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Dear, Devs, about those Solo Players...

frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
edited April 2018 in PvE Discussion
- borrowing this portion from some other discussion that's had me thinking for a while:

quoting @scarabman
The difference between being in a guild with max-level boons and not being in a guild at all contributes to problems with our attempts to balance the level 70 experience. For players with very high item levels, the guild boons may not seem to be that big of a deal. However, for a relatively fresh level 70, the guild boons can account for up to a 15% DPS increase, 33-50% additional health or a big chunk of extra defense. That gap makes a big difference in the experience - big enough that we need to ask ourselves whether we assume players are in a guild or if they're running solo when adjusting difficulty.

….Since we can't guarantee a player is in a guild and we don't want to force anyone to join a guild...


It’s nice to know that the developers are thinking about solo players, because there are a dedicated number of us who for various reasons of our own will not ever join a guild. But I don't think most of us are looking for any earth shaking changes for our benefit. For myself I’m pretty much happy with the game as it is, and I think the devs have done a great job.

But since you are actively thinking about different options that will directly impact the game for soloists, I’m hoping you’ll be open to the perspective of those players. I’m also hoping that some of the other solo players in this community will share their viewpoints and ideas.

Boons
As far as guild boons go, I can only speak for myself, but I’ve got zero interest in them. I think the only area I haven’t been to yet is Chult, so maybe they’re needed there, I don’t know – but I haven’t needed those boons anywhere else. If you really think it’s important that solo players have boons, I’d much rather work for them. None of us have any problem with grinding for something. I highly doubt many of us would pay for temporary boons that lapse, or pay some random guildings for access to a jr. version of their boons - both of which have been mentioned.

Masterworks
Not having access to an Artisan does bother me. You said, “we don't want to force anyone to join a guild,” but this is one area where it certainly feels like the devs are trying to force us into getting guilded. Why else would it be walled off behind a stronghold?

Icing on the Cake (not at all expected, but may as well throw it out there):
Events
You know what would be nice? A little content just for us.

A Zone of Our Own
It would also be neat to have a place where we can hang our hats – maybe even rub elbows with like-minded individuals on the super rare occasions when we feel like it, or need to party up for things without needing to worry about not having fake IL. Preferably a swamp with rain and thunder and spring peepers – but that’s just my preference. The bottom of Broken Tower Tavern's a good spot too, actually.

A Title
I don’t know how other solo players feel, but I used to kind of want one just so people knew I wasn’t a bot, though I actually really don’t like them. Any more I find it’s pretty obvious you’re not a bot if you’re active or say “hey” at the beginning, and “thanks” at the end – or just don't get stuck on that rock over there, you know?

- just some thoughts, thanks

Comments

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,238Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Masterwork: Guild has a wide-open portcullis except during a siege event.

    Zone of Our Own/Place to hang a hat: Moonstone Mask

    A Title: exactly how are they supposed to differentiate regular players from bots?
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    edited April 2018
    greywynd said:

    Masterwork: Guild has a wide-open portcullis except during a siege event.

    My point is - why is this even a guild thing? And can random players simply walk into a Guild?
    greywynd said:

    Zone of Our Own/Place to hang a hat: Moonstone Mask

    Using that logic, I guess we don't need Strongholds then, either. The main Moonstone Mask is a zone for everyone. Stronghold is a zone for the guildings. Solo players don't have a place for solo players. But I'm not seriously asking for this. As I said, "icing on the cake, and not at all expected." simply tossing up an idea is all.
    greywynd said:


    A Title: exactly how are they supposed to differentiate regular players from bots?

    I have no idea. I don't like titles anyway. I only listed it for the sake of completeness.

    Edit: You know what it was? A while back I read something where someone implied that if that other player isn't in a guild, then it's probably a bot. I guess that stuck with me.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 2018
    Boons: I take it you haven't ran any of the newer dungeons yet? Any interest in PvP? Those are really the only places the boons are relevant. For campaign zones, they're utterly unnecessary. For the newest dungeons, they're not technically needed either if you are nearing best-in-slot or have a bunch of people that will happily carry you through them. Otherwise, they can make the difference between whether anyone else will even let you play or not because people have IL shoved *expletives deleted*. If you have no interest in newer dungeons, trials, or PvP though, SH Boons can be safely ignored.

    That said, yeah, I'd love nothing more than to grind away for something that would belong to me, much less so for renting.

    Masterworks: I was initially sore over Masterworks being locked behind strongholds, but then I saw how they worked out time and again and said screw it, they can have'em. In principle, they *should* be solo activities, but I totally don't care anymore. I wouldn't touch Masterworks. I'm glad I was spared that money trap.

    Events, Zones, Titles: These all seem impractical and/or pointless to me. The only exception I'd like to see is personal housing, but that would be for everyone.

    Edit: You know what it was? A while back I read something where someone implied that if that other player isn't in a guild, then it's probably a bot. I guess that stuck with me.

    There isn't any kind of title or tag or whatever that a bot couldn't also get, so attempts to differentiate solo players from bots by some tag is impossible.

    I've seen nonsense like that before too, so I get where you're coming from. People can be really stupid, and it can bug you sometimes. During festivals I've seen people claim that anyone not in a guild is a gift scammer. The best thing to do is find people who say things like that in-game (if you're not already in-game) and put them on ignore. That way, you never have to listen to their nonsense while you're playing. Hopefully you won't get roped into a party with them either, but if you do, at least they can't pollute your chat.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,928Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 2018
    What is a Zone for solo players? You are playing alone, close the game, and you are alone. You want to adventure totally alone? there is foundry.

    You want like minded individuals with a place to hang their hats? Hmm let me think... maybe there is such place already? Oh right... It's what the bloody guild is...

    So let me get this straight, you don't want a guild, but you ask for it...


    And content? All those damn zones and dailies are content just for you... If it was for me it was all group content, but it's not... We get a dungeon, or a huge whiny big HAMSTER baby to kill, per mod, you get the dailies, weeklies, and all the quests. Rejoice.
    And as I've pointed out, foundry is full of practically solo content.
    But you didn't even start that zone, so what more content you ask for ?
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    edited April 2018
    micky1p00 said:

    What is a Zone for solo players? You are playing alone, close the game, and you are alone. You want to adventure totally alone? there is foundry...foundry is full of practically solo content.

    PS4
    micky1p00 said:

    You want like minded individuals with a place to hang their hats? Hmm let me think... maybe there is such place already? Oh right... It's what the bloody guild is...So let me get this straight, you don't want a guild, but you ask for it...

    "Icing on the cake, not really expected," and only included as a thought. I know it's impractical. And silly, I know. I've already said that three times now. But fyi, it's not even remotely the same as a guild. Essentially, it's the exact opposite. I started typing up an explanation, but you know, I just don't feel like it, and it doesn't matter anyway, 'cause it's hardly a key point.
    micky1p00 said:

    But you didn't even start that zone, so what more content you ask for ?

    So this is the fourth time, "Icing on the cake, not really expected," and only included as a thought. Repetition surely is the spice of life for some people! :smile: Right. I'm not asking for any more content.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,928Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 2018

    micky1p00 said:

    What is a Zone for solo players? You are playing alone, close the game, and you are alone. You want to adventure totally alone? there is foundry...foundry is full of practically solo content.

    PS4
    micky1p00 said:

    You want like minded individuals with a place to hang their hats? Hmm let me think... maybe there is such place already? Oh right... It's what the bloody guild is...So let me get this straight, you don't want a guild, but you ask for it...

    "Icing on the cake, not really expected," and only included as a thought. I know it's impractical. And silly, I know. I've already said that three times now. But fyi, it's not even remotely the same as a guild. Essentially, it's the exact opposite. I started typing up an explanation, but you know, I just don't feel like it, and it doesn't matter anyway, 'cause it's hardly a key point.
    micky1p00 said:

    But you didn't even start that zone, so what more content you ask for ?

    So this is the fourth time, "Icing on the cake, not really expected," and only included as a thought. Repetition surely is the spice of life for some people! :smile: Right. I'm not asking for any more content.
    So, you don't care for the boons, you don't actually care about the content nor started the latest content, You don't really want the zone, nor title.
    And as a solo player you can hardly afford MW, which will cost you about 30mil AD? In best scenario to get into, and immense amount currencies to get the materials and maps.

    So, I'm sorry, but I have no idea what this thread is about, sounds to me like something in between being different just for the sake of being different, to "I want the benefits of X without the inconvenience of Y" You want the benefits of a guild, well.. you know how to get those...
    You want to play solo, cool. it's your right, those are the disadvantages and advantages (no idea what those are) of doing so. I really don't understand why people choose to play MMO as solo, honestly, it's boring, the graphics subpar as compared to modern solo games, there is not story like in the better story driven games. It's repeatable and dull, there are so many better options...most people I know are only here for the company, and unfortunately, much less so for the game... But more so ask for some special treatment...
    I just don't get it.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    pterias said:

    Boons: I take it you haven't ran any of the newer dungeons yet? Any interest in PvP? Those are really the only places the boons are relevant.

    Sorry, I should have been more clear, but, yeah I was only referring to main content pve, since that seemed to be what the developer in question was referring to. Thank you for the detailed responses. They make a lot of sense.
    pterias said:


    Masterworks: I was initially sore over Masterworks being locked behind strongholds, but then I saw how they worked out time and again and said screw it, they can have'em. In principle, they *should* be solo activities, but I totally don't care anymore. I wouldn't touch Masterworks. I'm glad I was spared that money trap.

    So, question for you here. I've got at least one character, an OP, that I would like to equip with a Titansteel weapon. In the AH, they sell for just over half a million. I don't have any choice but to buy it, since solo players aren't allow to craft them, but it's probably a lot cheaper to make, right? Anyway, I just don't get the reasoning behind setting the masterworks aside just for guilds, except to put pressure on solo players to join a guild. It is one of the occasional reasons why longterm solo players crack and get guilded, just to get those professions to Level 30, then they're out of there.
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Posts: 1,004Member Arc User
    edited April 2018
    You do realize that the guild boons are not free? Members spend time (sometimes a lot of it) running content to earn materials to build their guild. Some members even put real money into the effort by buying items from the Zen Market to speed up the process.

    What events are not available to solo players? I guess I do not get this point.

    Titles are gained from running most content. Just chose one that suits you.

  • mrpants#2668 mrpants Posts: 5Member Arc User
    I’m on PS4, my main is in a guild but none of my alts are. I like the idea of a guildless boon system, why not it’s another area to grind, after all the grind is actually the whole point of the game why not give solo players a separate boon system to grind tied to completing story arcs or various trophies earned.

    As far as titles go, lone wolf, the one, highlander, antisocial, recluse, mercanery, why not it’s fun!

    With master crafting I can see how that could disappointing if you a dedicated completionst but I don’t see the AH prices being an obstacle in obtaining them if you like to grind, again which is basically the point of the game the getting ad isn’t really an obstacle unless you new but then you aren’t likely to know how to really get ad in large amounts anyways.

    A separate zone seems silly but that’s just me

    Just my thoughts, an alternative boon system seems fun and would likely remove balancing issues, but maybe it would be to much to implement coding is not an area I can speak to.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    You want to play solo, cool. it's your right, those are the disadvantages and advantages (no idea what those are) of doing so. I really don't understand why people choose to play MMO as solo, honestly, it's boring, the graphics subpar as compared to modern solo games, there is not story like in the better story driven games. It's repeatable and dull, there are so many better options...most people I know are only here for the company, and unfortunately, much less so for the game... But more so ask for some special treatment...
    I just don't get it.

    There are many reasons why some players prefer to play solo even in an MMO. At the most basic level, it may just come down to the simple fact that some people are extroverts, and some people are introverts. They rarely approach things the same way.

    Someone can be an extreme introvert, and still enjoy people and playing games with people - just in smaller doses, and on their own terms. Quite often, it's not so much people introverts dislike as it is situations involving people. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but there's a reason you "don't understand," and you "don't get it." You think very differently then they do.
    micky1p00 said:

    ... But more so ask for some special treatment... I just don't get it.

    I don't know why you see it that way. One of the developers mentioned that they have been thinking about solo players as they plan. As a solo player, I wanted to let them know what some solo players are thinking, rather than just have guild members speak for us. I offered some suggestions, and asked what other solo players thought. Only two of my suggestions were serious, the rest - I thought - were notably more lighthearted.

    First of all, I find it ironic that the one accusing other players of asking for special treatment is the one who gets special treatment from being in a guild.

    Secondly, I don't believe either of my two serious points are asking for special treatment. Having the artisan be readily available to everyone just makes sense to me. If it's a bad idea or unfair to guild members, I'll retract it, but nobody's made that case yet. And stating very clearly that I personally don't feel the need for guild boons, or if they were made available would prefer grinding for them - is certainly not asking for special treatment.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    edited April 2018

    As far as titles go, lone wolf, the one, highlander, antisocial, recluse, mercanery, why not it’s fun!

    I like those! They are fun to think about - even if separate coding identifying someone as not being in a guild would be unnecessarily complex.

    With master crafting I can see how that could disappointing if you a dedicated completionst but I don’t see the AH prices being an obstacle in obtaining them if you like to grind, again which is basically the point of the game the getting ad isn’t really an obstacle unless you new but then you aren’t likely to know how to really get ad in large amounts anyways.

    That's a really fair point about the AH prices. As someone else pointed out, the Artisan is obviously tuned for guild numbers at the moment. I suppose what it really comes down to for me is that initial statement in which the developer claimed they don't want to force players to join a guild: whereas I see megaboons and special events as incentives, taking a key aspect of the game such as professions and placing portions of it squarely in the stronghold certainly does feel like I'm being railroaded in order to get it.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,928Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    micky1p00 said:


    You want to play solo, cool. it's your right, those are the disadvantages and advantages (no idea what those are) of doing so. I really don't understand why people choose to play MMO as solo, honestly, it's boring, the graphics subpar as compared to modern solo games, there is not story like in the better story driven games. It's repeatable and dull, there are so many better options...most people I know are only here for the company, and unfortunately, much less so for the game... But more so ask for some special treatment...
    I just don't get it.

    There are many reasons why some players prefer to play solo even in an MMO. At the most basic level, it may just come down to the simple fact that some people are extroverts, and some people are introverts. They rarely approach things the same way.

    Someone can be an extreme introvert, and still enjoy people and playing games with people - just in smaller doses, and on their own terms. Quite often, it's not so much people introverts dislike as it is situations involving people. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but there's a reason you "don't understand," and you "don't get it." You think very differently then they do.
    That's not a reason to not join a guild, as there are guild that specifically require no communication, or participation. People donate what they do and get the benefits of that they do.
    As you've said, combination of like minded individuals that want the solo expiriance. One of those actually is called "The SOLO alliance" (or something like that) on PC.


    micky1p00 said:

    ... But more so ask for some special treatment... I just don't get it.

    I don't know why you see it that way. One of the developers mentioned that they have been thinking about solo players as they plan. As a solo player, I wanted to let them know what some solo players are thinking, rather than just have guild members speak for us. I offered some suggestions, and asked what other solo players thought. Only two of my suggestions were serious, the rest - I thought - were notably more lighthearted.

    First of all, I find it ironic that the one accusing other players of asking for special treatment is the one who gets special treatment from being in a guild.

    To be more correct, the dev response was about catch up mechanism and not specifically solo players. While a solo player can benefit from such mechanism those are not exactly the same.

    What Irony here? We are in a Massive Multiplayer Game. The whole premise is the multiple player and their interaction. In some way it's like coming to a BBQ restaurant and asking for a Sushi..


    Secondly, I don't believe either of my two serious points are asking for special treatment. Having the artisan be readily available to everyone just makes sense to me. If it's a bad idea or unfair to guild members, I'll retract it, but nobody's made that case yet. And stating very clearly that I personally don't feel the need for guild boons, or if they were made available would prefer grinding for them - is certainly not asking for special treatment.

    Indeed if we take the rest as not actual requests, which, I'm sorry, but I understood Icing on the cake as something additional that is great to have and not a joke, it is a special request, but it has wider audience, including the lower than rank 10 or 12 (I don't remember after the changes) guilds.
    But then what the point of it? You don't have the access to the GMs, or the Atelier, and the rest of the NPCs, and it takes millions upon million of AD to unlock.
    I think you have a misconception here. MW is either an extremely costly investment, or a group effort where people help a MW to unlock and then make things for materials for the guild.
    It's not something a casual player should go into. More so, if your example is the Titan steel, I don't think you have any benefit from it. It was/is a group oriented set, as the bonus is for the group, but without the group...
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,928Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    As far as titles go, lone wolf, the one, highlander, antisocial, recluse, mercanery, why not it’s fun!

    I like those! They are fun to think about - even if separate coding identifying someone as not being in a guild would be unnecessarily complex.

    With master crafting I can see how that could disappointing if you a dedicated completionst but I don’t see the AH prices being an obstacle in obtaining them if you like to grind, again which is basically the point of the game the getting ad isn’t really an obstacle unless you new but then you aren’t likely to know how to really get ad in large amounts anyways.

    That's a really fair point about the AH prices. As someone else pointed out, the Artisan is obviously tuned for guild numbers at the moment. I suppose what it really comes down to for me is that initial statement in which the developer claimed they don't want to force players to join a guild: whereas I see megaboons and special events as incentives, taking a key aspect of the game such as professions and placing portions of it squarely in the stronghold certainly does feel like I'm being railroaded in order to get it.
    And some of the best gear comes from dungeons, more so in the past, but still now, so are you railroaded towards group content?
    In a sense yes, but this is the part I don't understand, what did you expect from a multiplayer game?
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    @micky1p00 lol - now we're just quibbling for the sake of quibbling. I'm not even sure what we're talking about at this point. BBQ sushi? Yes, please. Unagi Kabayaki is one of the best things ever.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,238Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    You do realize that the guild boons are not free? Members spend time (sometimes a lot of it) running content to earn materials to build their guild. Some members even put real money into the effort by buying items from the Zen Market to speed up the process.

    What events are not available to solo players? I guess I do not get this point.

    Titles are gained from running most content. Just chose one that suits you.

    As far as I know the siege event is guild only since the quest-giver is the Master of Coin.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Posts: 1,004Member Arc User
    edited April 2018
    greywynd said:

    You do realize that the guild boons are not free? Members spend time (sometimes a lot of it) running content to earn materials to build their guild. Some members even put real money into the effort by buying items from the Zen Market to speed up the process.

    What events are not available to solo players? I guess I do not get this point.

    Titles are gained from running most content. Just chose one that suits you.

    As far as I know the siege event is guild only since the quest-giver is the Master of Coin.
    If you are talking about the Stronghold Siege, that's the point. It's Alliance vs Alliance.

    As far a "special treatment" for being in a guild, why not? Many things IRL are the same way.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,238Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    If you are talking about the Stronghold Siege, that's the point. It's Alliance vs Alliance.

    As far a "special treatment" for being in a guild, why not? Many things IRL are the same way.

    Ours is usually only our Alliance.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    edited April 2018
    Dragonflight's a guild thing too, isn't it? I don't know. I don't really care about the guild events. Or solo events for that matter.

    The only "special treatment" I'm seriously asking for is to have an Artisan out in the open with tasks scaled to an individual level - roughly equivalent to the average guild member's contribution - or higher. I don't mind. It's understandable if they want to keep the guild perks attractive.

    That and what I already said about the boons are all I really care about.

    I'm still hoping to hear from some more solo players.
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Posts: 1,004Member Arc User
    Artisans are not free to guilds. Guilds have to progress to a certain point in guild level.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    pterias said:


    Masterworks: I was initially sore over Masterworks being locked behind strongholds, but then I saw how they worked out time and again and said screw it, they can have'em. In principle, they *should* be solo activities, but I totally don't care anymore. I wouldn't touch Masterworks. I'm glad I was spared that money trap.

    So, question for you here. I've got at least one character, an OP, that I would like to equip with a Titansteel weapon. In the AH, they sell for just over half a million. I don't have any choice but to buy it, since solo players aren't allow to craft them, but it's probably a lot cheaper to make, right? Anyway, I just don't get the reasoning behind setting the masterworks aside just for guilds, except to put pressure on solo players to join a guild. It is one of the occasional reasons why longterm solo players crack and get guilded, just to get those professions to Level 30, then they're out of there.
    Masterworks cost a LOT of AD to get set up. That specific piece of gear probably cost less to make than it's AH price, but to be able to make that item, the seller probably spent 10s of millions of AD building up professions and obtaining crafting gear, getting set up just to be able to make that piece of gear.

    Yeah, in principle, locking Masterworks behind guilds makes little sense, but if you just want a piece of MW gear or 3, buy them off the AH. You'd be much further ahead financially.

    micky1p00 said:


    You want to play solo, cool. it's your right, those are the disadvantages and advantages (no idea what those are) of doing so. I really don't understand why people choose to play MMO as solo, honestly, it's boring, the graphics subpar as compared to modern solo games, there is not story like in the better story driven games. It's repeatable and dull, there are so many better options...most people I know are only here for the company, and unfortunately, much less so for the game... But more so ask for some special treatment...
    I just don't get it.

    There are many reasons why some players prefer to play solo even in an MMO. At the most basic level, it may just come down to the simple fact that some people are extroverts, and some people are introverts. They rarely approach things the same way.

    Someone can be an extreme introvert, and still enjoy people and playing games with people - just in smaller doses, and on their own terms. Quite often, it's not so much people introverts dislike as it is situations involving people. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but there's a reason you "don't understand," and you "don't get it." You think very differently then they do.
    I find myself frequently disliking people as well! :lol:

    This is a very good point and gets at the heart of why we often end up talking past each other on this topic. Introverts and extroverts can often butt heads in all aspects of life. Introverts can seem cold and unfriendly, even suspicious, to some extroverts. Extroverts can likewise come across as nosy, pushy, and generally bothersome to some introverts. In our society (speaking from a U.S. perspective), extroversion is often seen as a virtue while introversion is seen as a weakness, even a disorder to some. Often in the workplace, extroverts are seen as the team players that make the world go round, while introverts (who are busy ACTUALLY making the world go round when they can get a moments peace) are seen as problematic, even toxic to the work environment.

    Back to the game, for some people, interacting is the point of the game and the fact they get to play a game while doing it is just bonus/optional. For others, the game is the point of the game, and interaction is just bonus/optional. Then there are people in between and people on the far edges. If you're coming from a far edge though, someone on the other edge is going to be nigh incomprehensible to you.

    I'm on one edge, but have gone to great lengths to try and understand and sympathize with the other side. That's why I've always been restrained about not wanting to take anything from them, but just trying to close at least some of that mechanical gap. I have to admit that the incredibly strong resistance is what I can't hardly wrap my head around. I find myself having to suppress my own nefarious assumptions about that behavior.

    A further topic is the myriad other issues that can cause someone to have a low trust/comfort level intertwining themselves with others like trust issues, boundary issues, past betrayals, anxiety, social anxiety, autism spectrum, self-consciousness, fear of loss, problems with authority, etcetera and so forth. Some of these can ebb and flow over time, some slowly change, and some are simply fixed in place. You can't force people into a situation they're uncomfortable with, they'll just leave and rightfully so. The question to ask is do you want those people to just take a hike, or find a way to coexist on equal terms?
  • reg1981reg1981 Posts: 864Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    You do realize you can start a guild of your own and not invite anyone right? Then you have a place to hang your hat, you can solo grind your way to the artisan, and more...

    Many times a day I see in PE "Looking for 4 more to start a guild, once started you can leave" If you want to do something like that shoot me a PM in game and I'll be 1 of the 4 you'll need to do so.

    @reg1981
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,941Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Just form a guild - "The Antisocial Alliance", where people may contribute to the coffers for their own benefits, but are not expected or even allowed to interact with other guild members - disable the guild/alliance chat channels.

    That way you can (eventually) get all the benefits of being in a guild, and don't have to interact with others.

    In fact, there are guilds that are like that...guilds where you are not required to interact with others or participate in guild activities. You may be expected to contribute to the guild coffers, but you can be totally ignore the social aspect if you want.

    As for Masterwork - yes, it is tied to the guilds. You need the guild quest givers, you buy the resource maps for GMs, and you need the guild vendors to buy various materials (unless you want to buy them at inflated prices on the AH).

    Is it fair to block people from being guildless masterwork crafters? Maybe not, but Masterwork was partly designed as a team effort. Yes, you can max all Masterwork Professions on a single character, but it is faster for a group of friends to work together, just swapping resources and components around as needed - just the kind of activity suitable for a guild.

    Regarding guild boons - I have always found it silly that PvP (both PvP campaign boons and Guild PvP structure bonus) contributes to IL, as IL is really only relevant for PvE, but the other guild boons are very much relevant - give a significant stat and IL boost.

    Yes, they give a definite advantage to those in a GH 20 guild with all structures maxed, but there are a few things to keep in mind:
    • Many of the members of the guilds worked very hard and spent a lot of time/money to get the guild to that point. Of course they deserve something in return.
    • A new guild member may benefit from the efforts of those who were in the guild before him/her, without contributing as much. Some guilds don't see this as a problem - others require an "admission fee" or a commitment to contribute to allied guilds, or to keep the guild coffers topped up.
    • It may be hard for a brand-new player to join a GH 20 guild. Don't whine - there is a lot of, say, GH 10-15 guilds that will happily accept new members, and you can work on bringing the guild to GH 20.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    @reg1981 , @adinosii thank you for the nice pointers and excellent advice. But I have no interest in playing this game if I have to play it a certain way. There's nothing guilds have that I want aside from Masterwork, and as others have pointed out, I don't even need that, and may be better off without it anyway.
    adinosii said:


    Many of the members of the guilds worked very hard and spent a lot of time/money to get the guild to that point. Of course they deserve something in return.
    That's fine with me. I totally agree. Although, I have to say, it is concerning when the developers have to work future content around certain guild perks. That's the definition of gamechanging. And it impacts everyone, not just a handful of solo players running amuck - but big guilds, medium-sized guilds, and little guilds too.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    Oh, and I didn't realize this 'til last night, but I think there's at least one achievement you can't earn unless you're in a guild. It has to do with dragonflight. Maybe all it takes is an invite, though. I have no idea.
  • manipulosmanipulos Posts: 235Member Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Kinda the same thing that @adinosii already said, but thought I would mention that our Alliance (on PC) has a guild named "Neverwinter SOLO" made just for people that mainly want to solo the game. I'm not in game right now but I think their Guild Hall is in the high teens, so not max but still plenty high enough to do Masterwork. There may be a guild like this on PS4 already, and if not you could start one and just invite like-minded people and let them contribute/patricipate in any way they want to...or not contribute/participate at all.

    Our guild has absolutely no contribution or participation requirements whatsoever. We have a lot of casual players that come and go, but we have a core group that has worked hard this past year and we are currently upgrading to GH17, and we have the Explorers Guild boon which is pretty much a must if you want to do Masterwork professions. You could probably find a similar guild on PS4.

    As far as Masterwork goes, a lot of people start it and then when they find out how ridiculous it is they drop it a few weeks later and never look back. I've worked on it very casually since the Winter Event when I received a Forgehammer. The problem with it is you need stuff from multiple professions to progress in just one, so you either have to level all the crafts equally, or trade with other players, or just buy what you need off the AH for millions of AD.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,941Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2018
    manipulos said:

    so you either have to level all the crafts equally, or trade with other players, or just buy what you need off the AH for millions of AD.

    Don't level them all equally. level all but two. The reason? Well, once you get to MW V, you can get two purple masterwork tools for the credits you have accumulated. If you ignored two professions, get the tools for those and you can now do the initial steps, but you will have a purple tool instead of the +0% white tool. It makes a BIG difference.

    Make NWO great again, please....
  • hammbo1969hammbo1969 Posts: 165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'm a purely solo player, sitting on 15.1k IL. Yes, I do look at other toons that have more power due to the guild boons with envy, but there's nothing outside of epic dungeons and trials that this extra power is really needed for.

    The only thing that I feel I miss out on from not being guilded - apart from the social aspect is the option to pursue Masterwork professions. Would be nice to have something extra to work towards, as all I really do is my dailies and weeklies.

    Having said that, if I really want a Masterwork item, I'll siimply save up my AD and buy it. Although, with the rate items are superceded by better ones in this game, you may as well save up for 1-2 expansions and upgrade.
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