Chaos Abyss or Icy Veins?

jano · March 2017

I have run exclusively as a ss renegade since I started on ps4 and was thinking of trying thaum out. My question is should i go for chaos abyss in the renegade tree or icy veins in the oppressor tree. Both seem usefull to me. I love my current build but im curious how mich more dps i can do as a thaum. In mob heavy dungeons i usually top the paingiver but i get my butt kicked in single target fights. Last nite in a fbi run i was ahead by 50 mil against a rogue going into the last two boss fights, at the end the rogue was 80 mil ahead.

beckylunatic · March 2017

Abyss for more DPS and Icy Veins for more control/support. If you're specifically looking to build for more DPS, then Abyss makes more sense.

dairyzeus · March 2017

beckylunatic said:
Abyss for more DPS and Icy Veins for more control/support. If you're specifically looking to build for more DPS, then Abyss makes more sense.

That's true in a strict sense, but icy veins gives far greater burst dps due to chilling presence doubling in effectivness against frozen enemies.

I've found when i switch from icy veins to abyss I kill way slower.

Then again, I'm a 4.3 IL who primarily runs with similarly geared players. Burst dps becomes more important the faster your runs get.

Without icy veins I also have to play far more cautiously as I can't really count on freeze as a form of cc.

Both are good options, it comes down to playstyle preference and the types of groups you run with.

If you've never used icy veins though I highly recommend at least trying it. The first time I used it I fell in love. It really is a pretty game changing feat.

jano · March 2017

i chose icy veins, it seems fun and has some utility against trash mobs. Will use it for awhile then try chaos abyss.

niadan · March 2017

Abyss for SS Thaum BIS endgame in my opinion is best. But either way you can't go wrong.

the49erking · March 2017

Will Abyss proc your lightning enchantment?

dairyzeus · March 2017

the49erking#0516 said:
Will Abyss proc your lightning enchantment?

Other way around, lightning proc's abyss. Source, fabricant's almost everything guide.

niadan · March 2017

"Entities" proc Abyss:
IT
COI
Companion
Party members
Lightning

Probably others but you get the idea.

fantasticm · March 2017

All I can tell you is google sharpedge control wizard guide. Everything you need to know about cw is tested there and written in plain English for everyone to understand.

As for cc, everything that can be controlled doesn't need to cause it dies too quickly and everything that needs controlling can't be controlled. Welcome to pre mod 6

mebengalsfan · March 2017

dairyzeus said:

beckylunatic said:
Abyss for more DPS and Icy Veins for more control/support. If you're specifically looking to build for more DPS, then Abyss makes more sense.
That's true in a strict sense, but icy veins gives far greater burst dps due to chilling presence doubling in effectivness against frozen enemies.

I've found when i switch from icy veins to abyss I kill way slower.

Then again, I'm a 4.3 IL who primarily runs with similarly geared players. Burst dps becomes more important the faster your runs get.

Without icy veins I also have to play far more cautiously as I can't really count on freeze as a form of cc.

Both are good options, it comes down to playstyle preference and the types of groups you run with.

If you've never used icy veins though I highly recommend at least trying it. The first time I used it I fell in love. It really is a pretty game changing feat.

At 2.6K IL I will state that I also experienced something similar. Damage wise going into eToS, CC, GWD, and CN my damage is about the same with IV or CA. On adds I believe IV wins out and on bosses CA wins out but by the time you hit the end of the dungeon they even out for the most part.

I have played Renegade Oppressor build, Renegade Thaum, Thaum Renegade and Thaum Oppressor as both MoF and SS. I prefer MoF going either as Thaum Oppressor or Renegade Oppressor for the freezing effective of IV.

As for the players stating that you don't need controlling are probably referring to running with a group of near max IL players who burn through CN and lower content and rarely need a Healer or Tank for those content. If you are running with those type of groups than CA is the way to go but if you are running with characters equal to or lower than your IL and finding adds to be hitting you or your group than go with IV.

I tend to end up running with characters similar to my IL and I'm glad I have IV.

I'm currently a Renegade Oppressor and miss Twisting Spell feat. I did swap out my chest piece for the Silken Robes for the added Recovery but the Twisted Spell feat is better than 1.4K recover I have from my chest piece and may go back to Thaut. Oppressor.

What I like about the Renegade build I am using I get both CA and IV along with Chaos Magic to buff my group. Damage is a bit lower than the Thaut. Oppressor build but I am helping my group out with buffs and I think that helps improve the runs a bit more than say gaining 20% more in my damage.

zekehubris · March 2017

I'm currently a Renegade Oppressor and miss Twisting Spell feat. I did swap out my chest piece for the Silken Robes for the added Recovery but the Twisted Spell feat is better than 1.4K recover I have from my chest piece and may go back to Thaut. Oppressor.

I'm also currently running Renegade Oppressor with IV and CA. I use a Trans. Lightning and find that the cooldown reduction from that goes a long way towards offsetting the loss of spell twisting.

mebengalsfan · March 2017

zekehubris said:

I'm also currently running Renegade Oppressor with IV and CA. I use a Trans. Lightning and find that the cooldown reduction from that goes a long way towards offsetting the loss of spell twisting.

I currently have the regular lighting enchantment. I don't want to invest the money and time is limited so I will take whatever I have for now.

When I used the Silken robes along with recovery enchantments, spelling twisting and the Lighting enchantments I had no complaints about powers recovery time. IV, CoI and Dis felt like they were always off cool down.

I like what I have now but am still thinking of going back Thaum Oppressor for the extra damage I do to make my dailies easier.

disposablehero · March 2017

Abyss is a good alternative to Icy Veins for anyone running with Combustive Action. I use it for my MoF Renegade and I have no complaints at all. I would suggest Nightmare Wizardry for anyone going Renegade though, it is very effective.

kozi001 · March 2017

Wait for loadout and have both...

aaramis75 · March 2017

The thing I'm finding with Spell Twisting is that if your group has the dps where everything just melts, and you only get 1 encounter off (usually IT or CoI), then the usefulness of the feat is lessened considerably. Moreso if you don't even have a chance to get an at-will off.

In which case lightning's CD reduction may actually be more useful to you.

YMMV of course. But I'm currently considering testing out Ren/Opp instead of Thaum/Opp and seeing how things work out.

mebengalsfan · March 2017

aaramis75 said:
The thing I'm finding with Spell Twisting is that if your group has the dps where everything just melts, and you only get 1 encounter off (usually IT or CoI), then the usefulness of the feat is lessened considerably. Moreso if you don't even have a chance to get an at-will off.

In which case lightning's CD reduction may actually be more useful to you.

YMMV of course. But I'm currently considering testing out Ren/Opp instead of Thaum/Opp and seeing how things work out.

Ren/Opp I took a big damage loss going that path. When I run with my friend who has a base of 30K power as a DC I see 1 million hits in damage with Icy Knife pretty regularly when I'm Thaum/Opp. When I was Ren/Opp the biggest I got Icy Knife to hit for was around 650K or so.

The nice thing with Ren/Opp is you get both IV and CA but you miss out on the feats that improve your damage and instead get feats to boost the group damage.

Ren/Opp is great if you run with a group that wants to maximize buffing but most groups I ran with when pugging simply kicked me for a lack of damage as a CW vs those who were Thaum/Opp, even if I was buffing the group with my Chaos Magic and other feats.

frozenfirevr · March 2017

disposablehero#5903 said:
Abyss is a good alternative to Icy Veins for anyone running with Combustive Action. I use it for my MoF Renegade and I have no complaints at all. I would suggest Nightmare Wizardry for anyone going Renegade though, it is very effective.

Why should you have to choose @disposablehero#5903? I use both.

dupeks · March 2017

frozenfirevr said:

disposablehero#5903 said:
Abyss is a good alternative to Icy Veins for anyone running with Combustive Action. I use it for my MoF Renegade and I have no complaints at all. I would suggest Nightmare Wizardry for anyone going Renegade though, it is very effective.
Why should you have to choose @disposablehero#5903? I use both.

Agree Abyss and Nightmare Wizardry are both awesome, near must-haves for buff/debuff builds. Besides, Icy Veins interferes with smolder stacking so it's sensible to drop.

frozenfirevr · April 2017

dupeks said:

frozenfirevr said:

disposablehero#5903 said:
Abyss is a good alternative to Icy Veins for anyone running with Combustive Action. I use it for my MoF Renegade and I have no complaints at all. I would suggest Nightmare Wizardry for anyone going Renegade though, it is very effective.
Why should you have to choose @disposablehero#5903? I use both.
Agree Abyss and Nightmare Wizardry are both awesome, near must-haves for buff/debuff builds. Besides, Icy Veins interferes with smolder stacking so it's sensible to drop.

But, I don't see a reason to drop it. You can have all 3 without any buff/debuff loss.

disposablehero · April 2017

frozenfirevr said:

dupeks said:

frozenfirevr said:

disposablehero#5903 said:
Abyss is a good alternative to Icy Veins for anyone running with Combustive Action. I use it for my MoF Renegade and I have no complaints at all. I would suggest Nightmare Wizardry for anyone going Renegade though, it is very effective.
Why should you have to choose @disposablehero#5903? I use both.
Agree Abyss and Nightmare Wizardry are both awesome, near must-haves for buff/debuff builds. Besides, Icy Veins interferes with smolder stacking so it's sensible to drop.
But, I don't see a reason to drop it. You can have all 3 without any buff/debuff loss.

True, but I use spell twisting as well, so I had to choose what to get and what to drop. I stack smolder with Combustive and Swath, and spam Oppressive Force. I also went full Renegade and got the capstone feat.

niadan · April 2017

Do the Mirages from the Mod 11 weapon proc Abyss?

frozenfirevr · April 2017

niadan said:
Do the Mirages from the Mod 11 weapon proc Abyss?

Hmm... I think they should. But I'd assume they're too slow.

niadan · April 2017

I do not have the set, but as a second set to my relic set, I am interested in how the Mirages attack and what they can, if anything, proc:

Lightning
Abyss of Chaos
Storm Spell
Aura of Courage
...

Chaos Abyss or Icy Veins?

Comments