Official: M13 Bear Update

finefineday · January 2018

Hi everyone!

With Module 13, we wanted to go back and give the bear model a face-lift. This change will affect all bear mounts, companions, and critters (but will not impact the polar bear--which is staying the same).

We also updated the armored version of the bear too

Let us know what you think below

trgluestickz · January 2018

I already wrote a post on various mount changes I found on the preview server. I wasn't sure where to put it so I put it in the feedback thread for lost city of omu rewards. Now that I have a better place to put my post, I have copied my post below, this post includes feedback on the bear mount reskin:

Changes to Bear Mounts Feedback:

All of the bear mounts except for the polar bears have had a reskin and armor change done to them on preview. This is a very drastic change to these mounts and is unlikely to sit well with players who currently own them. Personally, I like the new bear bodies better but the new armor looks terrible and the new pigment for the darker colored bears looks too light and washed out compared to the original. Here is a before and after picture of the high forest bear to showcase the change:

High forest bear before change: https://i.imgur.com/3QCav72.jpg

High forest bear after change: https://i.imgur.com/AfL4SPW.jpg

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Other mount feedback I put in that post:

Feedback on the New Triceratops Mounts:

The legendary triceratops looks great, thumbs up for the legendary design. The epic version on the other hand should have its color changed to something more appealing. The epic version is currently a particularly ugly shade of green. Case in point: https://i.imgur.com/1e939jo.jpg

Also, the stat bonus for the triceratops mounts is lame and should be changed to something else before these mounts hit live. The legendary triceratops grants 4k defense and the epic triceratops grants 2k defense. There are already 2 other legendary mounts in the game that grant 4k defense. Also, the legendary carpet of flying is one of the mounts that grants 4k defense. Releasing 2 legendary defense mounts back to back is likely to disappoint players since defense is not a stat many people actually want.

I suggest changing the triceratops' mount stat bonus to a 2 stat bonus, HP and deflect would be a good never before seen option that people would actually want. 4k deflect or a large amount of HP would also be good options for this mount.

Issue with Champion's Armored Bulette:

The champions armored bulette I noticed had been drastically resized on preview. It is now a lot smaller on preview than it is on live. I want to see this get fixed, this mount looks a lot better when its big.

This is not the first time the champion's armored bulette has been subject to a resize after a module release. The champion's armored bulette was big when it was first released and stayed that way up until module 9. When module 9 hit, this mount was downsized. Several players who own this mount complained and this mount was eventually changed back to its original size as a result.

Giant Strider, Axe Beak, and Deinonychus Bug:

These mounts have another new bug on preview. When they run, the footsteps sound effect for the T-Rex plays.

Legendary T-Rex Resize Feedback:

A lot of players wanted to see the T-Rex mounts be made a little bigger. It looks like the devs honored that wish since the legendary T-Rex mounts on preview are much larger than they are on live. Thumbs up to this change, a lot of people who own these mounts will love this. The run animation for these mounts also looks way better now that they have been resized. The bigger a mount is, the slower their legs move and the T-Rex resize seems to have made their run more realistic looking.

Manticore Bug Fix Feedback:

After module 12.5 hit live, I along with several other people reported that the tail for all manticore mounts were missing their spikes. This appears to have been fixed on preview, thank you for that fix.

hustin1 · January 2018

1. The round armor on the front shoulder doesn't look quite right. What is holding it on? It looks like it needs an attachment strap at the very least.
2. What is holding the head piece on? Something is really missing there.
3. There should be something to hold onto for the rider -- either a saddle horn, stirrups, or both.
4. The fur looks a little "plasticky" -- maybe better detail or shading on the fur would help?
5. The teeth and gums look odd. I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe that area needs better shading?
6. The model overall is a vast improvement, just needs a few tweaks.

If you're looking at updating models from time to time, maybe take a look at the cat augment? The head doesn't look right at all.

minotaur2857 · January 2018

The armor looks AWFUL. The model is much better, as I have the armored bear on all my characters will be looking for a refund if it's changed like this.

trgluestickz · January 2018

To elaborate on what exactly makes the new bear armor look terrible, its too rounded and dull. Something about it doesn't seem real enough looking. It reminds me of the some of the thick blunt rounded materials used for making playground equipment.

The new armor also doesn't look intimidating at all, the original armor had issues with that too but the new armor is even worse about this. I'd expect an armored bear to look a lot more formidable.

As other people have mentioned, the armor peices do not appear to have anything holding them on, I'd prefer the design to make a little more sense.

Also while we are on the subject of bear mount changes, there is currently an issue with bear mounts on live that would be good to have fixed alongside improvements made to the reskin:

All Bear Mounts (started within the last 3 or So Mods):
When you use the spacebar emote for any kind of bear mount, the bear's roar is now so low volume that you can barely hear it. This issue started right after some maintenance was done on mount vocals in general but I don't remember the exact date. The vocals for this mount need to be turned back up.

hustin1 · January 2018

The old armor represents far more accurately how plate armor is made and used. Each individual plate is first hammered, and the edges are curled up and rounded both to eliminate sharp edges as well as to strengthen them and prevent cracks from propagating. The plates are then arranged such that they overlap to eliminate vulnerabilities yet still allowed to articulate. Each individual plate is then riveted to underlying leather, which is how each plate stays on. Any buckles, etc. used to wear the armor are attached to the leather, and the plate goes along for the ride.

Chain, at least on people, is usually worn over top of an underlying leather jerkin. In the case of a mount, you could conceivably feed rivets through individual links to attach them to underlying leather, but one would have to take care to not damage the links thus creating weaknesses. A simple way to mitigate it, though, would be to purposely craft the chain with attachment points using thicker links.

One would never wear chain without something thick underneath -- it's not a good feeling to have links smashed into your skin.

trgluestickz · January 2018

trgluestickz said:
Personally, I like the new bear bodies better but the new armor looks terrible and the new pigment for the darker colored bears looks too light and washed out compared to the original. Here is a before and after picture of the high forest bear to showcase the change:

High forest bear before change: https://i.imgur.com/3QCav72.jpg

High forest bear after change: https://i.imgur.com/AfL4SPW.jpg

While I am on the subject of darker mounts getting lightened, there are some other mounts with the same problem on live. The black stallion used to be a really nice looking dark shiny black but for some reason, this mount was changed to a dull dark grey in a later patch. I wasn't happy about that change and neither were 2 other players I saw mention the change a long time ago.

Here is a picture of the black stallion: https://i.imgur.com/wQFaMEV.jpg

I don't have a picture of the black stallion with its origional color so I am comparing it with the black horse to showcase the difference. The black horse is the same color the black stallion used to be: https://i.imgur.com/NUYDl78.jpg

The panther mount to my knowledge has always been a dull dark grey color. Though this is the mount's origional version, it would look much better if it was darkened. I am not sure whether or not other panther owners agree with me on this though.

Here is a picture of the panther: https://i.imgur.com/44XxzmX.jpg

The starry panther mount uses a darker much better looking shade of black as a base color. I am including a picture of it to compare to the panther mount: https://i.imgur.com/E9QfbZA.jpg

theguiido · January 2018

@finefineday#4940 I like the updated design. Looks very nice. The work shows. Also, your name and profile pic on here is the coolest thing ever.

someone3x7 · January 2018

I've lived in bear territory a few times and when I look at both models I see issues. There is more wrong with the armor than construction. It doesn't suit how they move. The artists might be well served with inspiration by youtubing some bear attack videos.

trgluestickz · January 2018

hustin1 said:
1. The round armor on the front shoulder doesn't look quite right. What is holding it on?
2. What is holding the head piece on?

Suratuk's magical bear glue.
I hear it makes prying the armor off an un-bear-able task for the armor cleaners.

trgluestickz · January 2018

hustin1 said:

The fur looks a little "plasticky" -- maybe better detail or shading on the fur would help?

I think making the bear's fur stick up a little would be a way to fix this as well. The fur is completely flattened down relying only on color texturing to make it look like fur at all, no parts of the fur actually stick up. Its probably possible to fix this with more color detail/shading but making the fur more three dimensional is also a viable method.

This is a problem I've noticed on several other mounts before as well. The winter wolf mount is a great example of this unrealistically flat smoothed down fur. Ironically, the shadow wolf mount managed to do better than the winter wolf in this regard despite having no fur color texturing. The shadow wolf has a few fur like bits poking out on its back and that helps give it a better shape than the winter wolf. The winter wolf mobs also look very different from the winter wolf mount; the mobs have fur that sticks up in places and that helps make them look better made than the winter wolf mount.

Here is a picture of a winter wolf mount: https://i.imgur.com/BuTNUKi.jpg

Here is a picture of a winter wolf mob: https://i.imgur.com/zWodLDM.jpg

Here is a picture of a shadow wolf mount up close: https://i.imgur.com/BUuPBJ4.jpg

Unknown · January 2018

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melinden · January 2018

The changes to the SIlverback Bear look great, thanks!

finefineday · January 2018

Hi again,

So first off I wanted to let everyone know how much I've appreciated all of the feedback. I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past 2 days and I've made a few adjustments to the armor in response.

I also restored the High Forest Bear, and other darker bears, to their original color.

(And on a side note, I also restored the black stallion to its original shade of black

)

We don't often change existing player mounts and companions because it can be a very contentious issue. People have different taste, and it is basically impossible to make a change that every single player will be happy with. It isn't possible to hit everything, so I had to be selective about what was and wasn't getting changed.

Also, thanks to everyone who did chime in to say they liked the changes. It is super lovely to hear that.

Hope everyone has a fine fine day!

-F.F.D

zerappus · January 2018

Thanks. The new bear model is beautifully done. I bought a High Forest Bear from the AH so fast, the moment I saw it on preview last week.

Had a Moonbear on one my rugged-looking alts, but the old model looked like gigantic rats, so I had him riding a Cavalry T-Rex. Now, I can finally equip the fellow with a proper bear.

arcanjo86 · January 2018

finefineday#4940 said:
Hi again,

So first off I wanted to let everyone know how much I've appreciated all of the feedback. I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past 2 days and I've made a few adjustments to the armor in response.

I also restored the High Forest Bear, and other darker bears, to their original color.

(And on a side note, I also restored the black stallion to its original shade of black )

We don't often change existing player mounts and companions because it can be a very contentious issue. People have different taste, and it is basically impossible to make a change that every single player will be happy with. It isn't possible to hit everything, so I had to be selective about what was and wasn't getting changed.

Also, thanks to everyone who did chime in to say they liked the changes. It is super lovely to hear that.

i like the new bear model but the face armor looks weird, have you tried instead of going up, go to the sides above the eyes? like this the nose looks like boar. take this a exchange of ideas and keep up the good work.

xxmantaraxx · January 2018

@finefineday#4940 Can we get the spiked armlets added back? I always thought they were cool looking. I love everything eles, especially the wework of the face and jaw. Its not a deal breaker but I like the spikes on the arms.

trgluestickz · January 2018

xxmantaraxx said:
@finefineday#4940 Can we get the spiked armlets added back? I always thought they were cool looking. I love everything eles, especially the wework of the face and jaw. Its not a deal breaker but I like the spikes on the arms.

A similar thought crossed my mind, I'd like to see something put back onto the legs, studded bracers would be a good option. If what gets put on the legs is spiked, I think the rest of the model could be improved a lot by adding spikes to other parts of the armor, maybe along the edges of each peice. I'd also like to see something on the chest, bears can rear up when they fight, leaving their chest exposed to attacks.

trgluestickz · January 2018

finefineday#4940 said:
Hi again,

So first off I wanted to let everyone know how much I've appreciated all of the feedback. I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past 2 days and I've made a few adjustments to the armor in response.

I also restored the High Forest Bear, and other darker bears, to their original color.

(And on a side note, I also restored the black stallion to its original shade of black )

We don't often change existing player mounts and companions because it can be a very contentious issue. People have different taste, and it is basically impossible to make a change that every single player will be happy with. It isn't possible to hit everything, so I had to be selective about what was and wasn't getting changed.

Also, thanks to everyone who did chime in to say they liked the changes. It is super lovely to hear that.

That looks better than the first version you proposed. I'm still not a huge fan of the rounded armor design, but its a little better than the origional bear counting everything at this point. Since I like the new bear bodies a lot more than the armor, I will probably take to using my armorless bears more often than my armored ones (I'm a mount collector).

Also, thank you for restoring the color on mounts that got lightened.

minotaur2857 · January 2018

The old armor looked like metal (and IMO was one of the better pieces of art you had), the new armor looks like nothing on earth, looks like something that's been enamelled which is very odd for this sort of thing. Was there a particular reason for changing the look ? Also the head piece would appear to be held on by the equivalent of boob tape, which was also true of the old one but less noticeable on the smaller piece.

modlesie · January 2018

Really? Do something with class balance, who cares about some bears?...gezz...you really don't want to players like me to come back to this game.

jonkoca · January 2018

Nice work, I always thought the old bear model was a bit goofy looking.

Unknown · January 2018

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muminekm · January 2018

pantha7 said:
nice..could you add armor in the summer festival's Pig mount ...? they look adorable...xD

Speaking of which I would totally buy Legendary Pig Mount. (just random idea for graphic team..)

cilginordek · January 2018

Give more horses pl0x.
We need more variations of the Enchanted Courser and Dappled Riding Horse models.

duskwood · January 2018

That looks absolutely amazing, I hope you guys do more tweaks and such like this. WoW went back and redid a lot of its old world stuff and its so nice. Maybe next character model texture updates so I dont look like a pixelated wierdo in my cutscenes?

sundance777 · January 2018

Now that I see the two side by side, the old bear face looked a lot like a wolf, those look good with the extra lighting on the side pieces, I think you need a little light on the top armor piece as well, maybe...

pitshade · January 2018

The old armor looked the same as the Heavy Worg, leading me to think they used the same base model.

I have had a bear mount for some time but never used it due to the odd snout. Now the beast is certain to get some time in the sun. This is a minor change but one that juat feels good.

ravenskya · January 2018

I can't stand the bear's blocky hind end when they move. Is that getting fixed or are we still going to stair at a box with a tail?

also I'm not a fan of the hovering neck armor...

pauliusxas · January 2018

Wth? It feels kind of stupid that devs focusing more on bear face than on class balancing, fixing bugs or removing all the HAMSTER that they have added in this game. I don't understand, players is leaving constantly, I thought at least this module something will change, but nope...

award9 · January 2018

I like the changes to the bear. I would like the armor better if there were more straps holding the armor on and chest armor added.
I don't mind the removal of the saddle horn. I didn't need it to wrangle mobs.
Overall, these changes are appreciated.

Official: M13 Bear Update

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