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"fully potted" PvP

auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
Balls to the wall... If you do this, which potions do you favor? List all drugs you take, class, DPS/cc/tank/heals/whatever. Please and thank you.
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  • auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    @zeusom Dude. Most excellent chart!

    So 38 r12 hybrid enchants = 76x420 = 31,920 total stat points max? Is that a coded cap or just what you calculate the max of the max to be?
  • auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    Also, I thought guild food buff (prime rib) persisted through death?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    zeusom said:

    Here is the max. I updated this back in module 11 but it is still current.


    You only get 38 Rank12 hybrid enchants worth of extra stat.

    Wow Sopi, Im surprised you shared that :pensive:
    Yeah, its pretty crazy...

    #1 All temporary stat buffs (i.e. pots) should not impact your character in PVP - just like companions dont.

    #2 I would argue further that the same should be said about mount bonuses AND active mount abilities (not useable in PVP)

    AS WELL AS

    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    morenthar said:

    Insane. Get potions out of PvP.

    We have people that PvP, that frequent these boards preaching balance and some of them even "stripped-down" PvP. Yet most of them are a walking Performance Enhancing Drug.

    "most of them" as in players that frequent the board? or most of them as in players that pvp ?

    so what !!! the devs have not removed all the guns of pvp (balance )and you want players to take thier bullet proof vests off (pots ) ? so you/they (pvp players) can still advocate for peace better times while still fighting a war and using guns and armor no ? ...

    asking for a stripped down pvp and choosing to use pots while solo or vs premade what ever in the current environment are 2 completely different things ... they are not mutually exclusive ... and it does not make someone hypocritical ...;nor invalidate posts asking for balance

    you are damm right I will pot to the max if I solo Q
    you are damm right I will not use pots if that is the set premade rules beforehand

    I might even pot up for Pve to carry a weak group to gold
    then Q for a match

    however that being said

    also you cant dismiss all pots/buffs either so saying someone potted up for X reason could be entirely wrong you have no idea who they faced or where they were / what circumstances before the match

    are you suggesting such player would quit pvp entirety if the mode they suggested was implemented and they could not pot up

    hmmm


    preaching balance for a class... the community or for fixing a premade match are different things ... stop throwing around the word "balance"

    also people are allowed to change their mind s/ have a different option over time ?
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    ayroux said:

    zeusom said:

    Here is the max. I updated this back in module 11 but it is still current.


    You only get 38 Rank12 hybrid enchants worth of extra stat.

    Wow Sopi, Im surprised you shared that :pensive:
    Yeah, its pretty crazy...

    #1 All temporary stat buffs (i.e. pots) should not impact your character in PVP - just like companions dont.

    #2 I would argue further that the same should be said about mount bonuses AND active mount abilities (not useable in PVP)

    AS WELL AS

    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.
    It's time to get this info out there so people and dev's can see how ridiculous potting can be.
    Being able to stack an extra 2 builds worth of Rank12 stats with potting is absurd.
    Yea I think most or all pots should be removed from pvp.

    *the guild food persists through death. Correction needed there.
    **You can only use one (1) of the celestial coin elixirs now so that has lowered the max to 35 Rank12 hybrid equivalents.

    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    zeusom said:

    ayroux said:

    zeusom said:

    Here is the max. I updated this back in module 11 but it is still current.


    You only get 38 Rank12 hybrid enchants worth of extra stat.

    Wow Sopi, Im surprised you shared that :pensive:
    Yeah, its pretty crazy...

    #1 All temporary stat buffs (i.e. pots) should not impact your character in PVP - just like companions dont.

    #2 I would argue further that the same should be said about mount bonuses AND active mount abilities (not useable in PVP)

    AS WELL AS

    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.
    It's time to get this info out there so people and dev's can see how ridiculous potting can be.
    Being able to stack an extra 2 builds worth of Rank12 stats with potting is absurd.
    Yea I think most or all pots should be removed from pvp.

    *the guild food persists through death. Correction needed there.
    **You can only use one (1) of the celestial coin elixirs now so that has lowered the max to 35 Rank12 hybrid equivalents.

    I agree man.

    All this stuff comes back to "inflation" that has happened since mod 0 days... All the pots, consumables, boons, etc. etc.

    Its all just too much and its fine in PVE as it provides a ton of content and many people need all these "boosts" for the PVE content... but when it comes to PVP, all this stuff broke PVP.

    The "margin" between the casual player (or new player) and the BIS player keeps growing each and every module.

    PVP players want competition and to have a competitive environment. This is why WOW (as 1 example) removed all this from PVP and "equalized" gear for everyone.

    I dont think we need to go THAT far, but I do think removing pots and also things like boons in PVP would go a LONG way to making it more fun again
  • auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    I have long agreed with idea that potting in PvP should be eliminated or at least severely toned down. After 3 years I've only just became pretty much bis so I'm joining them since I sure as hell can't beat them lol. That's a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> joke how much you can stack them lols
  • auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    Welcome to hell casual players. I will now be the reason you give up on the game
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Remove pots, mount bonuses and boon in pvp? Sure after they remove piercing dmg in pvp. Id be the first person to jump on that train.
    Post edited by trentbail21 on
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    > @auntjimima said:
    > Welcome to hell casual players. I will now be the reason you give up on the game

    This sounds like it could be a club.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
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    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • auntjimimaauntjimima Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    It should be. The elite need more organized pug stomping. At the current state of pvp, devs are practically begging us to ruin PvP for anyone else.

    Which, funny enough, will probably bring our own demise, the loss of a deep pool of cryptic spenders, and contribute to the death of Neverwinter (aka actual "winter"). It's okay though, pwe/cryptic/ whatever says they have a new game in development.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    zeusom said:

    Here is the max. I updated this back in module 11 but it is still current.


    You only get 38 Rank12 hybrid enchants worth of extra stat.

    Wow... that's insane. I have heard the talk of getting pots out of pvp, I supported the idea before I saw this chart but did not know it was THIS bad.
    Post edited by trgluestickz on
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    Balls to the wall... If you do this, which potions do you favor? List all drugs you take, class, DPS/cc/tank/heals/whatever. Please and thank you.

    These are the ones I typically use:

    Tymora's Lucky Coin, Adorable Pocket Pet, Campfire Buff, Elixir of Fate, Potion of Heroism, Watermelon Sorbet, Superior Potion of Force, Prime Rib, Random Invoke Buff, and either Foehammers Favor Elixir or Wild Storm Elixir.

    If asked to participate in a potless duel or match I will happily comply to the rules. In normal matches where I don't know what I'm going to be facing, I do pot up.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    Balls to the wall... If you do this, which potions do you favor? List all drugs you take, class, DPS/cc/tank/heals/whatever. Please and thank you.

    These are the ones I typically use:

    Tymora's Lucky Coin, Adorable Pocket Pet, Campfire Buff, Elixir of Fate, Potion of Heroism, Watermelon Sorbet, Superior Potion of Force, Prime Rib, Random Invoke Buff, and either Foehammers Favor Elixir or Wild Storm Elixir.

    If asked to participate in a potless duel or match I will happily comply to the rules. In normal matches where I don't know what I'm going to be facing, I do pot up.
    And I cant blame you either - because you never know who you will face. Better to have pots and buffs and not need them, than it is to not have them and need them. Considering how many there are, and if you happen to find yourself in a crucial premade situation, digging through bags to find the 15+ pots you need to apply mid match is NOT an option....

    You also dont know if the people you bump into will be potted and considering the vast stat difference in pots vs no pots... you would hate to lose due to pots....

    I never run the FULL gambit on pots, but I will usually grab some of the key ones.... Like Elixirs, Heroism, Soup/Sorbet etc. They key ones that provide maybe 75% of the benefits... But at the end of the day... its pretty ridiculous how much stat bonuses these offer... I dont know why they cant just make more stats override others when applied....

    For instance, when using Wild Storm Elixir, if you use that and then later use say Foehammer's Favor, you DONT get the stats from Wild Storm (however you will still get the crit severity). So they DO have "code" in there that replaces other temp buffs like that.... If they could merely expand this, to touch across ALL these points, it would be better for the game...

    I think the pocket pet, and Lucky Coin are fine as is though. It would really be all the pots. I would sugggest EITHER - removing them completely OR.... Allowing ONE of each category.

    So...

    ONE OF: Elixir of Fate / Campfire / Heroism.
    - Elixir of Fate OR Campfire. (basically campfire is a temporary Elixir of Fate, if you have Fate, you DONT get campfire buff).
    - Heroism - would ONLY apply stats if you DIDNT have Campfire OR Fate. If you have Heroism and apply fate, itll only give you fate. If you have Heroism and get a campfire buff, itll only give you campfire (until campfire went away) then it would drop back to Fate. So the "priority" would go like: Heroism < Campfire < Fate. (You only get ONE of these).

    ONE of Elixirs: Self Explanatory... (I would ADD the Masterwork potion of Force AND Flask of Potency here) - Only modified code would be to remove the ancillary benefits if you use a different potion (like crit severity which stays if you replace the portion).

    ONE of "Food Buff": Includes Rank 5 food + Summer food + Feast.

    ONE of: Invoke Buff (make it so you cant have more than 1 active at a time).

    ONE of: Scroll of Fate.

    Then VIP bonus, Lucky Coin, and Pocket Pet are all fine by themselves.

    What this would leave you with is a SHORT list of buffs.
    - Campfire (free) or a Fate Elixir if you want to pay for a perma "campfire"
    - Elixir of Choice (can get through prayer etc. - free, or the Masterwork or Potency etc...).
    - 1 food buff (rank 5 food is cheap)
    - 1 invoke buff (again - free).
    - Scroll of Fate (Not that expensive)
    - VIP/Coin/Pet

    That would be it. Thats not a BAD list and still allows for some fun things to be used for build diversification... But comparing THIS list to the LARGE one we currently have... is pretty silly IMO.
  • hasil#2563 hasil Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    ayroux said:

    zeusom said:

    Here is the max. I updated this back in module 11 but it is still current.


    You only get 38 Rank12 hybrid enchants worth of extra stat.

    Wow Sopi, Im surprised you shared that :pensive:
    Yeah, its pretty crazy...

    #1 All temporary stat buffs (i.e. pots) should not impact your character in PVP - just like companions dont.

    #2 I would argue further that the same should be said about mount bonuses AND active mount abilities (not useable in PVP)

    AS WELL AS

    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.
    No, they also need to normalize gear and unlock all abilities/boons in PvP zones and let u respec your setup accordingly for the PvP matches. Then it's fixed. Just look at Gw2, a game that actually cares about and thinks about PvP balance.
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    i use caprse when fight is nicem does not last thru death
    u can easy get 100 in summer event and it will last you a year

    and Favor elixir that is presist thru death.
    cost u nothing with the inflation of mounts and companions.

    guild food is also ok. but all those that don't presist death are worthless (one runic bag to store them...)
    its easy to get if you want
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    @zeusom
    time to update the chart to include the new +2000 stats crafted potions lol instead of the master work + 1500 ones
  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User

    separating the low 70 from the high 70 is the only problem here for me

    the problem will still be the same : high level players will still have the upper hand, pots or no pots

    cut the level 70 in half and no gear change inside, that's it
    so low gear will go against their kind and have a chance to have a good fight

    most high end players use pots anyway

    I'm almost best in slot on my main and I still see players with blue/purple pve gear ... I am not trolling
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    I pot up for pvp however I DO NOT use drain wards... They are a cheap shot and just plain nasty.
  • aftershafteraftershafter Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    ayroux said:



    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.

    So, get rid of all campaign boons but keep SH boons... Is it your intent make the already significant gap between those not in well established guilds and those who are a gaping, insurmountable chasm?
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    ayroux said:



    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.

    So, get rid of all campaign boons but keep SH boons... Is it your intent make the already significant gap between those not in well established guilds and those who are a gaping, insurmountable chasm?
    If I had my way Id turn off SH boons only in domination, weaken GF's in PVP and make insignia's heal less.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,638 Arc User

    ayroux said:



    #3 All campaign boons (with the exception of SH Boons and PVP Boons) shut off in PVP.


    If all three things happened. It would largely fix PVP.

    So, get rid of all campaign boons but keep SH boons... Is it your intent make the already significant gap between those not in well established guilds and those who are a gaping, insurmountable chasm?
    Yes


  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    SH boons is one of the most disbalancing features in PVP these days....apart from pots, mountpowers, broken classes
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    @morenthar

    regarding potion removal and such ....
    I should not have to justify why i have to use wards to combat drains yet i am forced to do so and we could not get all guilds to remove/ not use them (drains )how much easier of a time do you think it would be to persuade people not to use/stack potions ?

    ... also like i said they are used in pve as well and cant be dismissed .. also in moderation they should be ok in a scence i am forced to pot up just like i am forced to use wards .even if i dont want to .Potions also have a much lower barrier to entry and are much cheaper then drains/wards

    also to combat shocking execution players were forced to stack and pot up as many hitpoints buffs as possible for it to be "fair" for them at least

    I support @ayroux stance and the rest of my guidies in this thread regarding pot removal (I FYI I helped come up with this list ) ..also in the preview thread I advocated there was /is too much power stat inflation ...also there were several direct quote that i sent to the dev reagrding pots and thier removal in the previews section that i can link if you like

    also my combined all time kills wins etc more then 2/3 were not in premades does it make it more ok to pot up if you are risking pugging it ..hmmm
    some people builds rely on said potion or buff to shore up a weakness / bolster a strength
    specifically the personne that put together the list was the only /few warlocks left in pvp and could only not die if they were potted up to counter other players buffs

    on a side note even fully potted as a cw i have next to no chance to kill anyone at my gear level 1 v 1 except another cw thats it i am potting up for defensive reason some may pot up for offensive ones ...if not its a stale mate....that may change next mods that cws can now start killing instead of just repeling

    like i said
    are you suggesting such player would quit pvp entirety if the mode they suggested was implemented and they could not pot up ? not me I went on to list many scenarios of why someone might be potted reagrdless of number of pots and that you cant dismiss them ..(which also has been an issue in premading vs a non potted team)

    the only reason the list was published from MY guild is cause we want them removed bro and the dev specificlly referenced the chart posted here in a thread
    also you took weeks sorry ...months !!! lol to respond to this thread much has happened since then in the forums or perhaps its cause of server downtime you replied lol

    i still stand by my original post perhaps you should reread it with a new perspective

    like @ayroux said
    "Better to have pots and buffs and not need them, than it is to not have them and need them. Considering how many there are, and if you happen to find yourself in a crucial premade situation, digging through bags to find the 15+ pots you need to apply mid match is NOT an option...."

    there is no control regarding who pot up its not a question in a premade about a "feeling of not needing to lose"
    so all pot up an arms race to waste and drain ads yes to re balance it again to null if all drink the same pots ..... the same way i always have to slot wards to counter some morons drains is the same way i feel about pots

    you cant dismiss them(pots) and known hamspter enemy players are going to pot to the max anyways and there is no way to control how they feel about using an item in the game ..so we are forced to use resources to rebalance it out and cryptic wins see by having an ad sink for pots as the result

    P.S you need to catch up on posts on the preview server regarding pvp : D but wait i see you posted there just the other day ..

    in conclusion cryptic will be forcing the tone down of amount of potions you can consume since player feel they earned everything and cant police themselves to not using pots and drains (which the devs created)

    if anything using potions is like renting item level and they/devs dont want to put potions into item level to reflect true power ...I asked and people disagreed lol
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    @morenthar Your inbox might bring you good cheer, surprises and gossips!
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