I wonder if they doubled the difficulty of killing hunt marks and targets in trade for doubling the drop rate of trophies OR dropped gear, would that be fair?
I mean, it seems unrealistic and kinda unfair to force us to believe a Big Claw doesn't ALWAYS have a spare pincer or a Smilodon doesn't ALWAYS have an extra fang, but I guess we live in a world where Orcus somehow manages to hide his wand 99% of the time when he dies, so meh....
This plus stackable lures and trophies? Would that make everybody happy?
This occurred to me a long time ago. Logically, these trophies should ALWAYS DROP! I mean, like, lol. It's bad enough how rare many of the hunt marks are anyways, they should always drop trophies just like what the T-Rex was changed too.
There are other consideration like monsters appearing in groups and each one dropping it. A reasonable compromise to that is judge how many appear and set the drop rate accordingly. For example, Braves would always drop, Eotyrranus and Big Claw would each have a 50% drop chance, Venomtails would each have a 33% drop chance, etc.
Oh, and that should be the drop rate for each player that damages it.
And Dumb repetitive tasks are better for bots. Kill in area X, lure drops, mail lure to another account. Mail failed, full, mail to next in list, etc...
not even close to the real thing
I'm glad we have a bot runner here to share the truth. It's rare to see someone willing to tell us the truths behind the scene of botting. So what is the real thing from your expiriance ?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I'm in a guild, that at least tries to put the social aspect as the main priority, and except "I got some lures, anyone want free totems?" I don't see any social aspect.
This is the same as, "Who wants to go to FBI?" But it would have been actually much more Social if it wasn't "Want free totems?" But, "I have 20 lures, anyone want free totems?"
I still don't see how making it unique item contributes to sociability. There is a correlation vs causation issue here, a social guild will organize something, the uniqueness and non stack-ability of the items didn't contribute to that. The fact that t-rexs give fangs to parties, you invite your friends. Or if you know someone looking for a specific lure, you try to help. WoD dragons, are example for now obsolete, but once major group content which is not instanced and queued. There are no non-stackable items there.
Bottom line having content to do, with chase reward, opens the possibility of social interaction, in this case open world content. The lures being non-stackable doesn't contribute to this, on the contrary, it's just a deterrent, as people give up on the system because of the inventory micro management. Make those stackable and there is a good chance that guilds will organize much more hunts, as it becomes more of an actual activity and less wait for a mailbox, or wait until someone go to town to trade trophies for lures.
The issue for me, is not the AH, it's the maximum of one-item in inventory!
I'm glad we have a bot runner here to share the truth. It's rare to see someone willing to tell us the truths behind the scene of botting. So what is the real thing from your expiriance ?
I could say the same for you, but I won't, it's kiddish. I'll just suggest you to use google and learn something about it.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I wonder if they doubled the difficulty of killing hunt marks and targets in trade for doubling the drop rate of trophies OR dropped gear, would that be fair?
I just might work. Of course, "weaker" players would have trouble soloing them, but that would actually encourage people to for parties - and that "socializing" is much more enjoyable than just interacting for the purpose of trading. With a higher drop rate for the T1 trophies, I actually wouldn't mind if they were BtC non-tradable.
Can you implement the leader decides loot mode for console? That way no one can steal ur loot if u need help, kos for example i know guild chat is an option but the gear is bound to account once u pick it up so that doesnt help if they misclick.
If neither of these answers is satisfying, and you generally don't find hunts appealing, there are other ways to obtain comparable equipment.
I suggest to make rings upgradeable, or a trade-in: bring 10(or 25, or whatever) +4, get 1 +5.
What may be comparable equipment for a old/new hunt +5 ring with two offensive slots?
SKT +5 have low stats, even the TONG-Drop or Seals-Rings are better (but no 2 offensive-slots!)
Underdark +5: all sudden are worthless. rising power does not get included in powershare, so only rising lifeleach and crit are valuable. and they do not proc on comps, but for that we have:
IG +4 Rings (btw why +5 have overload-slot? why? ) for comps
I mean hey, I kind of get it. Having ViP gives players a leg up over those that don't when it comes to storing and trading trophies. If trophies become stackable then that advantage no longer applies and those damned dirty commoners can get in on that lucrative trophy trading bidnes. Amirite?
So here's a crazy suggestion since maybe. Just maybe. This non stackable trophy thing has increased ViP sales. How about a compromise?
How about those with ViP can stack trophies?
Crazy idea right? I meant good god that's just low to make players pay for a QoL improvement and stuff... Oh wait that's already being done. So why not go full tilt and allow those with ViP to stack trophies/lures. I know some might say it's a slippery slope but lets face it. The current hunt system is already encouraging ViP for the mailbox.. This just cuts out the BS.
Draco Metallum GF - Tank stuff till dead Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
Stackability is an issue raised by a lot of people but i'm not going to cut the line with this alone. I honestly gave up on hunting because I couldn't socialize anymore with progressing along this ladder.. i'm not talking about drop rates for gear because that itself could have been the throttling necessary to mandate grinding.. But you went ahead and implemented this layer of rng to even progress across this ladder and this is where I accepted defeat and called it fate. From my last negative criticism on hunts upto to this point, nothing has changed and the very implementation that I loathe extremely is making its way towards the next major update to the game.. Hunting could have been a nice open world activity but the implementation is not fun.. Listen to the players on this.
If socializing is the point of hunts, y is the loot shared to begin with? I mean as is at least on console, anyone in the group can take ur loot and vise versa. Or if u farm the lures together to make a t3 lure, who gets the loot? Y dont u make it so that everyone gets loot? I know that u want players to have something to grind towards but having layers of rng then making it so that someone can take all ur hard work away from u isnt very good design wise. Plus the group get wat for helping, 1 totem especially if they helped farm the lure.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Make the trinkets stackable and postable on AH, thanks.
We have no plans to allow the posting of hunt lures or trophies on the auction house. We are intentionally limiting these items to trading as we'd like to focus on maintaining the hunts feature as a social feature. Whether this means primarily running hunts with friends and guildmates, or engaging in direct trades with other players, that's up to you. Hunts are designed to be a feature that helps adventurers make new connections and give them something to do with their existing connections.
If sales were allowed on the auction house, the amount of socialization that occurs as part of the feature would be severely diminished. In addition, these items will lose their value much more quickly as engaging in the market will be easier, and at any given moment players will have access to all trophies and lures that are on sale, as opposed to the subset of those that are available at the time they check with others interested in trading. We'd like to encourage players to hunt their own marks, or to socialize with other players to make trades.
I understand this may not be the response you were hoping for, but I wanted to let you know that we have heard this feedback, and it's currently not something we plan to change.
@asterdahl what about only being stackable, becuase i for examplet stack specific trophy/hunts would be much easier to manage my inv, the "unique" of the item not allowing to pick second one like it happened on mod 12, sucks so bad it became a stupid idea. basicly another module without huntings, makos favors shop looks promising(if the quest for this doesnt get limited on the number of drops from mobs).
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Musshussu's Talon is shown as being a trophy used to purchase a 1 star hunt, when it actually a 1 star hunt and the talon is used to purchase a 2 star hunt.
@asterdahl At least respond to the stackable thing. •-•
I've already mentioned that we're re-examining this element but I don't want to say anything one way or the other before a decision is made. Also, please don't take this comment as a confirmation that a change is or is not coming, we're always considering making adjustments based on your feedback, but we are also weighing that against the goal of the feature as well as how other elements would have to change to absorb the impact.
I can proudly say that I organize Chult hunt events with my guild. And it did bring people together. At one time there were 15 of us taking up strategic positions. And that is something that we will remember as a part of the guild event/hunt. Everyone got together and we all helped eachother out in terms of achieving the gear as the prize. And normally in the solo variant they'd never achieve it due to the necessity to work as a group. And THAT is what MMO is all about in it's core. You guys, developers, producers, community managers or whoever finally achieved that and that's the reason why I came back after a year of pause. I see potential in what MOD13 brings (and I hope that in the future there could be some nice changes for the CW, any changes, really, the class lives for theorycrafting and so do many cw's find great enthusiasm in tinkering)
Glad to hear you and your guild could enjoy the hunts! The experience you describe is one of the primary drivers for why hunts were built the way they were. There's really not a lot of content in Neverwinter that allows for this sort of play.
I don't know how this works exactly, but the drop rate seriously diminished after some time which made less and less people interested in pursuing this.
I wonder is there a cap on how many trophies per week you can gather or something?
There are no hidden caps or modifiers of any kind, nor have their been any adjustments to drop rates since launch save the public adjustments to tyrannosaurus fangs that made them significantly easier to obtain. With a purely random system, you're going to get streaks that make it seem like chances are being manipulated. Humans are wired to look for patterns and confirmation, but I promise there's none here.
Let's talk about hunting.We all understand why you did so that the lures would not stacks.All this for pushing players buy Vip.
Although it's understandable to draw this conclusion, it's actually not the case. The ability to mail these items was an unintended bug that made it live. Once we realized that it shipped in this manner, and players were using the mailbox like this, we spent a lot of time internally debating about whether to make them unmailable, at the time we decided to leave them as is. It's difficult to say whether it was the right decision or not, but to be completely honest, VIP did not come up in the discussions.
stop forcing socialization for players in a way that you think it should be done. Majority of us us are grown ups and we know how to socialize without anyone forcing it on us.
It's not about whether or not you know how to socialize. If there is not content that players can participate in together to earn noteworthy rewards, people will drop off from playing. I'm not talking about this from the perspective of simply managing player numbers, but as someone who has run many guilds in many MMOs over many years, if you have something you can do together with a common goal, it encourages everyone to socialize—and really, just gives people an excuse to hang out.
It's very difficult for a lot of players to justify logging on just to socialize. If you've been a long time player and are part of an established guild that already had plenty of players online and socializing before hunts were added, you maybe had a routine that involved doing dailies and socializing while you do those. But a lot of people playing that sort of content will maybe be watching a streaming service and sort of mindlessly playing. In dungeons, some players might be happy to keep socializing as they play but plenty of players are too focused on playing the content to be able to enjoy socializing.
Hunts serves as content that is an excuse for people to hang out, and gives players an opportunity to bump into each other, whether it's trading lures and trophies, or even having a confrontation over rare spawns. Is every interaction going to result in a new meaningful connection? Absolutely not. In the same vein, some players are simply never going to get anything meaningful out of it in regards to the social element. Either through sheer bad luck or because they've already decided they're not.
Some players have rightfully pointed out that there are some pretty fantastic, in some cases even BIS pieces available from hunts. On the one hand, this makes certain endgame players feel as if they are "forced" to participate. On the other hand, it allows endgame players and casuals to play content together, without the endgame player feeling like there is no way they are going to earn anything of value.
Are hunts perfect? Of course not. The team has definitely learned a lot working on the system, and future incarnations and/or spiritual successors may not look identical to the hunts of Chult. So why weren't their major revisions to hunts between Module 12 and Module 13? Well, there are a couple of reasons. The first is that Module 13's hunts were well into development by the time Module 12's hunts were live and in all of your hands, so there's only so many adjustments that can be made. Second, this set of hunts is coming as part of an extension to the same campaign, in the same setting, and in the same item level band. It would have been incredibly disjointed if they had functioned in an entirely different way.
If we were going to make any major changes to hunts for Module 13 it would have had to be something we were also willing to change about Module 12's hunts. Certainly if any element of it had been a complete disaster, we would've examined and considered making changes to it for both hunt systems. (And we did, in the case of they tyrannosaurus fangs.) Overall though, we felt like the system was achieving many of its goals and that a good number of players were actually enjoying the content.
There are no hidden caps or modifiers of any kind, nor have their been any adjustments to drop rates since launch save the public adjustments to tyrannosaurus fangs that made them significantly easier to obtain.
Weird, I thought for sure only one item could drop per lure when it first launched. I guess me and everyone I know just had really bad luck for the first week.
we would've examined and considered making changes to it for both hunt systems. (And we did, in the case of they tyrannosaurus fangs.)
Please note that there still seems to be some buggy party functionality in the new module 13 tier 1 (rare) rex trophy drops. It only grants one trophy in some situations, regardless of whether the other players hit it or not.
Overall though, we felt like the system was achieving many of its goals and that a good number of players were actually enjoying the content.
Well, you have at least one (me), that's a good enough number for me ... except that I already got everything I wanted that I could realistically obtain from hunts (+5 rings are not realistic), which means I don't run them anymore.
The ability to mail these items was an unintended bug that made it live. Once we realized that it shipped in this manner, and players were using the mailbox like this, we spent a lot of time internally debating about whether to make them unmailable, at the time we decided to leave them as is. It's difficult to say whether it was the right decision or not, but to be completely honest, VIP did not come up in the discussions.
I would say that the decision you made was the right one if the alternative was to force people to only be able to keep one lure in their bag. You would have had an even bigger failure on your hands had you gone that route.
With that said, I'll give you the nod that doing hunts was a fun distraction with a core group of my guildmates...for a short while that is.
Unfortunately, what started as a fun way for a group of us to get together over the weekends and farm hunts turned into an exercise in frustration and futility. After spending most of the weekdays farming trophies to purchase lures, we would usually end the weekends the same way. Having wasted numerous lures and failing to get the next tier trophy to purchase the next tier lure. The levels of RNG behind the system were obviously designed by a HAMSTER.
Sadly, after about 8-9 weeks of going through this routine, we finally got all 3 pieces to get the KOS lure for the first time. Fast forward, many weeks have past and we have yet to run that hunt because we all have zero cares about the entire mod. Yup. Hunt burnout. Who would think that doing the same thing thousands of time and not getting the reward you want would burn people out. And now there's more. No thank you. This mod is another skip like 12b was.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
What if hunts offered seals, and you could use seals in order to buy hunt equipment? So you either play the RNG game, or you eventually just accumulate "Hunter's Glory" or whatever and end up purchasing whatever you want? Bigger hunts give more seals. I get that makes the items considerably less exclusive, though.
@asterdahl At least respond to the stackable thing. •-•
I've already mentioned that we're re-examining this element but I don't want to say anything one way or the other before a decision is made. Also, please don't take this comment as a confirmation that a change is or is not coming, we're always considering making adjustments based on your feedback, but we are also weighing that against the goal of the feature as well as how other elements would have to change to absorb the impact.
That's fair, but I do hope the unanimous support this has on here is being taken into account. I mean, you can't get people on here to completely agree on ANYTHING!!
Let's talk about hunting.We all understand why you did so that the lures would not stacks.All this for pushing players buy Vip.
Although it's understandable to draw this conclusion, it's actually not the case. The ability to mail these items was an unintended bug that made it live. Once we realized that it shipped in this manner, and players were using the mailbox like this, we spent a lot of time internally debating about whether to make them unmailable, at the time we decided to leave them as is. It's difficult to say whether it was the right decision or not, but to be completely honest, VIP did not come up in the discussions.
Well, if you had removed the ability to mail them without making them stackable, I would have never engaged with Hunts at all. I wouldn't have even been tempted. Not even a little bit.
I may be biased, but I'd classify that as a right decision.
Are hunts perfect? Of course not. The team has definitely learned a lot working on the system, and future incarnations and/or spiritual successors may not look identical to the hunts of Chult. So why weren't their major revisions to hunts between Module 12 and Module 13? Well, there are a couple of reasons. The first is that Module 13's hunts were well into development by the time Module 12's hunts were live and in all of your hands, so there's only so many adjustments that can be made. Second, this set of hunts is coming as part of an extension to the same campaign, in the same setting, and in the same item level band. It would have been incredibly disjointed if they had functioned in an entirely different way.
If we were going to make any major changes to hunts for Module 13 it would have had to be something we were also willing to change about Module 12's hunts. Certainly if any element of it had been a complete disaster, we would've examined and considered making changes to it for both hunt systems. (And we did, in the case of they tyrannosaurus fangs.) Overall though, we felt like the system was achieving many of its goals and that a good number of players were actually enjoying the content.
The system could be improved dramatically by adjusting the drop rates of trophies. Currently, it is crazy that Ogres and Batiris have a gazillion spawn points and also have high drop rates, but the rarer spawns are not only much harder to find, but also have much lower drop rates as well. Now you could say that Ogres and Batiris have common drops that each pair with rare drops, but what about Baccho lures? Those lures require Venomtails and Smilodons, both of which have very few spawn points and abysmal drop rates.
I hope at least that M13 hunts are at least a little more even.
What if hunts offered seals, and you could use seals in order to buy hunt equipment? So you either play the RNG game, or you eventually just accumulate "Hunter's Glory" or whatever and end up purchasing whatever you want? Bigger hunts give more seals. I get that makes the items considerably less exclusive, though.
This is a really nice idea!
Taking that a little further, my preference would be to reward a small amount of Seals of the Brave like RD HEs. Maybe 25 Seals per star of the hunt? And award them to everyone in the party. This would give players that can't reliably do Tong a chance to work towards even better gear than can drop and give players a much better reason to group up for hunts than just a totem.
> @pterias said: > Taking that a little further, my preference would be to reward a small amount of Seals of the Brave like RD HEs. Maybe 25 Seals per star of the hunt? And award them to everyone in the party. This would give players that can't reliably do Tong a chance to work towards even better gear than can drop and give players a much better reason to group up for hunts than just a totem.
@asterdahl can you explain how you believe the trophies not stacking contributes to socialisation?
Feedback: Now that I have the T1 Hunts unlocked I can report on a hunt. (See bug reported earlier in thread about "Weekly Haul".)
First up I did Musshussu.
This hunt was very easy, the "boss" posed no particular threat and the few summoned adds did nothing of note. Everything died way to quickly. (16k OP Protector.)
Bug: Musshussu has some sort of AoE attack, this is obscured under the water and very difficult to see, while my OP thought it was amusing I can see this being a big problem for low geared squishy toons.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I hope this is supposed to get a laugh, but it seems his mount is a little small. Partied to do this (I could make Lures, they had the trophy), and he died so fast from 2 end game toons I'm not even sure what he does other than look funny and move a bit.
The fact he was in the Under City made finding him a bit of a drag. But I suppose once the community farms them all and maps it all out it will not matter.
Kutlass Given that he is summoned by the "Horn of the Ape" I was expecting a giant ape, but nope its a cobra headed Ras Nsi thing. I suggest changing the name of his Lure so that it implies Yuan-ti so people have a better idea where to search for his summon point.
Also his summon point is in an odd spot given the location of the Yuan-ti on the map. Putting it pretty much directly across from its current location up against the wall (on the inside near where that group of Yuan-ti spawn under the tree) would make more sense. It would also put a bigger distance between him and Musshussu.
Again 2 end game toons melted him so fast that he didn't really get to do much. I saw his IBS, for us it wasn't a problem, but squishy folk may have to take care.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I appreciate the dev responses here. If making them stackable is out of the question, please consider at least allowing us to hold multiple. They don't have to stack. Part of the reason many don't participate in hunts is in order to use each item acquired, you'd have to significantly alter your daily/weekly grind and flow. "Oops i got a trophy, hold everything i've got to use it so i don't waste the next potential drop!" is the reaction players have when they get one. Which is why it's immediately mailboxed.
Many more would participate if they could save up items acquired, and group up with friends/guildies for a weekly or monthly hunt event when they're ready, without losing any opportunities in the process.
I did the grindfest thing for months after chult hit live. All of a sudden it's like a switch was flipped and I was getting +5 beast slayer rings like it was going out of style. This was a month ago. I ended up with 4 +5 beast slayer and 1 +5 goblin slayer over the course of 2 weeks. RNG is annoying. It made me rather happy to find out that the max pve gear would be earned by seals. and not gotten through RNG. That being said. from what I can see.
I'm glad to see we're getting a bit of RNG relief in the form of +4 rings having x2 offense/defense slots. It makes it so getting a +4 is a very close 2nd to getting a +5 and in most cases will make that player happy that what he got is "good 'nuff".
current +4 rings are considered trash (for those after x2 offense slots) I'm glad to see this will no longer be the case.
Draco Metallum GF - Tank stuff till dead Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
I love the hunts but non stackable and drop rate is killing the fun for my guildies. Also if you want socialization make all quest in open world sareable with party. This would help a lot.
> @thyuberdude said: > I did the grindfest thing for months after chult hit live. All of a sudden it's like a switch was flipped and I was getting +5 beast slayer rings like it was going out of style. This was a month ago. I ended up with 4 +5 beast slayer and 1 +5 goblin slayer over the course of 2 weeks. RNG is annoying. It made me rather happy to find out that the max pve gear would be earned by seals. and not gotten through RNG. That being said. from what I can see. > > I'm glad to see we're getting a bit of RNG relief in the form of +4 rings having x2 offense/defense slots. It makes it so getting a +4 is a very close 2nd to getting a +5 and in most cases will make that player happy that what he got is "good 'nuff". > > current +4 rings are considered trash (for those after x2 offense slots) I'm glad to see this will no longer be the case.
I love that change as well, although its still subject to change i'm glad that the +5 rings are now more of an achievement now rather than something u need for the x2 offensive/defensive stats. While the opposite slots were nice u didnt really need 1 or the other depending on wat u were going for anyways so this is a very good design for the new hunts. Hope this trend continues
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Hunt Gear: @asterdahl Please add a vendor on preview with all of this gear so we can test if it actually functions. I have no interest in farming all the gear on preview to test it, to then have to farm the gear I want to use on live. Some of us just want to test the mechanics on the gear and bug report anything not working properly.
Hunt Gear: @asterdahl Please add a vendor on preview with all of this gear so we can test if it actually functions. I have no interest in farming all the gear on preview to test it, to then have to farm the gear I want to use on live. Some of us just want to test the mechanics on the gear and bug report anything not working properly.
Addendum:
Please add the Zen Store Items (ex: Chultan Tiger) in a vendor so we don't need to wait for developers to be online to be able to test the stuff.
Kutlass Given that he is summoned by the "Horn of the Ape" I was expecting a giant ape, but nope its a cobra headed Ras Nsi thing. I suggest changing the name of his Lure so that it implies Yuan-ti so people have a better idea where to search for his summon point.
Each of the hunt marks has a little short story behind them, in this case, Kutlass is a yuan-ti who hunts apes, hence the horn of the ape. But I believe the lore entry for Kutlass only becomes available when you slay him. Also, I spoke with the content designer who implemented hunts and apparently the lore entries for Module 12 hunts never shipped, so those are being added in with Module 13, and will become available whenever you next slay one of the targets.
We discussed whether we can instead give out the lore entries as soon as you obtain the lure, as a means for potentially getting some hints. It's a bit more difficult, but it may be possible to get that in place for launch.
I appreciate the dev responses here. If making them stackable is out of the question, please consider at least allowing us to hold multiple. They don't have to stack. Part of the reason many don't participate in hunts is in order to use each item acquired, you'd have to significantly alter your daily/weekly grind and flow. "Oops i got a trophy, hold everything i've got to use it so i don't waste the next potential drop!" is the reaction players have when they get one. Which is why it's immediately mailboxed.
Many more would participate if they could save up items acquired, and group up with friends/guildies for a weekly or monthly hunt event when they're ready, without losing any opportunities in the process.
Unfortunately this is the very reason the items are unique and unstackable. As players we want to be as efficient as possible, so farming dozens of the same item and stacking them up to run a ton of hunts all at once is what we'd naturally like to do.
If you can only hold on to one lure and trophy at a time, you must actually hunt the monsters to clear them out. This accomplishes two things, it creates a loop that involves moving back and forth between the port and jungle, as well as various locations in the jungle more often; and it reduces the volume of hunt monsters being spawned and thus loot being dropped, which allows us to make the actual drop rates higher.
Now, that being said, because the items are mailable, it's frustrating, and that friction drives some people away or keeps some people from stacking up completely absurd numbers of the item which keeps the rarity up somewhat. As I mentioned they weren't intended to be mailable, but there was some concern from our software team on making an item unmailable that was still able to be traded, and because the issue was discovered too late we decided to leave it as is.
All of that being said, we're considering what changes we can make. Obviously we know there's a desire to be efficient and hold on to a lot of these, on the other hand we don't want to have to negatively adjust any drop rates.
Comments
There are other consideration like monsters appearing in groups and each one dropping it. A reasonable compromise to that is judge how many appear and set the drop rate accordingly. For example, Braves would always drop, Eotyrranus and Big Claw would each have a 50% drop chance, Venomtails would each have a 33% drop chance, etc.
Oh, and that should be the drop rate for each player that damages it.
We need another T-Rex path, i saw 2 during my exploration, we need at least a third one (if it's not already the case).
This is the same as, "Who wants to go to FBI?"
But it would have been actually much more Social if it wasn't "Want free totems?" But, "I have 20 lures, anyone want free totems?"
I still don't see how making it unique item contributes to sociability. There is a correlation vs causation issue here, a social guild will organize something, the uniqueness and non stack-ability of the items didn't contribute to that. The fact that t-rexs give fangs to parties, you invite your friends. Or if you know someone looking for a specific lure, you try to help.
WoD dragons, are example for now obsolete, but once major group content which is not instanced and queued. There are no non-stackable items there.
Bottom line having content to do, with chase reward, opens the possibility of social interaction, in this case open world content. The lures being non-stackable doesn't contribute to this, on the contrary, it's just a deterrent, as people give up on the system because of the inventory micro management. Make those stackable and there is a good chance that guilds will organize much more hunts, as it becomes more of an actual activity and less wait for a mailbox, or wait until someone go to town to trade trophies for lures.
The issue for me, is not the AH, it's the maximum of one-item in inventory!
I could say the same for you, but I won't, it's kiddish. I'll just suggest you to use google and learn something about it.
What may be comparable equipment for a old/new hunt +5 ring with two offensive slots?
- SKT +5 have low stats, even the TONG-Drop or Seals-Rings are better (but no 2 offensive-slots!)
- Underdark +5: all sudden are worthless. rising power does not get included in powershare, so only rising lifeleach and crit are valuable. and they do not proc on comps, but for that we have:
- IG +4 Rings (btw why +5 have overload-slot? why?
) for comps
so please say, which one is comparable?So here's a crazy suggestion since maybe. Just maybe. This non stackable trophy thing has increased ViP sales. How about a compromise?
How about those with ViP can stack trophies?
Crazy idea right? I meant good god that's just low to make players pay for a QoL improvement and stuff... Oh wait that's already being done. So why not go full tilt and allow those with ViP to stack trophies/lures. I know some might say it's a slippery slope but lets face it. The current hunt system is already encouraging ViP for the mailbox.. This just cuts out the BS.
Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead
Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead
Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
Stackability is an issue raised by a lot of people but i'm not going to cut the line with this alone. I honestly gave up on hunting because I couldn't socialize anymore with progressing along this ladder.. i'm not talking about drop rates for gear because that itself could have been the throttling necessary to mandate grinding.. But you went ahead and implemented this layer of rng to even progress across this ladder and this is where I accepted defeat and called it fate. From my last negative criticism on hunts upto to this point, nothing has changed and the very implementation that I loathe extremely is making its way towards the next major update to the game.. Hunting could have been a nice open world activity but the implementation is not fun.. Listen to the players on this.
It's very difficult for a lot of players to justify logging on just to socialize. If you've been a long time player and are part of an established guild that already had plenty of players online and socializing before hunts were added, you maybe had a routine that involved doing dailies and socializing while you do those. But a lot of people playing that sort of content will maybe be watching a streaming service and sort of mindlessly playing. In dungeons, some players might be happy to keep socializing as they play but plenty of players are too focused on playing the content to be able to enjoy socializing.
Hunts serves as content that is an excuse for people to hang out, and gives players an opportunity to bump into each other, whether it's trading lures and trophies, or even having a confrontation over rare spawns. Is every interaction going to result in a new meaningful connection? Absolutely not. In the same vein, some players are simply never going to get anything meaningful out of it in regards to the social element. Either through sheer bad luck or because they've already decided they're not.
Some players have rightfully pointed out that there are some pretty fantastic, in some cases even BIS pieces available from hunts. On the one hand, this makes certain endgame players feel as if they are "forced" to participate. On the other hand, it allows endgame players and casuals to play content together, without the endgame player feeling like there is no way they are going to earn anything of value.
Are hunts perfect? Of course not. The team has definitely learned a lot working on the system, and future incarnations and/or spiritual successors may not look identical to the hunts of Chult. So why weren't their major revisions to hunts between Module 12 and Module 13? Well, there are a couple of reasons. The first is that Module 13's hunts were well into development by the time Module 12's hunts were live and in all of your hands, so there's only so many adjustments that can be made. Second, this set of hunts is coming as part of an extension to the same campaign, in the same setting, and in the same item level band. It would have been incredibly disjointed if they had functioned in an entirely different way.
If we were going to make any major changes to hunts for Module 13 it would have had to be something we were also willing to change about Module 12's hunts. Certainly if any element of it had been a complete disaster, we would've examined and considered making changes to it for both hunt systems. (And we did, in the case of they tyrannosaurus fangs.) Overall though, we felt like the system was achieving many of its goals and that a good number of players were actually enjoying the content.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
With that said, I'll give you the nod that doing hunts was a fun distraction with a core group of my guildmates...for a short while that is.
Unfortunately, what started as a fun way for a group of us to get together over the weekends and farm hunts turned into an exercise in frustration and futility. After spending most of the weekdays farming trophies to purchase lures, we would usually end the weekends the same way. Having wasted numerous lures and failing to get the next tier trophy to purchase the next tier lure. The levels of RNG behind the system were obviously designed by a HAMSTER.
Sadly, after about 8-9 weeks of going through this routine, we finally got all 3 pieces to get the KOS lure for the first time. Fast forward, many weeks have past and we have yet to run that hunt because we all have zero cares about the entire mod. Yup. Hunt burnout. Who would think that doing the same thing thousands of time and not getting the reward you want would burn people out. And now there's more. No thank you. This mod is another skip like 12b was.
Well, if you had removed the ability to mail them without making them stackable, I would have never engaged with Hunts at all. I wouldn't have even been tempted. Not even a little bit.
I may be biased, but I'd classify that as a right decision.
The system could be improved dramatically by adjusting the drop rates of trophies. Currently, it is crazy that Ogres and Batiris have a gazillion spawn points and also have high drop rates, but the rarer spawns are not only much harder to find, but also have much lower drop rates as well. Now you could say that Ogres and Batiris have common drops that each pair with rare drops, but what about Baccho lures? Those lures require Venomtails and Smilodons, both of which have very few spawn points and abysmal drop rates.
I hope at least that M13 hunts are at least a little more even.
--- This is a really nice idea!
Taking that a little further, my preference would be to reward a small amount of Seals of the Brave like RD HEs. Maybe 25 Seals per star of the hunt? And award them to everyone in the party. This would give players that can't reliably do Tong a chance to work towards even better gear than can drop and give players a much better reason to group up for hunts than just a totem.
> Taking that a little further, my preference would be to reward a small amount of Seals of the Brave like RD HEs. Maybe 25 Seals per star of the hunt? And award them to everyone in the party. This would give players that can't reliably do Tong a chance to work towards even better gear than can drop and give players a much better reason to group up for hunts than just a totem.
No... cx Just no
Feedback:
Now that I have the T1 Hunts unlocked I can report on a hunt. (See bug reported earlier in thread about "Weekly Haul".)
First up I did Musshussu.
This hunt was very easy, the "boss" posed no particular threat and the few summoned adds did nothing of note. Everything died way to quickly. (16k OP Protector.)
Bug:
Musshussu has some sort of AoE attack, this is obscured under the water and very difficult to see, while my OP thought it was amusing I can see this being a big problem for low geared squishy toons.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Redfang
I hope this is supposed to get a laugh, but it seems his mount is a little small. Partied to do this (I could make Lures, they had the trophy), and he died so fast from 2 end game toons I'm not even sure what he does other than look funny and move a bit.
The fact he was in the Under City made finding him a bit of a drag. But I suppose once the community farms them all and maps it all out it will not matter.
Kutlass
Given that he is summoned by the "Horn of the Ape" I was expecting a giant ape, but nope its a cobra headed Ras Nsi thing. I suggest changing the name of his Lure so that it implies Yuan-ti so people have a better idea where to search for his summon point.
Also his summon point is in an odd spot given the location of the Yuan-ti on the map. Putting it pretty much directly across from its current location up against the wall (on the inside near where that group of Yuan-ti spawn under the tree) would make more sense. It would also put a bigger distance between him and Musshussu.
Again 2 end game toons melted him so fast that he didn't really get to do much. I saw his IBS, for us it wasn't a problem,
but squishy folk may have to take care.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Many more would participate if they could save up items acquired, and group up with friends/guildies for a weekly or monthly hunt event when they're ready, without losing any opportunities in the process.
I'm glad to see we're getting a bit of RNG relief in the form of +4 rings having x2 offense/defense slots. It makes it so getting a +4 is a very close 2nd to getting a +5 and in most cases will make that player happy that what he got is "good 'nuff".
current +4 rings are considered trash (for those after x2 offense slots) I'm glad to see this will no longer be the case.
Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead
Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead
Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
> I did the grindfest thing for months after chult hit live. All of a sudden it's like a switch was flipped and I was getting +5 beast slayer rings like it was going out of style. This was a month ago. I ended up with 4 +5 beast slayer and 1 +5 goblin slayer over the course of 2 weeks. RNG is annoying. It made me rather happy to find out that the max pve gear would be earned by seals. and not gotten through RNG. That being said. from what I can see.
>
> I'm glad to see we're getting a bit of RNG relief in the form of +4 rings having x2 offense/defense slots. It makes it so getting a +4 is a very close 2nd to getting a +5 and in most cases will make that player happy that what he got is "good 'nuff".
>
> current +4 rings are considered trash (for those after x2 offense slots) I'm glad to see this will no longer be the case.
I love that change as well, although its still subject to change i'm glad that the +5 rings are now more of an achievement now rather than something u need for the x2 offensive/defensive stats. While the opposite slots were nice u didnt really need 1 or the other depending on wat u were going for anyways so this is a very good design for the new hunts. Hope this trend continues
@asterdahl
Please add a vendor on preview with all of this gear so we can test if it actually functions. I have no interest in farming all the gear on preview to test it, to then have to farm the gear I want to use on live. Some of us just want to test the mechanics on the gear and bug report anything not working properly.
Please add the Zen Store Items (ex: Chultan Tiger) in a vendor so we don't need to wait for developers to be online to be able to test the stuff.
We discussed whether we can instead give out the lore entries as soon as you obtain the lure, as a means for potentially getting some hints. It's a bit more difficult, but it may be possible to get that in place for launch. Unfortunately this is the very reason the items are unique and unstackable. As players we want to be as efficient as possible, so farming dozens of the same item and stacking them up to run a ton of hunts all at once is what we'd naturally like to do.
If you can only hold on to one lure and trophy at a time, you must actually hunt the monsters to clear them out. This accomplishes two things, it creates a loop that involves moving back and forth between the port and jungle, as well as various locations in the jungle more often; and it reduces the volume of hunt monsters being spawned and thus loot being dropped, which allows us to make the actual drop rates higher.
Now, that being said, because the items are mailable, it's frustrating, and that friction drives some people away or keeps some people from stacking up completely absurd numbers of the item which keeps the rarity up somewhat. As I mentioned they weren't intended to be mailable, but there was some concern from our software team on making an item unmailable that was still able to be traded, and because the issue was discovered too late we decided to leave it as is.
All of that being said, we're considering what changes we can make. Obviously we know there's a desire to be efficient and hold on to a lot of these, on the other hand we don't want to have to negatively adjust any drop rates.