is suppose to be releasing Waterdeep like all the other DnD products but instead they are doing a filler module with no licensing from Wizards. This games dead.

callumf · November 2018

kitkathd said:

mynaam said:
Only i can see other than MW (since this mod is meant to increase gap between bis and non bis to encourage spending of money) is Jewelcrafting. you can send your gatherers to collect raw gems then polish them and sell the rp. i do not think many will use it on alts as the new profs are very slow to do.
This won't work, because at the end of the day it is too god damned expensive for a basic player to pay artisans to do anything. The commission costs starting at level 70 and up are RIDICULOUS. For alchemy you have to pay 7 gold an hour online and off per characters workshop to do anything. Thats 7 gold...an hour for one character. Who makes 7 gold an hour? Now multiply that by how many alts. Say you have 10 alts that used to run profs. Thats now 70 gold an hour even while you are offline. This system is just gone. They destroyed professions and crafting, exactly like what happened to starwars galaxies. I especially love how they deleted my post drawing all the comparisons to starwars galaxies. They apparently don't want to admit the mistakes. They revamp multiple classes dramatically and completely ravage the economy and the crafting system in one major patch... Starwars galaxies 2.0 right here folks. Its no wonder they are behind in release schedule. neverwinter is suppose to be releasing Waterdeep like all the other DnD products but instead they are doing a filler module with no licensing from Wizards. This games dead.

I remember the SWG debacle. I am no big crafter in any game, but this current change in Neverwinter does seem a little harsh. Gold is pretty hard to grind out. And for a newer player it would take ages to get 7 gold.

kitkathd · November 2018

callumf#9018 said:

kitkathd said:

mynaam said:
Only i can see other than MW (since this mod is meant to increase gap between bis and non bis to encourage spending of money) is Jewelcrafting. you can send your gatherers to collect raw gems then polish them and sell the rp. i do not think many will use it on alts as the new profs are very slow to do.
This won't work, because at the end of the day it is too god damned expensive for a basic player to pay artisans to do anything. The commission costs starting at level 70 and up are RIDICULOUS. For alchemy you have to pay 7 gold an hour online and off per characters workshop to do anything. Thats 7 gold...an hour for one character. Who makes 7 gold an hour? Now multiply that by how many alts. Say you have 10 alts that used to run profs. Thats now 70 gold an hour even while you are offline. This system is just gone. They destroyed professions and crafting, exactly like what happened to starwars galaxies. I especially love how they deleted my post drawing all the comparisons to starwars galaxies. They apparently don't want to admit the mistakes. They revamp multiple classes dramatically and completely ravage the economy and the crafting system in one major patch... Starwars galaxies 2.0 right here folks. Its no wonder they are behind in release schedule. neverwinter is suppose to be releasing Waterdeep like all the other DnD products but instead they are doing a filler module with no licensing from Wizards. This games dead.
I remember the SWG debacle. I am no big crafter in any game, but this current change in Neverwinter does seem a little harsh. Gold is pretty hard to grind out. And for a newer player it would take ages to get 7 gold.

There are tasks that are gold per 20 minutes. The whole system is just scaled wrong in the extreme. Its as if they designed the whole system to account for people sitting on thousands of gold not realizing it needs to be scaled on gold earned per hour or something. Nobody can sustain this, its just a matter of time before the guys with giant wads of gold come here to add their voice to the problem. This is not sustainable, PERIOD. Theres no economy and the only way to gain the gold to pay for professions is to do something else other than professions, this makes no sense and destroys economies. This is like telling someone in USA that they only way they can pay their rent is if they worked a job in Germany each day.

pitmonster · November 2018

So I don't fully understand the new gold economy. I hear the gold sink, what is the gold making mechanic? Are you suppose to sell your produced items in the Sun market or something?

nunya · November 2018

If you only used Leadership before, there probably isn't much in this new profession system for you. As mentioned, the only thing you might be interested in is making polished gems for RP from raw gems. If you get an adventurer with 20% or 25% chance of "Dab Hand" and a Jewelcrafter with the same, then it could be relatively worthwhile. ("Dab Hand" gives you a chance at a second set of results for no commission cost. It doesn't work for "finished" products like armor, weapons, etc. It only works for things that can be used in other recipes to make something else.) The problem is that you'd need to find an artisan with a good "Dab Hand" percent and a low (or negative) commission modifier.

adinosii · November 2018

The gold cost will be reflected in the final AH price of some items - right now, Masterwork Weapons +1 are pretty much BiS (even more once Exalted), and they will remain so until the IL 600 weapons are released in Mod 16. People are willing to pay a premium for that, and the crafter should be able to recoup the gold cost one way or another.

The issue is more with lower-level, non-masterwork items. They will not sell well, and the cost of making them would seem somewhat, well, excessive in some cases. Then again, that's pretty much how it was before. Apart from using Leadership for RP, professions were mostly used to make a few Masterwork weapons and armors, jewels and such and maybe some pants and shirts...that's it. (well, OK, also crates for guild donations, but that's a separate issue) So, really, nothing fundamental has changed regarding what people craft.

banzaikitten · November 2018

are fk* kidding us ?
i had tons of mats ,now i can exchange it for, new HAMSTER ??
serious ?,well.
i guess its time to clean 46GB from my game SSD in that case.

nunya · November 2018

banzaikitten said:
are fk* kidding us ?
i had tons of mats ,now i can exchange it for, new HAMSTER ??
serious ?,well.
i guess its time to clean 46GB from my game SSD in that case.

Mmmm. It's not really that bad. I got four characters to Workshop level 3 last night. I'll get some more there tonight, probably another 6 to 8. If you're not into MW, then there's probably not much for you to craft. I was initially worried about the gold costs, but I've figured out how to solve the problems that this new system created for me in other ways that don't rely on crafting. So for me the gold costs should be quite low and manageable. For people who are going to rely on crafting to supply Profession Resources to their guild, the gold costs will probably be something they are concerned about. For anyone doing MW, gold is definitely going to be a concern.

travit · November 2018

Just one more reason to quit this game. Professions were fine had all alts with lvl 25 on most things.Won't start over again it's BS

minotaur2857 · November 2018

travit said:
Just one more reason to quit this game. Professions were fine had all alts with lvl 25 on most things.Won't start over again it's BS

This is my feeling, going 3->4 costs 5M in commissions or ADs, prohibitive on more than one character, more making alts worthless, and absolutely killing guilds. Gold used to be readily available from leadership and I've donated at least 100K to various guilds, probably a fair bit more, now I will need everything I can produce and guilds will suffer.

Also the removal of being able to buy normal crafting supplies from the SH buildings (bloomery etc) makes guild marks much less useful, so again guilds get killed off.

Note to devs, making us spend a vast amount of ADs to buy back stuff we already earned is NOT cool.

Also changing the commissions at reset is horrendous, means I can't make multiple items overnight and then turn them in when I get up.

hypergorila2 · November 2018

Professions got this massive rework, but in the end they are just as useless if not more then before.
Before leadership was fine, but now getting RP is just so cumbersome that it's really not worth the time and efort.
Unless you going for masterworks, you can just forget this system even exists imho.

kvet · November 2018

All I can say is: I've made nearly 1 million AD just today, and NOT with Masterwork.... So, yeah, I'd say it's worth it.

(that's 1m AD with professions alone, on top of the 100K RAD daily refine)

lucadamingo · November 2018

My 254 Hero's and 254 Adventurer's are like some eat free on Sunday once coupon at your local Ihop ($5.00 limit).

midnightita · November 2018

kvet said:
All I can say is: I've made nearly 1 million AD just today, and NOT with Masterwork.... So, yeah, I'd say it's worth it.

(that's 1m AD with professions alone, on top of the 100K RAD daily refine)

How?

pterias · November 2018

I'm not feeling motivated to do anything or even get started with professions at all. At the very least, I think it would be wise to wait a couple weeks for a handful of the most dire bugs to shake out, then just slow-walk it from there. Probably only do one character at that.

Meh.

kitkathd · November 2018

adinosii said:
The gold cost will be reflected in the final AH price of some items - right now, Masterwork Weapons +1 are pretty much BiS (even more once Exalted), and they will remain so until the IL 600 weapons are released in Mod 16. People are willing to pay a premium for that, and the crafter should be able to recoup the gold cost one way or another.

The issue is more with lower-level, non-masterwork items. They will not sell well, and the cost of making them would seem somewhat, well, excessive in some cases. Then again, that's pretty much how it was before. Apart from using Leadership for RP, professions were mostly used to make a few Masterwork weapons and armors, jewels and such and maybe some pants and shirts...that's it. (well, OK, also crates for guild donations, but that's a separate issue) So, really, nothing fundamental has changed regarding what people craft.

I made a living as a master alchemist making enhanced potions, potions of stamina, potions of power, and distilled healing potions. It was worth while and fun. The enhanced potions have 4 ingredients that all have to be gathered and theres only 3 gathering slots now. Potions of stamina, potency, and power are extinct. Distilled potions were replaced with +1 versions but the cost to make +1 potions are extreme compared to just buying healthstones and healing pots from a vendor. They have destroyed professions completely. There shouldn't be a market for crafted end game BIS items because once you get them you no longer need to shop for anything. Thats like selling a fully functional car that will never break down or need replacement parts. They have destroyed what little market there was to create a crafting system that looks fun but has no market to go with it and the cost to do just about anything in the workshop requires hours of gameplay outside the workshop to allow it. They need to reduce gold costs or improve gold gain. Furthermore before I quit playing, I religiously did daily dread ring lairsx2 on each of my toons each day. Before the patch I got 5ish gold per run from selling bowls and loot picked up from trash monsters. After the patch with the new loot system the majority of the items I get are RP items that sell for far less and the treasure loot drop rate is 1/5 what it was before. I get 1 gold total from selling everything I pickup in a lair now. Not only did they make a profession system that leans heavily on a long dead currency, they also nerfed the ability to gain it while not reducing any costs from existing gold expenses like moving enchants or buying potions/kits/keys.

kitkathd · November 2018

minotaur2857 said:

travit said:
Just one more reason to quit this game. Professions were fine had all alts with lvl 25 on most things.Won't start over again it's BS
This is my feeling, going 3->4 costs 5M in commissions or ADs, prohibitive on more than one character, more making alts worthless, and absolutely killing guilds. Gold used to be readily available from leadership and I've donated at least 100K to various guilds, probably a fair bit more, now I will need everything I can produce and guilds will suffer.

Also the removal of being able to buy normal crafting supplies from the SH buildings (bloomery etc) makes guild marks much less useful, so again guilds get killed off.

Note to devs, making us spend a vast amount of ADs to buy back stuff we already earned is NOT cool.

Also changing the commissions at reset is horrendous, means I can't make multiple items overnight and then turn them in when I get up.

The new profession system in a nutshell: The ingredients to make crates of gold with alchemy to donate to the guild coffer costs more gold to make than the value you donate and if you try to utilize stronger artisans and tools somehow it gets even worse costwise. This system was designed backwards without any thought of creating a market. I'm tellin ya people, this is exactly what happened to Starwars Galaxies, they revamped crafting and combat dramatically in a massive overhaul patch and it killed the ingame economy over night and everyone left for greener pastures instantly. In Barovia release they gave us salvage that was popping out of our asses for free virtually, winter festival we get tons of stuff for free, why on earth would they take a core mechanic and make it cost so much to do so little. They need to remove commission costs, double the time to make things and call it a frikkin day. We have enough god damned currencies to worry about in this game we don't need more drain on gold.

lucadamingo · November 2018

Nerf this,nerf that,nerf those too,nerf all these, and nerf Leadership in particular(AGAIN which led me to skip a year and a half and not care and a year when things were nerf'd again after).

What's with this site you can't post gifs?It's just the mad cat gif btw,no need to click if you know it. media/Nrl65xdV70qze/giphy.gif .The greediest HAMSTER I have seen out of this game so far and I been playing since the day it came out.You dig your own grave.

banzaikitten · November 2018

ug, toyed with it (before i delete it) ,hard to see what work is who in what class, crafting system is weard.

juergeng123 · November 2018

Mod 15 is the prefect game killer

adinosii · November 2018

juergeng123 said:
Mod 15 is the prefect game killer

Well, I wouldn't say it was quite that bad, but it sure managed to annoy more players than it pleased. Players that loved playing TRs or DO DCs or relied on Leadership for RP income are probably particularly annoyed and considering that Mod 15 is very light on new content, I fully expect many players to spend less time on the game than before, and have less interest in spending money than they would have...but "game killer"? That's a bit too strong.

ragnarz2 · November 2018

The new crafting system is really time consuming. It is clunky. It is not for the casual. Now it seems self-evident that the new system was put in place for some strategic reason. We can theorize about that reason ad-nauseum. What I think we can all agree on is that the actual implementation is just horrible stupid. NW does not need a new time-sink. The whole thing could have been implemented on a single panel. No instance required. No moving from hot-point to hot-point to external NPC. I would like to introduce the developers to the following term "CONVENIENCE FUNCTION". Go look it up, idiots.

nunya · November 2018

minotaur2857 said:
This is my feeling, going 3->4 costs 5M in commissions or ADs, prohibitive on more than one character, more making alts worthless, and absolutely killing guilds. Gold used to be readily available from leadership and I've donated at least 100K to various guilds, probably a fair bit more, now I will need everything I can produce and guilds will suffer.

Also the removal of being able to buy normal crafting supplies from the SH buildings (bloomery etc) makes guild marks much less useful, so again guilds get killed off.

Note to devs, making us spend a vast amount of ADs to buy back stuff we already earned is NOT cool.

Also changing the commissions at reset is horrendous, means I can't make multiple items overnight and then turn them in when I get up.

I've already got eight characters to workshop level 3. That's as high as any of my characters are likely to go. Yes, 5m in commissions or AD is a lot and it will take a while if you plan to do it (and are not awash in AD). My feeling, though, is that level 4 workshop is not really necessary unless you're doing masterwork. I think most players will actually be better off staying at level 3 workshop because the common artisans seem to tend to have lower commission costs and their proficiency and focus seem to be "good enough" for what non-masterwork crafters will want to do. Workshop level 4 doesn't really get you much: just 6 more delivery box slots, a prettier environment, and a small chance at epic artisans.

As far as killing guilds, it's not the workshop upgrade that will kill guilds; it's both the lack of high donation value craftable items for categories such as Gems and Surplus Equipment, and the number of steps required to make things like Crates of Transmuted Gold. I've already worked out that there are 15 to 20 steps required to make Crates of Transmuted Gold. Quite honestly, guilds that have the resource production necessary to bring the Assayer and Gemcutter to the SH and the members willing to tend those structures regularly to prevent them sitting full for long periods will be just fine. Epic gear that could previously be salvaged can be donated for 810 Surplus Equipment per each. Rare gear that could previously be salvaged is pretty much vendor junk now because it's only worth 20 Surplus Equipment per each. With only my wife and I running epics and donating the purple gear we get, we've already contributed about 5k Surplus Equipment in just two nights of doing randoms and a couple of epics per night. At that rate, I don't see my guild dipping into the 800k surplus equipment I have in crates in the bank any time soon. Similarly, guilds with even more active members than my guild has should have little trouble with this category of resource, either. It's low level guilds and guilds with casual or very casual membership that will suffer the most. I think anyone starting a guild now is either rich, crazy, or both.

kitkathd said:
The ingredients to make crates of gold with alchemy to donate to the guild coffer costs more gold to make than the value you donate and if you try to utilize stronger artisans and tools somehow it gets even worse costwise.

This is not actually true. The base cost (before commission modifiers) to do the Crates of Transmuted Gold task and all the sub-tasks that give you the resources necessary to finally run the Crates task is just over 7g. Granted, the return on that investment - especially when you consider there are 15 to 20 steps (depending on how you count them) in order to actually make the crates - is very low since the value of crates of gold is still just 5g per crate and you get three crates from the task. So you get back a little more than double the cost to actually do everything required to make them. Of course, if you have artisans with low commission modifiers, you're strategic in which ones you use, and you plan ahead for your guild's needs, you could get the crates made for (at minimum) 1/4 of the base cost - or just under 2g. Also, if you use artisans that have either a high percentage chance at "Dab Hand" or the skill that negates commission cost, then you can bring your costs down even further. "Dab Hand" will sometimes give you a second result with no associated commission cost. Yes, you could use artisans that have 150% or 200% commission costs. If you do, then of course you'll never break even. However, the only people who will make that choice will be those who don't take the time to analyze the costs for all the tasks. As you can see, I've already broken it down, including doing the division necessary for things such as having to use 13 out of 24 Gold Sand to produce the crates.

The only other things you can use professions for when it comes to guild donations are crates of astral diamonds and "Profession Resources" (formerly called "Labor"). The problem with Profession Resources is that you cannot donate any high quality items to the guild. So unless you've got low level adventurers, you can't just send them out to gather Copper Ore and provide relative heaps of Profession Resources for very little gold. On top of that, things like Oak Logs where you can get the Focus stat low enough to mostly avoid high quality results are almost 49 times more expensive than Copper Ore (in terms of gold cost to produce) and Oak Logs have only 3/4 of the value of Copper Ore (in terms of how many units of Profession Resources you get). Here's a link to my post on the preview thread where I go into this in-depth: https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/comment/13062093#Comment_13062093

EDIT: Per today's patch notes!

"It is now possible to donate High-Quality materials to the Stronghold for Professions Supplies credit. However, High-Quality materials don't provide a bonus for this donation."

Let the rivers of copper flow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

methuselas · November 2018

Yup. It's a HAMSTER-poor system.

I used all 3 of my "Legacy" purples for my Alchemist character, 'cos well, you can't run multiple professions anymore on one toon as it's not cost effective, unless you have 70s in all the professions, which I don't. Each purple "Artisan" has at least a speed decrease of 50% and 1 has a cost INCREASE of 150%. So, to use a purple Artisan, it costs MORE and takes LONGER. That's ridiculous! The whole PURPOSE of having Tier 3 Assets was to reduce time and cost. Out of all 8 of my toons, I made sure to get 1 purple for their "main" profession (only to get screwed on a couple, 'cos they wouldn't let me SEE my old levels and my dumb HAMSTER didn't write them down before the patch) and only ONE has a reduced speed of a whopping 25%. Every single one is either 0 or 25% and higher. I have Common Artisans that give me better results, but if I WANT the "high quality" components, I NEED the higher tier Artisans.

Plus, I'm not about to drop 5 bucks for ONE Artisan that's more than likely going to be another common.

I can't believe they managed to drag me back in and get me to spend money again, 'cos of Ravenloft. I left before Strongholds even came out, only to come back to a Level 1 Stronghold, a dead guild, a salvage nerf and professions gutted......

nunya · November 2018

methuselas said:
Yup. It's a HAMSTER-poor system.

I used all 3 of my "Legacy" purples for my Alchemist character, 'cos well, you can't run multiple professions anymore on one toon as it's not cost effective, unless you have 70s in all the professions, which I don't. Each purple "Artisan" has at least a speed decrease of 50% and 1 has a cost INCREASE of 150%. So, to use a purple Artisan, it costs MORE and takes LONGER. That's ridiculous! The whole PURPOSE of having Tier 3 Assets was to reduce time and cost. Out of all 8 of my toons, I made sure to get 1 purple for their "main" profession (only to get screwed on a couple, 'cos they wouldn't let me SEE my old levels and my dumb HAMSTER didn't write them down before the patch) and only ONE has a reduced speed of a whopping 25%. Every single one is either 0 or 25% and higher. I have Common Artisans that give me better results, but if I WANT the "high quality" components, I NEED the higher tier Artisans.

Plus, I'm not about to drop 5 bucks for ONE Artisan that's more than likely going to be another common.

I can't believe they managed to drag me back in and get me to spend money again, 'cos of Ravenloft. I left before Strongholds even came out, only to come back to a Level 1 Stronghold, a dead guild, a salvage nerf and professions gutted......

The artisan you get is random. Some of them have good stats, some do not. I agree that I hate the RNG of it all. However, this is the stupid system they have "gifted" to us. If you get your workshop to level 4, you'll get epic artisans applying to work for you from time to time. However, from what I can see, epic artisans and rare artisans are not "better" simply because they are epic or rare, and epic artisans are certainly not "the best" just because they are epic. Their stats are more important than their rarity/quality and if you continue to do crafting, I would bet you will prefer some for certain tasks and others for other tasks.

kemnimtarkas · November 2018

After finally getting my main to level 2 workshop - I'm underwhelmed. The new system is extremely labor intensive, and I'm not seeing any real fun in it. Probably fun for some - definitely not for me. I will retire my professions and ignore the N on my keyboard going forward when playing the game.

themoore · November 2018

I have a problem or I simply do not know what to do. The very first list they give you at the market to fulfil and I say I will come back when I have all the items... Well I have all the stuff in the list but now what?? I go back and they just show me the list again and I can only reply that I will be back with the ingredients. I really do not know what to do. What am I doing wrong?

Is this new crafting worth?

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