couple tank questions

brick · March 2017

Hey guys, looking at dusting off my pally. Couple questions. How do pallys get to 95% DR? is that even a goal or just attack hps?

Is relentless avenger still a no no in groups? I really like the power.

Also, has shield of faith replaced divine protector as the go to grp daily?

rjc9000 · March 2017

brick#6890 said:
Hey guys, looking at dusting off my pally. Couple questions. How do pallys get to 95% DR? is that even a goal or just attack hps?

Is relentless avenger still a no no in groups? I really like the power.

Also, has shield of faith replaced divine protector as the go to grp daily?

You have several ways to hit 95% DR.

Hold Shift, add 15% DR (tbh you can make this 5% if you have good Tab uptime).

Alternatively, if you learn to manage Absolution, you can put Absolution on yourself for 50% DR and then just use your innate DR stat/Defense to fill in the rest.

If you want to put your teammates at 95% DR guranteed, you put Absolution on them, put down Circle of Power, and hold Shift/Sanctuary on them

(If you're doing this, don't hold shift 24/7. I would actually only do this if you see your teammates in way of deadly attacks. Since you have a GF, you should recognize these moments).

Relentless Avenger still is good for annoying your teammates and building daily charge. Otherwise, it's taking up the slot of a more useful power, such as BO, Templar's, or Circle.

Both dailies are good. Don't spam these, save them for the "omg about to die" moments or "omg need to protect the team". Examples include FBI boss 2's 3 melee snap or FBI Drufti's Hypothetmia.

brick · March 2017

Also, Sanctuary is differnt from GFs shield block right? It just adds to the OPs total DR and isn't an extra layer of DR?

armadeonx · March 2017

The trick is to work backwards from 95%. With CoP giving 25% & 1 use of Divine Call giving you 10%, this means you can easily sit at 60% DR and achieve max in combat.

With no GF shield (don't rely on Sanctuary for anything but CC resist as it adds literally nothing) you use temp health as your shield so you need to maximise your damage output. (you are right with your last comment about adding to DR).

I only use SoF as I find DP to be just so ridiculously short. Good temp health, 95% DR and a 30% initial reduction on incoming damage should get you through pretty much anything and it lasts twice as long.

Yeah Relentless is still a no-no in groups. We've asked a few times for the devs to change it to a knockdown instead of a knockback but they aren't interested atm.

brick · March 2017

Or even a pull in would be amazing

Is CoP required??

Thinking of using wrath, burning light and binding for encounters

trzebiat · March 2017

Circle of Power went from useless to amazing power in Mod 10. It's a great buff - 25% DR for anyone, making it even easier to put allies at max DR and providing DR to you so you don't need to focus on defense, while also increasing your damage giving you better shield from Templar's Wrath. Also gives good amount of AP. For lower level it's great to use even on trash.

brick · March 2017

Ok, couple more questions.

Is the DR from aura of protection bugged? Or does it just not show up on the character sheet?

Has the taunt on binding oath been fixed?

And is there any must have mount bonuses for a prot pally? Thanks everyone!!

trzebiat · March 2017

Only Damage Resistance from Constitution, Armor Class and Defense rating shows up in stats. Buffs like Protection Oath, Divine Call, Negation, Circle of Power, Aura of Protection - don't.

All threat and aggro issues on OP were fixed AFAIK.

Yes, 15% AP over 10 seconds after using daily from Gorgon or Embellished Appartus of Gond. 25% from legendary snail, but for legendary mount you'd first want the lion.

brick · March 2017

I meant insignia bonuses.

So the DR buff from oath of protection doesn't show up on character sheet but it does work?

brick · March 2017

WAAAAAIIIIT hold up.

So the passive 10% from being prot doesn't show up, the 2.5% from the heroic feat doesn't show up and the 12.5% from real 4 aura of protection doesn't show up.

That's a total of 25%that's not on my sheet, but is actually working??

On console and hard to test.

That would leave me with only 70%total to get from other sources to get full DR cap?

armadeonx · March 2017

I wouldn't recommend using the Light's Shield feat as unlike most classes, the pally has a lot of decent heroic feats and placement is important. My personal preference (as human) is nwcalc

You get DR quite easily elsewhere so it's better to focus on crit, HP, AP gain and encounter cooldowns.

The benefit from Impassioned Pleas has been tested by players here and found to be not really worth it either - I've also respecced points out of there and found the difference to be small .

Note that with 3 points in Force of Will you don't need any points in Wisdom to get Critical Chance. NWcalc has a problem saving the 'human' tick box but I have 3 points in Force of Will.

brick · March 2017

Hey thanks for the heads up!

Do you know if the above statement is true though about the DR?

Hypothetically if you did use those feats and class feature, do you only need 70%to cap out?

armadeonx · March 2017

If you use CoP (25%) and Divine Call (10%) you only need 60% - you should only switch to aura of protection if your party need the DR boost - you should usually run with auras of courage and wisdom for the dps & recovery boosts as they speed up your runs.

I sit at ~64% DR and personally only use CoP on bosses. As I gain 10% DR from companion procs I usually run with 84% DR. CoP gives me the extra 11% and another 14% I don't need but it helps everyone else and boosts my temp health gen.

As you can see from this, the extra 2.5% from Light's Shield would be a waste of 5 points which are better spent elsewhere.

brick · March 2017

I'm not trying to come across as a jerk, i do very much appreciate your help, but what I'm asking is if the DR from lights shield and aura of protection are working, just not appearing on the character sheet.

And if someone were to hypothetically use them, along with the protection possible 10%, they would only need to come up with 70% DR from somewhere else to gain max DR.

armadeonx · March 2017

DW m8 I didn't read it as that way, I hope I didn't sound gruff as I was just typing quickly

According to testing done by @thefabricant Light's Shield works like this:

"Light’s Shield:
Like toughness, this gives you ((1.005)^rank-1)*100% DR per rank, rounded off to the nearest %. At rank 5, it therefore gives 3% DR."

So it is actually slightly higher than stated (and yep it works) but there's no note about whether it show up so my guess is it does - if you respecced without it your DR should (by my reckoning) drop by 3%.

Aura of Protection does work but doesn't show on your stats so it will bump you by 12.5%.

If you are currently running with low DR due to still being in the gearing up phase you could benefit from using it if it closes the gap between your current 'in-combat' DR and the ideal 95%.

Personally I focused on high DR (75% on gear) and about 140k HP until I had ranked things up (bondings etc) then started switching Defence for HP. I'm now at ~64% DR and ~192k HP and as I have r11 radiants I still have a little way to go.

brick · March 2017

My man, thank you very much for the reply. I really appreciate it.

That's all I'm trying to do is figure out my dr numbers before i start stacking the HPs

brick · March 2017

When picking boons power and hit points the priorities?

rubytrue · March 2017

brick#6890 said:
When picking boons power and hit points the priorities?

Yes. (Unless you are using boons to increase your DR and it is a choice between power and defense...in other words, it depends....)

armadeonx · March 2017

HP directly impacts in-combat abilities:
Oath of Protection - 10% of HP as power
Aura of Courage - dmg scales with HP
Binding Oath - 100% of HP as shield
Divine Call - reflect damage is 5% of max HP
Heroism - 100% of HP as temp health
Absolution - 50% of HP as a shield

Power is important, mostly due to sharing 25% of it but as a pure tanking stat (i.e. thinking selfishly about your own survival) you also need to prioritise critical chance. This impacts directly on your survival because if you crit on Templars Wrath you gain an extra 75-95% temp health; needless to say you want this to happen most of the time.

brick · March 2017

That's how I'm building, DR to 60% with the protection 10% plus CoP 25%

Then stacking critical and power.

Currently over on DR, I'll switch some things out on my companion.

My paper toon with companion proc is currently
157k HP
65k power
58% armor pen
72% crit
71% dr.

I'm gonna switch some of the azures on my summoned to radiants to get my dr down.

brick · March 2017

Ok so just to be 100% sure before i start trading/ selling enchants:

If my character sheet shows 60% DR, that plus the protection power for 10% and CoPs 25% that will put me at 95%for full DR cap, right,

armadeonx · March 2017

Yep that's right.

vincentr6669 · March 2017

There's also 10% from Divine Call.

junius · April 2017

Are we sure these are additive? And not multiplictive? As in its not 60+10+25=90 dr but [1-[(1-.6)(1-.1)(1-.25)]]x100=73% DR?

trzebiat · April 2017

All DR buffs are additive.

armadeonx · April 2017

I believe they are additive as they are not applied layers, which is what the multiplicative calculation is used for: combining layers into a sum of effectiveness.

michaelrn1982 · April 2017

Here's a pretty simple rundown of the OP Tank. Rather you take Justice or have figured out a viable Bulwark build (I am currently working on someonething towards Bulwark because everyone else is Justice and worried about DPS).

The ideal base DR is around 65% as @armadeonx has stated that they are around the same. Below are some numbers that will help hit that sweet spot while tanking.

Divine Call Use: 10%
Stand Fast (If taken): 5%
Light's Shield(if Taken: 2.5% (with an understanding of the 3% tested)
Aura of Protection: 12.5%

These alone would give 30% with 20% of it being passive (I consider standing still passive). This would give you the base of 85% without Divine Call and 95% with.

I understand CoP is amazing if you need the 25% DR and extra DPS. My question to the community is if you are not focused on DPS and are focused on other utilities, would you weigh using other utilities over this?

For example:

Bane reduces 10% damage per stack (max 3), regardless of who is getting hit.
Absolution at rank 4 gives a 50% shield (can be casted on multiple targets, does not expire over time).
Smite reduces targets damage by 15% for 3 seconds (damage and debuff in one).
Binding Oath gives a shield, and returns half to you once depleted or expired (and this will eat temp and not actual hp).
Vow increases damage to the target for 8 seconds, and also gives you aggro as your allies deal damage (more damage for all, more aggro for you).

In this list alone, I see quite a few situation utilities for tanking.

Again, the focus is not how much damage you can do, but how much damage you can take on and the ability to keep stuff off your allies. Really pushing to take tanking back to the basics. This seems to be a forgotten art.

rubytrue · April 2017

michaelrn1982 said:

I understand CoP is amazing if you need the 25% DR and extra DPS. My question to the community is if you are not focused on DPS and are focused on other utilities, would you weigh using other utilities over this?

If you go Bulwark rather than Justice, then it is legitimate to ask whether or not to take CoP as there are, as you show, many options to consider. For any tank that goes Justice, however, CoP is almost mandated due to it's interaction with the Justice Capstone, Judge and Divine Call generation. But that begs the question: If you can have those other powers you listed (which are good) recharge 35% faster, why wouldn't you do it?

For more info on how CoP interacts with the Justice Capstone, refer to this thread: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1229916/vj-bov-cop-eol-statistical-discoveries-and-analysis

michaelrn1982 · April 2017

I think it goes without saying that it depends on the build and intention of the player. That's the beauty of Neverwinter and the versatility of the builds.

One of the issues I personally am encountering is half of Bulwark is not even worth taking currently because it is not scaled with the current content. I have left feedback on this in hopes development would take a look at it. I would prefer the Bulwark build over Justice. The 35% reduced cooldown from Justice is nice, as well the 5% from Echos of Light. It is not a critical thing in my current Protection build though, and I have been able to tank with TW and BO not on cooldown (thus the 35% is wasted on items not on cooldown, but keeping the 10% DR is helpful).

On a side note, I think having both Dev and Prot OP's in a group have an amazing synergy and can effectively combat most things that stand in their way.

rubytrue · April 2017

michaelrn1982 said:

On a side note, I think having both Dev and Prot OP's in a group have an amazing synergy and can effectively combat most things that stand in their way.

They do, and you will have to hook up with us and do some runs.

michaelrn1982 · April 2017

Sounds like a plan. Had fun last time.

couple tank questions

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