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    namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited July 2018


    I love this statement! I don't feel rich, but then you read things like this and you're like "Whoa! Maybe I am!" My wife and I were able to fully refine the new weapons from uncommon to legendary the day we got them, and that includes changing to the new Dead set on our warlocks (Lacings of the Dead and Carcanet of the Dead, replacing the Lostmauth neck and waist) ... and we still have over 600k refinement points on these characters.

    ~500K for both weapon pieces, that is the approximate cost in SES, pres wards, and augmentation cubes, if the RNG is okay to you and you get what you want in the average number of tries. That estimate does not include RP. While the primal set bonus is a bit better in many cases, it seems a bit expensive for someone with a pilgrim or pioneer set just to change the set bonus.

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    wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    I am worried we have too many here that are saying that the end game content is too hard and needs to be easier. I don't like this mindset since it would devalue the time and effort other players have put into the content. I want there to be hard areas and content worth my time to run. If you can't play well enough to get there or you expect to get their a week/month into the game I don't want any part of this game. If they do make a lower tiered version of the end game dungeons I would like them to be for zero rewards. People will abuse the rewards if they can get the same items for some easier extent of the dungeon. I want there to be something for both the early game players and end game players to have. The early game players have a lot of content to finish in the game as is right now. I have no issue for more mid game content with similar rewards as CN/ETOS. I just don't want that to be where the best items drop since you will see the end game players just farm that to ridiculous levels until everything put into that dungeon sells for next to nothing of what it does right now in the economy. Also, if you make it too easy then someone will build a bot to run the content like we saw when the random dungeon queue came out. Please keep it to where the end game is difficult for good players. As time passes power creep will allow everyone to do the content.

    Most players are not complaining about the content being too hard... but getting into the content, if you are not the right class, or in the right guild is almost impossible.
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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    It's just a complete load of HAMSTER coming from the OP. You just want dungeons to be easier because you can't adapt to them by learning the mechanics.

    There is ALREADY a LOT of catch up mechanics in the game as far as gear go.

    Primal gear is extremely easy to get and are ilvl 500. The best tier of weapon is also primal, also very easy to get. Hunts from mod 12 to mod 14 are also very very easy to do and gives very nice rewards. You can also get up to ilvl 540 from random mobs or by spending 250 barovian coins, which are also very simple to farm. You even get a lot of free gear along with free rank 8 enchants for what is essentially, showing up at a quest.

    Stop crying and start getting good at the game. You are the only reason you are being held back.
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    nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    I am worried we have too many here that are saying that the end game content is too hard and needs to be easier. I don't like this mindset since it would devalue the time and effort other players have put into the content. I want there to be hard areas and content worth my time to run. If you can't play well enough to get there or you expect to get their a week/month into the game I don't want any part of this game. If they do make a lower tiered version of the end game dungeons I would like them to be for zero rewards. People will abuse the rewards if they can get the same items for some easier extent of the dungeon. I want there to be something for both the early game players and end game players to have. The early game players have a lot of content to finish in the game as is right now. I have no issue for more mid game content with similar rewards as CN/ETOS. I just don't want that to be where the best items drop since you will see the end game players just farm that to ridiculous levels until everything put into that dungeon sells for next to nothing of what it does right now in the economy. Also, if you make it too easy then someone will build a bot to run the content like we saw when the random dungeon queue came out. Please keep it to where the end game is difficult for good players. As time passes power creep will allow everyone to do the content.

    No one here is saying that the best rewards should come from easier versions of the dungeons. In fact, I personally said that I don't care about the rewards at all. Make the rewards and difficulty on par with Castle Never (because getting salvage is always nice!). I just would like to experience the content and learn the dungeons. Eventually, I'll have the item level to run the harder versions of these dungeons (effectively what are the current versions of these dungeons) and, when I finally get there, I'll be able to contribute and not be completely clueless and a liability. My warlock is 13.4k item level and I've not even run Tomb of the Nine Gods yet because I feel like my item level is too low and I don't want to be a clueless noob that causes a wipe.
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    callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,710 Arc User
    It would also be helpful if the iL on certain older items was increased as they are better than some newer items, but the iL is shown as much lower. [I may be wrong here but some old belts seem to be better than the new Chult Belts for example]
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    dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User

    While true for the crafted wootz sets, I see no reason to take the vistanis over the other chult sets that have same base damage and better set bonuses.

    The Vistani weapons were free. The better Chult sets are not. My main has the Pilgrim HR set but hanging that or Pioneer on ten alts would be a bit daunting. Primal or Tyrant don't bear thinking about.

    My problem with the current system is that it's resulted in an enshrined snobbery. If you don't have an IL of 16K or better you'd might as well not exist. This is Bad, proof left as an exercise for the reader.

    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
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    nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    While true for the crafted wootz sets, I see no reason to take the vistanis over the other chult sets that have same base damage and better set bonuses.

    The Vistani weapons were free. The better Chult sets are not. My main has the Pilgrim HR set but hanging that or Pioneer on ten alts would be a bit daunting. Primal or Tyrant don't bear thinking about.

    My problem with the current system is that it's resulted in an enshrined snobbery. If you don't have an IL of 16K or better you'd might as well not exist. This is Bad, proof left as an exercise for the reader.

    Honestly, getting the Primal weapons is pretty easy. Run a queue or two a day, then whatever epics you're capable of and you'd have them in no time. I've already equipped 8 characters in full Primal armor and gotten two of them both their main- and off-hand weapons. If I wanted to get more for my other characters, I could probably have at least another two fully equipped. I just don't care that much about those characters and so I've wasted at least 3000 (and probably more) seals on Primal armor for salvaging. (This actually makes me realize there is one other character I definitely care enough about to put those weapons on...)

    Now, if you're planning to get the weapons exalted, that's going to take the serious work. I will probably never have an exalted weapon (to say nothing of two!), but that's because I just don't care enough. I could probably get my warlock into Tomb of the Nine Gods runs and possibly even my 12.6k paladin. I just don't because, as I've said somewhere before, I don't want to be the clueless noob that causes a wipe and wastes everyone's time. I have fun sticking with the lesser epic dungeons, working on whatever unfinished campaigns I have, and grinding vouchers and shards of power for my guild. Since I'm having fun, I just can't be bothered to ask for a training run through TONG or CODG, which my alliance would almost certainly be happy to help me with.
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    manufracturemanufracture Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    I used to hate and detest FBI because it was "too hard" now I find it easy but still hate and detest it because most people leave :) The point to the OP is, keep at it and you will get into the End Game Dungeons eventually but by that time you might be a mod or two behind. So what, I would personally hate to be at the very end where I can already run everthing....what would I work for then? Not that Cryptic would even consider changing it but if they do read this, please leave the difficulty as is!

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr
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    nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr

    Pretend it's a pact blade, but one that you use on a mobile victim sacrifice and therefore have to stab upward with, instead of stabbing down at a prone sacrifice. :D
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    eion311eion311 Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    I used a ton of scrolls learning CR. Now though I hardly use any during a run.
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    auron#6793 auron Member Posts: 395 Arc User
    i think a story mode dungeon option would work well there are some people like myself who are more intrested in the lore and storyline than being the strongest/max gear.

    like maybe have the storymode drop only so many seals a day or something and only drop blue/green gears.
    <div align="center"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YH9QCXK.png" alt="" /></div></img>
    ▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ Drac ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂
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    <div align="center">AKA Draconis of Luskan</div>

    Take a backseat boy. Cause now I'm driving. ~ Give it up - Elizabeth Gilies ft. Ariana Grande

    RIP Foundry: On that day, when the sky fell away, our world came to an end. ~Lifelight
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    frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I wouldn't care if a story mode dungeon didn't drop anything whatsoever - probably wouldn't go more than once each character if it was really worth seeing, and only once if it's blah.
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    nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    i think a story mode dungeon option would work well there are some people like myself who are more intrested in the lore and storyline than being the strongest/max gear.

    like maybe have the storymode drop only so many seals a day or something and only drop blue/green gears.

    If they made them no more difficult than Castle Never or other similar dungeons, then a separate story mode version simply wouldn't be needed.
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    callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,710 Arc User

    I used to hate and detest FBI because it was "too hard" now I find it easy but still hate and detest it because most people leave :) The point to the OP is, keep at it and you will get into the End Game Dungeons eventually but by that time you might be a mod or two behind. So what, I would personally hate to be at the very end where I can already run everthing....what would I work for then? Not that Cryptic would even consider changing it but if they do read this, please leave the difficulty as is!

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr

    Yes dont try stuff till your ready for it.

    And it interests me the comment on FBI - the reason it is "too hard" is because the iL is set too low. Its my hot topic I bang on about all the time as it reduces a fun dungeon to a waste of time or a massive fail-fest. Set the iL for Advanced Queue to 14k and lets have some fun.

    And please, let's not have the "but a group of 11k iL can smash FBI if they know what they are doing" nonsense. FACT is that 80-90% of pug FBI runs fail or give up ;)
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    therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User

    Why is challenge seen as the most important thing - FUN should be the most important thing.

    ...

    My previous MMO was not a difficult game, but it was tremendous fun. People goofed off, there was a system for upping the difficulty with extra rewards if you wanted a challenge. Partially because of this there was no question of IL, and almost any party composition could do 90%+ of the content so that was another way of making it more difficult if you wanted to.

    That's a very interesting point. I fully agree, the player's fun should be the main motivation to create content. But I also see that it is not so easy to satisfy all of the very heterogeneous player base. However, with mod 14 I think the devs have found the solution and I hope this system will be expanded to end-game-content with the next mod(s): the barovian hunting system.

    Create a basic and not so hard to handle task for end-game-content and let the players add optional challenges that adds additional and worthwhile (!) rewards.
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    thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    I used to hate and detest FBI because it was "too hard" now I find it easy but still hate and detest it because most people leave :) The point to the OP is, keep at it and you will get into the End Game Dungeons eventually but by that time you might be a mod or two behind. So what, I would personally hate to be at the very end where I can already run everthing....what would I work for then? Not that Cryptic would even consider changing it but if they do read this, please leave the difficulty as is!

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr


    why would you argue this way instead of wanting master dungeons and a corresponding normal dungeon for people who aren't high enough il so they can learn the dungeon. I think N dungeons of the newest content should probably be somewhere in between cn and fbi in difficulty and they should leave Master dungeons alone.

    they used to do that and I'm really confused why they stopped. imo the last good mod was underdark.


    so repeating again for those who skim

    two (2) levels of same dungeon for each mod. so everyone can complete new content. STILL as hard as now.. but something not so hard for those who can't. not the same rewards for the two.. much like ndemo and mdemo..


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    minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,141 Arc User

    I used to hate and detest FBI because it was "too hard" now I find it easy but still hate and detest it because most people leave :) The point to the OP is, keep at it and you will get into the End Game Dungeons eventually but by that time you might be a mod or two behind. So what, I would personally hate to be at the very end where I can already run everthing....what would I work for then? Not that Cryptic would even consider changing it but if they do read this, please leave the difficulty as is!

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr


    why would you argue this way instead of wanting master dungeons and a corresponding normal dungeon for people who aren't high enough il so they can learn the dungeon. I think N dungeons of the newest content should probably be somewhere in between cn and fbi in difficulty and they should leave Master dungeons alone.

    they used to do that and I'm really confused why they stopped. imo the last good mod was underdark.


    so repeating again for those who skim

    two (2) levels of same dungeon for each mod. so everyone can complete new content. STILL as hard as now.. but something not so hard for those who can't. not the same rewards for the two.. much like ndemo and mdemo..


    I kinda agree, but they do the "Not the same rewards" in the wrong way.

    You should be able to get all the same things if they're critical for progression, but at a reduced chance or quantity from the easier version. If you need to get stuff to refine the weapons, give it from both normal and master, but a better chance from master and other items only available there (or higher IL versions) that are not essential.
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    mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User

    Why is challenge seen as the most important thing - FUN should be the most important thing.

    ...

    My previous MMO was not a difficult game, but it was tremendous fun. People goofed off, there was a system for upping the difficulty with extra rewards if you wanted a challenge. Partially because of this there was no question of IL, and almost any party composition could do 90%+ of the content so that was another way of making it more difficult if you wanted to.

    That's a very interesting point. I fully agree, the player's fun should be the main motivation to create content. But I also see that it is not so easy to satisfy all of the very heterogeneous player base. However, with mod 14 I think the devs have found the solution and I hope this system will be expanded to end-game-content with the next mod(s): the barovian hunting system.

    Create a basic and not so hard to handle task for end-game-content and let the players add optional challenges that adds additional and worthwhile (!) rewards.

    For me, this solution is perfect. Everyone will get what they want, and the weaker players will finally be able to complete their end-game-content. Increasing the difficulty (using cards?) can lead to a level that almost no one can complete. Then finally, not only 1% of players will be satisfied, but the whole community. Very good idea!

    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
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    lingling#2268 lingling Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    > @nunya#5309 said:
    > I am worried we have too many here that are saying that the end game content is too hard and needs to be easier. I don't like this mindset since it would devalue the time and effort other players have put into the content. I want there to be hard areas and content worth my time to run. If you can't play well enough to get there or you expect to get their a week/month into the game I don't want any part of this game. If they do make a lower tiered version of the end game dungeons I would like them to be for zero rewards. People will abuse the rewards if they can get the same items for some easier extent of the dungeon. I want there to be something for both the early game players and end game players to have. The early game players have a lot of content to finish in the game as is right now. I have no issue for more mid game content with similar rewards as CN/ETOS. I just don't want that to be where the best items drop since you will see the end game players just farm that to ridiculous levels until everything put into that dungeon sells for next to nothing of what it does right now in the economy. Also, if you make it too easy then someone will build a bot to run the content like we saw when the random dungeon queue came out. Please keep it to where the end game is difficult for good players. As time passes power creep will allow everyone to do the content.
    >
    > No one here is saying that the best rewards should come from easier versions of the dungeons. In fact, I personally said that I don't care about the rewards at all. Make the rewards and difficulty on par with Castle Never (because getting salvage is always nice!). I just would like to experience the content and learn the dungeons. Eventually, I'll have the item level to run the harder versions of these dungeons (effectively what are the current versions of these dungeons) and, when I finally get there, I'll be able to contribute and not be completely clueless and a liability. My warlock is 13.4k item level and I've not even run Tomb of the Nine Gods yet because I feel like my item level is too low and I don't want to be a clueless noob that causes a wipe.

    Well stated. I agree with allowing everyone to experience the content...adding a tier selection to the dungeons would accomplish this and I've played other MMOs that Incorporated this idea and it worked well. It allows experienced players to drag less experienced players through content letting them learn/understand the mechanics involved with particular dungeons. With lower/easier tiers, comes less (or less chance of) rewards (or zero chance of the high-end game stuff. This idea reduces the issues with item level and at least allows all users to enjoy new content while letting elite players be elite.
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    deterrant#6687 deterrant Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    This game is not impossible to anyone who is willing to invest in it, takes time, but learning mechanics and content progression usually does. Below is some advice where people can start.

    You might wanna ask around what to do and how to get better gear and how to progress to get to barovia and its near BIS gear. And learn what it takes to progress in this game and how to progress faster.

    Getting skilled enough tho varies from person to person.

    The best people to know that are those players who have played this game for years, ask them how much time and effort they had to put in this game and how much of a grind it is to make it through the neverending end-game dungeon cycle.

    They provide us with guides and all the info we need to get better gear and get more efficient in the content progression, but you are the only one who can better your own skill.

    Dont play with IL, skill and mechanics are more important.

    This game is challenging with its end-game dungeons, people just have to deal with it.

    Do, wipe, learn, repeat until you can survive and clear the content, GG EZ.

    BTW getting that near BIS gear in Barovia u dont even need to run CR, its down to RNG drops and seals of the brave, i have already got my primal set to legendary and all armor pieces are IL 540, with relevant stats for my toon.

    Today i have been playing this game for 4 years and have invested 148 days of gameplay and im sitting at 14,5K IL with one main toon.




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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Frankly skill or IL, u need both. Skill wont get u anywhere if ur IL is too low and same goes the other way. But IL have the upper hand. There is a difference between dying to anything that touches u and being able to survive a few hits. Also, there is a $ reason behind it as well.

    Nevertheless, this game is beginning to feel rigid for me. Any end game content require u to be certain class, party composition & iL. Game mechanic could be learn through experience but its enough to isolate u from content if u don't have the 3 above. Its like there is only one way to do it. Buff, debuff and dps. There is nothing else u can do in a dungeon. Trap finding, instant kill, even CC in this game are not really emphasized. Even the buff are boring. There is only one type of Damage buff which is % damage buff. There is no specific buff that boost radiant damage, frost damage etc which could lead to various option for build and party composition. This game is too rigid and simple not only to D&D concept but frankly most MMO that I know. Its lack of variety are what makes it boring real fast IMO. Its just a 5 button to push, 2 button to click game with potential to be on mobile game. ( alrite there is more button to push if u count artifact and pots etc.. but whatever.. u get the point)
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    thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    I used to hate and detest FBI because it was "too hard" now I find it easy but still hate and detest it because most people leave :) The point to the OP is, keep at it and you will get into the End Game Dungeons eventually but by that time you might be a mod or two behind. So what, I would personally hate to be at the very end where I can already run everthing....what would I work for then? Not that Cryptic would even consider changing it but if they do read this, please leave the difficulty as is!

    But please change the damn Strahd fight, I am a damn Warlock not a GWF! Dont give me that icky sword grrr


    why would you argue this way instead of wanting master dungeons and a corresponding normal dungeon for people who aren't high enough il so they can learn the dungeon. I think N dungeons of the newest content should probably be somewhere in between cn and fbi in difficulty and they should leave Master dungeons alone.

    they used to do that and I'm really confused why they stopped. imo the last good mod was underdark.


    so repeating again for those who skim

    two (2) levels of same dungeon for each mod. so everyone can complete new content. STILL as hard as now.. but something not so hard for those who can't. not the same rewards for the two.. much like ndemo and mdemo..


    I kinda agree, but they do the "Not the same rewards" in the wrong way.

    You should be able to get all the same things if they're critical for progression, but at a reduced chance or quantity from the easier version. If you need to get stuff to refine the weapons, give it from both normal and master, but a better chance from master and other items only available there (or higher IL versions) that are not essential.
    yah I can see this point of view. at the same time the way they did it with ndemo made it so you could learn th emechanics and then even if it was a struggle it was possible to do on mdemo if you had a good vhdps and some good support. you can beat codg with a five man group so it's possible to have some fluff in your group if people can all stay up. most of the low ils can't because they don't get the chance to learn how. if they had an n version you'd see more guild runs with a variety of people. so it becomes more possible for people do the harder version before they're ready.

    I personally wouldn't have a problem with them having the weapon upgrade elements available from either type but keeping the money shots for the m version. I still some lesser progressional rewards should be available from n versions.


    TL;DR version:

    but imo the most important thing is that they have both an M and N version. so people can learn how to do it on the harder versions.
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