Burst damage vs DoT damage balance

jaime4312#3760
jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
edited November 2017 in PvE Discussion
@terramak and other devs,

What is exactly what you intend for DoT damage? It is inferior to burst at pretty much everything in both pve and pvp.

- Mobs and even some bosses die way too fast for DoT to deal full damage.

- It isn't nearly as effective as burst vs pvp built players.


- When it comes to proc things/effects, it often works with the 1st tick only if at all (I know, CW is a clear exception there), that alone makes it much worse than burst at that.


- When rarely there is time for DoTs to deal full damage, burst damage still wins with multimillion, very powerful hits.


Example, the dps curse from T9G works much better for GF/GWF than HR/CW/SW.

Note that I play both a GF and a SW so this is not a nerf request but rather a way to express my disagreement on how you give DoT virtually no dps benefits whatsoever, there has to be both advantages and disadvantages to both types of damage and I don't see any clear and relevant one for DoT as it stands. I think DoT should be given either more damage per tick with less of them overall or it should proc things/effects/enchanments with every tick.
Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on

Comments

  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    This is what causes the whole fight, debate, argument, brewhaha over "GWF is too powerful"...in my humble opinion. And the bloody curse in tong amplifies this.
  • c3rb3r3
    c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    When you pretty much 3 shot any non-boss opponent it's kinda hard to balance dots.

    The only few options I think about is to
    - as you said make them shorter but deal more damage
    - deal high damages on first ticks then have diminishing damages

    But at the same time it would separate them from the dot notion.

    However I'd like some day for Cryptic to deal with that jam issue.
  • metalicum1
    metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    couple of points here.

    I don't think they have any overarching plan with DoT vs Burst. They barely can put everything together so that the game doesn't fall apart from all the procs and related bugs. DoT damage in this game is super insanely dangerous in this sense.

    they can't really do much imho. You propose 2 solutions.
    Either DoT vs Burst = higher damage sustained vs. higher damage in burst. this is not an option because there are no gameplay mechanics that would require burst (right now it's only more convenient, sometimes), therefore, DoTs would dominate the meta entirely because it would make it much better on bosses end game wise. That's not solving an issue, that's just pushing it into a different direction. It would be worst then it is now though, because now, the difference is relatively balanced for the boss fights. (it's not balanced well class-wise, but you don't go for GWF because it's burst, you go there because it's one of the best classes - don't mistake class and skill balance with Burst vs. DoT design).
    I guess you can buff some DoTs a little. But that would be like a class balance thing rather than a big strategic design decision to make DoTs and burst really distinct in usefulness. Because that's the key. Usefulness. Killing trash mobs more quickly is not very useful, that's just convenient.

    Second option would be to make DoTs to do much less damage, but actaully proc everything consistently without Internal cooldowns, and look for balance there (imagine something like 0% crit chance Owlbear cup proc with every DoT tick - . That might cause technical issues because there would be a LOT of things going on.
    They won't do either.


    One of the problem is there there is not much Burst in this game. The distinction between the damage in the high point and low point of the burst is extremely low - think GWF, when is the downtime of GWF? When GWF does 80% less damage than is burst phase? never. . So you can't really make a lot of interesting mechanics that would make burst USEFUL (not just convenient). On the same note, DoTs don't have any real build up - everything is extremely sped up. As a CW you can apply DoTs almost instantly, there no ramping mechanic, which makes the distinction between DoTs and burst almost entirely dependent on 1 single variable - how long the mobs live.

    This is bad game design, and without a major overhaul, a major set of changes - which we will never get - you don't really have much design space to deal with this.
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Burst always tends to win out over DoT when the enemies can die quickly, usually adds. Bosses tend to take long, this allows DoT classes to play catch up on bosses. The issue is with all the buffing and debuffing burst will win out as bosses tend to melt just as fast due to the buff/debuff.

    A way to resolve this is buff the initial hit for the DoT abilities and reduce the DoT damage.

    Say now the DoT has 5 hits and each hit does 10K in base damage. Reduce the DoT damage by 5K and add the loss value to the intial hit and the DoT abilities would be better suited in more content.
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User

    @terramak and other devs,



    What is exactly what you intend for DoT damage? It is inferior to burst at pretty much everything in both pve and pvp.



    - Mobs and even some bosses die way too fast for DoT to deal full damage.



    - It isn't nearly as effective as burst vs pvp built players.





    - When it comes to proc things/effects, it often works with the 1st tick only if at all (I know, CW is a clear exception there), that alone makes it much worse than burst at that.





    - When rarely there is time for DoTs to deal full damage, burst damage still wins with multimillion, very powerful hits.





    Example, the dps curse from T9G works much better for GF/GWF than HR/CW/SW.



    Note that I play both a GF and a SW so this is not a nerf request but rather a way to express my disagreement on how you give DoT virtually no dps benefits whatsoever, there has to be both advantages and disadvantages to both types of damage and I don't see any clear and relevant one for DoT as it stands. I think DoT should be given either more damage per tick with less of them overall or it should proc things/effects/enchanments with every tick.

    DoT was useful before when there were a lot of enemies around you, especially on the DC and MoF CW in combination with the Plague Fire ench.

    DoT was never meant to OUTdps the burst damage, nor it should, since it's just doing some Damage while bying time either by tanking or making a maneuver in order to proc a specific thing.

    The problem was that some enchs in the past were procing too much in a short time making dots way op. Since then their values were never as prominent, although you can still find a lot of uses for them in Chul area. Be weary though that since MOD6 only Chult area can see it's uses for the DoTs, and that's specifically the Batiri area which comes to my mind now.

    A couple of MoF CW's would completely wreck that place up./
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language