Suggestion: put the foundry behind a paywall

elvalianon
elvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
edited January 2018 in Player Feedback (PC)
So, I and many others have made numerous suggestions as to how to improve the foundry and make it viable again. This includes some awesome ideas, of which some have peeked interest from devs in the forums who would like to see it come to live again as well. However, each time the argument against any progress seems to be the lack of time (and thus money) to spend on the foundry as it's all the way down on the priority list.

My suggestion therefore is: Why not put the foundry behind a paywall?

Currently it's not viable anymore in game and only used by people who truly enjoy making and playing them, aka the roleplay community and foundry fans. Taking it away as a free expansion therefor shouldn't leave too much of an impact. Technically, It literally has no function other than just being there at the moment.

By putting it behind a paywall I mean a monthly subscription similar to VIP or a single purchase if that would do the funding, like a foundry pack. This would then unlock the features to play and build foundries. To make it interesting rewards could be granted to foundry builders and players, similar to what it used to be for authors, unlocking achievements with unique or interesting items. In addition players and authors could also gather materials to craft legendary dragon or campaign keys by gaining reviews and making plays. That way exploits remain minor as it's quite some effort to build/play, perhaps additionally craft? keys which you then have to be used again by playing content. I'm sure more options for cool not as exploitable rewards are possible, so feel free to add to that in the comments if anyone has an idea.

I still strongly believe the foundry could be a popular asset of Neverwinter Online if made viable. If improved, catering to not only dungeon builders and dwellers, but also table top lovers who want to visualize their adventurers as well.



Comments

  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    Putting things behind paywalls is literally EXACTLY why people won't do it. Ones who wanted to do it before may do it (or may quit because it's a HAMSTER paywall), but no one new will want to join because there are no real benefits like VIP has, so no one will ever try it.

    Paywalls are how you kill features, not bring them back.
  • cilginordek
    cilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User


    Paywalls are how you kill features, not bring them back.

    You can't kill what is already dead.
    I'd pay for foundry to be part of the game again.
  • iandarksword
    iandarksword Member Posts: 976 Arc User
    The game is labeled "Free-to-play" and the Foundry should be as well. Do you want to lock PvP behind a paywall? Dungeons? Endgame content? Do you want to fast-lane players willing to pay a premium for queue priority? Where does the slippery slope end?
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
    Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
    Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
  • xxmantaraxx
    xxmantaraxx Member Posts: 361 Arc User
    edited January 2018

    The game is labeled "Free-to-play" and the Foundry should be as well. Do you want to lock PvP behind a paywall? Dungeons? Endgame content? Do you want to fast-lane players willing to pay a premium for queue priority? Where does the slippery slope end?

    The foundry is a different animal. It has been killed by the company because of bot farming exploits. I would gladly pay a subscription to have access to the awesome content that has been created for it. Tell me @iandarksword did you use the foundry to make content? Did you actively play content created by the the amazing foundry community? Did you tip them AD for their time and effort creating amazing stories inside the D&D world? I did and I miss it alot.

    I and many others that support this game with our monies will gladly pay for a VIP like service that offers us the wonderful content that was available in the past. I believe by puting the majore parts of the foundry behind a service gets rid of some of the huge problems that killed it: bots and because of bots no rewards for playing. If you dont have "foundry VIP" (Patron would be a good word for it) you cant play more than 1 foundry mission a day, foundry missions should drop no items whatsoever but should have a reward of rAD and RP in a chest at the end. This kills botting but gives incentive to play player created content like the AD reward for doing foundry content in the past. Being a "Patron" would allow you to partake in more foundry content daily and maybe some other levels of increase to reward for playing. this whole endevor could be wrapped around a foundry campaign that gives out titles and boons and maybe a special ACCOUNT BOUND utility enchant that increases XP gain and movement speed

    Ara Atheanes GWF
    Traxus Atheanes GF
    Bastiel Atheanes DC
    Ellara Atheanes CW
    Keira Atheanes TR
    Sarasin Atheanes SW
    Jerkface McGee HR
    -MANTARA- OP

  • grogthemagnif
    grogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User

    So, I and many others have made numerous suggestions as to how to improve the foundry and make it viable again. This includes some awesome ideas, of which some have peeked interest from devs in the forums who would like to see it come to live again as well. However, each time the argument against any progress seems to be the lack of time (and thus money) to spend on the foundry as it's all the way down on the priority list.

    My suggestion therefore is: Why not put the foundry behind a paywall?

    Currently it's not viable anymore in game and only used by people who truly enjoy making and playing them, aka the roleplay community and foundry fans. Taking it away as a free expansion therefor shouldn't leave too much of an impact. Technically, It literally has no function other than just being there at the moment.

    By putting it behind a paywall I mean a monthly subscription similar to VIP or a single purchase if that would do the funding, like a foundry pack. This would then unlock the features to play and build foundries. To make it interesting rewards could be granted to foundry builders and players, similar to what it used to be for authors, unlocking achievements with unique or interesting items. In addition players and authors could also gather materials to craft legendary dragon or campaign keys by gaining reviews and making plays. That way exploits remain minor as it's quite some effort to build/play, perhaps additionally craft? keys which you then have to be used again by playing content. I'm sure more options for cool not as exploitable rewards are possible, so feel free to add to that in the comments if anyone has an idea.

    I still strongly believe the foundry could be a popular asset of Neverwinter Online if made viable. If improved, catering to not only dungeon builders and dwellers, but also table top lovers who want to visualize their adventurers as well.



    Most of those who did Foundry Quests like the "Pay as you leave" idea and the AD Generated gave authors an incentive to do more quests along the same Questline.
  • reiwulf
    reiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    We can all say it shouldn't have any money needed, and while it's true, that's not gonna change a thing. we've been asking cryptic to step up their game in the foundry fro YEARS and absolutely no results. the foundry is still mostly down all year long, still we hardly get anything new for it, still we have the sme bugs as always. and the reply we'0ve been given is always the same, it doesn't bring in revenue. Simple as that. so what should we change so they care more about it? having it bring revenue. Money talks and we all know that.
    While i agree that a subscription to the foundry would be cheap, what they could do is leave the base foundry (the one we have) free of charge but sell stuff for it in the store. Things like:
    -Foundry quest slots
    -Foundry thematic packs (maybe per each DLC we've got in all of these years or per theme, like feywild theme, undead theme)
    -Foundry additional features (bosses, cinematic camera movement, etc)

    This of course only would be worth a damn if they would work so that the foundry is up always or mostly always, but if it starts bringing them, revenue they would care more about it.

    Wouold this cause a difference between the haves and have nots? of course, but those differences already exist in all other game modes, so why should the foundry be any different?

    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    I think the best "solution" to fix the Foundry, to prevent trolls from abusing it, making bad stories is to charge AD to publish. I don't recall who suggested this, but it was one of the Foundry authors on Facebook some time back. I wouldn't mind shelling out Gold or AD to publish and it would make those who want to abuse it think twice before doing so. Gold and AD authors would not require cash, just have to play the game. Thus the Foundry remains free for everyone.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User


    The foundry is a different animal. It has been killed by the company because of bot farming exploits. I would gladly pay a subscription to have access to the awesome content that has been created for it.

    The Foundry has been IGNORED by Cryptic since they apparently have a bug list a mile long still on the official wiki, if you care so much take a good long read here.

    Tell me @iandarksword did you use the foundry to make content? Did you actively play content created by the the amazing foundry community? Did you tip them AD for their time and effort creating amazing stories inside the D&D world? I did and I miss it alot.

    Obviously you do miss "a lot" since Iandarksword has Foundry content in his siggy! I am friends with Ian and he is online more than anyone else I know of and very much a vocal advocate of the Foundry.


    I and many others that support this game with our monies will gladly pay for a VIP like service that offers us the wonderful content that was available in the past. I believe by puting the majore parts of the foundry behind a service gets rid of some of the huge problems that killed it: bots and because of bots no rewards for playing.

    Here you assume Ian is not a paying customer and no player has a tag to state otherwise. Also once again bots didn't wreck the Foundry, Cryptic did that by not keeping it repaired. Money is not the issue, unless you are Cryptic, I understand they made this game to generate revenues, but they need to either say "Free to Play" or "Subscription" not both.


    If you dont have "foundry VIP" (Patron would be a good word for it) you cant play more than 1 foundry mission a day, foundry missions should drop no items whatsoever but should have a reward of rAD and RP in a chest at the end. This kills botting but gives incentive to play player created content like the AD reward for doing foundry content in the past. Being a "Patron" would allow you to partake in more foundry content daily and maybe some other levels of increase to reward for playing. this whole endevor could be wrapped around a foundry campaign that gives out titles and boons and maybe a special ACCOUNT BOUND utility enchant that increases XP gain and movement speed

    I have tried VIP twice, so yeah I am a rank 2, but it is not something I am going to keep going after. It is just $10 a month but just something to entice you to jump online to pick up keys nothing else. Keys for virtual nothingness. While I am a retired person, people like Ian work jobs daily and he has to be more of a fan of this game than I am. This thread is talking about making the Foundry a tool for an elitist group.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • klangeddin
    klangeddin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Foundry has always been a maketing ploy to get you interested in the game and advertising it with its own "unique" feature.
    Especially for the former Neverinter Nights playerbase, who had a POWERFUL toolset that enabled them to make their own adventures. That toolset, developed initially about 15 years ago or more I'd wager, was better than what the Foundry here has ever been.
    If they wanted the foundry to be a significant part of this game, they would have overhauled it by now.
    They would have adressed rewards, exploits, added new features, expanded it, like they did, at least once, with every other part of the game. You realize the game is almost 5 years old, yes? How long does it take for this "awesome" (rollseyes) feature to actually live up to its name? 10 years?
    They overhauled PvE, They overhauled PvP, they ouvrhauled classes, they overhaul refinement system (twice), why is Foundry the only feature that is pretty much still stuck at release? (yeah they did minor asset additions over time, but that's not what I'm talking about.)

    In its current state, it does not warrant a pay wall. In fact, it's not even worth playing it for free! How would putting a paywall behind it improve it?
    Either way, I don't care, it's dead, and if you want to throw money at it in the vain hope to revive it, feel free, it's your money after all.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    The Foundry is in a sad, sad state. I was a Neverwinter Nights toolset user in the past (and actually did quite a bit of work on tilesets), the Foundry was one of the features that attracted me to NWO, but the sad fact is that it does not really live up to expectations.

    The big problem is the absolute lack of rewards - from the players' point of view, running Foundry quests is not worth their time, and that reduces their interest - the developers see few people actively using Foundry, and it becomes a low priority.

    Unless this fundamental problem can be solved (how to make foundry give meaningful results, without being easy to abuse), it will remain unpopular.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • elvalianon
    elvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited January 2018

    Putting things behind paywalls is literally EXACTLY why people won't do it. Ones who wanted to do it before may do it (or may quit because it's a HAMSTER paywall), but no one new will want to join because there are no real benefits like VIP has, so no one will ever try it.

    Paywalls are how you kill features, not bring them back.

    I would and know people who would gladly pay to be able to use the foundry again, that's if they would improve it and make it viable again.

    The game is labeled "Free-to-play" and the Foundry should be as well. Do you want to lock PvP behind a paywall? Dungeons? Endgame content? Do you want to fast-lane players willing to pay a premium for queue priority? Where does the slippery slope end?

    Of course not! The foundry is no longer part of the game as its mostly dead anyway in its current stage and serves no purpose other than "Oh that could be fun... if it actually worked!"

    "Free to play" doesn't mean it's 100% free. Did you forget this game is made by a business? They make money in various ways, lock boxes, race packs, mounts etc. Why not add the foundry as a optional expansion to it?


    I believe by puting the majore parts of the foundry behind a service gets rid of some of the huge problems that killed it: bots and because of bots no rewards for playing. If you dont have "foundry VIP" (Patron would be a good word for it) you cant play more than 1 foundry mission a day, foundry missions should drop no items whatsoever but should have a reward of rAD and RP in a chest at the end. This kills botting but gives incentive to play player created content like the AD reward for doing foundry content in the past.

    Exactly my point. Also interesting thoughts. I've written and seen numerous feedback about a campaign surrounding the foundry before and hope that this might become a thing one day. However, I do not think that a foundry campaign should be behind a pay wall, this I consider a step too far.


    In its current state, it does not warrant a pay wall. In fact, it's not even worth playing it for free! How would putting a paywall behind it improve it?

    Well obviously they would have to improve it first. ;)
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    That just goes back to what I said earlier - it would be just that bunch of people doing it. So no new people would be willing to pay to experiment with a feature they know nothing of, and the people doing the foundry stuff would sooner or later get bored of it and stop. So it would just fade away, one by one. Rather than a paywall, make it require a certain amount of hours or smth, if that's what's so important to ya.
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    We "had" some real great Foundry Authors prior to Mod 6. After Elemental Evil, Scott disposed of the Foundry hour and the AD reward making the reward and the 15 minute qualification absolutely pointless. Now before any of you tell me what works, I started on STO because I read an article about the Foundry being developed for Neverwinter. So I joined STO and played until I made 10K AD to buy in to the Foundry, since the Foundry on STO used character slots, I then purchased (cash to zen) for a few additional Foundry characters. STO Foundry was limited to 2D editing and I learned it there (even though I do not like Star Trek). I made 2 complete Federation and 2 complete Klingon missions in that time. But here on Neverwinter, I only have one and been working on the second because Cryptic will NOT keep it up and running.

    Meanwhile back on STO, my friends and authors there have a FREE and working Foundry. Currently up and active. I went back to STO to check on my Foundries, one has over 10K in tips. I will never use it, but I thank those who enjoyed my work, and this is WORK. Foundry authors work their butts off, so other players can enjoy this game. We get no reward other than tips and I don't even want the tips! I just want a working editor as active as STO has currently.

    Some of you are under the delusion that making the broken editor a pay only exclusive item is somehow a good thing? So if that happens (which I seriously doubt) it will be adios and I will fade away like so many of my friends who worked on STO and came here to help Cryptic sell a game based on UGC. I won't pay for a broken editor and neither will new players.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • iandarksword
    iandarksword Member Posts: 976 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Unfortunately, I don't think there is a large enough active foundry community to generate the needed income to support what you guys are proposing. There also is very limited overall player interest given the lack of rewards attained from actually playing the published quests. At this conjecture, there isn't even a functional editor over two and a half months after a mid-module update. There is already a way to support the game by buying Zen, which I do in fact do, some because I enjoy the game, have been a fan of the Forgotten Realms setting, gotten to know several devs via Twitter and they seem like pretty worthy folks. Also, because I don't play consoles like I used to, I budget for it responsibly. That doesn't mean the next player doesn't grind for hours and hours to not pay a dime in order to have a similar experience, hence, the "Free-to-Play" moniker.

    How come you guys aren't asking people to simply make more Zen purchases? All the money budgeted from Zen sales after the publisher gets their cut, regardless of whether it be on bags, companions, character slots, or even your proposals, goes toward the overall game development. There's no way you can guarantee that the Zen sales from this proposal would go specifically towards earmarked Foundry development. Sure, we can appeal here on the forums for the areas of the game we'd like to see improved, but they end up merely being recommendations. They rely on metrics, and are reactive to player trends, not proactive. We are consumers in this equation, not shareholders. We do not get to say what the developers spend the budget towards, we can only play that which is given to us, or choose to look elsewhere for entertainment.

    Would I pay to have access to the editor? No. It is down more that it is up, and with limited interest from the player base, I don't see a return for what would be spent for access. Would I pay for extra quest slots in excess of the default fifteen? It depends on the cost. If it's similar in cost to character slots, then maybe. Then again, if no one is playing quests beyond the most accessible top 5 "Best" quests, or whatever top 5 are being "Featured", then it's not really worth purchasing the extra slots. I have been a member of these forums since prior to their merge following the sale of the rights to Neverwinter Online from Atari to Perfect World. All of the top "Best" quests have been around since alpha or beta and are ranked as high as they are based on the sheer number of overall plays and reviews received since they were first published. No recent quests could amass those numbers, given the limited interest presently, the overall player base has simply dwindled too much since the early days. Would I pay for "premium" assets? That didn't work too well for Sword Coast Legends, and in the end, the developer N-Space closed down. That also creates a two tier system of authors, those who can afford to buy the assets and those who can't. Players would be drawn to quests that use the "newer, shinier" assets and not toward quests that are from authors that can't afford to purchase the assets. You have to sacrifice game play and time to earn in-game currency to create quests in the current system. Authors' characters are often more under-geared due to the trade-off, the grind to compete would drive many new authors away from creating quests. It would narrow a community that can't afford to get narrower at this point in the game's history.
    Post edited by iandarksword on
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
    Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
    Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
  • hustin1
    hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    A really simple solution for getting people to use the Foundry would be to bring back Foundry hour, but only with featured quests to prevent abuse. This requires some effort on Cryptic's part to actually start Featuring quests again. When was the last time any quest was featured? It's been so long I can't remember.

    They could sweeten the deal with something that was brought up sometime during the Late Heavy Bombardment: let players earn Foundry Doubloons that they can spend on exclusive items (mounts, companions, transmutes, dyes, what-have-you). Once again, limit it to playing featured quests to prevent abuse. If they want to monetize it, put the items in a Zen store category where you spend Doubloons first to unlock the item, then spend Zen to actually buy it.

    This is not rocket science! They just have to decide to give a damn.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • dafrca#4810
    dafrca#4810 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    I joined the game in August. After spending a couple of months trying to play a foundry story line I gave up. The reality is I lost interest in the foundry not for a lack of rewards, but for a lack of access. The number of times I tried to jump in that it was down is what killed it for me.

    Would I pay for access? Not in the present state and I do not see how I could be sure it was not still down more then up before I pay up. If it was stable and seemed to be working at least 90% of the time would I pay? Based on the cost, yes I would.

    But like I said above, because it now has a reputation of being dead, it would need a lot of effort to bring it back to a level worth paying for.