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Private queue and premades: nothing changed?
pando83
Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
In my experience, mixed queue is still filled with 3-4 men half premades and almost full premades of 15k-16k players from the same guilds. My last experience was 2 hours spent going through a row of PMvs pug team, 4x15k+ players in one team, and the other filled with 8-10k+me.
45 minutes spent with 4 matches that were the same team A (premade) vs the same pug team. They kept going in mixed queue as a premade, and kept stomping the same 10k pug team.
In another match i joined a 4-men premade that was losing against another 4-men premade. We lost but it was fun.
And my point is: wasn't private queue supposed to allow such premades or partial premades to arrange PvP matches? Why are they still going to mixed queue even when they face the same pug team for almost 1 hour, in an endless row of boring trade capping matches?
After all the "give us private queue because premades always try to find other premades and don't want to fight pug teams".... they are still plaguing mixed queue, going premade even in a row of matches where they always meet the same 10k pug team. So the reason they go premade isn't to fight other premades perhaps? Or they would arrange matches in private queue.
So what's the use of private queue if premades still go mixed queue?
Last consideration: another argument is that "players want to play with friends in PvP" or "have fun with friends in PvP". Ok. They want to PLAY. What's the point in going to mixed queue with other 15k+ friends if you end up standing there for 10 minutes, trade capping? Is that "playing"? Or even fun? Isn't it more fun to just go to private queue and fight there?
So what's the point of this private queue all the PvP guilds wanted so much, if they are still going premade in mixed queue? To please the 1% that goes PMvsPM, or to just make it easier for that 1% of PvP guilds to arrange their occasional PMvsPM?
So the only conclusion is that the motivation for the usual 3-4 men geared premade we find in mixed queue, is that they want to pugstomp.
45 minutes spent with 4 matches that were the same team A (premade) vs the same pug team. They kept going in mixed queue as a premade, and kept stomping the same 10k pug team.
In another match i joined a 4-men premade that was losing against another 4-men premade. We lost but it was fun.
And my point is: wasn't private queue supposed to allow such premades or partial premades to arrange PvP matches? Why are they still going to mixed queue even when they face the same pug team for almost 1 hour, in an endless row of boring trade capping matches?
After all the "give us private queue because premades always try to find other premades and don't want to fight pug teams".... they are still plaguing mixed queue, going premade even in a row of matches where they always meet the same 10k pug team. So the reason they go premade isn't to fight other premades perhaps? Or they would arrange matches in private queue.
So what's the use of private queue if premades still go mixed queue?
Last consideration: another argument is that "players want to play with friends in PvP" or "have fun with friends in PvP". Ok. They want to PLAY. What's the point in going to mixed queue with other 15k+ friends if you end up standing there for 10 minutes, trade capping? Is that "playing"? Or even fun? Isn't it more fun to just go to private queue and fight there?
So what's the point of this private queue all the PvP guilds wanted so much, if they are still going premade in mixed queue? To please the 1% that goes PMvsPM, or to just make it easier for that 1% of PvP guilds to arrange their occasional PMvsPM?
So the only conclusion is that the motivation for the usual 3-4 men geared premade we find in mixed queue, is that they want to pugstomp.
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So, how about a transparent queue. You get to see name, class, and IL of everyone queueing and/or playing. Something like this could even be a persistent 10 v 10 map that ppl could join and leave at their leisure with no penalty. Map could reset when done, possibly with a shuffle, but ppl could constantly be joining and leaving as they liked. Not that I think this would have any more exploitation than the current state, but make it no rewards like private queues if you like. This way, when the pug stompers join you can just leave if you wish, or not join when you see that they are already playing.
On a side note, I noticed that my IL changes if I have my companion summoned or not before joining a match. Is this what everyone sees as well? So if my companion is summoned when I queue, my teammates see my IL as if I have a companion and see less IL if it was not summoned when I queued? If so I think all companions should either be auto dismissed when you queue, or you should not be able to queue until you dismiss them.
As someone who has been premading a lot for the past few years, I can say that my friends and I have been doing that too, make a team and queue and pugstomp..
BUT thats cause there was no private queue.
It was close to impossible to sync queue with how broken it was, had to wait for pop for an hour sometimes, decline all the time and just...it was so annoying. So people used to try to snipe other premades,cause it was easier than syncing, also cause most of premades refused to sync for different reasons,but that doesnt matter.
Problem now is that from what I know theres one or two guilds (@ PC) that keep premading in normal queue just to boost their leaderboard stats and boost their own ego.
Whats the point though? Leaderboard is broken, PvP in this game is dead - so why even bother?
You want to pvp with friends? Then make a team and make inhouse... or ask other guilds to do a 5v5.
When they introduced priv queue to us we used to premade every single day with bunch of people,always trying to mix things up so its balanced and fun for everyone, queue takes few seconds too, so why not do THAT instead of pugstomping?
To me is seems like people are still scared of losing for some reason. Too much ego maybe. Who knows :P
In my opinion normal queue should be available ONLY for duo-trio, if people queue as 5 it should force them to queue in private.
YouTube
It was created because PvP guilds said that "premades going to mixed queue don't want to pugstomp, they only want to find other premades but they can't arrange PMvsPM matches". They said "give us PMvsPM queue (private queue) and premades will go there".
Lies.
Private queue is there from some time and you still find 3-4 men premades of full 15k-16k PvP players going for one hour or more in mixed queue to FARM pug teams. One of the things that was told me by one of such premades was " we need to farm for stronghold".
So the truth is that there's may be the 0,1% of PvP players from PvP guilds who only want to PMvsPM in a separate queue. The rest want to simply gang up and pugstomp.
In the end, resources and manpower wasted to create a private queue that is USELESS for the game, does nothing at all to improve PvP even slightly for the community, and is only there to please a very, very, very small group of PvPers who need it to arrange their occasional PMvsPM between PvP guilds.
The question of the topic is: so all the requests from PvP guilds, to have this private queue, was just for the above? It was presented as the way to free mixed queue from premades. They even said solo queue was useless and that PmvsPM queue was the way to go.
Again, looks like they were either quite wrong, or, plain and simple, telling lies to get their toy.
The other problem is, what difference does it make? If I have 4 BIS players in my guild, & if they are all on at the same time, & i can somehow convince them to premade with me... ( none of which is true , BTW Just supposing) then there are three possible outcomes. 1) We meet the full pre-made & get stomped. (2) We meet the partial premade, and have a good fight or (3) We BECOME the premade that stomps the poor pug team. I don't really like those odds. I really don't like the idea of becoming a pre-made pug-stomper. Not that that would happen. Any team I could whip together would simply be too far away from BIS to make a difference. MAYBE we could hold up against the partial pre-made. But more likely, we would be stomped just as badly as a pure PUG team.
Perhaps if these matches were more complex, it would be more fun. But the same few maps, all capture and hold, in a tiny area....people just want it easy.
I don't expect anyone to publicly agree with what I wrote, but deep down, in every game, people get off on exerting their prowess on other people, and the skill of the other people generally means little.
Just to point out one thing: with current low PvP population, and 7k toons going to PvP for ADs, ANY PREMADE (2-3-4-5 men) done by geared/BiS players can HAMSTER up a match badly/increase the chances of a stomping greatly.
Funny thing, a certain guild was the most vocal when it came to asking for a private queue, saying that premades just wanted a dedicated queue and were not into pugstomping, and you still see them forming partial premades in PvP. Obviously, because the only care about their guild and it's "not their fault" if PvP is unbalanced.
Still, partial premades of BiS geared PvPers are formed and stomp pug teams, when splitting up would increase the balance and grant more fun matches.
But as usual, when you will ask them, it will not be their fault if PvP matches end up one-sided due to partial premades from PvP guilds.
PvP itself is not balanced. PvP guilds premades (any formation/number) simply turn what would be an unbalanced match, in a completely one-sided stomping.
I would make these few changes:
Private queue: premades, no matter how the match goes, the teams stay that way.
Mixed queue: premades can still go there, but if the match becomes really one-sided (200+ score difference), the best player of the winning team is FORCEFULLY moved to the losing team and swapped with the worst performing player of the losing team. Auto balance. You go in with a premade, you're not guaranteed the teams will stay the same.
Auto balance would apply to solo queue too.
Leaderboard only for private queue (PMvsPM matches, which makes more sense).
Leaderboard is something that makes sense, to me, only for PMvsPM matches. Mixed or solo queue outcomes is too random and, as we've seen, subject to players manipulating their win/loss ratio or K/D ratio with bad behaviours.
This way, mixed queue is for rewards, while you go in more serious matches with preformed teams, to rank in a leaderboard.
Make these changes and you will give a meaning to the leaderboard, give a reason to players to try PMvsPM in private queue, and stop the pugstomping premades in mixed queue (or sync in solo queue).
Last but not the least: reduce the gap in reward between a winning and a losing team. PvP reward should be linked to personal performance (caps, defenses of points, and last the kills). This would discourage the bad behaviours of people quitting a match just because they lose, or kicking players to win.
"Mixed queue: premades can still go there, but if the match becomes really one-sided (200+ score difference), the best player of the winning team is FORCEFULLY moved to the losing team and swapped with the worst performing player of the losing team. Auto balance. You go in with a premade, you're not guaranteed the teams will stay the same.
"
and how would this system of yours determine the best / Worst player to "swap" by what criteria scoring system exactly ?
what makes a good pvp player stats wise in a match ?>
given that there is no more then 2 of the same class of the same ... also you cant remove 1 teams only support.. etc
If you have better ideas you're free to post.
Today i met a full premade of a guild well known for forming premades in domination. When they asked them why they don't go to private queue the answer was: cause there is no leaderboard there and no rewards. Plus some cheap trolling stuff like "cause there we don't get to stomp you" exc...
Which means: premades are not done to face other premades or for competition. They are done to get easy leaderboard fake stats and rewards/ glory.
Considering glory rewards for BiS players are very cheap, and leaderboard stats mean nothing right now, i'd say they just enjoy easy pugstomping.
So PvP guilds asked for private queue for their premades. Now they have it but they don't use it much because...premades are done for leaderboard and stats.
I would at least remove leaderboard from solo and mixed queue, and add it to private queue ONLY. After that, another change is that NOBODY gets a reward in PvP if the match ends up with 300+ points of difference (which means you can't go pugstomping for rewards, because you wouldn't get any).
Also: AD daily rewards for solo queue only AND matchmaking that does not put people from the same guild or friend list, automatically together (if this is what happens in solo queue, like someone stated).
At least these 3 ideas plus solo queue should help solve the pugstomping premades issue. I WONDER IF THE PVP GUILDS THAT WERE SO VOCAL WHEN IT CAME TO ASKING FOR PRIVATE QUEUE, WOULD BE VOCAL INTO ASKING FOR SUCH CHANGES THAT EFFECTIVELY DISCOURAGE PUGSTOMPING.
What we said for years is now clear. Premades in mixed queue ARE made for pugstomping/ easy reward/ leaderboard. Not to "meet other premades".
So the issue must be treated as such. Groups of players going to PvP just to pugstomp, get easy wins, get fake leaderboard stats. And it's not a small group. But a large part of the PvP dedicated community. Else, we would not still get plagued by pugstomping full or partial premades even now that there's private queue.
Until the devs FORCE fair play/ balance in PvP (aka, keep premades ,any number or formation, OUT of any queue that is not the private queue), PvP will keep dying.
These are the groups that are the most toxic, these are the guys that turn matches in completely 1-sided slaughters.
so back to trading caps again/ being care bears and holding hands then ? lol ..
so trading caps is not collaborating for rewards either ?
so now only rewards for the match being "too" even LOL ?
the private Q has many uses and is not exclusively for "premading" (it is also used for testing and giving feedback to devs ) and because players wanted it blah blah hypocrite blah blah resources wasted blah blah ..whine whine ... you may find semi premades more in the Q now farming glory for next mod pvp gear as well
and because so called premade players wanted it they must use it all the time and never use the regular q at all ever even tho no one is left on the pc ... very strange dichotomy not many high end PC premaade players are left yet most people complain they are "constantly running into them.. both cases cannot be true ...the the overwhelming majority of population is not pvp players in the Q how the heck are players "always" getting premades
is this your hypothesis ? anyone that has better gear then you or if 2 players have the same alliance guild tag they must be a premade and in a conspiracy to enjoy stomping and are not entitled to rewards cause they must use the private Q that they (even if is not them) advocated .. this sensationalised number Bs does not add up does it ? you are just grouping everyone together to suport your hampster points premiss and conclusions
got news for you folks 2 high level 14-17k pve guild people that sync Q in the same match in mod12b will be considered a premade" by the OPS philosophy and "Toxic"
hopfully deaths counts wilL be way up next mod and this wil be a non issues then cause a few weaker pugs can gang on A "premade PERSON" AND THEY ARE NO LONGER IMMORTAL
lots of new"TOXIC" premade people will be born next mod due to gear equalisation .. and any pve scrub with 13k+ gear will become a "premade troll" in your eyes
pve "people" are free to form thier own "semi premades" and go with their friends as well in thier super best in slot pve gear .. next mod i hear they added a mike feature for as well pvp lol
you know the landscape will change next mod anyways ...so your post is already out of date/ and not what the new meta will be ...also there is a 4 hour timer on kicks next mod as well .. should help solo pvp kick complain whiners too from "GAMING" the Q
- You just wrote that you can find "semi-premades" to "FARM" glory for next mod gear. Here is the key word. Except i would add "full premades too" from certain guilds. First: semi premades, such as 2-3-4 men premades of geared players (13-14k and more) are already enough to destroy 90% of the mixed queue matches. When you have, like in current PvP domination, 10 players, with only let's say 4 geared PvPers, and the rest being "cannon fodder", and 3 of them form a "semi-premade" to "farm" glory, you have already a guaranteed stomp 99% of the times.
And thanks for admitting that all of this is done to "farm" glory= farm pug teams with semi-premades or premades.
It's exactly what i was talking about.
- I never said that anyone who is from the same alliance MUST be a premade. BUT: 1) most of the time that's the case 2) when i play 10 dominations, and i meet 7 times the same 3 players in the same team, good luck saying it's not a semi-premade.
- Even if the players forming a premade or semi-premade are not BiS PvPers, the current scenario is this: bunch of 6-9k players enter PvP. Instead of being split between 2 teams, they are all/most of them are put together in the same team due to the rest of the players already being together in a premade.
- thanks to loadouts and next mod changes you cannot anymore really split the community into PvP and PvE players. The line is blurred now. It's what you wrote that is outdated. Every player now, and even more in mod12b, is able to join PvP with a loadout and gear good enough to fight. What marks the difference is, then, iLvL. Boons and gear and enchants. a 6-9k players will never be able to do a thing vs a 13k-17k player. No matter what.
Which means that if you put multiple geared players in the same team (what happens now) with a premade or semi-premade, you greatly increase the chances of the match being a "stomp".
You already said premades are done to "farm" PvP= get easy victories at the expenses of pug teams. The premade i met admitted they do it to "farm" rewards and leaderboard stats (lol :'D)
It's enough to prove what i said. It's the kind of toxic and selfish behaviour that transformed PvP into a desert. Because players wanted to for premades to "farm" PvP/ get easy victories. We were told by a part of the community that premades were done to face other premades. Now it's said they are there to "farm". So it was a lie. Period.
The landscape will change only if solo queue is really free from sync exploiters and the matchmaking works properly.
Else, you will still see 3-4 geared players in one team, often doing multiple matches in a row, and in the other 3-4 6k-9k players
If you have 10 players, with following iLvLs: 6k,7k,8k,9k,14k,13k,15k,14k,7k,10k, and 3 of them are forming a 15k-14k-13k semi-premade, how do you think the match will go? With following teams at best:
15k-14k-13k-6k-7k
14k-10k-9k-8k-7k
This is what happens most of the time in current PvP, in my experience.
Normally you'd have 2 geared in one team, 2 geared in the other. With a premade, you have 3v1. It's all it takes to turn a fight into a stomp.
And players know it well. That's why, as you said, they for "premades" or semi-premades, to FARM PvP. Thank you for using that word. It's explains all there's to understand behind geared premades going to PvP in mixed queue.
My suggestions are to ensure you get a "fight" in most PvP matches. Because i care more about having fun and being able to have a fair fight, rather than "farming" PvP aka "farming pug teams with geared premades or semi-premadesto get easy rewards, easy fake leaderboard stats, easy wins",
I don 't agree on rewarding personal interest over team play though - at least not with capture the node type maps we have now. Team play is a must.
also what do you imagine the average server item level to be on peoples main to be ?
now you go on to complain that 8k level players will get stomped too with more people qing things will be better
there will always be someone higher level then you but on average most people are now 8k-10k and with refining costs going down for mid level enchants in mod12b it will be easier to achieve that
ya the match making system does not scramble properly not a higher level players fault
there are many definitions of the word FARM
/earning/ playing / wining/ getting glory .... you love to lump them all together dont you ..
so anytime someone wins with good gear its a BAD thing right lol and they should feel ashamed of themselves .. not cryptics bad match making ... and because its so bad they should only q solo or use the private Q right ?
farm def 1 ... a single win for the day (ad bonus )with a a strong 5 man team that disbands
farm def 2 .... multiple wins for the day
Farm def 3 playing for hours and hours and hours at a time in a row ..leaderboard boosting/ playing whatever you want to call it
same thing with 2 or 3 man teams looking for other team ...
same thing for 2 or 3 man team not looking for other team
same thing for dozen other reason i can think of
some of these people are arranging matches some are not some have limited time for the day / need the win
for guild shards as well
all I am confirming is people play for multiple reasons and people always cry foul premade farmers when they are out geared/
in this case I said there might be more reasons more "premades are out " to use YOUR words not mine
no amount of private matches is going to get you glory currency
at what point is FARM a bad no no word with negative meaning ...the mod is comming to the close and EVERY BODY ON THE WHOLE SERVER NEEDS TO UMM FARM for glory/ win for optional new pvp gear next mod .. thats all i said and confirmed dude ...farming pvp climate changes from extreme perhaps uneeded excessive match quing (by your definition )to required match qing for new resources/ equipment ..
/ guild upgrades
for me "farming" means player involvement//so yes players involved themselves in order to get glory next mod for pvp or even thier strongholds which can apply for any mod ..
how would you recommend players non pug stomp farm glory then when a new mod is comming up ? and also not to be hypocrites (according to you )if they were taking a break for several mods due to pvp climate and had no glory .. and needs it to purchase gear to be relvant . or returning player comming back after many many mods they need to purchase gear with glory ..
also if semi premades are forming then they also get 2-3 pugs on thier team that also get glory and a win no ?? were the pugs not farming too ?? what is the max item level for a pug exactly ?
you are just like the type of person that complains about the games bad RNG and only tracks ever time they fail to use pres wards in a streak not the amount of times they win and get it in 1 shot
same thing for pvp on the wining semi premade team there are 2 or 3 pugs that get rewards too no ??? GOTCHA
do they want to hand thier rewards back cause thier team was "TOO STRONG" and or it was a 1 sided blowout
maybe you should start quitting matches if you are on the winning team if you are ahead by 200 and not get your rewards then lol as protest
surely a vet and experienced player such as you cant be on the losing team EVERY time ... unless somehow you are in fact sabotaging and contributing to loses ..which i doubt is the case ..... so you always Q solo ?
Can I get a link to where literally every pvp guild/ premade player said this? Im not defending the pug stomping, just asking.
@pando83 I imagine you must have characters that are 12k-14k ... so the second it pairs you with a simaliar geared player in pvp ... are YOU not then the "Premade player that is stomping" for someone on the opposing teams perspective ?and by your example then ..
wait why are you not using the private Q then cause since clearly you are going out pug stomping the second it pairs you with a higher item players .... the reason you are going to say is because you did not ask for it ??? the same thing that some premade players will say they did not ask for the private Q / should not be forced to use it in ways/reasons which you did /did not imagine to prove or disprove any of your biased points
It's been said many times in the past that most premades in mixed Q were "not there to stomp, but to look for other premades to face". You want the exact posts, go look for them. It was one of the main arguments of the players saying premades in mixed Q were not an issue.
Every player has the right to play the game the way he wants. I go solo Q. Other players go premade or semi-premade to pugstomp and farm PvP.
I'm just here to point out, and thank you sir for confirming it, that premades in mixed Q are not there to "look for other premades", or to "play with friends", or for any challenge, but simply to farm PvP aka pugstomp. Which is exactly what has always happened in the past and what caused the current situation where nobody play PvP anymore except people who farm for SH or RAD.
It's been said for years, but there's always been someone who defended such premades saying that premades were not the issue.
I've also seen 2 of the players who wrote such things in the past, recently "farming" mixed queue with a semi-premade.
So yeah, at least "some" of such players are the same. Others might not. But in the past, whoever said premades in mixed PvP were an issue, was treated as a noob or an idiot by people saying the above stuff.
There's no biased opinion. Just facts. Facts are that PvP always suffered, and still suffers, from premades, and expecially premades of dedicated PvPers, farming it.
And any move to prevent that (be it soloQ or something else) must be attempted.
I don't believe that premades or semi-premades are the only problem in PvP by any means. I find it hard to believe so many on PS4 keep playing the same 5v5 dom matches, on the same two maps, over and over, all day long. Kinda like having only one campaign to PvE in for a few years. That would be fun.
Team size. Why rewards only for 5v5 dom matches? I would love to try 10v10, but queue never pops. I imagine that it is better/easier to balance, but can't have much of an opinion if I've never been there. And here again, a persistent map that you could join in to, and see the names, class, IL of all ppl playing could save A LOT of wasted time. Everyone can tell when a match is lopsided. A team could ask for a switch after a one-sided victory/loss. No switch? Leave with no penalty to find better players. And, of course, any rewards from such matches would have be conditional.
I do hope that changes keep happening for PvP. Maybe population will rise, maybe match making can be resolved in all types of queues. Maybe we will get a ton of new maps and something other than domination. Maybe Grammy will PvP with Grampy. But if you keep handing out rewards for 1000-0 matches with a whole lot of kills on one side and a whole lot of deaths on the other I don't think "pug stomping" will go away.
It is easier to change a rule or condition than it is to change a mindset. I have seen the pugs on partial premades smell blood/weakness and partake in the stomping. It's really kinda disgusting to me, and I wouldn't have a problem leaving in protest as suggested, if there were no time penalty for leaving a match. Currency can be gotten back, but you never get time back.
I agree though that premaders overall should do a lot more private que matches and premading into a public que with more than 2 people should be kept to a minimum considering how unbalanced PVP is at the moment.
Here is my personal background on premading if you wish to see my own motives and some nuance:
I was an oportunistic premader before private que was introduced, meaning I usually would go with a freind or alone but occationally I'd do a 5 man if there was one avalable. I have taken a temporary break from PVP to work on my character and offer more forum feedback. I haven't done much PVP since private que and the new SOD buff was introduced.
Some of the premades I did were que syncs where 2 premades would coordinate with eachother via TS to try and get into the same match as eachother. This process usually took between 30 minutes and 2 hours. These sync matches did not get organised that often compared to other kinds of matches owing to how much of a pain they were to set up.
This shortage of pre vs pre matches was further amplified by how boring these matches were in most cases. The very dullest pre vs pre matches I can name took place before mod 10 weapons were introduced as well as any match with more than one support class/healer per team. This is because those matches have virtually no deaths and play out more like a tacky board game for the elderly than an action packed PVP match. My respects to anyone who mangages to stay awake in such matches.
Many of the 5 man premades I did were using search to see if there were any premades about and then we'd attempt to snipe them. Other matches I was in did not have a specific premade in mind we were trying to stalk and we would just play through a few matches hoping to get a challenging match.
In the majority of 5 man matches I can recall, we weren't looking for weak players to squash, we were hunting for good matches and would put up with easier matches before scoring a good match because it was faster than que syncing.
There are admittidly some premade teams I joined that were probably formed for the reasons @pando83 discribed though its hard to tell for all of these. On a couple of these, I'm 99% sure it was leaderboard farming, habbit, lazyness, and fear of losing driving my teamates to form these premades.
On my end, I can name some times where my mind was done for the day and I would jump into a pre hoping for an easier match or 2 before calling it quits for the night. I think it was me not actually wanting to go to sleep yet but not having enough energy left to want to go do anything hard.
However, I'm fairly certain glory farming/AD did not play a significant role in the premade matches I was in. If someone uses this as an excuse to premade they are either lieing or you are witnissing a rare scenario.
The reason for this is simple, premaders of the caliber discribed here do not need glory and the measly sum of AD they can get from PVP is not worth their time. The only thing worth buying with glory more than once is healing pots or dumping it into a guild coffer. The conversion rate for glory to guild marks is terrible and its easy to hit the coffer cap from natural play. When players lose a match, most teams will let you gg and cap for points so you rarely get a match where you get no glory. Its conquerer's shards that are more of a consern and its likely that not all premaders know that they can win icewind dale PVP matches to complete the daily shard quest.
I do have one personality quirk that many of the other premaders I have qued with don't have as far as I am able to tell. Many of them don't enjoy killing weak pugs at all that I can see and I know several of them that directly said they don't enjoy it and just feel pity for the pugs. I also know many PVPers who are bored out of their skull by this game in general and only stick around because of them wanting to interact with guildmates, these sorts have little to no motivation left in them for PVP matches but will do them anyway for the interaction time.
In my specific case, I have retained some of my old motivation for this game. There is also a primitive bit in the back of my mind that makes me want to go on a kill rampage and I enjoy any kill to some degree. That doesn't mean that I specificially look for easy targets and I seem to enjoy harder fights even more, they are just much harder to come by in the public que and shrinking PVP population so I take what I can get as an opportunist. Dueling has gotten me my best fights by far since I can have a fight that is both hard AND be physically able to kill more players without piercing damage or requiring help from teammates. I am also not tied down playing as everyone else's CB/CC companion in a duel.
I get annoyed when matches end early though will still follow gg etiquette even though I almost never actually want to stop. I tend to only accept an in match dual if I think we have enough time to finish it, though there often isn't enough time so I don't always bother to ask. There have also been numerous situations where the entire team that got squashed has no strong players on it so any dual I try to start would not be a fair match up. I'm considering creating loadouts for several different item levels so I can fight more people 1vs1.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
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Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
"It's been said many times in the past that most premades in mixed Q were "not there to stomp, but to look for other premades to face". You want the exact posts, go look for them. It was one of the main arguments of the players saying premades in mixed Q were not an issue."
YOU are making the "claims" the burden of proof IS on you Bro
Why would I look up quotes (that dont exist ) to help in NOT supporting my argument lol you need to look up quotes (that you claim exist ) to support yours
You are the one that opened the thread with your claims and now you dont want to back them up by facts and quotes from noted pvp players and thier guilds ...
if you do find them I will address it and change to target specifically those players / posts and try to put them in context
also I could not find where you stated your item level either and if in fact you became the pug stomper if you were the second high level player on your team .. nor a dozen other points i said you failed to respond to ...
one point glory was also used to buy feeder artifacts with power union and stability ... and saved tons of ads for upgrading ..
and glory boosters are helpful to limit the time you need to grind out pvp gear or artifacts
summons @CLONKYO1 to comment on the whole thread
Oh and then how about just making skills separate - give everyone a straight up PVP loadout and have the skill trees read specifially for PVP when using that loadout. That way people who are primarily PVE focused can at least consider going into PVP with at least a pvp loadout without having to hose up their PVE spec. And that way the devs could monkey around with balancing the PVP skills without doing these godawful PVE nerfs to everyone.
Either way 3 of us PVE people have been going into PVP on PS4 every night trying to get shards. We encounter the same 4 groups of people. I know them by name now. We are fairly certain they are the only people who PVP other than the random few who wander in there for shards and encounter them. They are the reason people don't go back into PVP. Because it's not a good time unless that's really what you are about, and if that's what you are about you are probably already in there wondering why the rest of us won't go in. It's a miserable experience.
I hop down off the ledge and am instantly stunlocked while being hit by 5 freakin lions. How is that fun for anyone? I mean you have to be a royal HAMSTER to make that your entertainment for the evening.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
the old complaint was no tenacity on gear / I dont have room / dont want to grind . that has been taking care of by giving everyone the same base tenacity
old complaint pve build was different / vs pvp due to having HIGH CRIT .. and crit doing less damage in pvp ... no longer the case either ,.,.formulas has been fixed for next mod
old complaint I need so much more armor pen in pvp then pve (new pve content requires 85% ri anyways now )... now you can chose to add more to penetrate higher dr classes .. or have higher crit to compensate now that that armor pen resist has been adjusted as well and needing to stack a lot more to be effective .. or overstacking it against certain classes ( no longer working ) and being wastefull ..