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We need a Team Competitive Queue /w Leaderboard
chiennedeluxe
Member Posts: 111 Arc User
@rgutscheradev @mimicking#6533 @noworries#8859 @asterdahl @nitocris83 @sgrantdev#8718
Hello Everyone,
I’m dishearten to say this but the competitive side of PVP is DEAD, it’s been a long ride from the launch of the game until now, but the game bleeded almost all of the competitive players at the point running a premade versus premade it’s not possible thanks to the lack of players, what is left in the PvP matches right now are a handful of premade material players, a bunch of solo queuers and alot of new players with 8k-9k item level, with no chance for them to gear up by doing PVP, so the way things are right now seeing 2 Premade Groups ever use the private queue in the future it will never happen, the way that Domination Queue works it doesn’t make new players to be Competitive, they just queue and quit every match they go in, and they do not learn atleast the basics of fighting on node, capping a node, node rotating etc.
IMO SOLO QUEUE IT’S NOT THE ANSWER!!!!
There are different reasons why PvP Players quit the game, from class balance, from grinding being way to difficult, the gear gap etc. But i belive that the main reason that players quit is that neverwinter didn’t offered the tools needed to keep you being addicted to PvP, and the answer on WHY the nw team didn’t try to make PvP Competitive side better i do not have!? What i think all of the competitive players waited for is a platform where Premades can test their might against eachother, Private queue is indeed a good addition, but players do not have any incentive, or sense of progression by playing Private queue, and to save PvP we need constructive and progressive changes to PvP to make it COMPETITIVE again, so basically a fair- play platform with interesting rewards to make PvP Groups that are EQUAL fight eachother.
So for that reason a group of PvP players talked about it and we think that making a Team Competitive Leaderboard could be the answer to secure the future of Competitive Play, How is a Team Competitve Queue and Leaderboard supposed to work?
So what PvP lacks is a Competitive experience for PVP teams, available to all players of different skill levels, We need to make it feel more like your own personal esport experience where you can form lasting bonds and fight against others for rewards that matter. Well the PvP Teams will not be the same as the Guilds, so that means 5 players can be in different Guilds, but in the same PVP Team, there will definitely need to be some UI Changes, when looking in the Leaderboard Tab, right now we can see 3 Tabs there ‘OverView” “History” and “Standing” , so we need an extra tab for Team Competitive in which we will have a Window that lets us to invite by @handle our team members and also choose a Team Name, that will only be visible in a 5v5 Only queue(Competitive Queue), so in this Queue you will not be allowed to Queue, if you your group isn’t from the same Team. Of course in this queue if there aren’t any rewards, it will be no difference between private queue and the requested Competitive Queue, so we need REWARDS for those that just participate, and those Teams that will score in the first 3-4 places. Rewards such as : refining points, titltes, transmutes, mount skins, maybe in a Campaign format that perhaps each 3 months resets itself so you have to redo it all again and unlock rewards that were slightly changed each season, like different mount colors etc. Maybe bringing the NCL with the Team Based Competitive Queue, so PvP matches will reward you with NCL currency that you can spend on the NCL VENDOR for enchantments, mounts etc.
This sort of Queue will definitely change and help the PvP Community, and it can bring alot of old players and also it will offer the new players a better experience atleast learning the basics to the PvP objectives and at the same time offering a professional experience, and helping into making long lasting bonds with others, And hopefully the PvP can be once again filled with alot of players with the fitting platform in which they can excel.
Think of this for all of the platforms and servers that will change their way they do PvP.
So i ask everyone to support this idea, please vote if you want it or if you dont, and elaborate into a post, why you think so.
(@MODERATORS if its possible to add a poll with Yes/ No )
Hello Everyone,
I’m dishearten to say this but the competitive side of PVP is DEAD, it’s been a long ride from the launch of the game until now, but the game bleeded almost all of the competitive players at the point running a premade versus premade it’s not possible thanks to the lack of players, what is left in the PvP matches right now are a handful of premade material players, a bunch of solo queuers and alot of new players with 8k-9k item level, with no chance for them to gear up by doing PVP, so the way things are right now seeing 2 Premade Groups ever use the private queue in the future it will never happen, the way that Domination Queue works it doesn’t make new players to be Competitive, they just queue and quit every match they go in, and they do not learn atleast the basics of fighting on node, capping a node, node rotating etc.
IMO SOLO QUEUE IT’S NOT THE ANSWER!!!!
There are different reasons why PvP Players quit the game, from class balance, from grinding being way to difficult, the gear gap etc. But i belive that the main reason that players quit is that neverwinter didn’t offered the tools needed to keep you being addicted to PvP, and the answer on WHY the nw team didn’t try to make PvP Competitive side better i do not have!? What i think all of the competitive players waited for is a platform where Premades can test their might against eachother, Private queue is indeed a good addition, but players do not have any incentive, or sense of progression by playing Private queue, and to save PvP we need constructive and progressive changes to PvP to make it COMPETITIVE again, so basically a fair- play platform with interesting rewards to make PvP Groups that are EQUAL fight eachother.
So for that reason a group of PvP players talked about it and we think that making a Team Competitive Leaderboard could be the answer to secure the future of Competitive Play, How is a Team Competitve Queue and Leaderboard supposed to work?
So what PvP lacks is a Competitive experience for PVP teams, available to all players of different skill levels, We need to make it feel more like your own personal esport experience where you can form lasting bonds and fight against others for rewards that matter. Well the PvP Teams will not be the same as the Guilds, so that means 5 players can be in different Guilds, but in the same PVP Team, there will definitely need to be some UI Changes, when looking in the Leaderboard Tab, right now we can see 3 Tabs there ‘OverView” “History” and “Standing” , so we need an extra tab for Team Competitive in which we will have a Window that lets us to invite by @handle our team members and also choose a Team Name, that will only be visible in a 5v5 Only queue(Competitive Queue), so in this Queue you will not be allowed to Queue, if you your group isn’t from the same Team. Of course in this queue if there aren’t any rewards, it will be no difference between private queue and the requested Competitive Queue, so we need REWARDS for those that just participate, and those Teams that will score in the first 3-4 places. Rewards such as : refining points, titltes, transmutes, mount skins, maybe in a Campaign format that perhaps each 3 months resets itself so you have to redo it all again and unlock rewards that were slightly changed each season, like different mount colors etc. Maybe bringing the NCL with the Team Based Competitive Queue, so PvP matches will reward you with NCL currency that you can spend on the NCL VENDOR for enchantments, mounts etc.
This sort of Queue will definitely change and help the PvP Community, and it can bring alot of old players and also it will offer the new players a better experience atleast learning the basics to the PvP objectives and at the same time offering a professional experience, and helping into making long lasting bonds with others, And hopefully the PvP can be once again filled with alot of players with the fitting platform in which they can excel.
Think of this for all of the platforms and servers that will change their way they do PvP.
So i ask everyone to support this idea, please vote if you want it or if you dont, and elaborate into a post, why you think so.
(@MODERATORS if its possible to add a poll with Yes/ No )
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Comments
I think it's too late, dumb players are fighting off nodes and think they know the game, because of their stats.
just by cutting the gear score pool in half you will have a better competitive feel of it.
I start playing end of mod1, all I see his monkeys jumping around off nodes hitting each others.
Can you imagine the game is dying since mod3, where we couldn't go to icewind pass or dwarven valley with our friends, always ending up in different instance. At Tiamat, couldnt play with our friends. And solo pvp Q where we cant pvp with our friends.... a mmo played like a single player game. Yeah I say "dying game" because of the stat of steam http://steamcharts.com/app/109600 (they only rise is for the winter fest).
Nice initiative for the post, but I think it's too late. DEVs are not listening to the right people, DEVs are trapped with a bag full of bugs.
Solo Queue practically destroyed what was left of the game after strongholds (yes SHs ruined the game-forcing pve and pvp people co-exist in guilds etc wasn't the best for some). Still though many players stayed in the game and were keep playing, despite the endless grinding. Solo Queue put the last nail on the coffin of pvp though. And the point is not only to bring some players back that were already pvping in teams, the point is to encourage players that remain in the game q with a team and not alone. I think everyone wants to be able to q with their friends rather than play alone. We all remember how much fun we had in NCL.
if the PVP has only been reduced to the single queue with ppls 3-4k undergeared (afk after 10 sec of domination unkickable also!) maybe against 3-4 bis chars in other team thanks but i prefer play some pve, instead get a cancer 9/10 domination without rewards and fun... i tried a lot of times to make a party for private q 5 vs 5 but with lack of players we are really 9-10 for play some good matches,also for organize need some hours LOL ,and,after they complaing also for unbalance of classes.... soo many times i did pvp with my gwf because they wont TR's cause SoD... soo i cant play with my main...
i had fun in mod 10 and 11 really was funny mod about pvp without private q also... now pvp is a trash.... waiting for some changes...
im sorry for my terrible english as always xD
I'm doing PvP and only PvP from the end of mod3 ( just the necessary pve content for my toon progression/item ), and what there is now is just a shadow of what PvP was in the past.
Like someother said, it's a "chaotic pug fest", or, like i call it, a "pugroulette".
People in dominion now are totally unaware of what to do, wrong stat, fighting outside the node, no one rotating, and so many trash that is literally impossible to define what is now dominion.
The PvP community of the past asked many, many, and many times for a private que, for the NCL, for some kind of reward for make PvP more appetible, better class balance, better matchmaking, but everything that was done comed out so late that now , a lot of PvP player has totally left the game ( for the problem that you already discussed ) or converted to PvE, and there are no player left for a premade ( tried recently to do a PRE with 2 team, not enought player was online ) even in private.
We tryed to make our own channel for organize with other player, but , actually, the discussion are not NW relative, and no one try to organise premade anymore.
PvP in neverwinter was awesome in the past, and running in premade was the best part of the game ( for me ).
Your idea is great, and i really hope that dev will listen and apply it in game as fast as they can, like the primary objective for the future.
I'm done playing PvP for multiple reason already mentioned by @chiennedeluxe , also i think this game is all about "frustration" .
When you play 15,20 PvP match per day and the only reward is " glory , some AD(lol) and a piece of green or blue unidentified item (lol²) but to be competitive in PvP you need to grind a lot to get your stuff and also enchants , mounts , insignia etc ... Rewards for PvP players are inexistant . PvP Domination maps are the same since begining ( kinda boring ) . Stronghold PvP is ... wait what ? Noone is queuing for that .
THE LAG <--- no joke it's laging 24/7 for everyone
This game imo was a lot of fun at begining and easier about grinding stuff , now it's just a big joke and a huge waste of time .
PvP is dead .
I dedicate this 1000th PVP post in the forums in pvps honor and as the last dying hope (been saving it for a worthy thread ) : D
The Russian server had some other custom pvp rewards made that we never saw
Even so, my reason for tapping out, was that I just could not handle Cryptic's flavor of the mod business tactic anymore.
This would be as much of a band aid as private matches, if obscene class imbalances are not dealt with, separately from PvE class balance.
On the obscure chance that this would come to happen, character balance would also need to happen.
By this, I mean standardized stats for PvP arenas. Maybe even a MOBA style arena with default loadout, so that "class mechanically challenged" players would stand a chance against more experienced players, excluding knowing how to time their attacks of course. However, and this is a big, fat, in your face "however", I would never trust Cryptic to make these loadouts themselves.
This is a "riding a unicorn down candy mountain while drinking from a goblet filled with children's laughter" type of dream, though, and perhaps a special kind of hell for others.
However, I disagree with those stating that the solo que was detrimental to NW PVP or that the solo que played any significant role in killing competitive PVP. Truly competitive Neverwinter PVP pretty much died a long time ago and never recovered. Issues like low veteran population and large numbers of dom players lacking team skills have been prevalent since way before the solo que was even a thing.
NW PVP's neglected state has been breeding pessimistic early quitting behavior, low motivation, and slackness from veteran and newbie players alike for a long time. For many mods now, the closest thing NW has had to "competitive" PVP are occasional pre vs pre matches and duels. Many pres vs pres are snooze fests where almost nobody dies and you seldom have to do anything more than follow basic instructions. I get a really fun pre vs pre every now and then but the majority of pre vs pres I have done have been dull to say the least. I have had better luck with duels but I can also remember some excruciatingly boring duels I've done.
For pugs, they know that NW PVP is absurdly unbalanced and people have been quitting seemingly earlier and earlier into matches over the years. People also don't try as hard as they used to. There simply isn't much incentive to try your best when the widespread sentiment is that "NW PVP is a joke anyway; your skill and effort doesn't matter as much as random chance and your gear; and the rewards are HAMSTER anyway so it doesn't matter if you lose."
Solo que was not a fix for all of PVP's ails by any stretch of the imagination but it did cause more players to start doing some PVP. That won't revive competitive team PVP but it does still help PVP. I have seen several previously PVE only players starting to do some PVP thanks to the recent wave of PVP changes. They were willing to participate in PVP largely thanks to the solo que and the tenacity changes. I also have been seeing more new players than normal saying they want to get into PVP.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
we need REAL REWARDS FOR PVP not 200ad which is insulting.
This is something we need to push and change ,
so big REWARDS for pvp , huge ONES and some HYPE will come with it and
BAM pvp is back.
ya I already suggested glory or rewards be exchangeable something useful like ultimate marks : D
@Op...the idea is not bad but I would do it vanilla: all same IL, base weapons of their class, same hp pool, same mounts... - that would be something fair and what u can call competitive in my opinion and would bring alot of ppl into pvp...
@kalina311 ...thats also a good idea to get something useful from glory/coins
- PvP pre-soloQ was an endless row of pugstomping matches, and 19 out of 20 matches would end up with a trade cap after like 2 minutes of fight or less. Right now, my experience is that out of 20 matches at least 15-16 have fights going on: it means both losing and winning team killing and capping without the need to trade cap. They might not be head-to-head challenges, but still you get to fight and cap. It's WAY better than mixed queue for someone who does not queue with a team/premade/group of geared friends. Out of those 20 matches at least 2-3 are real head to head challenges. Since 12b came out i got a lot of matches head to head or even with the losing team making a comeback and winning. In mixed queue it was a dream. 1 out of 100 matches may be. For me, soloQ is 100x better than mixed queue. We still have sync queue attempts but still, much better than before. Is it "the solution"? No. But much better for a soloQ player. So, soloQ is a step in the right direction. It reduced pugstomping and improved the overall quality of the matches compared to mixed queue, which was TERRIBLE. I get way less matches that do not allow for any fight, usually because one team gets 3-4 geared players, while the other gets most of the 9-10k toons.
- We need:
- Better rewards for competitive modes. That's a given. No rewards give no incentive to play, which means only players who have fun just playing PvP will join, or players who need glory/ seals exc... for the guild, conqueror shards exc... Devs might add: PvP mounts obtainable only through PvP, NCL rewards every month or so, enchants, refining points and proper gear with a chance to drop, companions you can use in PvE but obtain in PvP only, PvP-specific insignia, companion gear usable in PvE but obtainable in PvP as reward exc...
- Get rid of the kills and deaths in the leaderboard, or even getting rid of the leaderboard for regular soloQ/mixedQ exc..., and give a leaderboard only to the mentioned "competitive mode". This way, players who are after a stupid k/d ratio will disappear. Instead, give scores based on node capping, kills ON NODE, time spent on a contested node, node defense, and give nothing for kills when fighting and enemy who is off-node (this way ranged classes can support and still get points, if they attack someone who is on a node).
- a competitive mode does not need to be team based. You can even have a competitive soloQ, if you have a working matchmaking AND class balance. You can have both a team competitive mode, and a solo competitive mode, with separate leaderboards. Both with mentioned rewards. But, in a soloQ, if you decline the queue or let it expire 2 times, you get banned from PvP for 30 minutes. To get rid of sync queue.
Also in solo competitive Q you can force rainbow/ avoid class stacking. It's a given that classes must be overall balanced in PvP, expecially TRs, GFs and OPs, mainly because these classes outperform the others EVEN MORE at lower iLvLs. Which means if i have a 9k TR and a 9k GWF, the 9k TR (if properly built and played) can contribute way more, while the 9k GWF will be a free kill.
Also iLvL should be taken into account TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. I talk about the times one team in soloQ gets 3-4 14-15k players, and the other gets 9-10k players. Should not be allowed. Which means overall iLvL difference of the teams should be small. I'd say 1-2k max.
It's way more complex than "give us a competitive team queue". Competitive PvPers are NOT the majority of PvP players. Most NWO players play casual PvP. So creating a competitive team PvP will not solve the issue, same way the premade queue didn't stop certain "competitive PvPers" guilds from pugstomping/ farming PvP. Devs created soloQ, and they try to sync queue.
You need to create a PvP environment that does not allow PvP "farming" AND create both a solo and team based competitive queue, with rewards, and get rid from the score of everything that does not involve fighting on node, capping a node/ defending a node (everything that actually HELPS THE TEAM instead of just increase some useless leaderboard stat).
Also a tutorial with some basics of PvP players must complete before joining. Such tutorial would be based on the "ulcer pug" post by macjae. Explaining players how they must move, which are the priorities in a domination match and how to get points and help the team winning. Getting rid of the K/D ratio from leaderboard would take away the last reason some players would have to fight in a selfish way.
an average dom 5vs5 match is 12-13 min and you "MAY" win 3K DA + 1 green / blue peanuts unsoldable
After 2 matches --> 200 DA and 1 useless item ^^
So in 1 hour (4 matchs ) -> 7K DA
an average ETOS is 9-10 min and you "SURE" to win 7K DA + 1 recyclable purple (4k/6k DA) + seals, you have olso a chance to get 2 more recyclable item and an additional reward when you open the box
After 2 runs --> you still get seals and recyclable item ...
So in 1 hour (5 matches salvage run) -> 15K + 20k + 12K (900 seals) = 47K without counting the additional drop
I took ETOS as example but of course it works with all dungeons
Assuming you need a lot of AD to improve your character in PVP (mount / insignia / enchant ...) if you just do the math ... there is something wrong ^^
If it was possible to
- Get specials rewards for the top 100 of the day / week / month (no problem of bots or campfire man)
- Get recyclable item in case of victory (no problem of bots or campfire man)
- Buy something useful with glory
- Participate with your premade team at kind of official tournament
Neverwinter would kill Overwatch :-)
For the solo q sync problem,
if you mix the 10 players in the pool before the start... there is no more problem and it still funny to fight against yours friends ;-)
Sorry for my english
Also you would have to adjust the difficulty of the dungeons to the soloque-pugs and not to coordinating premades (not talking about troll-comps). Even if the majority of pvpers by now are soloque players, the idea is to play 5v5 on 3 nodes. That is not the highest tactical standart possible, but it still needs coordination as a team. So it should be inherent that a premade team is preferential and it should be rewarded to play pre vs pre to encourage players to do that.
By now with the low population of pvpers it could help to make special maps for 2v2 or 3v3 queues. Then with smaller parties you could also easier separate bis-players from low-gear-players. And yes, ppl could exploid the separation by itemlvl, but that cannot be the general reason against everything. Still since you wount go into endgame-pve without premade and fitting gear it should be the same for endgame-pvp. Rewarding premaking pvp parties to fight other ones is a good approach to raise the quality.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
I agree with what @pando83 said.
Solo Q was the right thing to do. Now more pve players can have fun. GS equalising is the biggest problem.
Sure we all prefer pm vs pm but waiting around for the 8th (if lucky) match in a row to be able to get that? Just stupid. It had nothing to do with ruining anything in PvP. Which brings me to private Q...the only ones responsible for the no pm vs pm pvp are the people who quit or are afraid or stuck up to use private Q, which is one of the only good things the devs have done for pvp.
Butt-hurt people afraid of competing, ppl not willing to trying new group comps outside their friendlist and no effort from guildleaders to come together to allow for this to happen (certainly all the bad atmosphere and things that happened in some of the top guilds does not help, or ppl leaving etc). BEING AFRAID OF LOSING is what is making private Q not begin used; certainly not solo Q. And this has chain reaction that since nothing happens, I will either go pve or just not play anymore. We are to blame, not devs period.
2x per day full team pvp delves for 1 hour, 10-20 wins means reward , rank 9 or so.
Regular solo q
2x delves , 10-20 wins rank 8 enchants.
plus pvp unbound gear in ah so players can buy it.
The most important part is
This 2 delves should happen at the same time.
So geared people play premade for high awards , lower geared play for lower awards.
And best thing is you separate geared and non geared 2x per day and everyone is happy.
what do u think
pvp died ...players were not encouraged to get better by having better vet players vet practice with them and be a threat ..
they still wanted to pug stomp selectively ...even way back it was soo bad in one guild they would call Q pop so as to not run into each other mostly the A teams running into B teams... the B team were still quite deadly to most comps on the server tho ....... i got that rule removed after a few accidental conflicts
On one hand leaderboard can be a nice thing when it comes to competitive part of the game, but on the other hand in games like NW the K/D turns people into total *selfhamster* ...
I also agree about 2nd part, in both soloQ and nonexistent normalQ. If people decline/let it expire/leave the match they should either lose a big amount of XP/Glory/whatever it takes to stop them from doing that.
Sure, BiS players might not care about XP/Glory but PvErs and new players probably would since they need Glory for gear or w/e.
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