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PUG Q needs to respect class builds
matthiasthehun76
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
Hi all!
First of let me say, i am not a big fan of PUG Q for many obvious reasons. The only thing that excited me a bit was, that maybe maybe my main (TR) would become more favorable with new Qs, but as we all know, nothing positive happened, META is still the same garbage as it was and players minds, as human minds naturally do, tend to favor the easiest and shortest way, so basically the only positive side i was expecting to see, didn't became reality.
But why i am writing this, it makes me pretty sad to witness now day by day and make my life on my average geared DC alt a pain in the neck, is the selfish players i encounter day by day.
Don't get me wrong, i have and had played all the classes, so no bashing here, but this is especially the case with some well geared tanks, who come into PUG Q for the quick AD, then storm ahead, provide the party no protection at all and the ones who can not upkeep with him/her, become split in 2 or 3 parts. Now as TR i mainly play the resurrecter, not my dream role tbh , while on my DC it's damn hard to keep the team together. Who shall i heal, who shall i buff, do i go for the selfish, but yet strong player or do i stay behind and try to patch up my weaker, yet normally behaving team mates. Of course under normal Q i would rather leave than witness such a mess, but now if i do, i screw myself with the penalty.
Now some might say, other classes storm ahead too and my answer would be, yes they do, but hands on heart, if a dps bites the dust, you mostly still can finish the dungeon, but if your only tank does it, most groups, specially PUG groups will fail or it becomes a pain till the end and when you get out, you are like you would get fresh air from a room full of chain smokers.
My proposal would be to Devs, since people don't change so easily, let the Q respect, if the tank for example is not a "real tank", but pure DPS and then put him/her under DPS or give us the opportunity to kick the person sooner, reduce that grace time.
P.S: Bit off topic, but still waiting for my TR to become a part on a ToNG run and not have to beg, cause that's what i don't do and that's why i have so little amount of ToNG runs under my belt. Now, if someone comes with, oh but run it with your guild, i can't do it for the time being, my guildies are casuals and most of them not well geared for it yet. It could fill another thread, but why not hand out Seals of the Brave in the Folly skirmish too for example, understandably in shorter amounts, but give us not so favored classes an opportunity to get the latest gear.
First of let me say, i am not a big fan of PUG Q for many obvious reasons. The only thing that excited me a bit was, that maybe maybe my main (TR) would become more favorable with new Qs, but as we all know, nothing positive happened, META is still the same garbage as it was and players minds, as human minds naturally do, tend to favor the easiest and shortest way, so basically the only positive side i was expecting to see, didn't became reality.
But why i am writing this, it makes me pretty sad to witness now day by day and make my life on my average geared DC alt a pain in the neck, is the selfish players i encounter day by day.
Don't get me wrong, i have and had played all the classes, so no bashing here, but this is especially the case with some well geared tanks, who come into PUG Q for the quick AD, then storm ahead, provide the party no protection at all and the ones who can not upkeep with him/her, become split in 2 or 3 parts. Now as TR i mainly play the resurrecter, not my dream role tbh , while on my DC it's damn hard to keep the team together. Who shall i heal, who shall i buff, do i go for the selfish, but yet strong player or do i stay behind and try to patch up my weaker, yet normally behaving team mates. Of course under normal Q i would rather leave than witness such a mess, but now if i do, i screw myself with the penalty.
Now some might say, other classes storm ahead too and my answer would be, yes they do, but hands on heart, if a dps bites the dust, you mostly still can finish the dungeon, but if your only tank does it, most groups, specially PUG groups will fail or it becomes a pain till the end and when you get out, you are like you would get fresh air from a room full of chain smokers.
My proposal would be to Devs, since people don't change so easily, let the Q respect, if the tank for example is not a "real tank", but pure DPS and then put him/her under DPS or give us the opportunity to kick the person sooner, reduce that grace time.
P.S: Bit off topic, but still waiting for my TR to become a part on a ToNG run and not have to beg, cause that's what i don't do and that's why i have so little amount of ToNG runs under my belt. Now, if someone comes with, oh but run it with your guild, i can't do it for the time being, my guildies are casuals and most of them not well geared for it yet. It could fill another thread, but why not hand out Seals of the Brave in the Folly skirmish too for example, understandably in shorter amounts, but give us not so favored classes an opportunity to get the latest gear.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
2
Comments
This still gives them sufficient defense to handle most dungeons, at least if they are properly built and played.
So how is the game to know if a GF is 'dps only'?
For OPs the situation probably is the same.
And I think you are talking about the low-level levelling dungeon play primarily. Running ahead alone is not that feasible in T1-T2 dungeons - there are a few situations where the tank can pull an encounter along to the next to bunch them up.. but then it is the dps fault if they attack the moving mobs and don't follow the tank.
The basic rule is 'Stay with the tank' - no running ahead of tank, no attacking behind tank. You can of course do it if you think you are able, but then you should not complain if it does not work.
If tanks would use the correct builds things might go alot better.
This is just my input on this.
The one thing this game does not offer is a role set when going into a dungeon.
I think it should force roles on each player. Sure there is times time switch roles in side a dungeon but for tanks they shouldnt really switch roles. Tank builds are for tanking and in a dungeon they are tanks not dps.
What is happening is what devs planned, only more so..They wanted to force L65+ players back through the old leveling dungeons to push/pull/drag lower level players through, since they couldn't get a group of their own level to fill a dungeon. They wanted that so much they were willing to bribe high level players with AD to do it.
So what is happening? High level players are taking the bribe, slamming all the mobs as they rush through as fast as they can to the rewarded AD. They aren't there to sight see (they have seen it dozens if not hundreds of times already). They are killing everything that pops up, as they rush through the optimal path through and enough to open whatever stopper gate there is.
The problem is the lowby IS there to sight see, they HAVEN'T seen it to boredom, so they ARE poking the non-optimal paths and aggroing mobs that the higher level didn't touch or need to kill. The high level player is half the dungeon away by now, tapping his/her foot waiting at a gate. Even if the lowby DIDN'T poke their nose into non-aggroed stuff, they are WAY slower geared and can't run as fast, their best plan is do NOTHING but run, run, run towards the end, the higher level player only slowed down long enough to 1or2 hit insta kill mobs.
What is happening is what players SAID would happen (what a shocker, they were right)....forcing high level players through hamster wheel to get some cheese is degrading lower level players game experience...but hey, at least they got a group! The experience sucked, but they got through!
And I get you are trying to be helpful with "advice".
But someone not doing what YOU demand (and do note your post comes off as not advice, but a demand), is not selfish, nor as you say "blatantly selfish".
Doing what you demand, isn't selfish anywhere in the universe, except in your mind.
Perhaps you meant "inconsiderate" rather than selfish, inconsiderate is not tallying my actions vs. others being effected, selfish means I considered it and did it anyway, I didn't give a flying fig what others thought or needed.
What I choose to do is a "choice", I used my intellect and made a decision that fit me and my play. Selfish requires a demand component or a inconsideration aspect. Selfish by definition is evident, it is naturally "blatant" and needs no attention or modifier. It's not blatantly hot or cold, it is hot, extra hot or extremely hot or the converse concerning cold. Concerning selfish, it was cognitive, someone knew better and did it anyway, no modifier is needed either, extra selfish? Selfish is selfish, there is no "extra".
If I chose to have black beans with my nachos rather than pinto beans isn't selfish, it was s choice on my part...however! If I got all haughty and insisted, you too must have black beans, even if you knew you prefer pintos, that would be selfish on my part, demanding you have what I want you to have, rather than what you desired.
It would have been INCONSIDERATE of me to eat pintos, knowing later we would be in a confined space together and pintos made me flatulent. Maybe I knew in advance it would be better (with my choice, using intellect) to have the black beans and you simply did not have all the information involved.
What would have been SELFISH, was having the pintos (even knowing about the confined space and how pintos effected) and having them anyway and then refusing you the ability to leave the confined space.
Oh, and yes, this was preachy, blatantly preachy even
So extra selfish of me.......
Let me fix the game for you right now... remove life steal and buff DC and OP healing. There, you would now be crazy not to have a healer in the party doing content and them not blasting heals on everyone.
Of course the real problem with this game and every other MMO that has been around for a while is power creep. Bosses are mountains of HP by the millions. By mod 20 do we hit a billion?
The healing situation where lifesteal does most of the healing makes us independent of healers at least for the easy-to-medium content.
Similarily class defenses often makes tanks unnecessary for the easy-to-medium content.
This basically means that we are free of the tank-heal-dps straitjacket for much of the NW content.
A good thing, if you ask me.
To make a simple analogy that no one here will probably get or remember:
In the good old days when there was only a few MMOs, the best was Ultima Online. It was simple fun and demanded good teamwork. The key word is teamwork and SIMPLICITY. There were limited builds and limited skills and limited equipment for toons. Which made teamwork easy as it was SIMPLE to understand what to do and when. That made it fun to team up.
Two warrios fighting back to back could cross heal each other constantly and basically tank down an entire army of enemies or a dragon or whatever. Healing was completely vital to the game as to heal an ally took a few seconds, to self heal took ages, so the game kind of forced players to work in cooperation.
MOST NW content is solo and is facetank easy... then you get to FBI, To9G and MSP and you have to re-learn how to play. One hit Valindra attacks or whatever instakills etc etc which as a player you havent learnt how to cope with. I woudl say make the levelling content more suitable to learnign how to play your class "properly"
I mean the game is just devolving and homogenizing into a classless DSP self healing tank toon. In fact the term "toon" is apt.
And we do love them
I have a GF as my second class and i have no desire to play anything but conquerer, the majority of my game time i spend solo anyway and it isn't fun taking 10 hours to clear trash mobs in solo content.
MMO history shows that balancing this system is a nightmare destined to failure and games (WOW, STAR WARS, ecc...) eventually abandon this system in favor of locked paths that take care of all the meta, and just allow for a handful of choices that changes some gameplay elements, without changing the overall performance of the class.
Cryptic should take a hint...
Simply give every character a fixed running rate inside dungeons. Granted that will screw up some feats but overall it will help keep the team together as long as mounts aren't involved.
As a lvl70 that runs lvling dungeons daily I get super annoyed at others that just run past mobs. Its no problem for me since I know that I can kill them with ease but what about the other guy? maybe he's a low lvl. So you speed your way to the end just to end up sitting there wasting time while the rest of the team kills their way through the dungeon, it really makes no sense, just kill as you go.
I may not always wait for the team but I at least kill everything along the way.