in my own farming, of bears wisps and magebreakers for an average of 2 hours in each area, i get maybe 2 plague paws, 1 wisp drop and 1 magebreaker helm. so in all on average for 6 hours of farming in good conditions i get 4 rare drops. i didn't count when i did this how many rares i killed but i know it was allot. my estimation is about 1/10 for bears 1/20 for magebreakers 1/20 for wisps.
This is why i recommend that rare spawns be reduced but rare drops greatly increased. That way farmers will gain the rewards and reapers not so much.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
Your reapers will still see an increase if they happen to come across a hunt mark and an increase in the amount of time your farmers will have to spend to see a drop.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
i posted this idea before: spawn a rare at the death of a normal mob group. If your farming then the rare will spawn right in front of you, if your reaping you won't get that.
I recently put Cryptic's RNG (random number generator) to the test. The fact is, it is accurate, but has streaks in it as bad as dirty underwear.
How I Tested I took 100 rare (blue) marks and using no wards I upgraded the rank 5 enchantments that were stacking up in my bank from trading seals. I divided them into ten runs of ten each. Success 7 Failed 3 Success 4 Failed 6 Success 9 Failed 1 Success 6 Failed 4 Success 9 Failed 1 Success 8 Failed 2 Success 7 Failed 3 Success 6 Failed 4 Success 3 Failed 7 Success 4 Failed 6 Totals 63 out of 100 = 63%
The chance of upgrade is listed as 60% so I would call it pretty accurate in the LONG term. As you can see my last two runs were below 60%. Anyone here in this area would be calling it foul. Not many players can test in the long term or go out doing massive farming on hunts. Trophy drops should be increased, but they make all these things long shots to artificially lengthen the time required to finish the campaign before you are ready to move into the next one. If I wore a hat, I would tip it to Cryptic's psychological operations department. They know exactly what you want, but give you slightly less than you need.
==EDIT== Also, I caught some trophies in the river fishing. But I have no numbers on that to support any kind of theory.
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obsiddiaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,025Arc User
edited April 2018
I spent 2 hours (actual farming) on Beasttalkers, got zero drops out of about 9. Two hours on Wisps I got 4 drops out of about 18. (Good spawning rate and more undead spots to work with.)
I notice the Shield that the Beasttalkers drop is purple, whereas many (all?) of the other L1s are blue. If that actually refers to rarity, it may make sense. Anyone doing actual stats I'd appreciate finding out if this theory pans out.
Did you really think anyone could steal the power of the god of thieves?
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
I have magebreaker helmets coming out of my.... I am going to have to start deleting them. I think I get them from the magebreakers about at least half the time I kill them, might be less, but I sure am building up a collection of them. I don't think there is anything wrong with the drops of those ones at least.
In 2 hours of farming 5 spawn points today I got the helmet to drop once. Send those extra helms my way
if thats for kutlass hunt please sen it to me , i only need the scale drop for my dc xD
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
Kutlass needs the kris from the yuan-ti Mind Whisperer.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
i have all omu hunts done (at least on time) not that i farmed the Tyrant just tagged along with a guildie, but i di farmed and killed every T1 and T2 in OMU, after that i notice that i neve did Baccho in the river map and started to farm the spider trophy, and i have to say, we need more smilodon abd drops from them, takes forever to makes those guys to go up...
i really wish i can get my Arachne's Spinneret someday but is some extra rare stuff these days...
It seems they've taken the opposite tact in the last patch and reduced the frequency of the spawn rates. I cleared spiders and Yaun-ti yesterday for well over an hour, and not one friggin special mob appeared. Not one. This is ridiculous.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
1 in 20 seems remarkably generous, I'm struggling to get 1 in 40 on anything except the driftwood shield where I don't see the mob often, but it does drop the trophy relatively frequently. Wisps I finally got my first drop a couple of days back having killed like 70 across 3 characters.
It seems they've taken the opposite tact in the last patch and reduced the frequency of the spawn rates. I cleared spiders and Yaun-ti yesterday for well over an hour, and not one friggin special mob appeared. Not one. This is ridiculous.
Similar experience. I'm bored and I've had enough of it. This doesn't offer satisfying gameplay. The tedium doesn't make me want to open my wallet!
Civil Anarchy Officer
Fabled Alliance
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I haven't had a trophy in omu in more than a week (other than RT fangs), I've probably killed 70+ eligible critters across 3 characters, it's getting soul destroying given the difficulty in finding them in the first place.
I haven't had a trophy in omu in more than a week (other than RT fangs), I've probably killed 70+ eligible critters across 3 characters, it's getting soul destroying given the difficulty in finding them in the first place.
When you see that trying to get a Tyrant item is gated behind triple RNG which are both under double RNG under another RNG under another RNG which is spawn rate + RT, with all of them being less than 5%, you start understanding it's just a way to keep us playing because the game lacks content
Post edited by c3rb3r3 on
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flambridgeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 191Arc User
i posted this idea before: spawn a rare at the death of a normal mob group. If your farming then the rare will spawn right in front of you, if your reaping you won't get that.
The problem isn't rare spawns. The problem is low drops IF kill rare spawn mob. We need wait rare spawn and kill it to "give a chance of" get trophie to "give a chance of" kill hunt mob to "give a chance of" get correct ppl gear. Are much "IF" here.
I agree and this is why all eight my characters are working on their fashion design and builds until things change. IF players don't hunt... THEN ...things will change.
Have fun!
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,224Arc User
I always think the game can read my mind. When I am looking for a hunt to kill (for the weekly), it usually a long wait (i.e. kill bears, wait, kill bears, wait, ...). When I kill it, I usually get nothing. However, when I am not looking for a hunt, a hunt will come up around me. When I kill it, I get a trophy. Last night, I was on my way to an altar in the under city. I ran through certain room but somehow I decided to turn around to take a look and there is a hunt. I killed it and got a trophy. Then, I went to the altar. Light it up and I saw another hunt in the corner. I killed it and got another trophy,
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Maybe off topic but I play the game [possibly] as it is intended - i.e. I do the quests, dungeons, OMU stuff, BHE in Omu and generally just jam around and have fun. I have got about 8 or 9 of the drops from the Hunt marks over the last month without even trying or farming them. That way when I get a nice thing I trade it for GMOPs or SMOPs. I think any grind/farming activity turns the game into a chore, which I just don't need after a hard day at work in real life. I avoid nearly all RNG activities or just do them as part of normal adventuring fun!
I tested the drop rate and The best drop I got was 2 trophy's in 1 hour normally i get about 1 drop every 45-60 minutes.
Running in a circle for 1 hour is just not working this is why people HATE hunts. I think if the trophy drop rate of t1's is 1 trophy every 10 minutes it would completely change that opinion as hunts can be fun.
In mod 13 the relative ease of obtaining the fangs is perfect if we can just get the t1 drops up it would be perfect. i dont want to spend 2+ Hours farming to get to get 2 X T1 lures then have a very high chance of getting no t2 lure drops. Meaning i just waisted 2 Hours and have to restart from scratch. To spend 20+ in game hours to get to t3(and have a high % chance to start from scratch) is just insane and that is what is happening now.
An alternative to increasing drop rate is to have people post on AH this will immidiately stop the exploiting that is happening right now and make it possible to play t1 hunts at competitive & affordable rates.
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
So my hunt group consists of 5 people, we each pick a lure type and hunt 10 or them plus we all get a few bear lures. We all came to the table this week with slightly more than usual. 12-18 of each Tier 1 hunt lure, so figure somewhere between 65-85 tier 1 hunts. We'll say 75 for simplicity's sake.
We went through and killed all of our tier 1 hunts and for all that work.. the hours of farming through the week multiplied by 5 people plus the 1.5 hours we spent grouped up killing our hunts. From all that work we received 0 mushushu talons, 4 redfang spears, 2 blood caked cutlasses, 0 hoary paws, 1 chitter's spinneret and 3 coldstones. (That's roughly 10%. Combined with the roughly 5% chance to get the drop from a rare mob which has about a 5% chance to spawn.) We combined our haul with last week's leftovers and were able to make 2 Erjellel lures and 4 Rasalas lures, from those we received nothing.
From last week we had procured 1 ensorcelled manacle with nothing to show for this week. Thats 2 weeks worth of work between 5 people. Probably somewhere in the vicinity of 200 total farming hours with nothing to show for it except 1/3 of what we need for a Tyrant hunt.
After we finished today we all felt pretty bad about the whole thing. We had one person throw his arms in the air and say, "That's it guys, I'm done. Find someone to take my place in the hunt group because this is not worth my time." Another group member exclaimed, "This system makes me want to play the game less, not more." We all agreed.
We've been doing this on a weekly basis since the mod was released, we have done at least as many if not more hunts each week as we did this week. In those weeks we have managed to hunt the Tyrant 3 times. None of us have received a bile-drenched scale.
This hunt system is by far the worst implementation of any game system ever introduced in Neverwinter as far as rewarding time spent or delivering any sense of accomplishment or progression. Its bad, really bad. Never do anything like this again.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
Basically I did an extensive research for RNG drop rates for trophies here is what my data showed for 2 hours of farming.
Rotting Sun Bear:12 killed, received 2 paws. Yuan-Ti Mind Whisperer: 9 killed, received 1magebreaker helmet Beast Talker: 8 killed, 0 driftwood shields Red Recluse: 9 killed, received 1 venom Ancient Will-o-Wisp: 11 killed, received 3 sealed wisp
This is a complete joke.
I had to kill close to almost 12 if not 15 Will-o-Wisp before I earned but my first one, and I've only ever earned one of those.
1 Two hours of farming is not enough to draw a good set of data. 2 There are several people (on this forum) who would say you had an OUTSTANDING two hours.
While I admit I usually agree with litaaers I'd have to say I've spend likely 10's of hours if in Omu by now and I'd have to say her experience seems far... far... better than what mine has been. Part of me wonder's if drops at least within the first two or three weeks were slightly better however?
Now one person told me they noticed if they stand about 15' feet away from marks (not too close not too far) the drop rate of trophies seems to increase. It was but a pure observation not any scientific study. I will say I was getting frustrated trying to defeat Will-o-Wisp's having defeated well over a dozen. Then defeating that one super slow with Templars, sun burst if it even hit them 20% of the time, I earned enough action points to hit them with Devine Justice from 15' feet. I got the trophy that time! Yet that's the only one I've ever gotten from a Wisp on my Paladin when he's up close.
I've defeated well over 15 if not closer to 20 Ancient Will-o-Wisp's and only ever earned but 1; I'd have been extremely happy if I earned 3 sealed wisp's from defeating but 11. The person seems to have lucky horseshoes & are extremely blessed with their drop's. I'd ONLY wish I'd received that many! *ponder*
I have magebreaker helmets coming out of my.... I am going to have to start deleting them. I think I get them from the magebreakers about at least half the time I kill them, might be less, but I sure am building up a collection of them. I don't think there is anything wrong with the drops of those ones at least.
Yet I know a few friends like you who have 'some' items drop more regularly for them as well - yet then have far more trouble earning others. It's not even always related to the type of hunt like if it's a 1 star, 2 star or 3 star; although you'd think the higher you go, the lower chance the drop would be.
So it just makes me wonder if their is something else that influences the drop rates aside from just pure RNG? Has anyone else noticed anything similar to that?
So it just makes me wonder if their is something else that influences the drop rates aside from just pure RNG? Has anyone else noticed anything similar to that?
I've wondered that myself. I haven't done near the farming others have, but I've seen similar patterns to those I'm seeing here. When I'm doing other stuff and randomly kill a stray hunt mark, I have pretty good luck, but when I'm deliberately hunting, the drops just drip. I seem to average a drop about every 30-45 minutes of farming.
My current, personal theory is that there is a soft cooldown, like when you get a drop, the chance for another one drops to zero, but gradually goes back up to normal over the course of an hour. I only hunt farm on my main, so I don't know if it would be character or account based, but this theory seems to fit my own experience and what I hear from others.
My theory doesn't explain the massive droughts a few people have had though. To the folks with the worst luck, have you been killing the occasional Rex while farming, or have you been solely focused on the hunt marks?
I"ve gotten two drops in a row from magebreakers, so the cooldown thing doesn't exist. My best day was 25% drop rate on the MB. hitting 4 out of 16 kills in about an hour maybe two.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I"ve gotten two drops in a row from magebreakers, so the cooldown thing doesn't exist. My best day was 25% drop rate on the MB. hitting 4 out of 16 kills in about an hour maybe two.
My guild lead killed 50 for no drops, it's a random small chance which we know from other places this game is very bad at
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
edited April 2018
The fact that one special hunting drop is required for a certain upgrade reduces the original intention of the hunting feature to absurdity. Who will socially interact by trading trophys or forming hunting parties, if this single kris and then this single scale is what everyone and their mother actually wants? The dependency of this single hunting trophy leads to just the opposite: it does not make people interact, it makes people compete with each other.
Btw: 20 x Mind Whisperers, 0 trophys 16 x Smilodon, 0 trophys 6 x Venomtail, 0 trophys
So it just makes me wonder if their is something else that influences the drop rates aside from just pure RNG? Has anyone else noticed anything similar to that?
Ok all of you testers. I have a theory, and yes i've tested it allot with various RNG items. I believe there is a variable in the RNG that looks to see how many other people are in the zone with you. I have hunted in high population zones and low population zones, and the low pop ones drop much better. I have friends that have opened numerous chests in PE and nothing good dropped, and have then gone to a private queue to open them and got great drops. Same with refining, I have had great success refining in a private Queue. That being said, the success rate in private and low pop zones is approximately the correct % stated or determined. hunt marks show approximately 10% of the time in zones 1-10 people, drop approximately 10-20% of the time. I believe the RNG has a bad variable bug in it and its seriously HAMSTER with people. IMO it shouldn't matter how many people are in the zone, you should get the set % on the RNG no matter what. Please test this out.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,224Arc User
So it just makes me wonder if their is something else that influences the drop rates aside from just pure RNG? Has anyone else noticed anything similar to that?
Ok all of you testers. I have a theory, and yes i've tested it allot with various RNG items. I believe there is a variable in the RNG that looks to see how many other people are in the zone with you. I have hunted in high population zones and low population zones, and the low pop ones drop much better. I have friends that have opened numerous chests in PE and nothing good dropped, and have then gone to a private queue to open them and got great drops. Same with refining, I have had great success refining in a private Queue. That being said, the success rate in private and low pop zones is approximately the correct % stated or determined. hunt marks show approximately 10% of the time in zones 1-10 people, drop approximately 10-20% of the time. I believe the RNG has a bad variable bug in it and its seriously HAMSTER with people. IMO it shouldn't matter how many people are in the zone, you should get the set % on the RNG no matter what. Please test this out.
I bet the overall % of the RNG would be correct. The issue is someone is more lucky than others and someone is less lucky than others. e.g. if the overall % is 10% and if 2 person do that 10 times, one may get 0 and one may get 2. It is like playing black jack (16 Aces in 4 decks). It is possible, a person always gets Ace and others cannot.
I am not saying that is correct.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Agree or Disagree: Lower the chance of rare spawn but increase the chance of trophy drop from them
No. Either: common spawn that rarely drops token OR rare spawn that always drops token. Requiring the player to catch a rare drop off a rare spawn is just sadism.
Edit: Also this:
This hunt system is by far the worst implementation of any game system ever introduced in Neverwinter as far as rewarding time spent or delivering any sense of accomplishment or progression. Its bad, really bad. Never do anything like this again.
I most vehemently concur. The hunt system as it stands is a sucker's game.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Comments
This is why i recommend that rare spawns be reduced but rare drops greatly increased. That way farmers will gain the rewards and reapers not so much.
How I Tested
I took 100 rare (blue) marks and using no wards I upgraded the rank 5 enchantments that were stacking up in my bank from trading seals. I divided them into ten runs of ten each.
Success 7 Failed 3
Success 4 Failed 6
Success 9 Failed 1
Success 6 Failed 4
Success 9 Failed 1
Success 8 Failed 2
Success 7 Failed 3
Success 6 Failed 4
Success 3 Failed 7
Success 4 Failed 6
Totals 63 out of 100 = 63%
The chance of upgrade is listed as 60% so I would call it pretty accurate in the LONG term. As you can see my last two runs were below 60%. Anyone here in this area would be calling it foul. Not many players can test in the long term or go out doing massive farming on hunts. Trophy drops should be increased, but they make all these things long shots to artificially lengthen the time required to finish the campaign before you are ready to move into the next one. If I wore a hat, I would tip it to Cryptic's psychological operations department. They know exactly what you want, but give you slightly less than you need.
==EDIT==
Also, I caught some trophies in the river fishing. But I have no numbers on that to support any kind of theory.
Two hours on Wisps I got 4 drops out of about 18. (Good spawning rate and more
undead spots to work with.)
I notice the Shield that the Beasttalkers drop is purple, whereas many (all?) of
the other L1s are blue. If that actually refers to rarity, it may make sense. Anyone
doing actual stats I'd appreciate finding out if this theory pans out.
i really wish i can get my Arachne's Spinneret someday but is some extra rare stuff these days...
The tedium doesn't make me want to open my wallet!
The problem is low drops IF kill rare spawn mob.
We need wait rare spawn and kill it to "give a chance of" get trophie to "give a chance of" kill hunt mob to "give a chance of" get correct ppl gear.
Are much "IF" here.
IF players don't hunt... THEN
...things will change.
Have fun!
Running in a circle for 1 hour is just not working this is why people HATE hunts. I think if the trophy drop rate of t1's is 1 trophy every 10 minutes it would completely change that opinion as hunts can be fun.
In mod 13 the relative ease of obtaining the fangs is perfect if we can just get the t1 drops up it would be perfect. i dont want to spend 2+ Hours farming to get to get 2 X T1 lures then have a very high chance of getting no t2 lure drops. Meaning i just waisted 2 Hours and have to restart from scratch. To spend 20+ in game hours to get to t3(and have a high % chance to start from scratch) is just insane and that is what is happening now.
An alternative to increasing drop rate is to have people post on AH this will immidiately stop the exploiting that is happening right now and make it possible to play t1 hunts at competitive & affordable rates.
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
So my hunt group consists of 5 people, we each pick a lure type and hunt 10 or them plus we all get a few bear lures. We all came to the table this week with slightly more than usual. 12-18 of each Tier 1 hunt lure, so figure somewhere between 65-85 tier 1 hunts. We'll say 75 for simplicity's sake.
We went through and killed all of our tier 1 hunts and for all that work.. the hours of farming through the week multiplied by 5 people plus the 1.5 hours we spent grouped up killing our hunts. From all that work we received 0 mushushu talons, 4 redfang spears, 2 blood caked cutlasses, 0 hoary paws, 1 chitter's spinneret and 3 coldstones. (That's roughly 10%. Combined with the roughly 5% chance to get the drop from a rare mob which has about a 5% chance to spawn.) We combined our haul with last week's leftovers and were able to make 2 Erjellel lures and 4 Rasalas lures, from those we received nothing.
From last week we had procured 1 ensorcelled manacle with nothing to show for this week. Thats 2 weeks worth of work between 5 people. Probably somewhere in the vicinity of 200 total farming hours with nothing to show for it except 1/3 of what we need for a Tyrant hunt.
After we finished today we all felt pretty bad about the whole thing. We had one person throw his arms in the air and say, "That's it guys, I'm done. Find someone to take my place in the hunt group because this is not worth my time." Another group member exclaimed, "This system makes me want to play the game less, not more." We all agreed.
We've been doing this on a weekly basis since the mod was released, we have done at least as many if not more hunts each week as we did this week. In those weeks we have managed to hunt the Tyrant 3 times. None of us have received a bile-drenched scale.
This hunt system is by far the worst implementation of any game system ever introduced in Neverwinter as far as rewarding time spent or delivering any sense of accomplishment or progression. Its bad, really bad. Never do anything like this again.
Now one person told me they noticed if they stand about 15' feet away from marks (not too close not too far) the drop rate of trophies seems to increase. It was but a pure observation not any scientific study. I will say I was getting frustrated trying to defeat Will-o-Wisp's having defeated well over a dozen. Then defeating that one super slow with Templars, sun burst if it even hit them 20% of the time, I earned enough action points to hit them with Devine Justice from 15' feet. I got the trophy that time! Yet that's the only one I've ever gotten from a Wisp on my Paladin when he's up close.
I've defeated well over 15 if not closer to 20 Ancient Will-o-Wisp's and only ever earned but 1; I'd have been extremely happy if I earned 3 sealed wisp's from defeating but 11. The person seems to have lucky horseshoes & are extremely blessed with their drop's. I'd ONLY wish I'd received that many! *ponder* Yet I know a few friends like you who have 'some' items drop more regularly for them as well - yet then have far more trouble earning others. It's not even always related to the type of hunt like if it's a 1 star, 2 star or 3 star; although you'd think the higher you go, the lower chance the drop would be.
So it just makes me wonder if their is something else that influences the drop rates aside from just pure RNG? Has anyone else noticed anything similar to that?
Especially since Mod 13 hits consoles on tuesday...
My current, personal theory is that there is a soft cooldown, like when you get a drop, the chance for another one drops to zero, but gradually goes back up to normal over the course of an hour. I only hunt farm on my main, so I don't know if it would be character or account based, but this theory seems to fit my own experience and what I hear from others.
My theory doesn't explain the massive droughts a few people have had though. To the folks with the worst luck, have you been killing the occasional Rex while farming, or have you been solely focused on the hunt marks?
Btw:
20 x Mind Whisperers, 0 trophys
16 x Smilodon, 0 trophys
6 x Venomtail, 0 trophys
I am not saying that is correct.
Edit: Also this:
I most vehemently concur. The hunt system as it stands is a sucker's game.