Devs and Players Have Destroyed the Queue System

daddyroush · March 2017

By making the dungeons difficulty so high, players have started putting together groups and then entering dungeons (i.e., Fangbreaker Island, Svordborg). These two actions alone have rendered the queue system useless. Thanks a bunch, developers. Other players now have no choice but to sit in queues for hours on end hoping to get in, all the while spamming the chat system begging for invites to a group. What will be the next way in which you can continue to further destroy what was a great game just 12-18 months ago?

I look forward to hearing the ploys of the developers... Anddddd go!!!

moogie101 · March 2017

I don't agree.

We've argued for awhile now for Higher Tier & harder content & we've got it in FBI & MSVA, but that comes at a cost. You need certain characters all performing their individual tasks something you generally don't get from a random group.

If you're in an Alliance then accessing this content shouldn't be that difficult as more & more people are unlocking the requirements to play these dungeons. If not you're either stuck in SOMI trying to jump into other people's queues but I wouldn't bother queuing up randomly as you'll be there all day & still likely not get a game.

I'm not arguing this system is perfect BUT Castle Never nowadays & EpicDemo have become a joke so if the price for tougher content is a harder to access queuing system so be it.

omegarealities · March 2017

Or, you could just get together with a group of friends and enter the dungeons. As for me, I much rather run a dungeon with people that I know, then a bunch of randoms, any of whom may get mad, leave the group and leave the group short.

daddyroush · March 2017

moogie101#4741 said:
I don't agree.

We've argued for awhile now for Higher Tier & harder content & we've got it in FBI & MSVA, but that comes at a cost. You need certain characters all performing their individual tasks something you generally don't get from a random group.

If you're in an Alliance then accessing this content shouldn't be that difficult as more & more people are unlocking the requirements to play these dungeons. If not you're either stuck in SOMI trying to jump into other people's queues but I wouldn't bother queuing up randomly as you'll be there all day & still likely not get a game.

I'm not arguing this system is perfect BUT Castle Never nowadays & EpicDemo have become a joke so if the price for tougher content is a harder to access queuing system so be it.

I understand the tougher content, and this I kinda went overboard on more so than players. As for being a part of a Guild and/or Alliance, well, I am in a level 20 Guild that is part of one of the largest Alliances on console, and they themselves are no better than the populous with their better-than-thou attitudes, and you're NOT quite good enough to run with us attitude.

I may or may not be part of a minute group, but I got more from this game when I had to repetitively run a dungeon over and over due to being queued up with a bad or inexperienced set of players, than in it's current state of let's sits in a queue for 5 hours while I spam the chat log begging for an invite , and discuss it in a forum online. Mind you, the latter part of that statement is taking place as I type this.

daddyroush · March 2017

omegarealities#7219 said:
Or, you could just get together with a group of friends and enter the dungeons. As for me, I much rather run a dungeon with people that I know, then a bunch of randoms, any of whom may get mad, leave the group and leave the group short.

You my friend have just emphasized my exact point for the post to begin with. No One is using the Queue System any longer because they are putting their teams together and then going straight into said dungeon. Don't get me wrong. A great idea and concept it is, yes. However, was it thought out, no! If it was, and this problem was foreseen and they implemented it anyway, then they could care less about the players. I'm all for teamwork and playing with friends, but what am I supposed to do when none of them or not enough are available; sit back and hope and pray that I can find 4 others all wanting to do the same thing that I need to do?

thegravelnome · March 2017

I know I have started using my alliance to run dungeons instead of pug running. Is this part of the problem? Quite possibly. In pug runs I see some of the worst behavior Gamers have offer. It makes me want to have nothing to do with the general public at all. If the good people refuse to q, that only leaves the bad. and for once I don't have any ideas how to fix it.

daddyroush · March 2017

thegravelnome#9466 said:
I know I have started using my alliance to run dungeons instead of pug running. Is this part of the problem? Quite possibly. In pug runs I see some of the worst behavior Gamers have offer. It makes me want to have nothing to do with the general public at all. If the good people refuse to q, that only leaves the bad. and for once I don't have any ideas how to fix it.

At this point, if I bad players in the queue were the issue, then that would be one thing. Anymore, no one uses the queue. It is shortly after 6 PM EST, I have been spamming chat and sitting in an SVA queue since 10 this morning. Picky people in chat, and no one at all in the queues. What's the point in having a queue? If you're going to make it as simple as meeting the minimal requirements to run or host a Dragonflight run in a Stronghold, then you don't need a queue. How to fix it, you ask? Here is a suggestion for the debs.... Put a 3 person group limit so that everyone is not sitting around for hours on end just trying to run ONE dungeon. I enjoy the game, but I can and will find other things to occupy my time. If I want to sit and look at a chat window all day then I can sit at my computer, laptop, tablet, or work for that matter.

pixelkatt · March 2017

I tend to agree with OP.. I'm a 3400ish DC and I've not run nSVA or FBI yet and I would like to pug it first in order to learn mechanics. Also, I'm not ACDC, but DODC.. which isn't that popular right now.. I'm not confident enough to respond to a chat request yet, as I'm not really that sure I'll be that helpful. So what does someone do who doesn't want to make it more difficult for an experienced group to get through, but stays in the queue forever and can't get in? Also, I do have a guild but the majority of them aren't doing this campaign yet and are still running other content.

..first post btw.. normally I lurk but this has been bugging me, lol..

daddyroush · March 2017

pixelkatt#7829 said:
I tend to agree with OP.. I'm a 3400ish DC and I've not run nSVA or FBI yet and I would like to pug it first in order to learn mechanics. Also, I'm not ACDC, but DODC.. which isn't that popular right now.. I'm not confident enough to respond to a chat request yet, as I'm not really that sure I'll be that helpful. So what does someone do who doesn't want to make it more difficult for an experienced group to get through, but stays in the queue forever and can't get in? Also, I do have a guild but the majority of them aren't doing this campaign yet and are still running other content.

..first post btw.. normally I lurk but this has been bugging me, lol..

Well, spoiler alert my friend.... In order to upgrade your new Artifact Equipment, you need an entirely new set of marks (Not Potentcy, Stability, Union). The new ones are only obtained by running the new dungeons and are bound to account so you can't even buy them off the AH. Does this shed some light on the struggle and pain now? I have spent 8 hours now trying to get 2 runs in. I just spoke with a guy that has spent 7 days trying to get 4 runs in. Like yourself, I'm a 3400ish GWF, but these people don't want to run with anyone unless they are 4k. I mean, really, 4K? Item Level Score maxes at just over 4200. So, you're telling me that you don't want to play with anyone unless they are close to maxed out? You just want to walk in and out? What's the point in playing the game?

I last saw this same thing when Alliances and Strongholds was introduced. No one wanted to play or join together unless they were all the same as them. So if you have a level 20 Stronghold full of members with max ILS, in a Alliance with all the same, then what are you going to do for the next 3-4 months until the next mod comes out, whine and complain because there is no new content?

armadeonx · March 2017

To be fair, higher geared players have always grouped together for runs where possible and avoided pugs. If they queued as a partial group via pug, they'd kick anyone who joined them that had low gear or was not the 'ideal' class.

The only difference the new private queue system brings is the ability to lock out randoms from loading into their team if someone leaves/disconnects. In mod 5 when I had low level characters I'd find myself kicked out of about 40% of dungeons & skirmishes (shores) before the group had even started the run & were at the campfire.

These days, the introduction of Alliances has made private queuing more popular as players can just advertise in Alliance Chat for group members due to having a pool 13 times larger than their guild.

If you find your alliance allows IL bias is chat then the alliance is not a great one. In our alliance nobody is allowed to state an IL requirement when advertising a run in AC.

fehlany · March 2017

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I like that alliance rule of no IL discrimination... Need to get mine to adopt that. Won't get me around the class bias, but it'd be a start. I save my most cynical laughter for when I see "need high DPS for rDemo, 3.5k+" or 4k for nSVA.

evilsquirrel03 · March 2017

daddyroush said:

pixelkatt#7829 said:
I tend to agree with OP.. I'm a 3400ish DC and I've not run nSVA or FBI yet and I would like to pug it first in order to learn mechanics. Also, I'm not ACDC, but DODC.. which isn't that popular right now.. I'm not confident enough to respond to a chat request yet, as I'm not really that sure I'll be that helpful. So what does someone do who doesn't want to make it more difficult for an experienced group to get through, but stays in the queue forever and can't get in? Also, I do have a guild but the majority of them aren't doing this campaign yet and are still running other content.

..first post btw.. normally I lurk but this has been bugging me, lol..
Well, spoiler alert my friend.... In order to upgrade your new Artifact Equipment, you need an entirely new set of marks (Not Potentcy, Stability, Union). The new ones are only obtained by running the new dungeons and are bound to account so you can't even buy them off the AH. Does this shed some light on the struggle and pain now? I have spent 8 hours now trying to get 2 runs in. I just spoke with a guy that has spent 7 days trying to get 4 runs in. Like yourself, I'm a 3400ish GWF, but these people don't want to run with anyone unless they are 4k. I mean, really, 4K? Item Level Score maxes at just over 4200. So, you're telling me that you don't want to play with anyone unless they are close to maxed out? You just want to walk in and out? What's the point in playing the game?

I last saw this same thing when Alliances and Strongholds was introduced. No one wanted to play or join together unless they were all the same as them. So if you have a level 20 Stronghold full of members with max ILS, in a Alliance with all the same, then what are you going to do for the next 3-4 months until the next mod comes out, whine and complain because there is no new content?

Unfortunately there are two issues that are working against queuing for content as a random these days. First, I don't believe that Item Level is a reliable metric for the capability for players to run content. Until they incorporate the companions loadout and mount insignias into this value you're missing large gaps in things that actually empower your character. IL also appears to be set too low in terms of allowing characters to queue for content. If you've ever tried running Epic Cragmire Crypts with a group of IL 2000 level characters, you'll know the pain i'm talking about. The reason that people are requiring 3.8 to 4k + players to run this content is that as you move closer to the maximum equipment ranges, the greater the likelihood that your gear and your companion's gear is at a state that you can take what the harder content dishes out.

The second issue is role functionality when tackling content. We're all aware that we're supposed to fill different roles to conquer the challenges in this game.

Control Wizard. Controller / Striker. ...
Devoted Cleric. Leader / Controller. ...
Great Weapon Fighter. Striker / Defender. ...
Guardian Fighter. Defender / Controller. ...
Hunter Ranger. Striker / Controller. ...
Oath-bound Paladin. Defender / Leader. ...
Scourge Warlock. Striker / Leader. ...
Trickster Rogue. Striker / Controller.

Yet when you look at the the requirements to attempt to tackle this content there are three roles primarily: Tank/Buff-Debuff/DPS. Because of the state of the game our role selections are being reduced to analog functions of DPS and Other; and the only way that we see our feedback is with a flawed leaderboard. In a game where Clerics are starting to do more damage than they heal and Guardian Fighters are capable of out damaging the Great Weapon Fighter people are becoming more and more hesitant rely on random elements in their group. They have instead turned to running the content with people that they know and who they can rely on to fill the role in the way they expect them to. This is almost a necessity for end game content like FBI or MSVA.

daddyroush · March 2017

I have to agree with fehlany and squirrel, and add that in my own opinion, with the lengthy amount of time that it takes to complete the campaign tree of Storm King's Thunder, along with the increased difficulty of both FBI and MSVA, I feel that they should have raised the Level Cap to 80 and staggered the campaign accordingly.

thegravelnome · March 2017

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the raising the level cap. the nightmare that was introduced after going from 60 to 70 I would not care to repeat by having all of my gear made obsolete again. Especially after taking the time to refine all these artifacts again

daddyroush · March 2017

thegravelnome#9466 said:
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the raising the level cap. the nightmare that was introduced after going from 60 to 70 I would not care to repeat by having all of my gear made obsolete again. Especially after taking the time to refine all these artifacts again

With the introduction of Storm King's Thunder, all of our old Gear is practically obsolete.

sundance777 · March 2017

We set up two group of 4 just last night and both used the public Q on several runs for elol, etos, and cn. The Q's pop fairly quickly if we have the tank/DC in the group already as we pick up those random dps characters to run with. We even had one run were the tank had to leave and poof, in comes a new tank...seems pretty useful to me. Personally I would probably not solo Q on my dps character but I do all the time on the support characters and get in just fine to the T2 and below stuff.

There are several factors to take into account besides the mechanics, people are trying to make progress on the new content, there is an event going on, was just x2RP etc...all things that lower the number of people that are trying to get into the older content...not to mention guild and alliance runs and other changes that have some of us running different skirms and dungeons than we were a few weeks ago. So yes you probably have had some long wait times recently but I don't think that is the fault of the mechanics, its just the nature of some of the players right now.

sh00termcl0vin · March 2017

The Devs didn't destroy anything for FBI or MSVA queues. No one is queueing publicly because they don't want to spend 3 hours with a pug team in FBI and MSVA so bad players in the group can be carried to get good loot.

The difficulty is fine, I would just like to see some of the latency issues resolved with both places.

daddyroush · March 2017

sundance777 said:
We set up two group of 4 just last night and both used the public Q on several runs for elol, etos, and cn. The Q's pop fairly quickly if we have the tank/DC in the group already as we pick up those random dps characters to run with. We even had one run were the tank had to leave and poof, in comes a new tank...seems pretty useful to me. Personally I would probably not solo Q on my dps character but I do all the time on the support characters and get in just fine to the T2 and below stuff.

There are several factors to take into account besides the mechanics, people are trying to make progress on the new content, there is an event going on, was just x2RP etc...all things that lower the number of people that are trying to get into the older content...not to mention guild and alliance runs and other changes that have some of us running different skirms and dungeons than we were a few weeks ago. So yes you probably have had some long wait times recently but I don't think that is the fault of the mechanics, its just the nature of some of the players right now.

I do agree with your statements, however, I should have made the rant clearer from the beginning. The rant really is directed at FBI and MSVA. As you said, I can always get a cue for anything else rather quickly, but where FBI, SVA, and MSVA are concerned, not happening. I have sat in queues for the latter three for 3-15 hours and not got a queue to come up.

daddyroush · March 2017

sh00termcl0vin said:
The Devs didn't destroy anything for FBI or MSVA queues. No one is queueing publicly because they don't want to spend 3 hours with a pug team in FBI and MSVA so bad players in the group can be carried to get good loot.

The difficulty is fine, I would just like to see some of the latency issues resolved with both places.

Explain the difference between struggling for 3 hours with a PUG Team and sitting in a queue for the same 3 hours if not a whole lot more, not even getting a chance to struggle through anything even once. I'd rather be frustrated with multiple attempts over a 3 hour timeframe than sitting and waiting for a queue to pop or spamming the chat for 3 hours trying to get a group to let you run with them.

armadeonx · March 2017

The point he's making is that he doesn't have to do either of those things.

Yes of course struggling in an attempt to complete FBI is better than never getting in at all, but he's saying that going in with a group of people that you know is a surer way of completing it effectively because it's harder.

The thing with CN, ETOS etc is if you have just one or two well geared players in your group, they can carry a pug, but in FBI you need at least four of the team to know what they are doing, be well geared and preferably using voice chat comms.

As such, those that can avoid pugging will do so. I know that doesn't solve your issue at all but it's the reality. As such the only effective recourse you have to getting into these dungeons is to be in a decent guild/alliance that advertise for players internally.

shadowfenix88 · March 2017

A simple fix would be adding an AD based on how many are in your public queue as it gets picked up to join a dungeon. The bonus for opening the legendary chest at the end would be as follows: A group of 5 would get no bonus, a group of 4, 1 bonus rank, 3 get 2, 2 would get 3 and 1 would get 4 bonus ranks. Make each rank worth 500-1000 AD and suddenly people would start joining random groups. Granted groups of 5 on voice would all try queing at the same time to try and get max bonus so you can set a max daily bonus to stop farming.

wileecoyoteym · March 2017

Why can't we just queue alone. I don't feel like sitting in a VT queue for 1-2 hours to solo the darn thing anyways.

mordekai · March 2017

Are the newest queues any harder than a single 2.6k dps queuing for EDemo?

Its always going to be the case that content for the highest level characters will have a smaller pool of players.
You can't have material that only a few people can complete, and expect there to be lots of people queuing up to do it.

There is no instant fix to this.
It can only improve by more people reaching a point where they are capable of doing it.

That's why people with powerful characters would do better if they didn't act like arrogant pricks when pugging with a team of lower power characters on the more standard runs.

I ran a bunch of ETOS pugs with my 2.5k GF yesterday to test a few build ideas aimed at moving from solo DPS Mini tank to group support buff and serious tanking.
I explained to each group at the start, and most were fine. One guy, a 3.6 GWF offered advice, and deliberately let me go first into encounters to pull aggro before he cut loose and snared it all.
I learned more in that 20 minutes about tanking than I did the entire rest of the day.

Sadly he was the only post 3.5k player who showed the slightest interest in group play, with others ranging from charging off on their own to jumping up and down like a toddler having a tantrum if anyone needed to pause between encounters to charge up.

sundance777 · March 2017

Out of curiosity, I have tried to public Q a couple times for SVA, basically it was a way to use up some potions from my inventory. I suspect there are still many that are tying to progress on Xbox to being able to go here with the IL and the campaign and the frost resist requirements. I know in my guild there are only about 4 of us that can even go here and we are not always online at the same time. Maybe with a few more weeks it will improve but for now it seems the only way to get in is the private Q, which also saves on potions.

Oh and I don't think I would pug FBI unless they raised the IL req to enter to at least 3.5K. No way are we getting through there with 5 x 3.1K

thefiresidecat · March 2017

This game has a lot of problems. they need to scrap this game and do neverwinter 2.o imo. lol

thegravelnome · March 2017

Hay shadowfenix88, welcome to the forums! I look forward to hearing your options on things!

missdayum · March 2017

daddyroush said:
By making the dungeons difficulty so high, players have started putting together groups and then entering dungeons (i.e., Fangbreaker Island, Svordborg). These two actions alone have rendered the queue system useless. Thanks a bunch, developers. Other players now have no choice but to sit in queues for hours on end hoping to get in, all the while spamming the chat system begging for invites to a group. What will be the next way in which you can continue to further destroy what was a great game just 12-18 months ago?

I look forward to hearing the ploys of the developers... Anddddd go!!!

I agree, sounds about right!

sundance777 · March 2017

I wonder if the Q would work better if the potions (that some of us still need to use to hit the 28%) were on a combat timer instead of just a 30 minute timers similar to overload enchants - or make a overload slot enchants that give frost resist the same as the guild food 2% and the potion 10%.

I personally don't use the public Q because of the potion timer and I do not have a giant stash of VB yet to spend on the potions, but I would use the public Q more if it was not wasting my potions.

Eventually I might have the extra 12% FR that I am missing, others might too and that will help, I hope...

omegarealities · March 2017

I am trying to figure out what exactly the OP wants. Do they want the devs to prohibit groups and force people to play with randoms? People wanted more challenging content, that is what Devs made. Now we have people whining, the content is too hard and no one will play with them.

People are too concerned with instant gratification. RPGs are not suppose to be about that. You start with basic weapons equipment and weapons, you level up, get better weapons and equipment and get to explore new areas.

I prefer NOT to go into somethings with randoms. I like to get a group of friends together and play the more difficult content. That way we don't we have worry about some idiot running ahead and making the area more difficult than it needs to be.

daddyroush · March 2017

mordekai#1901 said:
Are the newest queues any harder than a single 2.6k dps queuing for EDemo?

Its always going to be the case that content for the highest level characters will have a smaller pool of players.
You can't have material that only a few people can complete, and expect there to be lots of people queuing up to do it.

There is no instant fix to this.
It can only improve by more people reaching a point where they are capable of doing it.

That's why people with powerful characters would do better if they didn't act like arrogant pricks when pugging with a team of lower power characters on the more standard runs.

I ran a bunch of ETOS pugs with my 2.5k GF yesterday to test a few build ideas aimed at moving from solo DPS Mini tank to group support buff and serious tanking.
I explained to each group at the start, and most were fine. One guy, a 3.6 GWF offered advice, and deliberately let me go first into encounters to pull aggro before he cut loose and snared it all.
I learned more in that 20 minutes about tanking than I did the entire rest of the day.

Sadly he was the only post 3.5k player who showed the slightest interest in group play, with others ranging from charging off on their own to jumping up and down like a toddler having a tantrum if anyone needed to pause between encounters to charge up.

I agree with this style of play, but sadly enough more and more people tend to forget that each character has different roles and this is a team play game. The sad truth is that we get adjusted to running so much content alone that we forget how to run as a group when that time comes.

daddyroush · March 2017

sundance777 said:
Out of curiosity, I have tried to public Q a couple times for SVA, basically it was a way to use up some potions from my inventory. I suspect there are still many that are tying to progress on Xbox to being able to go here with the IL and the campaign and the frost resist requirements. I know in my guild there are only about 4 of us that can even go here and we are not always online at the same time. Maybe with a few more weeks it will improve but for now it seems the only way to get in is the private Q, which also saves on potions.

Oh and I don't think I would pug FBI unless they raised the IL req to enter to at least 3.5K. No way are we getting through there with 5 x 3.1K

I would have to disagree with you. About half of my successful runs through FBI have been with PUGs and just recently we smashed through with a speed that was faster than going in with a premed group.

Devs and Players Have Destroyed the Queue System

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