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Returning Player Insight on Random System & Players abusing the system
ryonas
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 158 Arc User
Doing Random Dungeon Run & Skirmish spices gaming experience I love it not sticking to cloak tower on my alts & leaving the rest of content
BIG ++
Here is the cons
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Players queue .. Oh it is long dungeon .. ok I will leave and let the others kick me after they (others) stayed over 15 minutes
Kicking system is not rewarding committed players who play content
Solution
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Add in the Vote to Kick option called Intentional Disconnect
Make a static integer variable that stores how many times a player on his account was kicked due to Intentional Disconnect
Put Conditional IF that checks if the character is actually disconnected if that is true >> this way Teammates are not abusing the system
Then
Increment that variable
If that variable exceeds threshold of value 3 then disable this player from queue for 30 Minutes on his whole account
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Could we have that .. I believe that this would stop people from early disconnecting the dungeon
If they don't wanna do the dungeon they got the option to vote to abandon the dungeon
Cheers
BIG ++
Here is the cons
===
Players queue .. Oh it is long dungeon .. ok I will leave and let the others kick me after they (others) stayed over 15 minutes
Kicking system is not rewarding committed players who play content
Solution
===
Add in the Vote to Kick option called Intentional Disconnect
Make a static integer variable that stores how many times a player on his account was kicked due to Intentional Disconnect
Put Conditional IF that checks if the character is actually disconnected if that is true >> this way Teammates are not abusing the system
Then
Increment that variable
If that variable exceeds threshold of value 3 then disable this player from queue for 30 Minutes on his whole account
===
Could we have that .. I believe that this would stop people from early disconnecting the dungeon
If they don't wanna do the dungeon they got the option to vote to abandon the dungeon
Cheers
1
Comments
If the disconnect was not intentional then they won't care, if it was deliberate, then either they sort themselves out or never random queue in that tier again.
The only downside is that it's a bit hard on the other party members, but not much different from now really
It may be possible for the programmers to do something to tell if players intentionally by clicking on: "abandon instance" or "change character", but with VIP privileges like sign post traveling and transport to Moonstone Mask or just closing down the client window and rebooting, there are currently so many ways a player can leave a dungeon or skirmish it would probably be impossible for any programmer to cover every possible method a player could use to intentionally disconnect.
I have always been and remain in favor of in game - programmed method for removing players from dungeons and skirmishes if they are disconnected more than a minute and disallowing any disconnected player from being able to log into the same party they disconnected from making it necessary for them to have to re-queue for a different dungeon or skirmish. There has always been a problem with some players deciding to kick out another party member simply because someone doesn't think one person is playing the way they should (not fast enough, not geared properly, etc.) and I think this is a problem that should be resolved.
Also I believe it would be possible for the programmers to factor in some kind of distance rule... if a player has not traveled "x" distance in "x" seconds they could be removed by a programmed default for being AFK.
This will completely end any group from intentionally kicking out a player they are unhappy with (for what ever reason) before the current 15 minute wait period and as most dungeons and skirmishes can now be completed within the 15 minute time period, no party will be able to kick out a player simply because they disagree with a person's play style... unless they want to wait 15 minutes to do so.
The disconnect situation is ugly. I would suggest give the abandon penalty also on autokick for being disconnected too long.
The 5 minutes grace before linkdead people are removed is long enough to avoid accidential disconnects to trigger this.
If some innocent players occasionally should happen to get it, it is not that big an issue, 30 minutes blocked from queues should not ruin anyones life
But upon reflection I suppose there is a way to differentiate between players who leave content and those who have been disconnected for whatever reason, so count me on board for the 24 hour account wide leaver penalty. Some players have a pretty good sense of how long it takes for a party to complete or progress in a given dungeon. I've seen some players disconnect (but I can't say with any authority they intentionally disconnected) then reconnect just about the time the remainig party members are at or close to the last boss gate.
That's why in addition to having an in game programmed response to remove disconnected players from the dungeon they were in after say 2 minutes, I think that person should be required to requeue and blocked from entering the same dungeon with the same party.
As for "leavers" -vs- "disconnected" players, I believe there is a way to tell the difference.
That's something I would like to see changed. If a character on a player's account is given a leaver penalty, it applies to all characters on that player's account, not just that one that leaves or intentionally disconnects.
But here again we are speaking about player behavior, not the ramifications of the random queue system.
So while I approve of your posts, I can't be on board, if that makes any sense?
Most players seem willing and able to adapt to speed runners, slow runners, over geared and under geared players in a party so I'm ignoring those complaints for the time being.
The primary real complaints as I think of them appear to be:
Kicking other players out of runs...
Dealing with AFK and disconnected players...
Dealing with "leavers"...
Here are my personal thoughts regarding those three specific points -
Kicking other players;
Wanting to kick out another players simply because some player thinks they are too slow, too fast, or not geared appropriately for the content should never be a factor. As far as I'm concerned the only valid reason for removing another player is the player in question is either AFK or disconnected and doesn't allow for the ultimate completion of any content within the given "suggested play time". That some players are able to get to the final gate faster than other players and have to wait for slower players, does not define "suggested play time".
Disconnected AFK players;
Presently a party has the ability to kick a player for “inactivity” after a designated 15 minute period, I don’t think that should be changed. No player actively participating in random content should be removed in less than half of the "suggested playing time" IMO.
There should be some kind of in game programmed trigger, to automatically remove Disconnected players for multiple disconnects, or disconnects of more than "X" seconds, my personal suggestion would be 120 seconds (two minutes).
There should be some kind of in game programmed trigger, to automatically remove any player who has not moved more than “X” steps for a given time period.
Since I have no idea how distance is measured in the game I’ll just toss out an arbitrary – This should give players inclined to “explore” or whatever, plenty of time to do so without excessively delaying the progression of other players (we're talking 3 minutes here).
“Leaver” players;
A player who “leaves” because they don’t care for the content they were randomly placed in, or the other players they were randomly partied with, should have an account wide lockout of at least 30 minutes before they can attempt the same or similar random content again.
Most of these proposed possible solutions have been offered by other posters, I just wanted to try to enumerate a few of these suggestions to try to get the discussion going in a positive forward direction.
No amount of programming or change is going to adjust player attitued or behavior but limiting the methods where player behavior can exploit existing game parameters for their personal benefit seems to be a good idea to me.
So like PoM Totdg IG etc, everyone ports into a lobby with a campfire and a gate activates when everyone steps into it.
They could set it to 3 minutes in that pre gateway slot, and if someone was disconnected or just hanging back they could be kicked.
Apply a similar algorithm as suggested to track how often someone is getting kicked for being disconnected/AFK. No penalty for first time. Then on next RQ, as suggested, send them back to the same content and impose benching penalties after two DC/AFK. Maybe have a reset on the game day reset? So its not eternal.
And... to stop them simply gating and THEN DCing, have markers along the linear dungeon path, so when they finally DC out, or are booted over hanging back, the bench time is increased for every marker they DIDN'T reach. So if they gate and wait, they get a bigger penalty. Ok, that means you probably end up carrying a few deadweights on PoM etc, but rather that than have dickheads dc'ing before the gate and having to wait for ages to even begin the damned thing.
Any thoughts?
As soon as they were out of sight of the port, they would raise the skull and crossbones and the crew of rough, mean, seasoned shrimpers would giggle like school girls every single time.
Anywho.... Yes. This. That is exactly where my inner conundrum came from, so I am glad you understood.
Or hanging back until all the mobs between one assembly point and the next had been dealt with then moving to the assembly point to do the same thing again?
Dealing with players who appear to be attempting to scam the run, or the other party members, is something not easily addressed but I disagree the problem will be solved or even improved by decreasing the present kick timer allowing other party members to remove a player they aren't happy with - for whatever reason.
The kick feature has already reportedly (and by my own personal experience) been abused by some characters who due to their speed, run through mobs then attempt to kick slower players stuck having to deal with those agro'ed mobs just to catch up.
I personally support the idea of the game booting any player who has disconnected multiple times during a run and not allowing them to rejoin the same content/party, even if this adversely effects some players disconnected by no fault of their own. *There is no incentive to improve anything like a old computer or a poor connection if there are no consequences.
I've just finished running a dungeon with what I suspect are very experienced players running with low level toons. As they appeared to be low level and my character was a higher level I took the lead on the first mob, the two LL's ran past me as I engaged the mob and waited just short of the next mob which I also engaged. While I was dealing with that mob they again ran past me and stopped short of the next mob...
So I engaged the third mob and brought the agro'ed mob back to the two waiting LLP's when they tried to run past them I dismissed my companion and followed bringing the mobs (by now plural) with me until we were at a point where the mobs had to be dealt with prior to proceeding.
Following this episode I checked out their character stats... Level 20 something characters with level appropriate gear and very high movement scoress.
From this point on I stayed real close to the other players in the party. They stopped - I stopped, they proceeded - I proceeded, they ran through mobs - I ran through mobs, being sure to bring them with me, they fought - I fought.
Eventually we made it to the final boss and as the three of us stood by the gate after activating it (no one engaging) apparently the other two party members got tired of waiting so the three of us took off to engage the boss. I noticed that a couple of times during that engagement one or both of the other party members tried to find a quiet corner to wait out the battle (them being at full health), so I just joined them in a corner bringing the battle with me. They moved away from the battle, I moved with them - they fought I fought...
I suspect it took twice as long as the other players thought it would take with a higher level character taking care of all the mobs for them, but in the end we were still able to finish the dungeon in far less time than the estimated play time when everyone decided to be involved.
I suspect some players didn't feel good about players complaining about a few HLP's running past mobs and not engaging them, so they created lower level characters, loaded them up with movement boons and enchantments and are now playing as LLP's trying to do the same thing without the HLP's fighting ability... but that's just a guess.
I appreciate that accidental DC occurs a lot, I suffer it with some regularity myself, but a system that focuses on the four remaining players would be preferable. Auto boot on repeated DC may be a bit much, but faster boot on prolonged DC might help.