Anointed army-less fbi run.

jaime4312 · January 2017

Hey there,

You pc guys are the best in this game so I was thinking of something, some of you have posted fbi speed runs on youtube, correct? From what I remember, even though party compositions change a bit depending on guilds and such, they all seem to have in common that the group has 1 or 2 AC DC anointed army spamming build. What if you guys post a video running fbi and you try to complete it as fast as possible without using anointed army at all? It would be interesting if that's done so it's possible to compare the time each group takes.

@thefabricant @rinat114 @fernuu @kolatmaster @michela123 @xsayajinx1 @rjc9000 @kemi1984 @diogene0 @kallephi#0836 @tom#6998 @icyphish I know there are many other great players out there (don't know all names and it would take alot to wirte them all, etc) but you guys get my point I think. It really would be great if you guys do that, I know all of you are able to do it, I would love to see how each great manages without anointed army, what tactics are used and how long it takes to complete the dungeon.

Edit: Corrected usernames and added a few ones as I got told about them and/or remembered about them. I know a few of the mentioned players are pvp mostly but they definitely can do pve no problem.

I've ran fbi without dc of either path and it has been both fun and frustrating (2 tanks and 3 dps). Note that I'm not asking whether is possible to complete fbi without AA or not (it is), I know it is possible but I just want to see how the better players would manage and how long they'd take to complete the dungeon.

fizgigtiznalkie · January 2017

Not speed runs, but I've seen groups on PS4 2 tank, no cleric it, and also 2 tank, 2 cleric, 1 dps it. I'm not sure the tactics are much different, stay out of the red, use the boss mechanics as intended.

dupeks · January 2017

In a party that knows what it's doing, a Righteous DO DC can be awesomesauce. AA power stacking is FotM, but not necessary in a balanced party.

I've run FBI on my MoF CW with a team of Prot-OP, Tact GF, Right-DO DC, and a GWF and gotten done in <30 min. No bugging (most are not needed or only slow you down, anyway). And that's likely not an optimal team.

If your DPS is BiS, you only need 1 and the rest can be support flavors. That also usually results in more debuff pets/enchants (a solid source of uncapped effectiveness). Rainbow teams can be faster in my opinion (less overlap in team buffs).

I'd welcome a video too, but I know it can be done. Also, AA will eventually be fixed (hopefully soon, I'm bored as hell on my DC nowadays -- I was ACDC before the brokenness, will likely remain after).

rjc9000 · January 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:
[makes a list of notable players]... I would love to see how each great manages without anointed army, what tactics are used and how long it takes to complete the dungeon.

(ahahaha me included in the list of greats! great joke, btw.)

A person you might want to consider is @diogene0 who is a huge supporter of the DO path. He's been... missing... as of late, so I don't know when you'd get a response from him. I think you also missed a few "x"s from @xsayajinx1 (aka Haxolute). Another player who comes to mind (and has been pestering me for FBI lately) is Natsu, who you can contact at @tom#6998.

As Dupeks mentioned, you'd ideally want to run the "4 support 1 BiS DPS player", as buff/debuff stacking is stupidly good.

For composition, GF and a non AA using DC are mandatory for this idea.

Your choice of DPS player is up to you. I would mention a certain DPS player that comes to mind, but I'd probably have a bunch of other angry DPS players claiming "why u no consider me da best?"

For your other two supporters, I would consider a Paladin of sorts. Aura of Wisdom/Courage are super good and Aura Gift's power boost is useful, especially since we don't have AA. A Tankadin is useful for their bubble (you can ignore some mechanics), but a DevOP is useful for their special Bane (put on DPS player), so consider this when forming your team.

MoF CWs are great for their debuffing capabilities, as per usual. I would reccomend using only 1 CW (the MoF) so the CW has an easier time stacking Smolder + Rimfire.

HRs and SWs should be considered for their Longstrider's Shot (and Thorn Ward) and Pillar of Power abilities respectively.

TRs got Wicked Reminder and Sly Flourish. Tbh... I can't really see a TR being needed for a speedrun (no offense TR mains, you guys might have other debuffs I'm missing), unless they are your DPS player of choice.

Make sure that your debuffs are on point: once you know you've hit the DR/multiplier debuff cap, don't bother stacking any more DR Debuffs (imo Prophecy of Doom would be rather useless, as it takes too long to cast and is part). Afterwards, you will want to be stacking Defense debuffs (Sellsword, Con Artist, Dancing Shield). My personal choice would be 1 Dancing Shield with 4 Sellswords/Con Artists, with some Pure/Trans Frost enchants tossed in for good measure.

Your time will always be bogged down in the mechanics. That is, when the Manticore flies away and does his avalanche, when you have to defend Ewan for several minutes, when you need to hit the dragon turtle with a ~~noobtube~~ mine, when you need to search for the Ring in the part before Drufti, and Drufti's wind attack.

Some mechanics (searching for the ring, for example) are luck based, which can lengthen/shorten your time based off your luck. There have been instances where teams I've run with have sped through some of those mechanics via good application of deeps, such as when I ran with WickedDuck's GWF and he delivered some great IBSes which cut through the turtle's HP bar with ease (allowing us to skip more parts where we need to noobtube the turtle). I'm not sure of the exact method or timing to doing this, so this will be done through trial and error.

Anyways, just as a final note, but a non AA team would never have "the" fastest time for clearing FBI due to AA being too good. Being able to ignore certain mechanics (ie, less time spent dodging and more time burning down the loot pinatas), as well as the huge boost to your power are just TOO good to pass up.

jaime4312 · January 2017

fizgigtiznalkie#4436 said:
Not speed runs, but I've seen groups on PS4 2 tank, no cleric it, and also 2 tank, 2 cleric, 1 dps it. I'm not sure the tactics are much different, stay out of the red, use the boss mechanics as intended.

I see what you mean, I usually run with 2 friends (op and gwf) + randies and our most common set up is gf, op and 3 dps. That laggy turtle fight though...

jaime4312 · January 2017

dupeks said:
In a party that knows what it's doing, a Righteous DO DC can be awesomesauce. AA power stacking is FotM, but not necessary in a balanced party.

I've run FBI on my MoF CW with a team of Prot-OP, Tact GF, Right-DO DC, and a GWF and gotten done in <30 min. No bugging (most are not needed or only slow you down, anyway). And that's likely not an optimal team.

If your DPS is BiS, you only need 1 and the rest can be support flavors. That also usually results in more debuff pets/enchants (a solid source of uncapped effectiveness). Rainbow teams can be faster in my opinion (less overlap in team buffs).

I'd welcome a video too, but I know it can be done. Also, AA will eventually be fixed (hopefully soon, I'm bored as hell on my DC nowadays -- I was ACDC before the brokenness, will likely remain after).</p>

It can be done and I've done it myself (gf, op and 3 dps) but I feel very curious how the best players would manage without anointed-prebubble nerf - buff on steroids-army. Not sure how is on pc but at least at around 8 - 9 pm central (when try running fbi with friends + 2 randies) is a lag fest on console, the turtle fight is a joke, say, we're with mics on and see the turtle doing nothing then any of us gets 1 shotted out of nowhere, it happens all the time and it's ridiculous but at the same time rewarding when we kill that thing. I'm yet to have a fight against that turtle in which the game runs somewhat smooth, asking people from my contact list or friends of my friends I get the same answer (most people I talk and run with are Americans so it's not like their internet is bad), imagine like you are, emm, a cw and you see the turtle sat there doing nothing at all then you somehow get 1 shotted without having any chance to react, that fight consumes lots of portable altars lol.

ichimaruginx · January 2017

It's possible to do FBI with righteous-DO DC, conq-GF and 3 dpsers (no OP). I've been running FBIs that way until recently where I respecced to ensure smoother random mSVAs and will likely respecced the back to DO after I get that Jarl's helm (purely cosmetic reasons). Just can't seem to enjoy being a AC in spite of it all.

But as for time frame and vids, I'm afraid that I never kept track and usually does it to help new people go through the FBI on their first times - so not as pretty as it would have been with a bunch of exped and extremely skilled players. One thing though - 1st boss you will be healing like mad if positionings are less than stellar but hey it's fun! But as long as you follow the tactics - it's very doable.

jaime4312 · January 2017

rjc9000 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
[makes a list of notable players]... I would love to see how each great manages without anointed army, what tactics are used and how long it takes to complete the dungeon.
(ahahaha me included in the list of greats! great joke, btw.)

A person you might want to consider is @diogene0 who is a huge supporter of the DO path. He's been... missing... as of late, so I don't know when you'd get a response from him. I think you also missed a few "x"s from @xsayajinx1 (aka Haxolute). Another player who comes to mind (and has been pestering me for FBI lately) is Natsu, who you can contact at @tom#6998.

As Dupeks mentioned, you'd ideally want to run the "4 support 1 BiS DPS player", as buff/debuff stacking is stupidly good.

For composition, GF and a non AA using DC are mandatory for this idea.

Your choice of DPS player is up to you. I would mention a certain DPS player that comes to mind, but I'd probably have a bunch of other angry DPS players claiming "why u no consider me da best?"

For your other two supporters, I would consider a Paladin of sorts. Aura of Wisdom/Courage are super good and Aura Gift's power boost is useful, especially since we don't have AA. A Tankadin is useful for their bubble (you can ignore some mechanics), but a DevOP is useful for their special Bane (put on DPS player), so consider this when forming your team.

MoF CWs are great for their debuffing capabilities, as per usual. I would reccomend using only 1 CW (the MoF) so the CW has an easier time stacking Smolder + Rimfire.

HRs and SWs should be considered for their Longstrider's Shot (and Thorn Ward) and Pillar of Power abilities respectively.

TRs got Wicked Reminder and Sly Flourish. Tbh... I can't really see a TR being needed for a speedrun (no offense TR mains, you guys might have other debuffs I'm missing), unless they are your DPS player of choice.

Make sure that your debuffs are on point: once you know you've hit the DR/multiplier debuff cap, don't bother stacking any more DR Debuffs (imo Prophecy of Doom would be rather useless, as it takes too long to cast and is part). Afterwards, you will want to be stacking Defense debuffs (Sellsword, Con Artist, Dancing Shield). My personal choice would be 1 Dancing Shield with 4 Sellswords/Con Artists, with some Pure/Trans Frost enchants tossed in for good measure.

Your time will always be bogged down in the mechanics. That is, when the Manticore flies away and does his avalanche, when you have to defend Ewan for several minutes, when you need to hit the dragon turtle with a ~~noobtube~~ mine, when you need to search for the Ring in the part before Drufti, and Drufti's wind attack.

Some mechanics (searching for the ring, for example) are luck based, which can lengthen/shorten your time based off your luck. There have been instances where teams I've run with have sped through some of those mechanics via good application of deeps, such as when I ran with WickedDuck's GWF and he delivered some great IBSes which cut through the turtle's HP bar with ease (allowing us to skip more parts where we need to noobtube the turtle). I'm not sure of the exact method or timing to doing this, so this will be done through trial and error.

Anyways, just as a final note, but a non AA team would never have "the" fastest time for clearing FBI due to AA being too good. Being able to ignore certain mechanics (ie, less time spent dodging and more time burning down the loot pinatas), as well as the huge boost to your power are just TOO good to pass up.

Well, I have noticed you know a lot about game mechanics and such so it put you up there with them xD You also are the author of a very good swordmaster gf guide so I think it's necessary to mention you.

Thanks for the help with the usernames of the other guys, I see I was using sayajin's youtube username instead and I think the system suggested me like 5 diogenes so I had no idea which was the real one. I think haxolute would do great in fbi (his buffs + his massive dps) and correct me if I am wrong but diogene respecced to AC DC, not sure if the anointed army spamming build but I'm like 99.99% sure last time I saw a post and video from him he was an anointed champion. Thanks for reminding me of natsu, it helped me to think of another player who's a very good hb sw.

My friends and I team up at night to run fbi and we usually have to run without dc, I have to say the ridiculously laggy turtle fight is really painful, I understand me having lag issues but my American buddies and the 2 randies too? Every single member of the team? There's something wrong right there. There are times in which you and your team mates see no animations from the turtle whatsoever and you just drop dead, it's weird really. We can be talking then all of the sudden one of us just gets downed, we ask each other what just happened and no one knows as we don't really see any read ares or the boss attacking us, I wish you could somehow run with us so you could see what I mean.

When I run on my gf I slot fray, knight's valour and commander's strike, my paladin prot friend runs aura of courage and wisdom and the gwf one runs Lia's rotation I think. I'm planning on getting a con artist for my gf, my sw already has one, when I get on the latter to try fbi I usually help team mates with pillar of power and dreadteft some times dreadteft. Our party compositions vary as the 2 randies can be from any class, we won't deny gwfs and tr's the chance to run if there's nothing to choose from although the turtle fight gets annoying as it's already complicated due to how lag makes it harder.

Having a team with these companions is highly unlikely on console, people usually run the fire archon and they refuse to listen when one tries to tell them the benefits of con artist and the others aka "muh personal dps will drop and my ego will take a heavy blow if I use other companion to boost the group dps". For the very same reason, it's really hard to find Mof CW's, people usually care about their personal dps only so they go SS thaum.

As you've mentioned tricksters, do you know if courage breaker has any debuff effect on bosses? If I could pick up dps warlocks and wizards definitely would be taken, hunter rangers and have some crazy high dps as well.

I have to say that, at least as a gf, the manticore fight feels epic lol.

As for your last sentence, the point of my post is to see what can be the fastest run without anointed army and what strategies would be used in absence of that hilariously overpowered and broken daily, I do know that it helps very much and that you need it if you want to finish the dungeon in the shortest amount of time possible so I really want to see how very good players like you guys would do without it and how long you'd take to complete fbi.

jaime4312 · January 2017

ichimaruginx said:
It's possible to do FBI with righteous-DO DC, conq-GF and 3 dpsers (no OP). I've been running FBIs that way until recently where I respecced to ensure smoother random mSVAs and will likely respecced the back to DO after I get that Jarl's helm (purely cosmetic reasons). Just can't seem to enjoy being a AC in spite of it all.

But as for time frame and vids, I'm afraid that I never kept track and usually does it to help new people go through the FBI on their first times - so not as pretty as it would have been with a bunch of exped and extremely skilled players. One thing though - 1st boss you will be healing like mad if positionings are less than stellar but hey it's fun! But as long as you follow the tactics - it's very doable.

Running that dungeon without AA can be challenging and fun, I'm getting used to DCless runs as we usually don't get one when trying to get the 2 last members of the time who are almost always randoms. The anointed army spamming build really needs some love from Mr. Almighty Nerf Bat, it is super broken and overpowered and trivializes content like no other power or skill can, that needs to end and it needs to be tonned down to reasonable levels. I've noticed that some players have got so much used to that build they will give up on pug dungeons run immediately if there's no AA spam even on etos or elol for Christ's sake.

The manticore fight is very fun without AA, if you get distracted or if there's a lag spike you become dead meat rather fast lol.

tom · January 2017

Well sounds like fun to try but
@rjc9000 we should first do our 2gf 3dc speedruns. The runs we did there were far to funny

@jaime4312#3760
in am pretty sure we can finish under 20 mins with gf/op/dodc/hr/gwf or smth like that

rinat114 · January 2017

We do plenty of speedruns without a single DC, we have some great healadins in the Crusaders and in the absence of a DC they do the job just fine! @jeffslider doesn't rely on AA either, not to mention it's currently broken beyond measure thus making all content ridiculously trivial. Will be much more interesting when it gets nerfed and terrible players can't just snap their fingers and bypass all endgame content that easily by just having an AA spamming DC in the party.

ichimaruginx · January 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

ichimaruginx said:
It's possible to do FBI with righteous-DO DC, conq-GF and 3 dpsers (no OP). I've been running FBIs that way until recently where I respecced to ensure smoother random mSVAs and will likely respecced the back to DO after I get that Jarl's helm (purely cosmetic reasons). Just can't seem to enjoy being a AC in spite of it all.

But as for time frame and vids, I'm afraid that I never kept track and usually does it to help new people go through the FBI on their first times - so not as pretty as it would have been with a bunch of exped and extremely skilled players. One thing though - 1st boss you will be healing like mad if positionings are less than stellar but hey it's fun! But as long as you follow the tactics - it's very doable.
Running that dungeon without AA can be challenging and fun, I'm getting used to DCless runs as we usually don't get one when trying to get the 2 last members of the time who are almost always randoms. The anointed army spamming build really needs some love from Mr. Almighty Nerf Bat, it is super broken and overpowered and trivializes content like no other power or skill can, that needs to end and it needs to be tonned down to reasonable levels. I've noticed that some players have got so much used to that build they will give up on pug dungeons run immediately if there's no AA spam even on etos or elol for Christ's sake.

The manticore fight is very fun without AA, if you get distracted or if there's a lag spike you become dead meat rather fast lol.

I'd love to run a DCless run just for fun lol! I agree, alots of players don't bother dodging red and DCs get less attentive of the team's HP because they do not need to heal much (everyone's immune). While this might mean they have more time to buff, some are too busy amassing ap the next Daily to try to stack that 2+ empowerment for BtS hehe. Although naturally, skilled players will always utilize the immunity frame for best dps/buffs etc output. But wow, needing AA for etos and elol is just too funny because they are boring even without AA

And yes that manticore keeps you on your toes - it' my favourite boss fight ever since the Epic Dread Vault was removed. When lagging though *shudders* It's even more exciting to do it with HP set back when bonus isn't removed. 1 tick and your HP is gone... next tick without heals -> bye bye team

rinat114 said:
We do plenty of speedruns without a single DC, we have some great healadins in the Crusaders and in the absence of a DC they do the job just fine! @jeffslider doesn't rely on AA either, not to mention it's currently broken beyond measure thus making all content ridiculously trivial. Will be much more interesting when it gets nerfed and terrible players can't just snap their fingers and bypass all endgame content that easily by just having an AA spamming DC in the party.

Looking forward to it and when people pay attention to the mechanisms of the dungeon!

rjc9000 · January 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

rjc9000 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
[makes a list of notable players]... I would love to see how each great manages without anointed army, what tactics are used and how long it takes to complete the dungeon.
(ahahaha me included in the list of greats! great joke, btw.)

A person you might want to consider is @diogene0 who is a huge supporter of the DO path. He's been... missing... as of late, so I don't know when you'd get a response from him. I think you also missed a few "x"s from @xsayajinx1 (aka Haxolute). Another player who comes to mind (and has been pestering me for FBI lately) is Natsu, who you can contact at @tom#6998.

As Dupeks mentioned, you'd ideally want to run the "4 support 1 BiS DPS player", as buff/debuff stacking is stupidly good.

For composition, GF and a non AA using DC are mandatory for this idea.

Your choice of DPS player is up to you. I would mention a certain DPS player that comes to mind, but I'd probably have a bunch of other angry DPS players claiming "why u no consider me da best?"

For your other two supporters, I would consider a Paladin of sorts. Aura of Wisdom/Courage are super good and Aura Gift's power boost is useful, especially since we don't have AA. A Tankadin is useful for their bubble (you can ignore some mechanics), but a DevOP is useful for their special Bane (put on DPS player), so consider this when forming your team.

MoF CWs are great for their debuffing capabilities, as per usual. I would reccomend using only 1 CW (the MoF) so the CW has an easier time stacking Smolder + Rimfire.

HRs and SWs should be considered for their Longstrider's Shot (and Thorn Ward) and Pillar of Power abilities respectively.

TRs got Wicked Reminder and Sly Flourish. Tbh... I can't really see a TR being needed for a speedrun (no offense TR mains, you guys might have other debuffs I'm missing), unless they are your DPS player of choice.

Make sure that your debuffs are on point: once you know you've hit the DR/multiplier debuff cap, don't bother stacking any more DR Debuffs (imo Prophecy of Doom would be rather useless, as it takes too long to cast and is part). Afterwards, you will want to be stacking Defense debuffs (Sellsword, Con Artist, Dancing Shield). My personal choice would be 1 Dancing Shield with 4 Sellswords/Con Artists, with some Pure/Trans Frost enchants tossed in for good measure.

Your time will always be bogged down in the mechanics. That is, when the Manticore flies away and does his avalanche, when you have to defend Ewan for several minutes, when you need to hit the dragon turtle with a ~~noobtube~~ mine, when you need to search for the Ring in the part before Drufti, and Drufti's wind attack.

Some mechanics (searching for the ring, for example) are luck based, which can lengthen/shorten your time based off your luck. There have been instances where teams I've run with have sped through some of those mechanics via good application of deeps, such as when I ran with WickedDuck's GWF and he delivered some great IBSes which cut through the turtle's HP bar with ease (allowing us to skip more parts where we need to noobtube the turtle). I'm not sure of the exact method or timing to doing this, so this will be done through trial and error.

Anyways, just as a final note, but a non AA team would never have "the" fastest time for clearing FBI due to AA being too good. Being able to ignore certain mechanics (ie, less time spent dodging and more time burning down the loot pinatas), as well as the huge boost to your power are just TOO good to pass up.
Well, I have noticed you know a lot about game mechanics and such so it put you up there with them xD You also are the author of a very good swordmaster gf guide so I think it's necessary to mention you.

Thanks for the help with the usernames of the other guys, I see I was using sayajin's youtube username instead and I think the system suggested me like 5 diogenes so I had no idea which was the real one. I think haxolute would do great in fbi (his buffs + his massive dps) and correct me if I am wrong but diogene respecced to AC DC, not sure if the anointed army spamming build but I'm like 99.99% sure last time I saw a post and video from him he was an anointed champion. Thanks for reminding me of natsu, it helped me to think of another player who's a very good hb sw.

My friends and I team up at night to run fbi and we usually have to run without dc, I have to say the ridiculously laggy turtle fight is really painful, I understand me having lag issues but my American buddies and the 2 randies too? Every single member of the team? There's something wrong right there. There are times in which you and your team mates see no animations from the turtle whatsoever and you just drop dead, it's weird really. We can be talking then all of the sudden one of us just gets downed, we ask each other what just happened and no one knows as we don't really see any read ares or the boss attacking us, I wish you could somehow run with us so you could see what I mean.

When I run on my gf I slot fray, knight's valour and commander's strike, my paladin prot friend runs aura of courage and wisdom and the gwf one runs Lia's rotation I think. I'm planning on getting a con artist for my gf, my sw already has one, when I get on the latter to try fbi I usually help team mates with pillar of power and dreadteft some times dreadteft. Our party compositions vary as the 2 randies can be from any class, we won't deny gwfs and tr's the chance to run if there's nothing to choose from although the turtle fight gets annoying as it's already complicated due to how lag makes it harder.

Having a team with these companions is highly unlikely on console, people usually run the fire archon and they refuse to listen when one tries to tell them the benefits of con artist and the others aka "muh personal dps will drop and my ego will take a heavy blow if I use other companion to boost the group dps". For the very same reason, it's really hard to find Mof CW's, people usually care about their personal dps only so they go SS thaum.

As you've mentioned tricksters, do you know if courage breaker has any debuff effect on bosses? If I could pick up dps warlocks and wizards definitely would be taken, hunter rangers and have some crazy high dps as well.

I have to say that, at least as a gf, the manticore fight feels epic lol.

As for your last sentence, the point of my post is to see what can be the fastest run without anointed army and what strategies would be used in absence of that hilariously overpowered and broken daily, I do know that it helps very much and that you need it if you want to finish the dungeon in the shortest amount of time possible so I really want to see how very good players like you guys would do without it and how long you'd take to complete fbi.

Yes, Dio last specc'd into AC, but I know that he was a huge DO fan until he swapped to AC to stay competitive.

Courage Breaker does work on bosses, at least the damage debuff part. I personally didn't mention it for use on bosses because your tank(s) should be strong enough to take the hits and for a speedrun, you should be burning down the boss as fast as you can (and a dead boss can't damage you, right?).

You can reach the DR debuff cap without a MoF.

GF Tab + Crushing Pin + OP Bane (on enemies) + HR Thorn Ward + TR Wicked Reminder puts you at the DR debuff cap, for example. You can mix and match classes and their debuffs as you see fit.

For your issues with the Turtle: yes, there are times when the game lags out and the turtle's animations versus attacks are out of sync. Get a feel for the turtle's attacks and how he likes to attack.

I hear you on the Con Artist argument. It took me a while to convince my old man that the Sellsword/ Con Artist was an overall better option than a Fire Archon. If you can, try and run with a few friends who do understand the power of the MoF debuffs/Con Artist/Sellsword. Run a few FBIs, go for a quick speedrun, and maybe you can get people thinking about using the debuff comps.

(Btw, you're probably going to want a premade team for a speedrun).

Also, for your GF, I would personally take the Dancing Shield for its amazing debuff (unless the Con Artist's ring slots are important for your build).

I would also swap powers out for the occasion. For example, on the mobs, you might find it easiest to use ITF/KV/ET for massive AoE marking and protection. Whereas on the turtle, you might want to try ITF/CS/KV since you don't need ET to aggro.

bvira · January 2017

I did some runs as DO DC when FBI first came out, just need a good tank and people who don't play like complete idiots,

Unknown · January 2017

This content has been removed.

niubaracs · January 2017

I have a 4k healadin (one of the few in this game, healadin is underrated due to aa bug), lots of time i run fbi without dc; the fastestone was 21 minutes with gf, mof, 1hdps, 1notsohigh dps, so yes, we can do it better

hugienwn · January 2017

Worth mentioning that HR dodges can help a lot in this dungeon (on the hill with giant/bear swipes & from Drufi sword-swipes, mostly); I've only run FBI a couple of times without an AA DC, but the HR in our party definitely made those runs much easier!

kallephi · January 2017

Well, it would be nice to run without any kind of cleric at all. I'm up to do it if @tom#6998 agrees, but not on my GF, she would die like Kenny hahaha. I'd b up to run. I believe a: 1 full buff op, 1 tactician gf, 1 mof renegade cw, 1 gwf and me, would be nice.
I'd do that, just for the challenge ^^

jaime4312 · January 2017

tom#6998 said:
Well sounds like fun to try but

@rjc9000 we should first do our 2gf 3dc speedruns. The runs we did there were far to funny

@jaime4312#3760

in am pretty sure we can finish under 20 mins with gf/op/dodc/hr/gwf or smth like that

Under 20 mins without anointed army? That would be impressive for sure, I would love to see a video about that and even sub 25 - 35min AA-less runs would impress me quite a bit. Lol, not related but you made me remember they day I ran an elol with my gf and 4 warlocks when the perma-puppet build and superfray were a thing yet, that was hilarious, we were like a small army, 5 players and 4 soul puppets killing everything, I took like 3 screenshots (now lost I supposse) and just couldn't stop laughing for a while, it was such a long time ago but one of the best experiences I've had for sure.

rinat114 said:
We do plenty of speedruns without a single DC, we have some great healadins in the Crusaders and in the absence of a DC they do the job just fine! @jeffslider doesn't rely on AA either, not to mention it's currently broken beyond measure thus making all content ridiculously trivial. Will be much more interesting when it gets nerfed and terrible players can't just snap their fingers and bypass all endgame content that easily by just having an AA spamming DC in the party.

Great to see your answer, Lia! Any chance you could do a video about an AA-less fbi run? I mean, I do believe you and I've no doubt you can beat that dungeon without the unwanted son of pre-bubble nerf and superfray, I just feel very curious to see how guy guys take on fangbreaker without that daily power that's broken so much it's beyond a joke. At least on console, dps guys are very likely to decline a group invite if they don't see a AC DC that will carry them with AA, it's ridiculous. There's this guy from a top guild I can't mention (I'm looking at you name and shame rules...) who bailed on my group when we got to the turtle, he clearly was upset and incredibly baffled that he could actually take damage and even die, that's ridiculous...

I can't wait to see AA nerfed to see how dps guys will react, I bet it will be priceless to see them in fbi and future content as well.

jaime4312 · January 2017

ichimaruginx said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

ichimaruginx said:
It's possible to do FBI with righteous-DO DC, conq-GF and 3 dpsers (no OP). I've been running FBIs that way until recently where I respecced to ensure smoother random mSVAs and will likely respecced the back to DO after I get that Jarl's helm (purely cosmetic reasons). Just can't seem to enjoy being a AC in spite of it all.

But as for time frame and vids, I'm afraid that I never kept track and usually does it to help new people go through the FBI on their first times - so not as pretty as it would have been with a bunch of exped and extremely skilled players. One thing though - 1st boss you will be healing like mad if positionings are less than stellar but hey it's fun! But as long as you follow the tactics - it's very doable.
Running that dungeon without AA can be challenging and fun, I'm getting used to DCless runs as we usually don't get one when trying to get the 2 last members of the time who are almost always randoms. The anointed army spamming build really needs some love from Mr. Almighty Nerf Bat, it is super broken and overpowered and trivializes content like no other power or skill can, that needs to end and it needs to be tonned down to reasonable levels. I've noticed that some players have got so much used to that build they will give up on pug dungeons run immediately if there's no AA spam even on etos or elol for Christ's sake.

The manticore fight is very fun without AA, if you get distracted or if there's a lag spike you become dead meat rather fast lol.
I'd love to run a DCless run just for fun lol! I agree, alots of players don't bother dodging red and DCs get less attentive of the team's HP because they do not need to heal much (everyone's immune). While this might mean they have more time to buff, some are too busy amassing ap the next Daily to try to stack that 2+ empowerment for BtS hehe. Although naturally, skilled players will always utilize the immunity frame for best dps/buffs etc output. But wow, needing AA for etos and elol is just too funny because they are boring even without AA

And yes that manticore keeps you on your toes - it' my favourite boss fight ever since the Epic Dread Vault was removed. When lagging though *shudders* It's even more exciting to do it with HP set back when bonus isn't removed. 1 tick and your HP is gone... next tick without heals -> bye bye team
rinat114 said:
We do plenty of speedruns without a single DC, we have some great healadins in the Crusaders and in the absence of a DC they do the job just fine! @jeffslider doesn't rely on AA either, not to mention it's currently broken beyond measure thus making all content ridiculously trivial. Will be much more interesting when it gets nerfed and terrible players can't just snap their fingers and bypass all endgame content that easily by just having an AA spamming DC in the party.
Looking forward to it and when people pay attention to the mechanisms of the dungeon!

Yeah, dependency on AA is getting out of control, it proves how desperately that daily needs the nerf hammer to hit it with all its might and more. I aree on the manticore, it is quite an interesting fight and you need to be concentrated otherwise you're toasted.

jaime4312 · January 2017

rjc9000 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

rjc9000 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
[makes a list of notable players]... I would love to see how each great manages without anointed army, what tactics are used and how long it takes to complete the dungeon.
(ahahaha me included in the list of greats! great joke, btw.)

A person you might want to consider is @diogene0 who is a huge supporter of the DO path. He's been... missing... as of late, so I don't know when you'd get a response from him. I think you also missed a few "x"s from @xsayajinx1 (aka Haxolute). Another player who comes to mind (and has been pestering me for FBI lately) is Natsu, who you can contact at @tom#6998.

As Dupeks mentioned, you'd ideally want to run the "4 support 1 BiS DPS player", as buff/debuff stacking is stupidly good.

For composition, GF and a non AA using DC are mandatory for this idea.

Your choice of DPS player is up to you. I would mention a certain DPS player that comes to mind, but I'd probably have a bunch of other angry DPS players claiming "why u no consider me da best?"

For your other two supporters, I would consider a Paladin of sorts. Aura of Wisdom/Courage are super good and Aura Gift's power boost is useful, especially since we don't have AA. A Tankadin is useful for their bubble (you can ignore some mechanics), but a DevOP is useful for their special Bane (put on DPS player), so consider this when forming your team.

MoF CWs are great for their debuffing capabilities, as per usual. I would reccomend using only 1 CW (the MoF) so the CW has an easier time stacking Smolder + Rimfire.

HRs and SWs should be considered for their Longstrider's Shot (and Thorn Ward) and Pillar of Power abilities respectively.

TRs got Wicked Reminder and Sly Flourish. Tbh... I can't really see a TR being needed for a speedrun (no offense TR mains, you guys might have other debuffs I'm missing), unless they are your DPS player of choice.

Make sure that your debuffs are on point: once you know you've hit the DR/multiplier debuff cap, don't bother stacking any more DR Debuffs (imo Prophecy of Doom would be rather useless, as it takes too long to cast and is part). Afterwards, you will want to be stacking Defense debuffs (Sellsword, Con Artist, Dancing Shield). My personal choice would be 1 Dancing Shield with 4 Sellswords/Con Artists, with some Pure/Trans Frost enchants tossed in for good measure.

Your time will always be bogged down in the mechanics. That is, when the Manticore flies away and does his avalanche, when you have to defend Ewan for several minutes, when you need to hit the dragon turtle with a ~~noobtube~~ mine, when you need to search for the Ring in the part before Drufti, and Drufti's wind attack.

Some mechanics (searching for the ring, for example) are luck based, which can lengthen/shorten your time based off your luck. There have been instances where teams I've run with have sped through some of those mechanics via good application of deeps, such as when I ran with WickedDuck's GWF and he delivered some great IBSes which cut through the turtle's HP bar with ease (allowing us to skip more parts where we need to noobtube the turtle). I'm not sure of the exact method or timing to doing this, so this will be done through trial and error.

Anyways, just as a final note, but a non AA team would never have "the" fastest time for clearing FBI due to AA being too good. Being able to ignore certain mechanics (ie, less time spent dodging and more time burning down the loot pinatas), as well as the huge boost to your power are just TOO good to pass up.
Well, I have noticed you know a lot about game mechanics and such so it put you up there with them xD You also are the author of a very good swordmaster gf guide so I think it's necessary to mention you.

Thanks for the help with the usernames of the other guys, I see I was using sayajin's youtube username instead and I think the system suggested me like 5 diogenes so I had no idea which was the real one. I think haxolute would do great in fbi (his buffs + his massive dps) and correct me if I am wrong but diogene respecced to AC DC, not sure if the anointed army spamming build but I'm like 99.99% sure last time I saw a post and video from him he was an anointed champion. Thanks for reminding me of natsu, it helped me to think of another player who's a very good hb sw.

My friends and I team up at night to run fbi and we usually have to run without dc, I have to say the ridiculously laggy turtle fight is really painful, I understand me having lag issues but my American buddies and the 2 randies too? Every single member of the team? There's something wrong right there. There are times in which you and your team mates see no animations from the turtle whatsoever and you just drop dead, it's weird really. We can be talking then all of the sudden one of us just gets downed, we ask each other what just happened and no one knows as we don't really see any read ares or the boss attacking us, I wish you could somehow run with us so you could see what I mean.

When I run on my gf I slot fray, knight's valour and commander's strike, my paladin prot friend runs aura of courage and wisdom and the gwf one runs Lia's rotation I think. I'm planning on getting a con artist for my gf, my sw already has one, when I get on the latter to try fbi I usually help team mates with pillar of power and dreadteft some times dreadteft. Our party compositions vary as the 2 randies can be from any class, we won't deny gwfs and tr's the chance to run if there's nothing to choose from although the turtle fight gets annoying as it's already complicated due to how lag makes it harder.

Having a team with these companions is highly unlikely on console, people usually run the fire archon and they refuse to listen when one tries to tell them the benefits of con artist and the others aka "muh personal dps will drop and my ego will take a heavy blow if I use other companion to boost the group dps". For the very same reason, it's really hard to find Mof CW's, people usually care about their personal dps only so they go SS thaum.

As you've mentioned tricksters, do you know if courage breaker has any debuff effect on bosses? If I could pick up dps warlocks and wizards definitely would be taken, hunter rangers and have some crazy high dps as well.

I have to say that, at least as a gf, the manticore fight feels epic lol.

As for your last sentence, the point of my post is to see what can be the fastest run without anointed army and what strategies would be used in absence of that hilariously overpowered and broken daily, I do know that it helps very much and that you need it if you want to finish the dungeon in the shortest amount of time possible so I really want to see how very good players like you guys would do without it and how long you'd take to complete fbi.
Yes, Dio last specc'd into AC, but I know that he was a huge DO fan until he swapped to AC to stay competitive.

Courage Breaker does work on bosses, at least the damage debuff part. I personally didn't mention it for use on bosses because your tank(s) should be strong enough to take the hits and for a speedrun, you should be burning down the boss as fast as you can (and a dead boss can't damage you, right?).

You can reach the DR debuff cap without a MoF.

GF Tab + Crushing Pin + OP Bane (on enemies) + HR Thorn Ward + TR Wicked Reminder puts you at the DR debuff cap, for example. You can mix and match classes and their debuffs as you see fit.

For your issues with the Turtle: yes, there are times when the game lags out and the turtle's animations versus attacks are out of sync. Get a feel for the turtle's attacks and how he likes to attack.

I hear you on the Con Artist argument. It took me a while to convince my old man that the Sellsword/ Con Artist was an overall better option than a Fire Archon. If you can, try and run with a few friends who do understand the power of the MoF debuffs/Con Artist/Sellsword. Run a few FBIs, go for a quick speedrun, and maybe you can get people thinking about using the debuff comps.

(Btw, you're probably going to want a premade team for a speedrun).

Also, for your GF, I would personally take the Dancing Shield for its amazing debuff (unless the Con Artist's ring slots are important for your build).

I would also swap powers out for the occasion. For example, on the mobs, you might find it easiest to use ITF/KV/ET for massive AoE marking and protection. Whereas on the turtle, you might want to try ITF/CS/KV since you don't need ET to aggro.

.

jaime4312 · January 2017

@rjc9000

Edit: It wasn't possible to post my answer on previous reply so had to do it here.

Oh I see, that's why the switched to AC then.

Well, because of how incredibly laggy the turtle fight is, I wouldn't mind if the tr uses CB haha. Thanks for the tips, I will keep those powers in mind next time I run, randoms usually refure to adjust their rotation to help the team though. Also, keep in mid we console players don't have ATC nor other testing tools or the great gear you guys have so the overall group perfomance and skill in epic content for all il and stat levels (top, average and low) is lower than that of you pc guys so if turtle fights gets very laggy chances are we'll get killed before enough damage is dealt, this is from an anointed army-less perspective.

I think I've memorised all of the turtle attacks, the problem is that, as I said, you (and team mates, at least my friends, we always talk about wth happened when one of us dies) see the turtle doing absolutely nothing, nada, and your toon just drops dead.

Oh, I wish people would listen to the con artist/sellsword/dancing shield argument, they don't and won't because it goes against their "mememe matters only so screw the team" mentality.

I always avoid pugging fbi (I've never done that) but groups tend to vary a lot, I always have to resort to run with 2 randies and they can become the reason we succeed or fail the run.

I'm still trying to think what to do with my gf, I certainly want to increase his dps and to get his base arp at 60% so I can use the power boon (doing daylies with him is a nightmare even with rank 12 bondings) but I want to still be able to tank and buff my team mates. I would like to make a dps IV build in a way I can tank decently, do daylies at a decent pace and can pvp once a milenium without being useless to my team. I certainly am interested in the dancing shield, however I need to think if it can fit the build I want to have, that and that on console we don't have loyal avenger gear so alternatives are either hilariously expensive or subpar (even both lol), that's why, for example you see more con artists than you see sellswords (con artists are uncommon I would say).

I always use your 2nd suggest rotation on fbi, as I run with an op we split aggro so I don't run ET unless I really need to (knight's valour is always on though).

jaime4312 · January 2017

bvira said:
I did some runs as DO DC when FBI first came out, just need a good tank and people who don't play like complete idiots,

I guess you mean the guys who stand on red circles, get one shotted then either rage quit or try to kick the support classes out.

jaime4312 · January 2017

xsayajinx1 said:
Thanks for the mention but as you already know by my YT channel, I do mainly PvP and my resources for a real PvE build are currently rather poor.

I think you would do very well and due to your great dps bosses and all enemies would die rather fast so they wouldn't have enough time to wipe the team. You are welcome for the mention and hat off to you, you really know what you are doing and not only that, you fight in a fair way as well, keep it up! Hey, any chance you can make a video of a training session with Icy? I mean your gf vs his gwf, now that would be an interesting fight, I hope you'll give it a try!

jaime4312 · January 2017

niubaracs said:
I have a 4k healadin (one of the few in this game, healadin is underrated due to aa bug), lots of time i run fbi without dc; the fastestone was 21 minutes with gf, mof, 1hdps, 1notsohigh dps, so yes, we can do it better

That's a very fast run for an AA-less one, good job! Congrats on sticking to your character despite of that abonimable AA, once it gets nerfed people may ask for healadins more for epic content stuff.

hugienwn said:
Worth mentioning that HR dodges can help a lot in this dungeon (on the hill with giant/bear swipes & from Drufi sword-swipes, mostly); I've only run FBI a couple of times without an AA DC, but the HR in our party definitely made those runs much easier!

Yeah those dodges help a lot indeed!

kallephi#0836 said:
Well, it would be nice to run without any kind of cleric at all. I'm up to do it if @tom#6998 agrees, but not on my GF, she would die like Kenny hahaha. I'd b up to run. I believe a: 1 full buff op, 1 tactician gf, 1 mof renegade cw, 1 gwf and me, would be nice.
I'd do that, just for the challenge ^^

It will be very interesting to see if you give it a try! It's been a while since I last saw your sw haha.

jaime4312 · January 2017

Thanks to everyone for the answers, it's a bit tough to keep up with the answers but it's worth it, you guys have provided very interesting replies, looking forward to seeing your videos if possible!

kallephi · January 2017

jaime4312#3760 said:

niubaracs said:
I have a 4k healadin (one of the few in this game, healadin is underrated due to aa bug), lots of time i run fbi without dc; the fastestone was 21 minutes with gf, mof, 1hdps, 1notsohigh dps, so yes, we can do it better
That's a very fast run for an AA-less one, good job! Congrats on sticking to your character despite of that abonimable AA, once it gets nerfed people may ask for healadins more for epic content stuff.
hugienwn said:
Worth mentioning that HR dodges can help a lot in this dungeon (on the hill with giant/bear swipes & from Drufi sword-swipes, mostly); I've only run FBI a couple of times without an AA DC, but the HR in our party definitely made those runs much easier!
Yeah those dodges help a lot indeed!
kallephi#0836 said:
Well, it would be nice to run without any kind of cleric at all. I'm up to do it if @tom#6998 agrees, but not on my GF, she would die like Kenny hahaha. I'd b up to run. I believe a: 1 full buff op, 1 tactician gf, 1 mof renegade cw, 1 gwf and me, would be nice.
I'd do that, just for the challenge ^^
It will be very interesting to see if you give it a try! It's been a while since I last saw your sw haha.

Yes because I'm playing on my GF hehehe. I'm tired of SW, I'm playing today on my SW to use all my 22 greater demonic keys for a chance of a brutality +5, then I'm back to GF

spideymt · January 2017

tom#6998 said:

in am pretty sure we can finish under 20 mins with gf/op/dodc/hr/gwf or smth like that

I hope you will join this group with your SW. You did the FBI speed runs with your SW before they fixed so many things, so make it again with your SW please and show that this speed was all about skill and knowledge. No offense, but rjc9000 was clear on that. He said Natsu ( i think this is the name from your SW, isnt it?). So take this chance my friend and show how great a good SW can be!!!!

Maybe you guys can make it live on twitch? I would love to watch this. I think this would really great and i know a lot of ppl in this game. So i can make some kinda advertisment for this stream.
If you gonna stream that, plz gimme a "call"

ingame:
@spideymt

kemi1984 · January 2017

Let's be honest here. The moment AA get's fixed the game will be totally different.

I hope it will be done asap!

Frankly I don't see any difference between actual state of AA & Divine Protector which lead to total party immunity via OP.
Just as I said it back then, it makes us feel much more "durable" than we really are.

This has to stop, ASAP.

Thank you

ferdi · January 2017

I play Devoted Oracle and when I jump in random public games people hear your a healer without AA the crying starts. Most people that dont play cleric dont even know there is a path without AA.

jaime4312 · February 2017

kemi1984 said:
Let's be honest here. The moment AA get's fixed the game will be totally different.

I hope it will be done asap!

Frankly I don't see any difference between actual state of AA & Divine Protector which lead to total party immunity via OP.
Just as I said it back then, it makes us feel much more "durable" than we really are.

This has to stop, ASAP.

Thank you

Hello @kemi1984 ,

Why don't you see any difference between AA and DP in mod 10.5? Perhaps you have said that based on pre-nerf DP (mod 10 and before)? Since mod 10.5, DP no longer offers total damage immunity and is, instead, a KV + daunting challenge-like daily power (absorbs 60% of incoming damage for protected allies)so now people can actually die through the bubble, I know that myself as my sw got 1 shotted in a fbi run when we were at the giants' Call of Duty-like phase, I think I was out of stamina and if I remember correctly my toon got instakilled by the boulder attack.

Another difference is that AA increases dps whereas DP does not so there you have it, DP and superfray got tonned down to non gamebreaking levels and now it is AA's turn to get some love with a few or rather, a lot of changes. Anyway, I do agree with you in that total damage immunity is something that in no way, shape or form should be allowed to continue to be used and abused, it needs to end for good and asap.

Another offender that comes to my mind is steel defense, while it does last a little it still allows to ignore damage and certain mechanics so it for sure should get a rework.

The tankiest character in the game is the AA spamer dc build, nice logic cryptic! While they are at it they could make the tr the best buffer and the conqueror guardian fighter the best healer class, right? Right?

ferdi#0617 said:
I play Devoted Oracle and when I jump in random public games people hear your a healer without AA the crying starts. Most people that dont play cleric dont even know there is a path without AA.

Yeah and SOMI zone and looking for group channels are full of "need AA dc for (insert any contet here)!!). I even saw a guy asking for 3 AA spamers for msva... wow...

Anointed army-less fbi run.

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