test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Orcus set
caveck
Member Posts: 38 Arc User
So I finally got my hands on the orcus artifact, and I'm kind of disappointed (or maybe I was expecting more). I haven't noticed that tremendous of a damage increase compare to the lostmauth set, and a lost quite a bit of dex/recovery to make up for the loss of armor pen. Anyone have any tips on maximizing dps with the set? I read to try to get my hp as low as possible when the boss is above 50%, and to keep it at 100% when below with life steal. My life steal atm is at 15%, ik optimal is 20. But keeping myself at 100 isn't my issue. Keeping my health low is. I don't see how I can do that without purposely stepping in red which generally 1 shots me anyways. Advice?
0
Comments
Note: this is for PVE, I don't know HAMSTER about PVP.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
What do you mean by upgrade it all the way? By making the artifact mythic, and the neck/belt legendary? I have all 3 at epic, but I don't plan on upgrading them past that for a while. The set bonus is what I'm interested in, and the base stats are mediocre. I'll be focusing on making my bonding stones r12, and other artifacts mythic before making any of my orcus pieces past epic. Mainly because the of the little interest I have in the base stats and how ridiculous it is to get a neck/belt to legendary. But whether the rank of them are different or not, the set bonus should be the same
@gavstrx When you upgrade several things, it may or may not be the set and depends if you had the lostmauth set first in the first place. I upgraded some things this weekend too and do way more damage yet my item level never changed and I wear the lostmauth. My upgrades this weekend have nothing to do with either set, maybe you can explain a bit more.
Should I ever actually get this shard, and then the belt...I might try them out but I am saving my lostmauth set.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
The reason you are getting inconsistent returns from having switched to Orcus from Lostmauth is not an issue with your new set. There is no special way or improved way or build to maximize Orcus that would give you double or tripple the results. The variable you are missing is Lostmauth--
Explaining...
* Orcus gives you a conditional damage buff relative to yours and the target's HP.
* Lostmauth is a fixed weapon-based damage per critical hit.
Put simply the question is not How effectively are you using Orcus now?, but How effectively were you using Lostmauth before?
Let's take Jimbo's results here. He states that his switching to Orcus has made a noticeable difference. Whereas @caveck, @blur and @seth came to a similar opinion otherwise. It comes off to me that you three were using Lostmauth more efficiently than Jimbo that you don't see that great of an increase with Orcus.
So we need proof of concept to make it more than just theory.
If Jimbo were to start a rotation with his power-stacking Whirlwind, and I, with Lurkers. He's going for maximum (buffed) damage output of his encounters, Smoke Bomb, Dazing, then perform a Duelist Flurry, and finally Shadow of Demise. Now he has incredible clearing capacity provided that his targets are closer together, and he can wipe them all out with a single rotation.
If I went with Lurkers, given I have more targets, say 10+ in CN, and they were more spread apart to clear with Jim's rotation, I will go for 12x Blade Flurry, all stealthed, x10 enemies, and then my Duelist Flurry.
We have practically achieved the same clearing goals, but I proc my Lostmauth a lot more. Our difference in rotation just gave me higher the benefits of Lostmauth than it did him, so considering we both switch to Orcus at that point he will get "noticeable increase" but me, not at all.
That's just a tiny sample of all that contributes to TR's dps.
My honest suggestion is that all the numbercrunchers here consider to stop playing your TR like a GWF. We talk about how to maximize stats, percentages, go into equations and whatnots-- it's just too much math. There is more that goes on in actual combat than numbers. Your maximum buffed power of, idk say 200k, is not an absolute picture of your final DPS because you cannot keep it at a 100% uptime.
Focus less in numbers, and leave some margin for these things;
* enemy mob composition, how many trash, how spread apart
* party composition
* enemy hp, how fast your party clears before you even trigger Shadow of Demise
* enemy CC, how often, what kind
* how much threat is on you, can you finish your rotation without interruption or risk of dying (more so now with the ITC bug)
* cast times, windups, cooldowns, buffed uptimes
* very important -> distance. do you spend 5 seconds running from target to target, and 3 seconds dealing damage. in that time, somebody else will have killed them before you could
There's so much more, and I probably overdone this post a little. So there ya go, crazy walls of text. Hope it helps.
Nothing wrong with chasing paingiver
My damage in FBI/eSVA is far from CN damage lvl, not sure why, probably i cant always make the bleeds crit since i dont pay attention to that, its a small number to track, barely visible for me, also i dont know other classes so i dont interract with their buffs to maximise damage so i have replaced lashing blade with wicked reminder and lurkers with courage breaker for the FBI climb part and it works great, its amazing how much easier and faster it goes. On bosses i go back to lurkers but still keep wicked reminder because its simply great.
As to your other points, I might be guilty of getting to wrapped up in the numbers, but, to my knowledge, no one has really worked out exactly how the buff worked with Whirlwind, and there was a lot of misinterpretation on how power buffs worked in general. Anyway, you are correct in saying it's a little simplistic to focus on the numbers with, say, a rotation for mobs and a rotation for bosses.
All those things you mention are important, too. The biggest being party composition and the particular area or dungeon you are running, because most of the points you make are dependent on those two things. The problem is that I don't run with the same party all the time. To be specific, you'd have to test different party configurations in every dungeon. That takes a ton of time, not to mention friends willing to run multiple times with you. However, some general information isn't a bad thing at all. I'll definately look at expanding my build's rotation section with some information on more scenarios TRs find themselves in. Good advice, thanks!
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
I think insight on how you play it will help us a lot -- the things beyond what powers to rotate I mean. Such as, do you rush first before the GWF/tank? When Dazing/Lashing is off cooldown, do you wait for your stealth to refill? If your WW fills up in the middle of a mob fight, do you use it to finish them off, or do you save it for the next pack so you get the full benefit of its buff duration? Just general things like these.
On Orcus versus Lostmauth, Orcus is totally awesome with bosses. Lostmauth might benefit with the higher weapon damage from the new set. Considering we go with a lot of crit by standard, and DF hitting so many times, it should amount for some of the difference. I'm holding out until I can test this with a pair of legendary shadewalker daggers, then I'm going to re-evaluate
I'd still be surprised if the Lostmauth set out performed the Orcus set. If someone wants to send me a Lostmauth set in preview, I'll test them out once I get the new weapons to legendary. However, with needing 30 superior marks to upgrade them from purple, and the fact that I only have 5 at the moment, it may be a little bit before I'm there.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Those things like number of targets WW is better than lurkers or AP gain, etc.. can help exactly in those situations.
It's always a balance of a feeling, practical experience, and figuring out how stuff works (with numbers for example).
Good mix of those, IMO, is the healthy way to optimize.
Now take into consideration the amount of mobs with smoke bomb. More mobs = more crits = more elol proc. The only problem is elol will do poorly against bosses because they're usually single targets.
This is where orcus set will come in nicely because you will typically have a longer margin of time to have a difference in hp versus high health bosses so you will notice a significant dps boost. But versus trash mobs who die quickly, you might not get enough time to notice a hp difference to do a significant boost to dps.
So, my final take is: You can either go elol for trash mobs or you can go orcus for boss.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Lostmauth damage is very easy to figure at 5 tics to kill per monster, so 1000*5*5= 25,000.
Orcus is more complicated.
First tick would be no extra damage so the monsters are now down 20% at 80,000 hp.
.2*.2*20,000 = 800 extra damage for the second tic.
So each monster takes 20,800.
That means that for the third tic each monster is down 40,800 or 40.8%
.408 * .2 * 20,000 = 1632 extra damage for the third tick.
So each monster takes 21,632 damage, so 40,800 + 21,632 = 62,432 damage taken after the third tick or 62.4% down.
.2 * .624 * 20,000 = 2496 extra damage for the 4th tick.
So each monster takes 22,496 damage, so 62,432 + 22,496 = 84,928 or down 84.9%
.849 * .2 * 20,000 = 3,396 extra damage for tic 5
So each monster takes 23,396 damage killing it.
(3396 * 5) + (2496 * 5) + (1632 * 5) + (800 * 5) = 16,980 + 12,480 + 8160 + 4,000= 41,620
Orcus damage is 41,620. Lostmauth damage is 25,000.
Even if you don't count the last killing hit, Orcus still does 24,640 to Lostmauth's 20,000.
That may be an oversimplification, and please correct me if my math is just incorrect, or if I am figuring the Orcus bonus incorrectly, but I can't see how Lostmauth out performs Orcus in almost any situation.
And, granted the stats are better for Lostmauth. But, still.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
20,000 * 1+0.2(100K-100K/100K) = 20,000
20,000 * 1+0.2(100K-80K/100K) = 20,800
20,000 * 1+0.2(100K-59.2K/100K) = 21,632
20,000 * 1+0.2(100K-37.6K/100K) = 22,496
20,000 * 1+0.2(100K-15.1K/100K) = 23,396
NET 8324*5 = 41,620
The only thing I'd probably change is the damage dealt by Lostmauth is higher than the sample.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bloodbath deals 10351 (9858) Physical Damage to Cutter.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lostmauth's Vengeance deals 1830 (1743) Physical Damage to Cutter.
[Combat (Self)] Your Rousing Warmth deals 3000 Fire Damage to Cutter.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Bloodbath deals 10209 (9723) Physical Damage to Sentry.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lostmauth's Vengeance deals 1830 (1743) Physical Damage to Sentry.
[Combat (Self)] Your Aspect of Flames deals 630 (600) Fire Damage to Sentry.
Therefore the comparison might be 1830*5*5 = 45,750
But! Just to point out something totally HAMSTER, Smoke Bomb ticks do not proc Lostmauth... making the whole point of this comparison NULL. x(
http://imgur.com/a/FC5PX
http://imgur.com/a/yVjam
So, even accounting for optomized builds for the stats of the two sets, at end game with a TR that is well geared, I think Orcus would out perform LM hands down. It's probably not as big of a difference for every build (point well taken), but Orcus should still out perform LM, in any case and in any scenario where the set bonus would make a difference at all.
Um, if I haven't screwed up the math and assuming Orcus doesn't behave totally wonky. It's harder to test because the stats are so different, and Orcus doesn't show up on ACT. @micky1p00, am I totally off my rocker, or just half off?
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Let's say shadewalkers is 20% better than current weapons, Lostmauth will do 300-400 more damage per crit. But the moment you buffed your damage high enough, say, 500K Lashings... there's literally no way eLol can compare. The only power I can really think that eLol shines in this scenario is Duelist Flurry because it hits 12x for smaller damage, and until we can do 30K hits on the very last part of Flurry (not the bleeds) that remains the only power eLol is most effective.
But, if we assume 2000 damage from Lostmauth, the damage threshold to where Orcus starts out performing LM would be 20,000. That's because 10% damage (2000) is what you hit when the monster is down 50% which is exactly half the monster's hp. So doing 20,000 damage, half the HPs LM is doing better, and half, Orcus is doing better. I'd probably up it to 25,000-30,000 to account for the fact that many of our feats kick in when monsters are at lower HPs and so we'll get less hits in at below 50%, and to account for the difference in stats.
Most of my hits are over 50,000 at end game, so Orcus is the set for me, but that may not be the case for everyone. If we assume a 50,000 hit, Orcus passes up LM in damage when the monster hits 80% life.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Some Classes like CW/HR/ SW can start dps'ing in an greater range then we or an GWF can, so most the time adds are on lower hp when we start our rotations.
Couldn't it be that we can now deal more damage with Orcus set and some feats like Deathknell (for example)? (If the adds didn't die in an few seconds^^^)
Just an thougt i have (i should really install ACT for myself to test things out).
Well, with all of the feats that do bonus damage as they go down, we'll actually get fewer hits in before they die. They'll be stronger, but fewer. You may be right, and that may play nicely with your scenario with us trying to keep up with damage on mobs running with classes that are faster than us.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog