2 Artifact Set Bonuses? (OPtank Q)

meraks · August 2017

I just learned that the Great Protector Set bonus can be gained by using any three of the potential set. Meaning you could use [Lantern of Revelation], [Waters of Elah'zad], and [Aurora's Whole Realm Catalogue] to gain the +10000 HP and 500 Defense set bonus. So my question is, if this is true, can you also then use another Set and gain that set bonus?

If this is true, would it be a reasonable and beneficial choice for an OPtank to run both protector and Valhalla (or name another reasonable set)?

--

Catalogue: +1000 Deflect, +1000 Movement, +600 Gold Gain
Waters: +1000 Recovery, +1000 Defense, +600 Regen
Lantern: +1000 Armor Pen, +1000 Critical Strike, +600 Combat Adv.
Set: +10000 HP, +500 Defense

Horn of Valhala: +4000 HP, +1000 Critical Strike, +600 Combat Adv.
Set: 3% debuff for 6 secs, up to 5 stacks.

--

Will the math work, based on the idea that the Pally is wanting to stack HP, but would at best (most likely) have 3 Max HP artifacts (adding only 2k HP while removing 3k of the other stats and the extra set bonus)?

What are your thoughts?

ravenskya · August 2017

I believe that to get the set bonus you need to have either the neck or belt - which would prevent using two sets. I have not tried the multiple artifact thing to see if that would trigger the set bonus though. If it did, then you would easily be able to have two set bonuses - however I'm not sure that set bonus would be ideal over just having better artifacts that offered HP and power.

thefiresidecat · August 2017

yah you need neck and belt and even if you could have a set with the three artifacts it's not focused or good stat wise. the bonus isn' tbetter than picking three worthwhile artifacts.

meraks · August 2017

I havent had time to sit down and do the complete math analysis using various pieces, or verify if it works at all as I don't have a waters at all, let alone all the artifacts already bound to one toon (and Im at work with no access to my xbox).

I do recognize the HP and Power being top dog, and that's the second half of the query. I only see completely wasted stats on the catalogue (movement and gold gain) the rest look like primary, secondary or tertiary stats that while maybe not optimal, might be a reasonable choice with a second set bonus (unless Combat Adv is a wasted stat for a tank, that I don't know).

I am a DPS creature trying to learn about the OPtank support class, and this seemed like an interesting possibility, that may work out to be HAMSTER... 1000 non-lightbulbs and all.

meraks · August 2017

Thanks for the response fireside, though someone on reddit just responded to the same query with a screenshot showing the set 3/3 with three artifacts installed. Though I believe the second part about it possibly not being optimal due the stats of cragmire not being worth the second set bonus. I am trying to ascertain where to draw that line though, as the stats from lantern is not optimal, but the set bonus is, in this case...

zebular · August 2017

meraks#0999 said:
Thanks for the response fireside, though someone on reddit just responded to the same query with a screenshot showing the set 3/3 with three artifacts installed. Though I believe the second part about it possibly not being optimal due the stats of cragmire not being worth the second set bonus. I am trying to ascertain where to draw that line though, as the stats from lantern is not optimal, but the set bonus is, in this case...

That set bonus is not for a Catalogue/Waters/Lantern set. Those three together do not have their own set bonus. It's for one of those plus a Neck and Belt. As each set needs the Slot Artifact, a Neck Artifact, and a Belt Artifact, no you would not be able to get multiple set bonuses.

The PC gives a better tool-tip description of the set bonuses.
Here's the set with the Lantern:
nw_pc_great_protector_set01

niadan · August 2017

@zebular Agreed...I have the set (neck/belt/lantern) on my CW HP build.

wintersmoke · August 2017

meraks#0999 said:
Thanks for the response fireside, though someone on reddit just responded to the same query with a screenshot showing the set 3/3 with three artifacts installed. Though I believe the second part about it possibly not being optimal due the stats of cragmire not being worth the second set bonus. I am trying to ascertain where to draw that line though, as the stats from lantern is not optimal, but the set bonus is, in this case...

3/3 means he has the protector's cloak artifact neck piece, any greater belt artifact piece, & any of the cragmire artifacts. It does not mean he gets 3 set bonuses for more than one artifact.

meraks · August 2017

wintersmoke said:

meraks#0999 said:
Thanks for the response fireside, though someone on reddit just responded to the same query with a screenshot showing the set 3/3 with three artifacts installed. Though I believe the second part about it possibly not being optimal due the stats of cragmire not being worth the second set bonus. I am trying to ascertain where to draw that line though, as the stats from lantern is not optimal, but the set bonus is, in this case...
3/3 means he has the protector's cloak artifact neck piece, any greater belt artifact piece, & any of the cragmire artifacts. It does not mean he gets 3 set bonuses for more than one artifact.

His post on reddit said he was wearing the three cragmire artifacts and the lostmauth set. While I can't see the inspect screen, or the names of the neck and waist, I have no reason to disbelieve him.

meraks · August 2017

I tested it myself. Just to see if it works. Here are the results.

Without (only thing equipped was lantern)

With (all three cragmire artifacts and nothing else)

niadan · August 2017

Good job...if you can't get the answer, test it yourself...you have a future in this game.

Doubt it was intended to work that way...but I doubt very many will want to equip all those artifacts.

trzebiat · August 2017

zebular said:

meraks#0999 said:
Thanks for the response fireside, though someone on reddit just responded to the same query with a screenshot showing the set 3/3 with three artifacts installed. Though I believe the second part about it possibly not being optimal due the stats of cragmire not being worth the second set bonus. I am trying to ascertain where to draw that line though, as the stats from lantern is not optimal, but the set bonus is, in this case...
That set bonus is not for a Catalogue/Waters/Lantern set. Those three together do not have their own set bonus. It's for one of those plus a Neck and Belt. As each set needs the Slot Artifact, a Neck Artifact, and a Belt Artifact, no you would not be able to get multiple set bonuses.

The PC gives a better tool-tip description of the set bonuses.
Here's the set with the Lantern:

That's the common misconception. Every other set requires only 1 artifact and neck plus belt (you can't have equipped 2 necks or 2 belts at the same time). But since the set bonus requires 3 things to work and Protector's set has total 5 items that counts for it, it works with any combination of 3 of them (just like armor set bonuses for 3/4 pieces, it doesn't matter which pieces you're using). Like you can see on my screenshot linked by @meraks#0999 I have three artifacts and it works for 3/3 set bonus, while also having another set from neck/belt/artifact (Lostmauth in this case). I checked the set bonus to work with greater belt and 2 artifacts (to be able to use AP gain neck) just when that neck was added on PS4.

And like I said on reddit, having the Protector's set with 3 artifacts is not good because of how bad stats artifacts have, especially for OP. Waters have stats good for GF, but that Catalogue? Forget it.

meraks · August 2017

Final Part of the Study
Based on comparing stats with different setups, making the assumptions that Lifesteal, Regen, Movement and Gold Gain are garbage stats (I might contend that Movement is not), IF you are going to use the protector set, the math does not work in the favor of using the Catalogue because of the 1000 Movement and 600 Gold Gain. That secondary stat loss really kills the usefulness of a suspect debuff (valhalla) and a DPS boost % to a pretty low number (a % bonus made worse by stacking HP (Orcus)).

The 600 Regen of Waters is also a waste, so using the off balance 2 artifacts +belt trades 600 useful stat-points for 4 % AP gain in combat (if using Orcus Neck). But it does lower the amount of HP you can stack as you are forced to use Waters as a secondary Artifact.

So the Protector set, used with Latern and 3 HP/Power artifacts seems to offer the best combo, but subbing waters for one of them (and the AP cloak from the Ocrus set) or The DC Sigil (if used as main) seem viable options.

Does anyone see problems with my analysis?

armadeonx · August 2017

Personally I regard the AC instead of AP from the neck to be a loss, as is the Deflect on the neck and Catalogue. Bear in mind you'd be using the Protector set for 10k HP (the 500 Defence is negligible).

To my mind you'd be better served running the Wheel of Elements (HP, Power, Stamina) Pally Sigil (HP, Power, AoE Resist) and the GWF Sigil (HP, Power, Armor Pen) which together will give you 10.4k HP, 3k Power & 1k Armor Pen plus the Cloak of Black Ice for AP gain, Power, Crit & Armor Pen (or Tiamat if you really want Recovery & Defence instead).

Whilst I see the Valhalla set as useful for the GF, the OP really shouldn't need the damage reducing capability of it's set bonus, partly because focusing on high Power, you pump your temp health generation to higher levels and if there's one thing a well built pally can do, it's take a ton of damage.

Bear in mind that the only stat that increases temp health generation is Power.

My pally doesn't even run a defensive armor enchantment, I simply don't need it - I run a Trans Fireburst instead for the extra AoE damage & threat generation.

meraks · August 2017

Thanks for your input... I wont have access to the GWF sigil, so will watch for a suitable sub for that, but I'll start looking for the black ice set.

trzebiat · August 2017

You don't need the whole Black Ice set on OP (stats on Beholder are bad for OP). Just the belt because it has the best stats. You can use any AP gain neck with the stats you need (Black Ice is good, Lostmauth is the same). For artifacts on OP you want good main artifact (DC Sigil or Wheel of Elements) and then artifacts that have both Power and HP, so OP Sigil, GWF Sigil, Eye of the Giant, Wheel of Elements, Vanguard's Banner, Siege Master's War Horn.

meraks · August 2017

oh, okay thought I was misreading, No artifact set. Black Ice Belt, Orcus Neck, and DC Sigil is good, and combine that with Wheel, OP Sigil, and Siegemaster Horn?

dupeks · August 2017

meraks#0999 said:
oh, okay thought I was misreading, No artifact set. Black Ice Belt, Orcus Neck, and DC Sigil is good, and combine that with Wheel, OP Sigil, and Siegemaster Horn?

Depends on your build of course, but in my opinion Greater Plated Band of Constitution is a good belt option.

That's because I try to go for a power-font build and most of my damage comes from Aura of Courage. Which means HP is awesome (increases AoC damage and power-sharing potential due to Oath mechanic).

And yes, currently there isn't a set bonus that I think makes sense for prot-OP tanks. It would cost too many stats (base power and HP are too valuable to pass up) for not enough benefit.

mebengalsfan · August 2017

I wonder if the devs will now take a look at this set bonus and update the code so that is does not trigger off 3 artifacts.

If the code is designed to work with the 3 artifacts, need a dev to chime in here and verify this, than the original poster question on the set bonus for Val and this in question worth it?

10K HP....This stat alone equates to two primary Artifact bonus and one secondary artifact bonus for HP. For Pally's the HP gain is really important.

The Val set provides the character with damage reduction and ok artifact stats, but IMO that set is more for a GF.

The belt and neck for the Val set are not all that bad for any tank, therefore a Pally would benefit from the neck and belt and be ok and gain 10K from the Protector Set bonus.

I'm 50/50 on this as you do gain some decent HP but at the cost of other stats that you could have picked up.

For instance, go with the Wheel of Elements HP and Power and Chromatic Orb as they provide some good stats. Giant Orb is another one. I rather see those on a PallyTank than the three artifacts for the Protector set bonus...

But the one thing I'm curious about is, will the 3 artifact giving the bonus be fixed or is it working as intended?

meraks · August 2017

I also wonder if it is WAI.

But because of the stats you lose to wasted stat lines (mostly due to catalouge), at best you break even stat-wise with the 10k set bonus. You lack control of the other secondary and tertiary stats because you are forced to use specific artifacts, without regard to which additional stats your build requires (stacking lifesteal and deflect, doubt it). This was all part of the math I did, and while I did not share it I looked at the wasted stat generation of a few sets, and compared their bonuses to the wasted stat generation and ultimately came to a similar conclusion as the original detractors to the idea of it being viable. Now if you were going to build a GF that stacks Def and HP, I might have to do the math again, because the set bonus for Valhalla carries more weight (I trusted @Trzebiat on his summation that the Valhalla set loses value for an OP because of the method OPs tank/mitigate), but even then I think the wasted stats from the cragmire artifacts will pale in comparison to other easily obtainable artifacts.

I have decided to stick with the expected makeup of the Protector Set (lantern, cloak and con belt), along with the wheel, DC sigil, and OP sigil, until I can acquire the War Horn, and Baphomets Talisman, and get them all up to legendary (and close to mythic), where I will be closer to equaling the value of the 10K HP when losing the set bonus.

mebengalsfan · August 2017

The two set bonus IMO are more designed for a GF than an OP.

All three of the Craig artifacts are somewhat serviceable for a GF Conqueror build and here is why.

Lantern should be your main and any good GF Conqueror should have more critical strike and armor pen never hurt a tank to help keep threat from doing more damage.

Water artifact is good for increasing Recovery and Defense, both are good for a Conqueror build GF tank that is focused on tanking but wants to put out a bit more damage.

Catalogue: This at first seems like a bad move but the deflection is good for a tank as is the movement and extra gold, well if you swap bonding out between characters. A few extra coin can never hurt or useit to make some AD by buying and selling items from the merchants.

Than you get extra defense and extra HP. Not bad for a GF that maybe needs some extra HP or if you are making a high HP build.

Than using the Val set you get nice stats across the board as a GF and the artifact furthers your ability to do damage as GF Conqueror.

I'm almost sold on this setup for a GF now. Though, are these the BiS artifacts. Probably not but who cares if you can walk around and get two set bonuses.

Now comes the quesion of the companion set bonus or getting the bonus from the mastercraft gear.

2 Artifact Set Bonuses? (OPtank Q)

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