I have noticed a lot more Pally's are going with the Orcus set. I try to get good DPS but since I am not BiS (I am 15.3k, 85% Crit, about 115k power self buffed taking damage with binding, 255k HP) I still keep some things to keep me tanky (Feytouch).
In my last T9G run (31 min, no wipe, 2DC, 14k DPS) I did 250,000,000 damage (8 million damage per minute) . In worse runs I have done over 350,000,000.
What kind of damage do you more DPS (Orcus set, Vorpal, etc) builds do in a T9G run? Is it worth the considerable expense to rank up an Orcus set to replace my already legendary equipment?
I would be replacing a legendary Belt of Constitution, legendary Tiamat Neck piece, and mythic Tiamat Orb, all of which I just have for the stats
The question is why would you want to switch out your set for a heavy cost (not being bis) that could be invested in better places. If you would switch to valhalla (which imo is by far the best one) I could understand it better but adding 10% to your damage will certainly not make or break a Tong run.
Having the best companions(3legandary) with the best gear/enchants together with the right stable powers(most do not have the right set up here or the best set up for insignias) could increase your damage significantly more unless you have it all right.
If you are leaning toward pvp orcus could actually make some difference but even there the valhalla is probably a better shoise.
There is nothing in this game that would make you preform better in all aspect then having rank 14 bonding with the right kind of companion(s) with bis gear and as high as possible enchantments.
If you are allready this good geared survivability is really not an issue so I can see your will to increase your dps ofc, my suggestion is that you look into gear/powers/feat etc that enhances eachother for a better end result.
This is rather complex once you start with this as you have some boons that can be built into highly effective end result by using the right feats/gear companion, weapon and armor enchants.
The preview is a very good place to test things and I have come up with some results that one normally would never think of some by accident and some by theorycrafting.
Without going into to much I can give you a hint that there are some not so much used weapon/armor enchants that together with certain powers/boons can rival the most commonly used.
Anyhow good luck out there bro
PS Test stacking Bane from several paladins on same target for fun result( i noticed that a bunch of OP powers/encounters stack maby in a not wai way but just for fun am trying out a couple of things with 3-5 pals in same group and I would not be to supriced to see 3+pallys in tong runs in future ........
Valhalla? Can you please elaborate why that is BiS for a pally? I have it on my GF but iirc the stats are mostly wasted on a Pally. To me there are four important factors for a pally tank 1. Threat gen 2. Survivability 3. Powershare/buffs and 4. Damage.
I already have survivability to run all end game content relatively comfortably. So at this point I want to maximize the other three. Luckily increasing damage also increases survivability and threat gen. The stats I lose by getting rid of the gear I have is nothing compared to the increase I get from the Orcus set.
As far as spending it in other areas. I already have 3 legendary companions, rank 12 bondings. All I really have left to do is rank up enchants on my companion (currently rank 11) and on my character (rank 10). For the money I think switching to the Orcus set is the best bang for the buck. Especially since we face a deadline before using feeders to rank up artifacts will be history. I already bought the set and 6 power feeders to take it to mythic at x2 RP. So I am committed.
The only thing possibly more important is prepping to rank up my bondings to rank 13 when 12b hits console but I have plenty of refinement already for that. As for rank 14, lol, that is far off considering how hard I hear it is to get the enchanting stones.
@greyjay1 Question about rotations in T9G. On bosses, in high debuff group (2 DCs and MoF for example) is Bane still worth using? Or better to switch it out for Smite and run SW, CoP, Smite? And when using Bane is it better to use Smite or CoP in your opinion? Out of curiosity, what do you usually run on trash?
In a high debuff group: SW, CoP, Smite, like you say. When I use Bane, then usually in combination with SW and CoP, because then i can profit from more than 3 procs SW, using Smite may interfere with that (especially with an AC resetting your cds). On trash I usually run TW, BL, Smite. I don't think this is the best loadout, but it is a good mix of control, dmg and survivability. If I wanted to focus more on dps, then I'd run SW, BO, RA or replace either BO or RA with CoP.
Hm, haven't thought about dropping TW on trash, I'd have to give it a try. Doesn't RA cause too much knock back there? I haven't tried using it in T9, I always use it for FBI hill climb though. But on the other hand I use Lion offensively on trash and it has a knock back too. For regular groups I wouldn't drop TW, but when running with really good DCs and also GF sharing aggro this should work I guess. And probably even better if having CW for extra control. Personally I started to really like SW+BO combo for damage on trash. Do you take Temp HP curse on Orcus? I guess running around intercepting orbs can cause down times on power share when going out of the range.
The knock back from RA is similar to lion in tong and yes, the rotation is team-dependant, i wouldn't drop TW in a weak group. And in good groups it's like in any aother dungeon, whoever touches the mobs first gets to one shot them.. then it's not really necessary to maximize personal dps in terms of clear-speed, that's actually why i almost always run TW, BL, Smite/SW/CoP. I don't take the temp HP buff, it's usually better suited on a gf who can benefit from the feated +15% dmg while having temp HP. Yeah the running around sucks for Aura Gifts, especially in 12b where bondings work differently.
BTW about bondings mechanic change in 12b where it snapshots the stats. Does that force Survivor Wraps to maximize power share (with HP->Power mechanic) before companions proc companion gift?
I wouldn't say that. At the 1. and 3. boss in tong you can eat a first hit for >100k dmg quite easily before the companions (or anyone else) attack. The bigger issue with Aura Gifts and the Bonding-mechanic is: Aura Gifts is not instant, companions need to be in range for a while, get the buff and THEN attack.. that's the real issue right here .
No, it won't, I currently have 3 points in Wrathful Strikes and 1 in Exemplar's Haste. These 4 points that go into column 2 and 3 won't make a big difference, column 1 and 4 are the important heroic feats.
I went for Wrathful Strikes because you really don't feel a difference in recharge speed and I personally don't feel a difference in Divine Call regeneration from Impassionate Pleas either.
I don't know that an OP can ever hang with a pure DPS GF. I have heard a GF claim that he had crit'd for 45 million (before they changed the uncapped buffs). I can't imagine a Pally ever hit that hard. The highest I have noticed myself hitting for was a 5 million Divine Judgment.
My personal goal is to be a good tank, a good buffer and offer good DPS, not to compete with the HDPS. If my build can tank well, buff well AND contribute a good chunk of DPS, why not.
The thing about a GF is they can really only do two at the same time. They can be great DPS and good buffs or good buffs and good tank, but rarely all three at the same time. The golden age of the DPS GF was before the AA nerf.
I don't know that an OP can ever hang with a pure DPS GF. I have heard a GF claim that he had crit'd for 45 million (before they changed the uncapped buffs). I can't imagine a Pally ever hit that hard. The highest I have noticed myself hitting for was a 5 million Divine Judgment.
Probably was either the last hit of a prepatch debuffs Griffons combo, or the sum of 3x Griffons hits right now. Or, it could be prepatch Anvil back when ITF was stupid. Or possibly prepatch Commanders Strike.
The point is that I cannot think of any GF, save for Ryu or Krogan in optimal circumstances, who can deal 45 mil in a single hit on PC Mod12.5 or console Mod12.
And I would be happy you guys don't have toptier DPS output. OP already has a ridiculous amount of utility, and adding toptier DPS potential will attract the ire of the butthurt GWF brigade.
> @rjc9000 said: > I don't know that an OP can ever hang with a pure DPS GF. I have heard a GF claim that he had crit'd for 45 million (before they changed the uncapped buffs). I can't imagine a Pally ever hit that hard. The highest I have noticed myself hitting for was a 5 million Divine Judgment. > > Probably was either the last hit of a prepatch debuffs Griffons combo, or the sum of 3x Griffons hits right now. Or, it could be prepatch Anvil back when ITF was stupid. Or possibly prepatch Commanders Strike. > > The point is that I cannot think of any GF, save for Ryu or Krogan in optimal circumstances, who can deal 45 mil in a single hit on PC Mod12.5 or console Mod12. > > And I would be happy you guys don't have toptier DPS output. OP already has a ridiculous amount of utility, and adding toptier DPS potential will attract the ire of the butthurt GWF brigade.
<.< ..... >.>
True
Although seeing my at wills hit fir 500k - 1m..and dj for 3m to 5m is ...fun..I want moar!!
Just wanted to say that running with T.Lightning is quite a good fun in tong or anywhere. I got rid of my Vorpal and kept my Feyt, but homestly... I'd run with lightning everywhere ^^
Nice guide, but could you please add some more details on how the different powers work(esp. if they work differently then the tooltip suggests). For example its good that you mention TW temp HP generation doesn´t benefit from crit, but after digging up michaelas thread about it I found out theres a lot more to know about that...
I can add some more details to the powers: - More details to TW. - How many times powers proc wpn-ehancements. - Base cooldowns. - Copy paste sharp's work about ability coefficients.
That's all I can think about right now, @fogcrow if you can think of more things, please let me know.
I will not update the guide right now, probably in the next few days.
I didn´t test if its still the case, but if it is, its worth mentioning: Shield of Faith doesn´t count towards the DR cap. Its a seperate layer of mitigation, similar to the GF Shield.
I don´t doubt its usefulness as a dps power, but if I read the tooltip correctly, the damage debuff from smite only lasts for 3 seconds.
It would be nice to know how much dmg one would be losing, when choosing T.Terror as a weapon enchantment insetead of the recommended (for the target takes more dmg debuff).
When talking about the legendary Tyrannosaur mount power, it might be worth mentioning, that in the last boss fight of T9G, it eats nearby defient souls.
Well, the SoF tooltip is pretty clear about "reducing incoming damage", so it shouldn't be misunderstood. However, I will add that it functions as a x0.7 multiplier to incoming damage.
The Smite tooltip is partially correct, as the debuff lasts 3seconds. It is only applied by the dot-ticks, not the initial hit and every dot-tick will refresh the duration of the debuff => leading to an overall much longer duration than 3sec, virtually permanent. (It's a dmg-debuff, reducing the target's outgoing dmg, functioning as x0.85 multiplier ) This will be added as well, good point.
To T.Terror, here it becomes a little tricky and dependant on the powers you are using, but in any case Terror will be inferior to Fey or Vorpal. The damage difference should roughly be somewhere between 10-15% (a critical hit from terror deals roughly 50% dmg of an AoC-proc, ofc this depends on Critical Severity CA, HP and the proc-sources are similar). Because of Terror being that much worse on "field-tests" we decided to not do much theory crafting around it.
It would be nice to know how much dmg one would be losing, when choosing T.Terror as a weapon enchantment insetead of the recommended (for the target takes more dmg debuff).
OP damage, I recall, was comprised of Sacred Weapon, Divine Judgement, Courage, Shielding Strike, and Smite with almost everything else being irrelevant.
Basically, all of your best powers don't proc Terror many times or at all and Terror's % of weapon damage, relative to OP base damage, won't provide that big of a DPS increase. There is only one power I can think of off the top of my head which Terror is decent on, and that's a fully charged Burning Light, which we all know isn't practical for most team play.
I would argue that gaining extra damage from Vorpal or Fey more than outweighs the benefits of the Terror debuff. The reason being that because the Terror debuff is quite a small overall DPS boost factoring debuff diminishing returns, and the burst DPS contributed by a Paladin with Vorpal/Fey would more than make up for the lack of the debuff.
I've been suffering from a few issues in my OP's ArmPen and I've mostly found myself relying on a few ArmPen insignias and the ArmPen invoke blessing to keep me at 85%. Are you guys planning to run/are running any specific enchant/gear setups to mitigate the loss of ArmPen+Crit from the 12.5 Bonding nerf?
I know I could contact each of you via pm/ingame/Discord respectively, but I am lazy, and I figure I might as well ask here since you guys are bound to make a similar update for 12.5.
I use GWF Sigil, 2 bold and 1 fierce item. I also use r14 Bondings and 2 r14 Savage (Crit / Arp) on my companion, that puts me at 86% Resistance Ignored. I like to reach the cap without Radiant Strike because I usually play with lags and Radiant Strike is veeeery clunky with lags, but if you have big trouble to reach the 85%, then you can aim for 80% and pay extra attention to keep Radiant Strike up.
Considering the theory of the 3 stat enchants, wouldn't Demonics yield the most amount of offensive stats?
I know you planned your character on that one website's character simulator, but I was wondering if you had considered using Demonic 13s/14s to maxmize your offensive stats.
Yes, using 3 Ferce and 3 Demonic + 3 Azure + balancing the missing crit/arp with insignias / SH-food will net more stats in total (have fun farming 3 Fierce ) In my planned final build I will use 2 Bold, 1 Fierce with 14s: 2 Savage, 1 Brutal and 3 Azure (at least 3 2-stat enchants yay).
However I only use Power and HP insignias, simply to maximize the buff potential and so the companion is my only source of crit and arp. Using Demonics is a lot easier for pure dps chars since they can easily add or remove small crit/arp values with insignias.
Idk: 1. It's my personal preference to maximize buffs and not my personal dps stats. 2. Maybe there's a better combination for companion gear / enchants, this is just what I have and what works for me^^. 3. Anything that gets you to 100% crit and 80%/85% Resistance Ignored will do the job, "buffed" Power is just a bonus.
Savage for Crit/Arpen should also be good. I'm using 1 Heroic piece (Sword Knot) and don't intend to go there again to farm Bold +4 so Savage should be good instead of Vicious. Luckily I've got rings, belts and necks to choose from all Bold/Fierce/Heroic +4.
I'm not sure how much my Crit and Arpen will go down after 12b and getting just bondings to R13 at first. Now with 6 R12 Azures and Heroic, Bold and Fierce/Beast +5 and Deepknight I'm at 108% Crit (I'm delaying getting Primal chest until then). I won't care much about maximizing stats with 2- and 3-stat enchants as this is getting too expensive, just to get to 100% Crit and 80-85% RI mainly with companion. I'm still mostly on R8 Radiants on character, nice that enchants below R12 will get a little boost in stats in 12b.
Comments
If you would switch to valhalla (which imo is by far the best one) I could understand it better but adding 10% to your damage will certainly not make or break a Tong run.
Having the best companions(3legandary) with the best gear/enchants together with the right stable powers(most do not have the right set up here or the best set up for insignias) could increase your damage significantly more unless you have it all right.
If you are leaning toward pvp orcus could actually make some difference but even there the valhalla is probably a better shoise.
There is nothing in this game that would make you preform better in all aspect then having rank 14 bonding with the right kind of companion(s) with bis gear and as high as possible enchantments.
If you are allready this good geared survivability is really not an issue so I can see your will to increase your dps ofc, my suggestion is that you look into gear/powers/feat etc that enhances eachother for a better end result.
This is rather complex once you start with this as you have some boons that can be built into highly effective end result by using the right feats/gear companion, weapon and armor enchants.
The preview is a very good place to test things and I have come up with some results that one normally would never think of some by accident and some by theorycrafting.
Without going into to much I can give you a hint that there are some not so much used weapon/armor enchants that together with certain powers/boons can rival the most commonly used.
Anyhow good luck out there bro
PS Test stacking Bane from several paladins on same target for fun result( i noticed that a bunch of OP powers/encounters stack maby in a not wai way but just for fun am trying out a couple of things with 3-5 pals in same group and I would not be to supriced to see 3+pallys in tong runs in future ........
I already have survivability to run all end game content relatively comfortably. So at this point I want to maximize the other three. Luckily increasing damage also increases survivability and threat gen. The stats I lose by getting rid of the gear I have is nothing compared to the increase I get from the Orcus set.
As far as spending it in other areas. I already have 3 legendary companions, rank 12 bondings. All I really have left to do is rank up enchants on my companion (currently rank 11) and on my character (rank 10). For the money I think switching to the Orcus set is the best bang for the buck. Especially since we face a deadline before using feeders to rank up artifacts will be history. I already bought the set and 6 power feeders to take it to mythic at x2 RP. So I am committed.
The only thing possibly more important is prepping to rank up my bondings to rank 13 when 12b hits console but I have plenty of refinement already for that. As for rank 14, lol, that is far off considering how hard I hear it is to get the enchanting stones.
Question about rotations in T9G. On bosses, in high debuff group (2 DCs and MoF for example) is Bane still worth using? Or better to switch it out for Smite and run SW, CoP, Smite? And when using Bane is it better to use Smite or CoP in your opinion?
Out of curiosity, what do you usually run on trash?
When I use Bane, then usually in combination with SW and CoP, because then i can profit from more than 3 procs SW, using Smite may interfere with that (especially with an AC resetting your cds).
On trash I usually run TW, BL, Smite. I don't think this is the best loadout, but it is a good mix of control, dmg and survivability.
If I wanted to focus more on dps, then I'd run SW, BO, RA or replace either BO or RA with CoP.
Do you take Temp HP curse on Orcus? I guess running around intercepting orbs can cause down times on power share when going out of the range.
I don't take the temp HP buff, it's usually better suited on a gf who can benefit from the feated +15% dmg while having temp HP.
Yeah the running around sucks for Aura Gifts, especially in 12b where bondings work differently.
These 4 points that go into column 2 and 3 won't make a big difference, column 1 and 4 are the important heroic feats.
I went for Wrathful Strikes because you really don't feel a difference in recharge speed and I personally don't feel a difference in Divine Call regeneration from Impassionate Pleas either.
My personal goal is to be a good tank, a good buffer and offer good DPS, not to compete with the HDPS. If my build can tank well, buff well AND contribute a good chunk of DPS, why not.
The thing about a GF is they can really only do two at the same time. They can be great DPS and good buffs or good buffs and good tank, but rarely all three at the same time. The golden age of the DPS GF was before the AA nerf.
The point is that I cannot think of any GF, save for Ryu or Krogan in optimal circumstances, who can deal 45 mil in a single hit on PC Mod12.5 or console Mod12.
And I would be happy you guys don't have toptier DPS output. OP already has a ridiculous amount of utility, and adding toptier DPS potential will attract the ire of the butthurt GWF brigade.
> I don't know that an OP can ever hang with a pure DPS GF. I have heard a GF claim that he had crit'd for 45 million (before they changed the uncapped buffs). I can't imagine a Pally ever hit that hard. The highest I have noticed myself hitting for was a 5 million Divine Judgment.
>
> Probably was either the last hit of a prepatch debuffs Griffons combo, or the sum of 3x Griffons hits right now. Or, it could be prepatch Anvil back when ITF was stupid. Or possibly prepatch Commanders Strike.
>
> The point is that I cannot think of any GF, save for Ryu or Krogan in optimal circumstances, who can deal 45 mil in a single hit on PC Mod12.5 or console Mod12.
>
> And I would be happy you guys don't have toptier DPS output. OP already has a ridiculous amount of utility, and adding toptier DPS potential will attract the ire of the butthurt GWF brigade.
<.< ..... >.>
True
Although seeing my at wills hit fir 500k - 1m..and dj for 3m to 5m is ...fun..I want moar!!
I can add some more details to the powers:
- More details to TW.
- How many times powers proc wpn-ehancements.
- Base cooldowns.
- Copy paste sharp's work about ability coefficients.
That's all I can think about right now, @fogcrow if you can think of more things, please let me know.
I will not update the guide right now, probably in the next few days.
I didn´t test if its still the case, but if it is, its worth mentioning: Shield of Faith doesn´t count towards the DR cap. Its a seperate layer of mitigation, similar to the GF Shield.
I don´t doubt its usefulness as a dps power, but if I read the tooltip correctly, the damage debuff from smite only lasts for 3 seconds.
It would be nice to know how much dmg one would be losing, when choosing T.Terror as a weapon enchantment insetead of the recommended (for the target takes more dmg debuff).
When talking about the legendary Tyrannosaur mount power, it might be worth mentioning, that in the last boss fight of T9G, it eats nearby defient souls.
However, I will add that it functions as a x0.7 multiplier to incoming damage.
The Smite tooltip is partially correct, as the debuff lasts 3seconds. It is only applied by the dot-ticks, not the initial hit and every dot-tick will refresh the duration of the debuff => leading to an overall much longer duration than 3sec, virtually permanent.
(It's a dmg-debuff, reducing the target's outgoing dmg, functioning as x0.85 multiplier )
This will be added as well, good point.
To T.Terror, here it becomes a little tricky and dependant on the powers you are using, but in any case Terror will be inferior to Fey or Vorpal. The damage difference should roughly be somewhere between 10-15% (a critical hit from terror deals roughly 50% dmg of an AoC-proc, ofc this depends on Critical Severity CA, HP and the proc-sources are similar).
Because of Terror being that much worse on "field-tests" we decided to not do much theory crafting around it.
Basically, all of your best powers don't proc Terror many times or at all and Terror's % of weapon damage, relative to OP base damage, won't provide that big of a DPS increase. There is only one power I can think of off the top of my head which Terror is decent on, and that's a fully charged Burning Light, which we all know isn't practical for most team play.
I would argue that gaining extra damage from Vorpal or Fey more than outweighs the benefits of the Terror debuff. The reason being that because the Terror debuff is quite a small overall DPS boost factoring debuff diminishing returns, and the burst DPS contributed by a Paladin with Vorpal/Fey would more than make up for the lack of the debuff.
I've been suffering from a few issues in my OP's ArmPen and I've mostly found myself relying on a few ArmPen insignias and the ArmPen invoke blessing to keep me at 85%.
Are you guys planning to run/are running any specific enchant/gear setups to mitigate the loss of ArmPen+Crit from the 12.5 Bonding nerf?
I know I could contact each of you via pm/ingame/Discord respectively, but I am lazy, and I figure I might as well ask here since you guys are bound to make a similar update for 12.5.
I like to reach the cap without Radiant Strike because I usually play with lags and Radiant Strike is veeeery clunky with lags, but if you have big trouble to reach the 85%, then you can aim for 80% and pay extra attention to keep Radiant Strike up.
Edit: Savage, not Vicious xD
I know you planned your character on that one website's character simulator, but I was wondering if you had considered using Demonic 13s/14s to maxmize your offensive stats.
In my planned final build I will use 2 Bold, 1 Fierce with 14s: 2 Savage, 1 Brutal and 3 Azure (at least 3 2-stat enchants yay).
However I only use Power and HP insignias, simply to maximize the buff potential and so the companion is my only source of crit and arp.
Using Demonics is a lot easier for pure dps chars since they can easily add or remove small crit/arp values with insignias.
Idk:
1. It's my personal preference to maximize buffs and not my personal dps stats.
2. Maybe there's a better combination for companion gear / enchants, this is just what I have and what works for me^^.
3. Anything that gets you to 100% crit and 80%/85% Resistance Ignored will do the job, "buffed" Power is just a bonus.
Edit: Savage, not Vicious xD
I'm not sure how much my Crit and Arpen will go down after 12b and getting just bondings to R13 at first. Now with 6 R12 Azures and Heroic, Bold and Fierce/Beast +5 and Deepknight I'm at 108% Crit (I'm delaying getting Primal chest until then). I won't care much about maximizing stats with 2- and 3-stat enchants as this is getting too expensive, just to get to 100% Crit and 80-85% RI mainly with companion. I'm still mostly on R8 Radiants on character, nice that enchants below R12 will get a little boost in stats in 12b.