Killing flames is just insane, especially when an enemy is missing HP and it crits, you can pump out some really crazy numbers with it, plus it's another soul investiture move for you (when you use it to kill an enemy it will power up your soul puppet, keep an eye out for abilities that summon soul puppets, if you use one and you already have one out it gets a power boost) Damnation uses the same soul puppet, except it never disappears once you summon it (unless it dies, but then you can summon it again by attacking)
For Rebuke it depends, personally I prefer the DOT version as on Fury it keeps ticking and procing creeping death while you do other attacks. Gates of hell is good for wiping out large groups of easy to kill enemies at once, but that's pretty much it, and no it doesn't always crit, trust me. Lol
They nerfed T. Curse to death, before the last nerf it used to increase your damage based on your power stat, now it's a flat 20% increase same as a warlocks curse (the two don't stack either) so best to think of it as a warlocks curse that can spread damage to other enemies.
Determined casting is awesome for skills that can end up taking a while to recharge, like arms of hadar and hadars grasp, I've noticed in general with it I can keep cycling through my rotations a lot quicker, but it's up to you and your preferences at the end of the day.
You actually can get boons later that increase your power and recovery, based on how low your stamina bar is so I like to keep it as low as possible, the regular shadow slip does its dodging job for me, learn to time it right and you can become immune to any attack.
I think once you make a certain amount of posts here the restriction will lift, took me a few days of commenting back when I joined during the Summer.
I know about puppet re-summon buff, but with Damnation it theoretically gets this buff on each kill under Warlock's Curse + on damage every 15 seconds? Does this power up stack?
Didn't know about T. Curse nerf, but as HB, I don't think there's any other option left, on the side note SB's Immolation Spirits looks pretty good, but switching just because of that doesn't feel reasonable. Actually, what about Accursed Souls or Flames of Phlegethos? I've been using Souls and they seem like very good mob cleaner + quick healing. I dropped it because I thought T. Curse is better and with Damnation I don't really need another Puppet summon. Never used Flames tho...
Good to know about Power/Recovery boons. I guess I'll go for Casting Feat then.
I know about puppet re-summon buff, but with Damnation it theoretically gets this buff on each kill under Warlock's Curse + on damage every 15 seconds? Does this power up stack?
Didn't know about T. Curse nerf, but as HB, I don't think there's any other option left, on the side note SB's Immolation Spirits looks pretty good, but switching just because of that doesn't feel reasonable. Actually, what about Accursed Souls or Flames of Phlegethos? I've been using Souls and they seem like very good mob cleaner + quick healing. I dropped it because I thought T. Curse is better and with Damnation I don't really need another Puppet summon. Never used Flames tho...
Good to know about Power/Recovery boons. I guess I'll go for Casting Feat then.
The buffs stack up to about 23 times or so.
As HB I use Brood of Hadar, it's the best single target daily we have.
Accursed Souls is good for AOE damage, not a fan of Phlegethos, prefer brood personally for single target, and Gates of Hell/Accursed souls are better for AOE.
23? Seriously? I've been keeping an eye on buffs of my Puppet and I don't think I've seen number going above 3. If it really gets so high, then Accursed Souls all the way.
Currently I'm really torn about Class Features. Been testing No Pity, No Mercy with Rebuke which removes DoT and gives +50% damage buff and combat advantage debuff on crit. Feels too darn good atm. I'm going for this rotation: Warlock's Curse > Pillar > Bargain > spam Rebuke and throw Hadar and Fiery Bolt when ready in between. Killing Flames has bigger initial damage, but with Bargain, besides decent damage, we also get +15% dmg buff on linked target, which makes Rebuke even better as dmg numbers raise with levels and equipment.
Also I don't see much reason in All Consuming Curse, my Puppet applies Lesser pretty early with 25% chance in boss fights, and if I want Lesser on Mob - Accursed Souls does it 100%. Currently thinking about having No Pity and Flames of Empowerment active, though curious about Deadly Curse too. Haven't seen any guides suggesting it and haven't seen any numbers of actual damage dealt too, how much it's suppose to be or is it really that bad?
At-Wills: Hellish Rebuke/Dark Spiral Encounters: Hadar's Grasp/Fiery Bolt/Pillar of Power (switching Fiery Bolt for Killing Flames on boss targets) Dailies: Brood of Hadar/Accursed Souls Class Features: Flames of Empowerment/No Pity, No Mercy
Feels like Warlock's Bargain does more damage than Hadar's Grasp overall plus great lifesteal, but it's hard to tell and considering Damnation tree, Hadar's Grasp still seems more viable option. Though I'm still not sure about which encounter is better here.
Heavily struggling with stamina, regen is very slow and running out of it in a blink, what would you suggest? I don't have any input on equipment yet, still too early in a game. For now aiming for Drowcraft armor and Twisted weapon sets. Later on will probably go for Orcus Artifact Set.
It's hard to find any fresh builds on Damnation, so I'm trying to put together whatever I can, tips are very welcome.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited April 2017
Stamina issues? just run Shadow Walk. NPNM is useless for damnation when you have a companion and a puppet surrounding mobs for easy CA.
Stamina issues? just run Shadow Walk. NPNM is useless for damnation when you have a companion and a puppet surrounding mobs for easy CA.
You get more mobility, LS, puppet gets more LS.
The main question in this case: does HR dot stack? Because if not, NPNM is essential, losing instant +50% damage boost doesn't feel like a good idea. Can't find anywhere if it does or not.
Considering Shadow Walk, I get more LS, good, but wouldn't All Consuming Curse be better in this case? It gives mobility but I still won't have enough stamina and regen still gonna be slow. ACC is 100% Lesser Curse on crit and +50% damage buff to it, plus many builds suggest it as a must have.
And last thing, is the Hope Stealer in Temptation tree good choice? Does it affect my puppet? I was thinking to relocate points to either Critical Promise or Power of The Nine Hells, but last one is only 50% buff to allies and I don't need +duration when out of circle because CD is pretty fast as it is.
I use NPNM+FoE as temptation. CA bonus at once to a hole mobgroup by one AoH crit is too good to miss. ACC is only essential for fury/Creeping death. I did test AoH, vs Hadar Grasp vs Warlocks Bargain with a 100% critbuild on single target, running temptation. WB definitely won the race, having a shorter CD than HG. HG is a bit unhandy because it consumes WC and even tough AoH should be the better trade, it is not in my setup. HR dot doesn't stack from what I read and tested, the difference in DPS being temp is not that big, having Gatekeepers Empowerment it is equal imo. Critical promis is HAMSTER, go for power of the nine allways must have
@schietindebux Hmm, I can't get definitive answer anywhere about Hellish Rebuke dot, because if it stacks, NPNM becomes useless. As poster above said, with puppet + companion and especially in group content combat advantage doesn't seem so necessary, so I keep NPNM purely for damage boost when I spam HR. If it doesn't stack, but refresh, damage must be rather pathetic.
Thanks for clearing out about ACC.
What I like about WB is mainly superior damage and shorter CD. Lifesteal and dmg link comes as a bonus. But with Damnation tree, HG feels like a better synergy, because firstly when you fire it on cursed target it boosts stun duration by 50% and during that period target gets +15% dmg by Puppet and Lesser Curse which is almost 100% on. Aside from that I get additional boost with Parting Blasphemy feat which deal weap % damage to target when WC removed. Without it, this feat is just a placeholder. I don't see WC removal as an issue, but long CD and not so good dmg feels like a bad trade, and I don't really need stun that much... On a side note, Warlock's Bargain is said to be the Curse, so in theory, may Hadar's Grasp actually boost it's damage? Because it's dot and pretty good one. So if it does, I might wanna swap Killing Flames with Hadar's Grasp on bosses instead... Any info on that?
I generally avoid AoH because it's basically a melee skill, and I'm trying to stay away from close range as much as possible.
Once I get a chance, I'll probably relocate points from Hope Stealer to Nine Hells then, thx.
HR doesn´t stack last time I checked, that´s definitely sure. The initial hit from HR is only 15%, rest is the DOT (7 ticks) about 85% of all damage, but being refrehed it does not stack. Only option is to go for HR (refreshing repeatedly) and spamming HoB. By that I deal less dps than with HR-NPNM spamming. If you run a lighning or a Bilethorn, than you may be better doing HR+HoB due to multiprocs from HoB. Another option is tp spread HR on all mobs...maybe that´s a way to do better in FBI, spreading HR and let that DOT tick being refreshed on it´s own...but that´s the only way to benefit, since in all other dungeons the mobs die in seconds.
I tested HR with NPNM+FoE vs FoE+ flanking the dummy with my companion, so same condition, having CA that way. Using NPNM i dealt slightly more dps than without. A fury get´s that feat wich buff the dot, so it euquals out the dps I would say. And that´s what I tested repeatedly, during several mods.
Not sure if HG buffs WB last I checked, I guess it does.. can´t remember, but I looked exaxctly for ths synergy, brain..but that is not working on a boss 100% sure. PS: -- Tested WB + HG, WB does not get buffed
I don´t use HG+PB and curseconsume , the dealt weapondamage is not that much. 50% of weapondamage is near nothing by using HG 4 times a minute, it´s like 0-1 %...more 0%. you just don´t remove curses any more, that ended with last rework making those feats useless imo.
HG is unhandy due to long CD and due to the need to refresh that WC ----WC-HG-WC plus that fkn long coooldown, otherwise you lose 20% of your total dps (all dots that tick), the moment you fail to refresh, wich happens time by time because Warlocks Curse is HAMSTER to apply. WB is a no brainer and is up in no time again, in case you target another mob
NPNM is not needed if you have a good GF using enforced threat and marking all trash propperly or if you run with a rene mof. At endboss CA is up 100% normally. Beside that it is a very nice opener, using a FB or AoH getting instant CA from a crit. There are more ways like flanking, sure puppet/companion...but 1. puppet is a slow HAMSTER and a companion spends CA to one mob, not a hole group at once like NPNM+crit...not sure if there are Companions that spend CA by cc towards a hole mobgroup? If you run FBI, your group is spread and the giants are cc resistent, CA is not up all time automatically, especially if all run like headless chicken in circles. No big benefit from HG 15%+ effectivness (to curses and puppet) because those giants are cc immune. mSP is better for sure, but mobs die in short time, like seconds, so it´s only from rare use, maybe 1. or 3. boss on ads /tentakel.
Imo, you defintely can use NPNM as damantion doing trash same as doing dungeons, depending on your group, since you do not lose dps and win a constant multiplier x1.4 from CA on "non-crits" (PoP/IC) and about a multiplier like x1,2 on crits on your dps.
Alternatives are for temp/damnation: Shadow slip, nice but no dps increase, more usefull for- temp Dark One's Blessing, no dps increase , LS +10%--------temp Deadly curse turns into <1% overall damage --------- too bad Warding curse, dark prayer, prince of hell------------no dps buff ACC ------------------------------------------ is from benefit using Firy bolt or DT (defense stacksx3) or being a furylock proccing CD, so you won´t get much back from that feat as temp/damnation
I can´t find anything better than a constant CA bonus, sure depending on your group. I group a lot with random player and I can confirm. The GF is not allways marking all enemies instantly and propperly. I can´t remember when I run with a rene mof last time, seems like that tree is not very popular any more...everyone wants to be a dps and that what this game forces everyone into. Tr´s normally daze hole groups, but smokebomb doesn´t spend CA, if I am right? Beside that TR´s are a CA guarant for cc-able mobgroups GWF and Daring shout, sure that works as long as mobs are marked... but those guys run ahead and get hit in one second, mark vanishes that way , CA gone etc.
..it all depends on your group I would say. I tend to ask from time to time, if a player/class uses feats/powers for group-CA or know if their class spends CA. Guess how many answers I got....zero. The average NWO player doesn´t know anyting about his class and abilites and you have to deal with it.
@schietindebux Well, thanks for such comprehensive breakdown, I have much better idea now about that build. Probably will relocate points from Parting Blasphemy to Relentless Curse as soon as I'm able.
Question: Does Parting Blasphemy feat trigger on Lesser Curse and Warlock's Bargain? Tooltip says it fires up when curse is removed. Lesser Curse vanish after some time and WB effect has duration too, so technically those are both curses and they get removed automatically, so how does it work exactly?
I don't think so, I will try later though and let you know if it does. Btw, these forums are fairly quiet, I personally prefer the Neverwinter Reddit, you'll get answers to questions like these much quicker.
I don't think so, I will try later though and let you know if it does. Btw, these forums are fairly quiet, I personally prefer the Neverwinter Reddit, you'll get answers to questions like these much quicker.
Thanks. Reddit is a bit hectic, on forums I usually always got more reliable answers. I asked my guild and alliances too, no one could give definitive answer, but it's pretty important for me to know since loadouts are coming. It would be really surprising if mechanic only bound to few WC removing skills...
hello i have a question its true what puppet no longer recibe damage buffs from DC or yourself with pilar of power ? how can posible the max hit the Lysaaera´s puppet was 2kk (See ACTmain post) and second question if puppet not beneficts with crit (because not do crit hits) its better idea go for power overall actually have crit chance 63% and power 48k and have feat ghastly comander and heroics feats empowered rituals its few damage to own same vs build fury. And how can do more damage in bosess ? i thinking increase damage of my lesser curse and all DoTs but not sure
Comments
Damnation uses the same soul puppet, except it never disappears once you summon it (unless it dies, but then you can summon it again by attacking)
For Rebuke it depends, personally I prefer the DOT version as on Fury it keeps ticking and procing creeping death while you do other attacks.
Gates of hell is good for wiping out large groups of easy to kill enemies at once, but that's pretty much it, and no it doesn't always crit, trust me. Lol
They nerfed T. Curse to death, before the last nerf it used to increase your damage based on your power stat, now it's a flat 20% increase same as a warlocks curse (the two don't stack either) so best to think of it as a warlocks curse that can spread damage to other enemies.
Determined casting is awesome for skills that can end up taking a while to recharge, like arms of hadar and hadars grasp, I've noticed in general with it I can keep cycling through my rotations a lot quicker, but it's up to you and your preferences at the end of the day.
You actually can get boons later that increase your power and recovery, based on how low your stamina bar is so I like to keep it as low as possible, the regular shadow slip does its dodging job for me, learn to time it right and you can become immune to any attack.
I think once you make a certain amount of posts here the restriction will lift, took me a few days of commenting back when I joined during the Summer.
Didn't know about T. Curse nerf, but as HB, I don't think there's any other option left, on the side note SB's Immolation Spirits looks pretty good, but switching just because of that doesn't feel reasonable. Actually, what about Accursed Souls or Flames of Phlegethos? I've been using Souls and they seem like very good mob cleaner + quick healing. I dropped it because I thought T. Curse is better and with Damnation I don't really need another Puppet summon. Never used Flames tho...
Good to know about Power/Recovery boons. I guess I'll go for Casting Feat then.
As HB I use Brood of Hadar, it's the best single target daily we have.
Accursed Souls is good for AOE damage, not a fan of Phlegethos, prefer brood personally for single target, and Gates of Hell/Accursed souls are better for AOE.
Currently I'm really torn about Class Features. Been testing No Pity, No Mercy with Rebuke which removes DoT and gives +50% damage buff and combat advantage debuff on crit. Feels too darn good atm. I'm going for this rotation:
Warlock's Curse > Pillar > Bargain > spam Rebuke and throw Hadar and Fiery Bolt when ready in between. Killing Flames has bigger initial damage, but with Bargain, besides decent damage, we also get +15% dmg buff on linked target, which makes Rebuke even better as dmg numbers raise with levels and equipment.
Also I don't see much reason in All Consuming Curse, my Puppet applies Lesser pretty early with 25% chance in boss fights, and if I want Lesser on Mob - Accursed Souls does it 100%. Currently thinking about having No Pity and Flames of Empowerment active, though curious about Deadly Curse too. Haven't seen any guides suggesting it and haven't seen any numbers of actual damage dealt too, how much it's suppose to be or is it really that bad?
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/sw?b=37pm:12d63yz:f6sh:7gb6a,1r0iu2i:1000000:1uu0zzv:1500000&h=0&p=hlb&o=20
At-Wills: Hellish Rebuke/Dark Spiral
Encounters: Hadar's Grasp/Fiery Bolt/Pillar of Power (switching Fiery Bolt for Killing Flames on boss targets)
Dailies: Brood of Hadar/Accursed Souls
Class Features: Flames of Empowerment/No Pity, No Mercy
Feels like Warlock's Bargain does more damage than Hadar's Grasp overall plus great lifesteal, but it's hard to tell and considering Damnation tree, Hadar's Grasp still seems more viable option. Though I'm still not sure about which encounter is better here.
Heavily struggling with stamina, regen is very slow and running out of it in a blink, what would you suggest?
I don't have any input on equipment yet, still too early in a game. For now aiming for Drowcraft armor and Twisted weapon sets. Later on will probably go for Orcus Artifact Set.
It's hard to find any fresh builds on Damnation, so I'm trying to put together whatever I can, tips are very welcome.
You get more mobility, LS, puppet gets more LS.
Considering Shadow Walk, I get more LS, good, but wouldn't All Consuming Curse be better in this case? It gives mobility but I still won't have enough stamina and regen still gonna be slow. ACC is 100% Lesser Curse on crit and +50% damage buff to it, plus many builds suggest it as a must have.
And last thing, is the Hope Stealer in Temptation tree good choice? Does it affect my puppet? I was thinking to relocate points to either Critical Promise or Power of The Nine Hells, but last one is only 50% buff to allies and I don't need +duration when out of circle because CD is pretty fast as it is.
CA bonus at once to a hole mobgroup by one AoH crit is too good to miss.
ACC is only essential for fury/Creeping death.
I did test AoH, vs Hadar Grasp vs Warlocks Bargain with a 100% critbuild on single target, running temptation. WB definitely won the race, having a shorter CD than HG.
HG is a bit unhandy because it consumes WC and even tough AoH should be the better trade, it is not in my setup.
HR dot doesn't stack from what I read and tested, the difference in DPS being temp is not that big, having Gatekeepers Empowerment it is equal imo.
Critical promis is HAMSTER, go for power of the nine allways must have
Hmm, I can't get definitive answer anywhere about Hellish Rebuke dot, because if it stacks, NPNM becomes useless. As poster above said, with puppet + companion and especially in group content combat advantage doesn't seem so necessary, so I keep NPNM purely for damage boost when I spam HR. If it doesn't stack, but refresh, damage must be rather pathetic.
Thanks for clearing out about ACC.
What I like about WB is mainly superior damage and shorter CD. Lifesteal and dmg link comes as a bonus. But with Damnation tree, HG feels like a better synergy, because firstly when you fire it on cursed target it boosts stun duration by 50% and during that period target gets +15% dmg by Puppet and Lesser Curse which is almost 100% on. Aside from that I get additional boost with Parting Blasphemy feat which deal weap % damage to target when WC removed. Without it, this feat is just a placeholder. I don't see WC removal as an issue, but long CD and not so good dmg feels like a bad trade, and I don't really need stun that much...
On a side note, Warlock's Bargain is said to be the Curse, so in theory, may Hadar's Grasp actually boost it's damage? Because it's dot and pretty good one. So if it does, I might wanna swap Killing Flames with Hadar's Grasp on bosses instead... Any info on that?
I generally avoid AoH because it's basically a melee skill, and I'm trying to stay away from close range as much as possible.
Once I get a chance, I'll probably relocate points from Hope Stealer to Nine Hells then, thx.
The initial hit from HR is only 15%, rest is the DOT (7 ticks) about 85% of all damage, but being refrehed it does not stack.
Only option is to go for HR (refreshing repeatedly) and spamming HoB. By that I deal less dps than with HR-NPNM spamming. If you run a lighning or a Bilethorn, than you may be better doing HR+HoB due to multiprocs from HoB.
Another option is tp spread HR on all mobs...maybe that´s a way to do better in FBI, spreading HR and let that DOT tick being refreshed on it´s own...but that´s the only way to benefit, since in all other dungeons the mobs die in seconds.
I tested HR with NPNM+FoE vs FoE+ flanking the dummy with my companion, so same condition, having CA that way. Using NPNM i dealt slightly more dps than without. A fury get´s that feat wich buff the dot, so it euquals out the dps I would say. And that´s what I tested repeatedly, during several mods.
Not sure if HG buffs WB last I checked, I guess it does.. can´t remember, but I looked exaxctly for ths synergy, brain..but that is not working on a boss 100% sure.
PS: -- Tested WB + HG, WB does not get buffed
I don´t use HG+PB and curseconsume , the dealt weapondamage is not that much. 50% of weapondamage is near nothing by using HG 4 times a minute, it´s like 0-1 %...more 0%. you just don´t remove curses any more, that ended with last rework making those feats useless imo.
HG is unhandy due to long CD and due to the need to refresh that WC ----WC-HG-WC plus that fkn long coooldown, otherwise you lose 20% of your total dps (all dots that tick), the moment you fail to refresh, wich happens time by time because Warlocks Curse is HAMSTER to apply. WB is a no brainer and is up in no time again, in case you target another mob
NPNM is not needed if you have a good GF using enforced threat and marking all trash propperly or if you run with a rene mof. At endboss CA is up 100% normally. Beside that it is a very nice opener, using a FB or AoH getting instant CA from a crit. There are more ways like flanking, sure puppet/companion...but 1. puppet is a slow HAMSTER
If you run FBI, your group is spread and the giants are cc resistent, CA is not up all time automatically, especially if all run like headless chicken in circles. No big benefit from HG 15%+ effectivness (to curses and puppet) because those giants are cc immune.
mSP is better for sure, but mobs die in short time, like seconds, so it´s only from rare use, maybe 1. or 3. boss on ads /tentakel.
Imo, you defintely can use NPNM as damantion doing trash same as doing dungeons, depending on your group, since you do not lose dps and win a constant multiplier x1.4 from CA on "non-crits" (PoP/IC) and about a multiplier like x1,2 on crits on your dps.
Alternatives are for temp/damnation:
Shadow slip, nice but no dps increase, more usefull for- temp
Dark One's Blessing, no dps increase , LS +10%--------temp
Deadly curse turns into <1% overall damage --------- too bad
Warding curse, dark prayer, prince of hell------------no dps buff
ACC ------------------------------------------ is from benefit using Firy bolt or DT (defense stacksx3) or being a furylock proccing CD, so you won´t get much back from that feat as temp/damnation
I can´t find anything better than a constant CA bonus, sure depending on your group. I group a lot with random player and I can confirm.
The GF is not allways marking all enemies instantly and propperly.
I can´t remember when I run with a rene mof last time, seems like that tree is not very popular any more...everyone wants to be a dps and that what this game forces everyone into.
Tr´s normally daze hole groups, but smokebomb doesn´t spend CA, if I am right? Beside that TR´s are a CA guarant for cc-able mobgroups
GWF and Daring shout, sure that works as long as mobs are marked... but those guys run ahead and get hit in one second, mark vanishes that way , CA gone etc.
..it all depends on your group I would say.
I tend to ask from time to time, if a player/class uses feats/powers for group-CA or know if their class spends CA. Guess how many answers I got....zero.
The average NWO player doesn´t know anyting about his class and abilites and you have to deal with it.
Well, thanks for such comprehensive breakdown, I have much better idea now about that build. Probably will relocate points from Parting Blasphemy to Relentless Curse as soon as I'm able.
Does Parting Blasphemy feat trigger on Lesser Curse and Warlock's Bargain? Tooltip says it fires up when curse is removed. Lesser Curse vanish after some time and WB effect has duration too, so technically those are both curses and they get removed automatically, so how does it work exactly?
Btw, these forums are fairly quiet, I personally prefer the Neverwinter Reddit, you'll get answers to questions like these much quicker.
It would be really surprising if mechanic only bound to few WC removing skills...