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Remove Unlock Requirements for Random Queues

frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
Random Queues are getting a lot of unnecessary flak. Removing the requirement of having all the concerned queues unlocked might solve most of the problems associated with them. Just make the people be able to do whatever they have unlocked randomly.
FrozenFire
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Comments

  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Member Posts: 32 Arc User

    Doing this will make the new RQ unbroken....until then its broken....
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    I'm no sure how much of the flak is unnecessary. They are horrible. Worst idea ever.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    lantern22 said:

    I'm no sure how much of the flak is unnecessary. They are horrible. Worst idea ever.

    Answer why that's so in addition?
    FrozenFire
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Am I the only one who likes them?
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    it's the worst idea ever, what is there to like about it?
  • aftershafteraftershafter Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    You know, as someone who has multiple well established level 70's, the effect of this is that I am going to instance less. Significantly less. This sucks since instancing is about 50% of what there is to actually do at this point in my NW play-career, but there it is. I have a solid AD income through reselling enchantments that I don't really have the will to spend my 45 minute window on a probably doomed MSP run that randomly popped up. Doing a quick MC or VT run was what I tended to fill my little breaks with... Now? Unless the non-random queues pick up speed a lot, no more.

    The people this really hurts are the low characters. They need the AD that I don't. A new 70 is going to be running off the pittance weeklies give now, or getting cheeky with what they buy/sell. Of course, this is probably by design - they might be motivated to drop some real money on the game now. Well, what can one do?

    I'm not going anywhere - this isn't some dramatic "That's it - I'm DONE with this game!" post. I just can't say I like this change. The number of times I have to play a very specific, quick instance VS the number of times I have to spend on a tough one with possibly turbulent, and long, runs, are greatly imbalanced. That's aside from the issue of now having to keep up on a whole slew of keys to get the most out of my runs, or buy those zen store keys. Not happening - or at least, not regularly. Therefore, probably fewer regular instance runs. This change makes my time give me less and will change my play habit, trending it towards not playing as much. I say this as a player who has brought a reasonable amount of actual cash into the game over my few years. I hope the payoff for the company is worth it.

  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited October 2017

    You know, as someone who has multiple well established level 70's, the effect of this is that I am going to instance less. Significantly less. This sucks since instancing is about 50% of what there is to actually do at this point in my NW play-career, but there it is. I have a solid AD income through reselling enchantments that I don't really have the will to spend my 45 minute window on a probably doomed MSP run that randomly popped up. Doing a quick MC or VT run was what I tended to fill my little breaks with... Now? Unless the non-random queues pick up speed a lot, no more.

    The people this really hurts are the low characters. They need the AD that I don't. A new 70 is going to be running off the pittance weeklies give now, or getting cheeky with what they buy/sell. Of course, this is probably by design - they might be motivated to drop some real money on the game now. Well, what can one do?

    I'm not going anywhere - this isn't some dramatic "That's it - I'm DONE with this game!" post. I just can't say I like this change. The number of times I have to play a very specific, quick instance VS the number of times I have to spend on a tough one with possibly turbulent, and long, runs, are greatly imbalanced. That's aside from the issue of now having to keep up on a whole slew of keys to get the most out of my runs, or buy those zen store keys. Not happening - or at least, not regularly. Therefore, probably fewer regular instance runs. This change makes my time give me less and will change my play habit, trending it towards not playing as much. I say this as a player who has brought a reasonable amount of actual cash into the game over my few years. I hope the payoff for the company is worth it.

    You realise you can queue in with a pre-built group? Only the dungeon will be random, the group needn't.

    fresh lev 70 can't do random skirmish, loses half of daily ad income until reaches 10k item level. I say it again because it's really anoying to get less ad as 70 than as 15 lev character.

    Levellers are still getting 9k+ from the dungeon. I think they used to get around 10k doing 2 dungeons and 2 skirmishes (those skirmishes never really popped).
    FrozenFire
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    reg1981 said:

    Am I the only one who likes them?

    I like it too... Just trying to make it likable for others also.
    FrozenFire
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator

    it's the worst idea ever, what is there to like about it?

    Don't go about saying that without an explanation. Probably you don't even know why you feel that way.
    FrozenFire
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    @asterdahl? Your opinion?
    FrozenFire
  • baronstragenbaronstragen Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    You should be able to que for random dungeons and have it select for the ones you completed. I wasn't a fan of mod 10 so I stopped after I unlocked FBI on my 3 toons. That was enough punishment for me. I can't que for any epic trials because I don't have SVA unlocked. It's not a big deal for me since I can do anything else, and missing out on demogorgon/tiamat isn't a huge deal for me, but it seems a bit silly. I feel sorry for new 70's that are unable to que for a random dungeon. New recruits are finding this a bit oppressive. It would be nice if they could que for whatever they currently have unlocked.
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  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    I may have missed this question throughout the numerous postings on this subject but........are we not going to get RAD for CTA events anymore?? if you have to "random queue", then you could wait forever to actually get into the "event".........I wish they would've, at least, allowed some RAD to be given for private queues, even if it is half of the amount given out in the random queues, at least this way fresh level 70s have a way to earn some RAD
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    tazz4now said:

    I may have missed this question throughout the numerous postings on this subject but........are we not going to get RAD for CTA events anymore??

    I was actually wondering the other day how CTAs will be affected by the new queue system. Will they be added to skirmish random? Will they have their own option?
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User

    it's the worst idea ever, what is there to like about it?

    Don't go about saying that without an explanation. Probably you don't even know why you feel that way.
    Of course I do. I've already commented in the huge thread that the devs didn't even bother to read.

    I don't like being forced to do content I don't like. It doesn't solve the problem they are trying to solve and it simply creates new ones. For most folks, even if it works the way the devs intended, gives less per time spent than before. I could elaborate on each of these points as well as others, but I'd be wasting my time.
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    tazz4now said:

    I may have missed this question throughout the numerous postings on this subject but........are we not going to get RAD for CTA events anymore?? if you have to "random queue", then you could wait forever to actually get into the "event".........I wish they would've, at least, allowed some RAD to be given for private queues, even if it is half of the amount given out in the random queues, at least this way fresh level 70s have a way to earn some RAD

    This was suggested, but fell on deaf ears. The bottom line is they *think* that forcing folks to run random queues for RAD will help with the issue of regular queues taking forever to fill (or never filling at all). What they forgot to consider is, just because a queue fills doesn't mean the content is doable or even fun for the team selected.

    It's like they put their blinders on and wanted to solve the problem of queues never filling and wanted a solution no matter what, even if it was worse than the original problem.
  • mattsacremattsacre Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    They solved one (slightly) and created dozen more. The ones taking it in the neck are the less than 11k 70s. Underdark boons take 2 drops that take endless L70 skirmish runs....that are now not populating because so few have full skirmish list opened (um...merchant folly? If you are at underdark lvl....why is that HAMSTER keeping you out of RQ?) etc.

    The whole problem is that unless you open everything to get the list open to RQ you can't RQ. Of which you need the items from that level to get the level to get the list.....circular firing squad.

    Like to get the purple gear you need the blue gear, but to survive the run up with blue gear to get to purple you need the blue slots filled with purple stuff to hang in until purple gear....HAMSTER.

    Yes, you have seen that it "might" be abused on the E/R dungeons....how so the skirms? Either open the list and and they RQ for what they have opened and not for what they haven't opened (yes, this will populate the earlier skirms more than the later, due to folks not having them open, but that was happening pre RQ anyway duh)

    OR crazy idea here...just open access through RQ only to ALL skirms (even if not opened the official way). If they want outside RQ access to the specific skirm. they have to go back and do it official (and get those great nonexistent rewards from them as well of course!)
  • tyrlaan#5615 tyrlaan Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    unangwata said:

    fresh lev 70 can't do random skirmish, loses half of daily ad income until reaches 10k item level. I say it again because it's really anoying to get less ad as 70 than as 15 lev character.

    I agree.

    I like the random dungeon queue, it's a random dungeon that usually takes longer than the normal temple of spider grind we had before but it also rewards more AD. I just do it once a day for slightly less AD than before (with TOS 2x).

    But I don't like being locked out from random skirmishes and random epic dungeons because I'm lvl 70 but too low IL. If I was 69, I would have all random queues open to me. I'm also locked out from the new quests to get dungeoneering shards of power because I can't join those random queues.
  • docsnuggles#6615 docsnuggles Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    People are under the assumption it's getting to 10k to unlock the HAMSTER if you have unlocked on another character already, but you also need minimal the 30% everfrost resist flask aswel since that is also a requirement for FBI.

    If you don't have minimal 28% everfrost resist you won't be able to RQ either.
  • lagunadlagunad Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I'm a relatively new player and have been doing (and enjoying) random skirmishes since the patch.

    I just got my first character to level 70, and now find that I'm locked out of them until I get 10k item level. This seems really harsh and unreasonable.

    I was able to queue for them at 69, but not at 70? They were level-scaling me before I got to 70 anyway, so why can't I do (at least) the same list of skirmishes now without being level-scaled?
  • sorvikcorsairsorvikcorsair Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    lagunad said:

    I'm a relatively new player and have been doing (and enjoying) random skirmishes since the patch.

    I just got my first character to level 70, and now find that I'm locked out of them until I get 10k item level. This seems really harsh and unreasonable.

    I was able to queue for them at 69, but not at 70? They were level-scaling me before I got to 70 anyway, so why can't I do (at least) the same list of skirmishes now without being level-scaled?

    This is the heart of the problem for this "Fix". This isn't just for new 70s, a brand new 70 can be ilvl 10k easy with league gear off AH. The drive to work your way up through the epic tier dungeons helped you learn your character and role.

    IF (THAT IS A BIG IF) the Devs for this game want to keep this in I suggest this change:

    Random T1 Que; Req. Level 70, ilvl 7500. Make reward 3/8ths of current RAD reward
    Random T2 Que; Req. LvL 70, ilvl 10k, Completed at least one Random T1 Que to unlock : Reward = current Random Epic Reward
    Random T3 Que; Req. Campaign Unlocked, 11.5k ilvl, 5x Random T1 Que, 3x Random T2 Que completed : Reward = 1.25x current reward (25% larger since math is difficult for Cryptic)

    This is just a VERY rough idea brought on by reading this thread.
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  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    it's the worst idea ever, what is there to like about it?

    Don't go about saying that without an explanation. Probably you don't even know why you feel that way.
    Allow me...
    1) Sub 11K L70 players now have to do THREE dungeons to get the same amount of Bonus Daily RAD and Salvageable RAD. (1 leveling, 2 epic standard queue) as opposed to the theory that Random Queues equals "more RAD in less time"

    2) Sub 10k L70 players can no longer gain bonus daily RAD from skirmishes.

    3) Sub 10k L70 players can not access the new daily bonus RAD from Trials (Demo, Tiamat etc)

    4) The number of accessible Dungeoneers shards for sub 11K L70 players has halved, sub 10K L70 can no longer gain themn through the cleric quest at all.

    5) Players around the 11k mark are now being random grouped into PUG for FBI and MSP with little to no chance of success, causing them to have to spend considerably more time than currently attempting and generally failing to earn their daily bonus RAD.

    6) It is no longer possible for the players who do actually qualify to earn Dungeoneers shards to collect the cleric quests and play them all on a day that is convenient for them... it's one per day or tough luck.

    I'll come back with some more when someone counters all those...
    Post edited by mordekai#1901 on
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    lagunad said:

    I'm a relatively new player and have been doing (and enjoying) random skirmishes since the patch.

    I just got my first character to level 70, and now find that I'm locked out of them until I get 10k item level. This seems really harsh and unreasonable.

    I was able to queue for them at 69, but not at 70? They were level-scaling me before I got to 70 anyway, so why can't I do (at least) the same list of skirmishes now without being level-scaled?

    This is the heart of the problem for this "Fix". This isn't just for new 70s, a brand new 70 can be ilvl 10k easy with league gear off AH. The drive to work your way up through the epic tier dungeons helped you learn your character and role.

    IF (THAT IS A BIG IF) the Devs for this game want to keep this in I suggest this change:

    Random T1 Que; Req. Level 70, ilvl 7500. Make reward 3/8ths of current RAD reward
    Random T2 Que; Req. LvL 70, ilvl 10k, Completed at least one Random T1 Que to unlock : Reward = current Random Epic Reward
    Random T3 Que; Req. Campaign Unlocked, 11.5k ilvl, 5x Random T1 Que, 3x Random T2 Que completed : Reward = 1.25x current reward (25% larger since math is difficult for Cryptic)

    This is just a VERY rough idea brought on by reading this thread.
    They will not entertain any suggestion that removes FBI and MSP from the same queue list as the standard Epic Dungeons.
    The given reason is that they don;t want to upset high end players by putting FBI and MSP in with TONG, as this may impact their ability to gain a full daily allowance of Seals of the Brave in ONE dungeon run.

    My belief is that the whole mess of Random Queues is to get more people into FBI and MSP which are clearly despised and hardly ever played compared to the rest.

    Why this is the case is another matter... maybe someone in design is annoyed their content isn'y getting any love, maybe someone in a top floor office has demanded better retuen on the investment ploughed into the SKt and CA campaign design? Whatever the reaon, they need FBI and MSP in the queue where the largest number of even barely elligible players can be coralled into those two dungeons.

    ETA: It doesn't matter whether people complete or even enjoy those dungeons... as long a they are firing more often... they appear more popular.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    The problem is exactly what was brought up in the feedback thread before it went live.

    Namely, that FBI and MSP should have their own T3 category and require a separate RQ, perhaps bundling them in with T9G.

    If they'd done this, then we wouldn't have any issues at all.
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  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    here is an idea they should have tried to implement (but didnt)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hero's accord : TONG/MSP/FBI

    T1 random trial: Tiamant

    T2 random trial: ndemo/edemo

    T3 random tral: Nsvardborg/Msvardborg

    T0 random dungeon(3players)

    T1 random dungeon queue: ELOL/VT/MC
    T2 random dungeon queue: ECC/ETOS/EGWD

    T1 Random skirmish queue: Dread Legion/Master of the Hunt
    T2 Random skirmish queue: KR/ESOT/MPF
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    they are locking my alts behind a 3man random queue dungeon, when they can run VT/ELOL/MC/EGWD/ECC/ETOS/CN, the MSP/FBI needs to move to a different random dungeon queue, having a dc and pally locked on 3m randon when they can run VT/ELOL/MC/EGWD/ECC/ETOS/CN previous to 12b is basicly a slap in the face, i see the game population in random dungeon queue for dc/op/gf class decreasing
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    After a few days of random queues on a few characters, here are my results.
    Never got MSP and FBI. Hardest dungeon I got was CN.
    I noticed the cleric in CN had much less than 11k, and everyone else more than 11k.
    Hence, the cleric did not random queue. CN was easy with 4 players at 11k+

    Prior to random queues, I would often solo queue for dungeons and full CN parties of 9-11k were common.
    For solo queuers, such as me, random dungeons has greatly increased the average item level per dungeon run for epic dungeons at CN or less. If you are 13k+ and you get CN or less, its unlikely you will fail. Although, I did one time really struggle to kill final boss eGWD (epic random queue).

    I am glad to see higher average item level in my (random) epic dungeons runs.
    But so far, I almost always get easy dungeons. On my DC, who can easily do FBI,
    I usually get Kessels or Valindra. It's almost embarassing.
    So far, epic dungeon random queue is almost always a walk in the park for me.

    Here's the flaw in random queue theory. Prior to random queues, I would almost never queue for easy dungeons. I would never queue my DC for kessels. Too easy. I would only queue for something with a slight challenge, such as eGWD or CN or higher, but nothing easier.

    Since random queues, my DC does one epic random dungeon per day and that's all!
    The bonus RAD does not cause me to play my DC more often.
    In fact, I am playing my DC less often now because it's more profitable for me to run random skirmishes and random leveling dungeons on all my alts than do multiple epic random dungeons on my DC.

    Instead of granting a bonus to tanks and clerics, a better solution, in my opinion, is to allow them to run epic random dungeons more than once per day (and still get 10k+ AD per run).
    Post edited by sangrine on
  • flippy#8481 flippy Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    unangwata said:

    The only bad thing about random ques is that when you get to lev 70 you get less ad than you when you were leveling, because random skirmish gets locked until 10k, which is kinda impossible for new players.

    yes its like they intend to drive new players away
  • janglesmom1janglesmom1 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I don't think this random queue change was intended to drive new players away or make life better for existing players. I think it was intended to sell more campaign buyouts by severely cutting down how much RAD you can get unless you finish the right campaigns to join random epic queues. You can either slog through the necessary campaigns, or you can take the easy way and pay for campaign buyouts. They're counting on people just giving up and paying for it. Speaking for myself, I won't be coerced that way. It's just too much work for me to bother with.
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