So CW SS is dead in mod 13

mynaam · February 2018

I have been playing around with the new cw changes and since MOF now makes more dps than the nerfed to death ss and the rene will still be the buffer. Does this means SS is completely dead. I thought cryptic said they wanted us to have more versatility with classes now they force us into one track.

Not that anyone would be doing dps CW in mod 13 anyway due to the nerf hammer hitting us again it was what 7 mods without a single mod that it did not get weakened in some way.

Glad i have a gwf that run cheatmode(destroyer) to fall back to as my main dps

spidey · February 2018

mynaam said:
I have been playing around with the new cw changes and since MOF now makes more dps than the nerfed to death ss and the rene will still be the buffer. Does this means SS is completely dead. I thought cryptic said they wanted us to have more versatility with classes now they force us into one track.

Understandable and you got my full support. I dont like that CW changes too...there was no need for doing that.

mynaam said:
Glad i have a gwf that run cheatmode(destroyer) to fall back to as my main dps

Dumb post. Maybe you wrote this cuz ur upset, but for your info:
I think you should check which class makes the most DPS atm (hint: Its not the GWF)....thanks.

cambo1682 · February 2018

I don't think the devs have a clue what to do with SS Thaum. They were one of the most prominent classes and super fun to play. They still can be fun, but as pointed out they have been nickle and dimed since mod 6...there were significant nerfs to popular powers well before that, but those came with something given back fairly shortly after. It is probably just easier to ignore the fact that they have borked control in this game to the point it is near meaningless. To top it off some of their best or funner powers are considered undesirable now. Just look at how rarely you see them. This thread is proof that Cryptic have ham fisted this path into near obscurity. There used to be conspiracy theories that the CW community were the Illuminati of Neverwinter. Now we see a couple posts. Why? because they've driven off players who main these.

poeticenigma · February 2018

My main is a SS CW and I love playing her. I don't do a lot of end game runs outside of guild and alliance runs though because nobody wants a SS when they can take a MOF. I don't plan on giving her up as a main, because I personally really enjoy playing her. But I'm slowly working my DC up to be the family breadwinner as it were

mynaam · February 2018

spidey#3367 said:

mynaam said:

Dumb post. Maybe you wrote this cuz ur upset, but for your info:
I think you should check which class makes the most DPS atm (hint: Its not the GWF)....thanks.
That was not meant as a complaint against gwf it just feels to me that i am using cheatcodes if i use my gwf after using my cw on preview. that is to say as dps if i play buffer gwf is a big time looser

c3rb3r3 · February 2018

mynaam said:
I have been playing around with the new cw changes and since MOF now makes more dps than the nerfed to death ss and the rene will still be the buffer. Does this means SS is completely dead. I thought cryptic said they wanted us to have more versatility with classes now they force us into one track.

Not that anyone would be doing dps CW in mod 13 anyway due to the nerf hammer hitting us again it was what 7 mods without a single mod that it did not get weakened in some way.

Glad i have a gwf that run cheatmode(destroyer) to fall back to as my main dps

Don't need to mention destroyer, the versability you're asking for hasn't ever existed for some class

mynaam · February 2018

c3rb3r3 said:

mynaam said:
I have been playing around with the new cw changes and since MOF now makes more dps than the nerfed to death ss and the rene will still be the buffer. Does this means SS is completely dead. I thought cryptic said they wanted us to have more versatility with classes now they force us into one track.

Not that anyone would be doing dps CW in mod 13 anyway due to the nerf hammer hitting us again it was what 7 mods without a single mod that it did not get weakened in some way.

Glad i have a gwf that run cheatmode(destroyer) to fall back to as my main dps
Don't need to mention destroyer, the versability you're asking for hasn't ever existed for some class

Sorry just said that sincewhen not running destroyer gwf is not as great and cannot count as cheatmode

dafrca · February 2018

I wish I really understood why they elected to do this. I get what it will do to the character (or I think I do) but the why behind it is still hidden from me. Did they offer some explanation of why they are doing this?

pterias · February 2018

dafrca#4810 said:
I wish I really understood why they elected to do this. I get what it will do to the character (or I think I do) but the why behind it is still hidden from me. Did they offer some explanation of why they are doing this?

No, there wasn't even the barest hint of a reason. The only thing I can come up with is that the BIS cool kids over in the Library favor DPS MoFs and didn't like SS getting more damage by critting. At the very least, the cool kids are keeping silent on the SS nerfs because they want them to go through. Live vs. Preview, at BIS levels the changes are probably a wash, while the majority of us mere mortals are getting it up the rear.

I really hope they realize it was a hasty blunder and undo this.

hastati96 · February 2018

The only thing we can do is hope for any buffs in tonight's preview server patchnotes

otherwise we will have some tough months to find any party spots for tong

sandukutupu · February 2018

I see a lot of people just tossing out the acronyms here like the new people should understand this junk. MOF (master of the flame) and SS (Spell Storm) are just paragon paths. What was asked, is Spell Storm completely dead? This depends more on what you are using for powers, boons, companions, well... even your mount insignia come into play assuming you use it at all?

Way back before the new "load outs" were a thing. I had my main MOF (Llorna Zorg) and her companion/husband (Count Zorg) the Thayan red wizard at epic rank, I purchase extra slots to have another CW to play as SS. Load outs arrived last year making me feel real stoopid, but how was I to know? To be honest, from alpha testing until now, I never felt like CW got the full spectrum on power distribution. Meaning no matter what you choose, you end up with an ice mage. There is no element mastery (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind) here in this build.

Sorry I got distracted. This was questioned in Bug Reports, here back in November, and ignored by many. Unless there are more changes on the way, my CWs are doing just fine in the game. I tend to roll with the punches, because the developers don't understand how to play this game at all. Until the next mod is released or someone can point us to the patch information to discuss, it is what we have to deal with, and no amount of complaints can change that.

baronstragen · February 2018

No buffs in preview patch notes. Not worth being a CW anymore, other than a buff machine. We aren't control, we aren't DPS, we're just buffs now. Hi there SW. Please pass us on the escalator, and good luck!

gromovnipljesak · February 2018

Entire rant would be valid if ONLY you didn't whine about another class. I just can't take you seriously anymore, mate.
Also, SS is still better for AoE. MoF is single target. At least to our dear friend Sharpie.

pterias · February 2018

sandukutupu said:
I see a lot of people just tossing out the acronyms here like the new people should understand this junk. MOF (master of the flame) and SS (Spell Storm) are just paragon paths. What was asked, is Spell Storm completely dead? This depends more on what you are using for powers, boons, companions, well... even your mount insignia come into play assuming you use it at all?

Way back before the new "load outs" were a thing. I had my main MOF (Llorna Zorg) and her companion/husband (Count Zorg) the Thayan red wizard at epic rank, I purchase extra slots to have another CW to play as SS. Load outs arrived last year making me feel real stoopid, but how was I to know? To be honest, from alpha testing until now, I never felt like CW got the full spectrum on power distribution. Meaning no matter what you choose, you end up with an ice mage. There is no element mastery (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind) here in this build.

Sorry I got distracted. This was questioned in Bug Reports, here back in November, and ignored by many. Unless there are more changes on the way, my CWs are doing just fine in the game. I tend to roll with the punches, because the developers don't understand how to play this game at all. Until the next mod is released or someone can point us to the patch information to discuss, it is what we have to deal with, and no amount of complaints can change that.

Yeah, on live server, Storm Spell is the same it's been for quite some time. He's not asking if Storm Spell is dead right now, he's asking if the Mod 13 changes are going to kill it:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238125/lost-city-of-omu-preview-patch-notes-nw-95-20180207a-1/p1

They had set SS to crit a while back on preview, but then last week they decided to slash SS damage by 30% (middle of the first post). I suppose this was to compensate for it critting soon, but between that and a lowered proc rate because it's not multi-proccing as much, even pretty high end characters are seeing a 10%+ drop in storm spell damage, while lower IL characters will be hit even worse. It's not like we were a desired DPS to begin with, now it's gonna be worse. Come Mod 13, it looks like unless you are BIS, CWs are going to be support or GTFO. (that means: Get The HAMSTER Out)

The new patch notes went up earlier with no mention of it:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238277/lost-city-of-omu-preview-patch-notes-nw-95-20180212a-1/p1

So unless every CW that's not BIS and prefers to play Storm Spell gets on that thread or this and raises a HAMSTER-storm, we better get to liking Master of Flame, a different class, or not care about playing group content anymore.

wintersmoke · February 2018

mynaam said:
I have been playing around with the new cw changes and since MOF now makes more dps than the nerfed to death ss and the rene will still be the buffer. Does this means SS is completely dead. I thought cryptic said they wanted us to have more versatility with classes now they force us into one track.

Not that anyone would be doing dps CW in mod 13 anyway due to the nerf hammer hitting us again it was what 7 mods without a single mod that it did not get weakened in some way.

Glad i have a gwf that run cheatmode(destroyer) to fall back to as my main dps

That sure is a real nice build you got there. It would be a real shame if something was to happen to it.

gromovnipljesak · February 2018

pterias said:

sandukutupu said:
I see a lot of people just tossing out the acronyms here like the new people should understand this junk. MOF (master of the flame) and SS (Spell Storm) are just paragon paths. What was asked, is Spell Storm completely dead? This depends more on what you are using for powers, boons, companions, well... even your mount insignia come into play assuming you use it at all?

Way back before the new "load outs" were a thing. I had my main MOF (Llorna Zorg) and her companion/husband (Count Zorg) the Thayan red wizard at epic rank, I purchase extra slots to have another CW to play as SS. Load outs arrived last year making me feel real stoopid, but how was I to know? To be honest, from alpha testing until now, I never felt like CW got the full spectrum on power distribution. Meaning no matter what you choose, you end up with an ice mage. There is no element mastery (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind) here in this build.

Sorry I got distracted. This was questioned in Bug Reports, here back in November, and ignored by many. Unless there are more changes on the way, my CWs are doing just fine in the game. I tend to roll with the punches, because the developers don't understand how to play this game at all. Until the next mod is released or someone can point us to the patch information to discuss, it is what we have to deal with, and no amount of complaints can change that.
Yeah, on live server, Storm Spell is the same it's been for quite some time. He's not asking if Storm Spell is dead right now, he's asking if the Mod 13 changes are going to kill it:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238125/lost-city-of-omu-preview-patch-notes-nw-95-20180207a-1/p1

They had set SS to crit a while back on preview, but then last week they decided to slash SS damage by 30% (middle of the first post). I suppose this was to compensate for it critting soon, but between that and a lowered proc rate because it's not multi-proccing as much, even pretty high end characters are seeing a 10%+ drop in storm spell damage, while lower IL characters will be hit even worse. It's not like we were a desired DPS to begin with, now it's gonna be worse. Come Mod 13, it looks like unless you are BIS, CWs are going to be support or GTFO. (that means: Get The HAMSTER Out)

The new patch notes went up earlier with no mention of it:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238277/lost-city-of-omu-preview-patch-notes-nw-95-20180212a-1/p1

So unless every CW that's not BIS and prefers to play Storm Spell gets on that thread or this and raises a HAMSTER-storm, we better get to liking Master of Flame, a different class, or not care about playing group content anymore.

The thing is, SS decreasing in proc rate mostly affects single target. SS will remain much the same on AoE with the powers that proc it.

baronstragen · February 2018

The sad fact is that the proc rate has dropped for both SS and MoF. Neither will be as good as they were before.

pterias · February 2018

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
The thing is, SS decreasing in proc rate mostly affects single target. SS will remain much the same on AoE with the powers that proc it.

My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.

flambridge · February 2018

pterias said:

My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.

Wow...
-30%?

ecrana · February 2018

pterias said:
My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.

I just lost 100% interest in taking my baby CW any further. So let's take count...SW main dead. DC main on hiatus out of boredom. TR alt just sitting there for ages. GF tank on the fence since most want OP to run T9G. I'm running out of classes here.

gromovnipljesak · February 2018

ecrana#2080 said:

pterias said:
My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.
I just lost 100% interest in taking my baby CW any further. So let's take count...SW main dead. DC main on hiatus out of boredom. TR alt just sitting there for ages. GF tank on the fence since most want OP to run T9G. I'm running out of classes here.

SWs are really good in M13 as templocks. Has potential to be in the meta groups. DC is infinitely popular. TRs are good if you know how to play 'em. GFs are tanks, sure, but they're also buffs. People want GF buffs a LOT.

Ain't the game's fault that you're "running outta classes to play"

Unknown · February 2018

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Unknown · February 2018

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pitmonster · February 2018

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
DC is infinitely popular. TRs are good if you know how to play 'em.

I think his comment was DCs are boring. Others might want YOU to play one in their party but THEY sure don't want to play one.

And saying "if you know how to play 'em" is just a BS comment. Assume an "expert" player is playing each of these classes and they are geared properly. So, yes, a TR still comes up short.

Endgame is becoming heterogeneous with the exact same classes, paths, and even companions in just about every group.

pterias · February 2018

flambridge said:

pterias said:

My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.
Wow...
-30%?

ecrana#2080 said:

pterias said:
My testing with a mostly AoE loadout in a partial Kessel's run showed a 30% drop in SS procs.
I just lost 100% interest in taking my baby CW any further. So let's take count...SW main dead. DC main on hiatus out of boredom. TR alt just sitting there for ages. GF tank on the fence since most want OP to run T9G. I'm running out of classes here.

Baronstragen did a similar comparison and only lost 16% proc rate, but yeah...

darksbain · February 2018

glad I solo most of the time,looks like no t9g or omu runs for me

ecrana · February 2018

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
SWs are really good in M13 as templocks. Has potential to be in the meta groups. DC is infinitely popular. TRs are good if you know how to play 'em. GFs are tanks, sure, but they're also buffs. People want GF buffs a LOT.

Ain't the game's fault that you're "running outta classes to play"

Oh yes please! Can I play only the builds you and others would like since that's the way for everyone to enjoy a game?

Let's see templock? Yeah, I have it specced but who cares when people would rather have my DC. And my comment was more or less about the way it's been neutered over time.

DC was fun for me. Until you OD from all the requests to run on them.

TRs you say? Did I say they were bad? Nope, didn't. All I said was mine had been sitting there for ages. I've known great TRs...all pretty much built the same exact way. Zzzzz.

Oh my, GF's buff too? Seriously? What's next? You're going to tell me they do DPS too?

Hmmm so let's see. In response to my little "wink wink" semi-joke of a comment you managed to tell me that I could do the following.

Make a buffing SW. Play my buffing DC. Learn how to play a TR (cause I made a comment about classes so I probably just don't know how to play them). Play a buffing tank. Hmmmm what's the key pattern here...buff...buff...pass.

gromovnipljesak · February 2018

ecrana#2080 said:

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
SWs are really good in M13 as templocks. Has potential to be in the meta groups. DC is infinitely popular. TRs are good if you know how to play 'em. GFs are tanks, sure, but they're also buffs. People want GF buffs a LOT.

Ain't the game's fault that you're "running outta classes to play"
Oh yes please! Can I play only the builds you and others would like since that's the way for everyone to enjoy a game?

Let's see templock? Yeah, I have it specced but who cares when people would rather have my DC. And my comment was more or less about the way it's been neutered over time.

DC was fun for me. Until you OD from all the requests to run on them.

TRs you say? Did I say they were bad? Nope, didn't. All I said was mine had been sitting there for ages. I've known great TRs...all pretty much built the same exact way. Zzzzz.

Oh my, GF's buff too? Seriously? What's next? You're going to tell me they do DPS too?

Hmmm so let's see. In response to my little "wink wink" semi-joke of a comment you managed to tell me that I could do the following.

Make a buffing SW. Play my buffing DC. Learn how to play a TR (cause I made a comment about classes so I probably just don't know how to play them). Play a buffing tank. Hmmmm what's the key pattern here...buff...buff...pass.

You're missing my point. If you can't find something to play, that is your fault and that just means the game isn't for you.

The pattern here is that you're bored with the game. Find something else to play. If you can't find something to play right now, why are you still here?

neidanman · February 2018

The devs just mentioned this in the Reddit AMA and apparently they expected the SS critting+30% damage reduction to be an overall increase to dps for mid-high end players. It seems like they don't/didn't know about the SS off-hand bug that's been accounting for a large part of SS damage up 'til now, but which has now been bugfixed in this mod, leading to an overall nerf.

'The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!'

https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/duk2jyp/?context=1

(Explanation of the SS off-hand change and how its affecting dps in the new mod (at 2 min, 6s) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTpIxyD_Yps&feature=youtu.be&t=2m6s )

baronstragen · February 2018

When I did my testing, I didn't use the SS offhand feature. So the developers obviously have a better testing environment than mine. We will see what happens when the next mod goes live. But both my SS proc rate and the smoulder proc rate tested by another user had dropped.

gromovnipljesak · February 2018

baronstragen said:
When I did my testing, I didn't use the SS offhand feature. So the developers obviously have a better testing environment than mine. We will see what happens when the next mod goes live. But both my SS proc rate and the smoulder proc rate tested by another user had dropped.

The thing is, people have mentioned the really low significance of the offhand feat, and one of the devs said that it could be a bug.

So CW SS is dead in mod 13

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