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Dear, Devs, about those Solo Players...
frogwalloper
Member Posts: 821 Arc User
- borrowing this portion from some other discussion that's had me thinking for a while:
quoting @scarabman
The difference between being in a guild with max-level boons and not being in a guild at all contributes to problems with our attempts to balance the level 70 experience. For players with very high item levels, the guild boons may not seem to be that big of a deal. However, for a relatively fresh level 70, the guild boons can account for up to a 15% DPS increase, 33-50% additional health or a big chunk of extra defense. That gap makes a big difference in the experience - big enough that we need to ask ourselves whether we assume players are in a guild or if they're running solo when adjusting difficulty.
….Since we can't guarantee a player is in a guild and we don't want to force anyone to join a guild...
It’s nice to know that the developers are thinking about solo players, because there are a dedicated number of us who for various reasons of our own will not ever join a guild. But I don't think most of us are looking for any earth shaking changes for our benefit. For myself I’m pretty much happy with the game as it is, and I think the devs have done a great job.
But since you are actively thinking about different options that will directly impact the game for soloists, I’m hoping you’ll be open to the perspective of those players. I’m also hoping that some of the other solo players in this community will share their viewpoints and ideas.
Boons
As far as guild boons go, I can only speak for myself, but I’ve got zero interest in them. I think the only area I haven’t been to yet is Chult, so maybe they’re needed there, I don’t know – but I haven’t needed those boons anywhere else. If you really think it’s important that solo players have boons, I’d much rather work for them. None of us have any problem with grinding for something. I highly doubt many of us would pay for temporary boons that lapse, or pay some random guildings for access to a jr. version of their boons - both of which have been mentioned.
Masterworks
Not having access to an Artisan does bother me. You said, “we don't want to force anyone to join a guild,” but this is one area where it certainly feels like the devs are trying to force us into getting guilded. Why else would it be walled off behind a stronghold?
Icing on the Cake (not at all expected, but may as well throw it out there):
Events
You know what would be nice? A little content just for us.
A Zone of Our Own
It would also be neat to have a place where we can hang our hats – maybe even rub elbows with like-minded individuals on the super rare occasions when we feel like it, or need to party up for things without needing to worry about not having fake IL. Preferably a swamp with rain and thunder and spring peepers – but that’s just my preference. The bottom of Broken Tower Tavern's a good spot too, actually.
A Title
I don’t know how other solo players feel, but I used to kind of want one just so people knew I wasn’t a bot, though I actually really don’t like them. Any more I find it’s pretty obvious you’re not a bot if you’re active or say “hey” at the beginning, and “thanks” at the end – or just don't get stuck on that rock over there, you know?
- just some thoughts, thanks
quoting @scarabman
The difference between being in a guild with max-level boons and not being in a guild at all contributes to problems with our attempts to balance the level 70 experience. For players with very high item levels, the guild boons may not seem to be that big of a deal. However, for a relatively fresh level 70, the guild boons can account for up to a 15% DPS increase, 33-50% additional health or a big chunk of extra defense. That gap makes a big difference in the experience - big enough that we need to ask ourselves whether we assume players are in a guild or if they're running solo when adjusting difficulty.
….Since we can't guarantee a player is in a guild and we don't want to force anyone to join a guild...
It’s nice to know that the developers are thinking about solo players, because there are a dedicated number of us who for various reasons of our own will not ever join a guild. But I don't think most of us are looking for any earth shaking changes for our benefit. For myself I’m pretty much happy with the game as it is, and I think the devs have done a great job.
But since you are actively thinking about different options that will directly impact the game for soloists, I’m hoping you’ll be open to the perspective of those players. I’m also hoping that some of the other solo players in this community will share their viewpoints and ideas.
Boons
As far as guild boons go, I can only speak for myself, but I’ve got zero interest in them. I think the only area I haven’t been to yet is Chult, so maybe they’re needed there, I don’t know – but I haven’t needed those boons anywhere else. If you really think it’s important that solo players have boons, I’d much rather work for them. None of us have any problem with grinding for something. I highly doubt many of us would pay for temporary boons that lapse, or pay some random guildings for access to a jr. version of their boons - both of which have been mentioned.
Masterworks
Not having access to an Artisan does bother me. You said, “we don't want to force anyone to join a guild,” but this is one area where it certainly feels like the devs are trying to force us into getting guilded. Why else would it be walled off behind a stronghold?
Icing on the Cake (not at all expected, but may as well throw it out there):
Events
You know what would be nice? A little content just for us.
A Zone of Our Own
It would also be neat to have a place where we can hang our hats – maybe even rub elbows with like-minded individuals on the super rare occasions when we feel like it, or need to party up for things without needing to worry about not having fake IL. Preferably a swamp with rain and thunder and spring peepers – but that’s just my preference. The bottom of Broken Tower Tavern's a good spot too, actually.
A Title
I don’t know how other solo players feel, but I used to kind of want one just so people knew I wasn’t a bot, though I actually really don’t like them. Any more I find it’s pretty obvious you’re not a bot if you’re active or say “hey” at the beginning, and “thanks” at the end – or just don't get stuck on that rock over there, you know?
- just some thoughts, thanks
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Comments
Zone of Our Own/Place to hang a hat: Moonstone Mask
A Title: exactly how are they supposed to differentiate regular players from bots?
Using that logic, I guess we don't need Strongholds then, either. The main Moonstone Mask is a zone for everyone. Stronghold is a zone for the guildings. Solo players don't have a place for solo players. But I'm not seriously asking for this. As I said, "icing on the cake, and not at all expected." simply tossing up an idea is all.
I have no idea. I don't like titles anyway. I only listed it for the sake of completeness.
Edit: You know what it was? A while back I read something where someone implied that if that other player isn't in a guild, then it's probably a bot. I guess that stuck with me.
That said, yeah, I'd love nothing more than to grind away for something that would belong to me, much less so for renting.
Masterworks: I was initially sore over Masterworks being locked behind strongholds, but then I saw how they worked out time and again and said screw it, they can have'em. In principle, they *should* be solo activities, but I totally don't care anymore. I wouldn't touch Masterworks. I'm glad I was spared that money trap.
Events, Zones, Titles: These all seem impractical and/or pointless to me. The only exception I'd like to see is personal housing, but that would be for everyone. There isn't any kind of title or tag or whatever that a bot couldn't also get, so attempts to differentiate solo players from bots by some tag is impossible.
I've seen nonsense like that before too, so I get where you're coming from. People can be really stupid, and it can bug you sometimes. During festivals I've seen people claim that anyone not in a guild is a gift scammer. The best thing to do is find people who say things like that in-game (if you're not already in-game) and put them on ignore. That way, you never have to listen to their nonsense while you're playing. Hopefully you won't get roped into a party with them either, but if you do, at least they can't pollute your chat.
You want like minded individuals with a place to hang their hats? Hmm let me think... maybe there is such place already? Oh right... It's what the bloody guild is...
So let me get this straight, you don't want a guild, but you ask for it...
And content? All those damn zones and dailies are content just for you... If it was for me it was all group content, but it's not... We get a dungeon, or a huge whiny big HAMSTER baby to kill, per mod, you get the dailies, weeklies, and all the quests. Rejoice.
And as I've pointed out, foundry is full of practically solo content.
But you didn't even start that zone, so what more content you ask for ?
And as a solo player you can hardly afford MW, which will cost you about 30mil AD? In best scenario to get into, and immense amount currencies to get the materials and maps.
So, I'm sorry, but I have no idea what this thread is about, sounds to me like something in between being different just for the sake of being different, to "I want the benefits of X without the inconvenience of Y" You want the benefits of a guild, well.. you know how to get those...
You want to play solo, cool. it's your right, those are the disadvantages and advantages (no idea what those are) of doing so. I really don't understand why people choose to play MMO as solo, honestly, it's boring, the graphics subpar as compared to modern solo games, there is not story like in the better story driven games. It's repeatable and dull, there are so many better options...most people I know are only here for the company, and unfortunately, much less so for the game... But more so ask for some special treatment...
I just don't get it.
What events are not available to solo players? I guess I do not get this point.
Titles are gained from running most content. Just chose one that suits you.
As far as titles go, lone wolf, the one, highlander, antisocial, recluse, mercanery, why not it’s fun!
With master crafting I can see how that could disappointing if you a dedicated completionst but I don’t see the AH prices being an obstacle in obtaining them if you like to grind, again which is basically the point of the game the getting ad isn’t really an obstacle unless you new but then you aren’t likely to know how to really get ad in large amounts anyways.
A separate zone seems silly but that’s just me
Just my thoughts, an alternative boon system seems fun and would likely remove balancing issues, but maybe it would be to much to implement coding is not an area I can speak to.
Someone can be an extreme introvert, and still enjoy people and playing games with people - just in smaller doses, and on their own terms. Quite often, it's not so much people introverts dislike as it is situations involving people. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but there's a reason you "don't understand," and you "don't get it." You think very differently then they do. I don't know why you see it that way. One of the developers mentioned that they have been thinking about solo players as they plan. As a solo player, I wanted to let them know what some solo players are thinking, rather than just have guild members speak for us. I offered some suggestions, and asked what other solo players thought. Only two of my suggestions were serious, the rest - I thought - were notably more lighthearted.
First of all, I find it ironic that the one accusing other players of asking for special treatment is the one who gets special treatment from being in a guild.
Secondly, I don't believe either of my two serious points are asking for special treatment. Having the artisan be readily available to everyone just makes sense to me. If it's a bad idea or unfair to guild members, I'll retract it, but nobody's made that case yet. And stating very clearly that I personally don't feel the need for guild boons, or if they were made available would prefer grinding for them - is certainly not asking for special treatment.
As you've said, combination of like minded individuals that want the solo expiriance. One of those actually is called "The SOLO alliance" (or something like that) on PC. To be more correct, the dev response was about catch up mechanism and not specifically solo players. While a solo player can benefit from such mechanism those are not exactly the same.
What Irony here? We are in a Massive Multiplayer Game. The whole premise is the multiple player and their interaction. In some way it's like coming to a BBQ restaurant and asking for a Sushi.. Indeed if we take the rest as not actual requests, which, I'm sorry, but I understood Icing on the cake as something additional that is great to have and not a joke, it is a special request, but it has wider audience, including the lower than rank 10 or 12 (I don't remember after the changes) guilds.
But then what the point of it? You don't have the access to the GMs, or the Atelier, and the rest of the NPCs, and it takes millions upon million of AD to unlock.
I think you have a misconception here. MW is either an extremely costly investment, or a group effort where people help a MW to unlock and then make things for materials for the guild.
It's not something a casual player should go into. More so, if your example is the Titan steel, I don't think you have any benefit from it. It was/is a group oriented set, as the bonus is for the group, but without the group...
In a sense yes, but this is the part I don't understand, what did you expect from a multiplayer game?
As far a "special treatment" for being in a guild, why not? Many things IRL are the same way.
The only "special treatment" I'm seriously asking for is to have an Artisan out in the open with tasks scaled to an individual level - roughly equivalent to the average guild member's contribution - or higher. I don't mind. It's understandable if they want to keep the guild perks attractive.
That and what I already said about the boons are all I really care about.
I'm still hoping to hear from some more solo players.
Yeah, in principle, locking Masterworks behind guilds makes little sense, but if you just want a piece of MW gear or 3, buy them off the AH. You'd be much further ahead financially. I find myself frequently disliking people as well!
This is a very good point and gets at the heart of why we often end up talking past each other on this topic. Introverts and extroverts can often butt heads in all aspects of life. Introverts can seem cold and unfriendly, even suspicious, to some extroverts. Extroverts can likewise come across as nosy, pushy, and generally bothersome to some introverts. In our society (speaking from a U.S. perspective), extroversion is often seen as a virtue while introversion is seen as a weakness, even a disorder to some. Often in the workplace, extroverts are seen as the team players that make the world go round, while introverts (who are busy ACTUALLY making the world go round when they can get a moments peace) are seen as problematic, even toxic to the work environment.
Back to the game, for some people, interacting is the point of the game and the fact they get to play a game while doing it is just bonus/optional. For others, the game is the point of the game, and interaction is just bonus/optional. Then there are people in between and people on the far edges. If you're coming from a far edge though, someone on the other edge is going to be nigh incomprehensible to you.
I'm on one edge, but have gone to great lengths to try and understand and sympathize with the other side. That's why I've always been restrained about not wanting to take anything from them, but just trying to close at least some of that mechanical gap. I have to admit that the incredibly strong resistance is what I can't hardly wrap my head around. I find myself having to suppress my own nefarious assumptions about that behavior.
A further topic is the myriad other issues that can cause someone to have a low trust/comfort level intertwining themselves with others like trust issues, boundary issues, past betrayals, anxiety, social anxiety, autism spectrum, self-consciousness, fear of loss, problems with authority, etcetera and so forth. Some of these can ebb and flow over time, some slowly change, and some are simply fixed in place. You can't force people into a situation they're uncomfortable with, they'll just leave and rightfully so. The question to ask is do you want those people to just take a hike, or find a way to coexist on equal terms?
Many times a day I see in PE "Looking for 4 more to start a guild, once started you can leave" If you want to do something like that shoot me a PM in game and I'll be 1 of the 4 you'll need to do so.
@reg1981
That way you can (eventually) get all the benefits of being in a guild, and don't have to interact with others.
In fact, there are guilds that are like that...guilds where you are not required to interact with others or participate in guild activities. You may be expected to contribute to the guild coffers, but you can be totally ignore the social aspect if you want.
As for Masterwork - yes, it is tied to the guilds. You need the guild quest givers, you buy the resource maps for GMs, and you need the guild vendors to buy various materials (unless you want to buy them at inflated prices on the AH).
Is it fair to block people from being guildless masterwork crafters? Maybe not, but Masterwork was partly designed as a team effort. Yes, you can max all Masterwork Professions on a single character, but it is faster for a group of friends to work together, just swapping resources and components around as needed - just the kind of activity suitable for a guild.
Regarding guild boons - I have always found it silly that PvP (both PvP campaign boons and Guild PvP structure bonus) contributes to IL, as IL is really only relevant for PvE, but the other guild boons are very much relevant - give a significant stat and IL boost.
Yes, they give a definite advantage to those in a GH 20 guild with all structures maxed, but there are a few things to keep in mind:
Our guild has absolutely no contribution or participation requirements whatsoever. We have a lot of casual players that come and go, but we have a core group that has worked hard this past year and we are currently upgrading to GH17, and we have the Explorers Guild boon which is pretty much a must if you want to do Masterwork professions. You could probably find a similar guild on PS4.
As far as Masterwork goes, a lot of people start it and then when they find out how ridiculous it is they drop it a few weeks later and never look back. I've worked on it very casually since the Winter Event when I received a Forgehammer. The problem with it is you need stuff from multiple professions to progress in just one, so you either have to level all the crafts equally, or trade with other players, or just buy what you need off the AH for millions of AD.
The only thing that I feel I miss out on from not being guilded - apart from the social aspect is the option to pursue Masterwork professions. Would be nice to have something extra to work towards, as all I really do is my dailies and weeklies.
Having said that, if I really want a Masterwork item, I'll siimply save up my AD and buy it. Although, with the rate items are superceded by better ones in this game, you may as well save up for 1-2 expansions and upgrade.