test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
See this link, this about sums it up. Throws hands in the air.
silverkelt
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
Article is not written by me, so please do not remove this part.. Mod edited out rule violation. Edit this again and the thread will be removed.
NEVERWINTER GRIND IS SLOWLY GETTING OUT OF HAND WITH MODULE 10.5
On release day of Patch/Module 10.5 I’d like to look at one of my big concerns of the next major content update, Sea of Moving Ice. I was very disappointed to see that you still need to do SKT dailies and content to progress and get the boons. The list of daily tasks players have to do is already long and continues to blow up that way. Here’s what you could do on a PVE toon prior to Sea of Moving Ice given that you completed all older campaigns and unlocked their boons:
Stronghold Influence Run
Sharandar Campaign grind for RPs, Coffer currency, Power Points and/or some AD gain
Dread Ring Campaign grind for Marks and Coffer Currency
Underdark Campaign Grind for Demonic Keys
Maze Engine Daily for RP, RAD and Experience
Storm Kings Thunder Campaign grind for boon progression
Relic farm for gear/boon progression
Storm Kings Thunder HEs for gear progression
2x dungeons, 2x skirmishes for daily RADs
Edemo for gear progression
This list doesn’t include weekly quests for RADs, the Tyranny of Dragon campaign or FBI, which is stuff I personally don’t do on a daily basis. It also doesn’t include running events that sometimes severely add to the daily commitment.
THREE HOUR INVESTMENT
Overall I’d measure the average time investment for all tasks in the three hour range, even for endgame geared characters. That’s per toon per day and, well, a lot. The issue with the current state of the game is that new additions add to the grind and do not replace old one. Storm Kings Thunder did replace the Dragonflight event with FBI as the destination for top gear. Some guilds however might still need to run it for Stronghold progression and the new HEs and dailies across three zones directly add to the daily list.
Now with Sea of Moving Ice, there is again more added than replaced. Epic Demogorgon will be probably gone for the new Svardborg trial. But you still need to do SKT grind and have even more dailies in the new zone as well as fishing. It’s insane. We’ve reached a point where players are simply not able to get all tasks done. It’s sad that Icewind Dale currently is merely dead meat, but I’m so glad we at least don’t need to look back after completing the campaign there. The new zone is beautiful, but because of its size and the relatively slow travel on the water, the dailies are again comparably long.
TOO MANY DIFFERENT GRINDS
Demonic HE Well of Dragons
Could somebody tell the devs that HEs are not fun?
The main issue in my eyes is something we’ve said around here multiple times. The different grinds and attached tasks are too isolated from each other. When you do Influence Runs, you net little else in the process. Grinding campaigns doesn’t net RADs. Daily dungeons do not contribute to gear progression. To progress in different areas of the game, you need to mindlessly go through countless tasks, because there’s too little overlap. Does anybody have fun running a gazillion SKT HE’s for Lanolin? I sure don’t and Sea of Moving Ice will require even more of the resource.
The new Svardborg chest structure requires players to continuously run fishing, dailies and HEs in the new zone to get additional chests. I know that’s optional, but it still feels more of an effort than getting keys for Fangbreaker Island, Demogorgon or Castle Never. I especially liked that you could acquire Demonic Keys by just running group content. That way you could achieve multiple things at once in getting some RADs, progress towards gear and also restock on keys. This accumulation of daily tasks is what the game needs going forward.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
It’s funny that the devs reiterate they can only do so much with the amount of resources they have when the game has gotten to the point where players can also only do so much of the tasks the devs throw at them. I think looking at the game it was justified to keep old content viable for a long time. But with Sea of Moving Ice the grind is getting out of hand and more of the new tasks have to actually replace old ones. Especially more Stronghold and RP progression has to be tied to current content. Otherwise players are constantly forced to go back to old campaigns which bloats the daily task list. The devs do not like wasting assets, but at some point players need to leave content behind and turn to other stuff without missing out.
What’s your take on the daily grind in Neverwinter? Do you feel exhausted or like different options on any given day? Share your thoughts in the comments below or visit the corresponding thread on our message board."
This simply cannot continue , Mod 10 forward is broken, I know they dont have real time to play the game, but then they need to take some feedback and balance it out some.
Mod removed references of a rule violation.
NEVERWINTER GRIND IS SLOWLY GETTING OUT OF HAND WITH MODULE 10.5
On release day of Patch/Module 10.5 I’d like to look at one of my big concerns of the next major content update, Sea of Moving Ice. I was very disappointed to see that you still need to do SKT dailies and content to progress and get the boons. The list of daily tasks players have to do is already long and continues to blow up that way. Here’s what you could do on a PVE toon prior to Sea of Moving Ice given that you completed all older campaigns and unlocked their boons:
Stronghold Influence Run
Sharandar Campaign grind for RPs, Coffer currency, Power Points and/or some AD gain
Dread Ring Campaign grind for Marks and Coffer Currency
Underdark Campaign Grind for Demonic Keys
Maze Engine Daily for RP, RAD and Experience
Storm Kings Thunder Campaign grind for boon progression
Relic farm for gear/boon progression
Storm Kings Thunder HEs for gear progression
2x dungeons, 2x skirmishes for daily RADs
Edemo for gear progression
This list doesn’t include weekly quests for RADs, the Tyranny of Dragon campaign or FBI, which is stuff I personally don’t do on a daily basis. It also doesn’t include running events that sometimes severely add to the daily commitment.
THREE HOUR INVESTMENT
Overall I’d measure the average time investment for all tasks in the three hour range, even for endgame geared characters. That’s per toon per day and, well, a lot. The issue with the current state of the game is that new additions add to the grind and do not replace old one. Storm Kings Thunder did replace the Dragonflight event with FBI as the destination for top gear. Some guilds however might still need to run it for Stronghold progression and the new HEs and dailies across three zones directly add to the daily list.
Now with Sea of Moving Ice, there is again more added than replaced. Epic Demogorgon will be probably gone for the new Svardborg trial. But you still need to do SKT grind and have even more dailies in the new zone as well as fishing. It’s insane. We’ve reached a point where players are simply not able to get all tasks done. It’s sad that Icewind Dale currently is merely dead meat, but I’m so glad we at least don’t need to look back after completing the campaign there. The new zone is beautiful, but because of its size and the relatively slow travel on the water, the dailies are again comparably long.
TOO MANY DIFFERENT GRINDS
Demonic HE Well of Dragons
Could somebody tell the devs that HEs are not fun?
The main issue in my eyes is something we’ve said around here multiple times. The different grinds and attached tasks are too isolated from each other. When you do Influence Runs, you net little else in the process. Grinding campaigns doesn’t net RADs. Daily dungeons do not contribute to gear progression. To progress in different areas of the game, you need to mindlessly go through countless tasks, because there’s too little overlap. Does anybody have fun running a gazillion SKT HE’s for Lanolin? I sure don’t and Sea of Moving Ice will require even more of the resource.
The new Svardborg chest structure requires players to continuously run fishing, dailies and HEs in the new zone to get additional chests. I know that’s optional, but it still feels more of an effort than getting keys for Fangbreaker Island, Demogorgon or Castle Never. I especially liked that you could acquire Demonic Keys by just running group content. That way you could achieve multiple things at once in getting some RADs, progress towards gear and also restock on keys. This accumulation of daily tasks is what the game needs going forward.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
It’s funny that the devs reiterate they can only do so much with the amount of resources they have when the game has gotten to the point where players can also only do so much of the tasks the devs throw at them. I think looking at the game it was justified to keep old content viable for a long time. But with Sea of Moving Ice the grind is getting out of hand and more of the new tasks have to actually replace old ones. Especially more Stronghold and RP progression has to be tied to current content. Otherwise players are constantly forced to go back to old campaigns which bloats the daily task list. The devs do not like wasting assets, but at some point players need to leave content behind and turn to other stuff without missing out.
What’s your take on the daily grind in Neverwinter? Do you feel exhausted or like different options on any given day? Share your thoughts in the comments below or visit the corresponding thread on our message board."
This simply cannot continue , Mod 10 forward is broken, I know they dont have real time to play the game, but then they need to take some feedback and balance it out some.
Mod removed references of a rule violation.
Post edited by kreatyve on
6
Comments
I won't buy a purple trovel because I have 8 toons I want to play.
I bought the dragonborn pack because it gave every toon the same package.
I bought no other because there was only a single bag. All this stuff should be account wide,
as should be boon unlocks and as should be all the currency items (ichor/tales/black ice/you name it)
the grind killed me and feels a second not payed job.
Is there and have there been discussions on balancing the grind levels of these new mods some?
Many of us just cannot continue playing your game, do log in and do really un fun tasks for hours and hours on end.
How or why was this not vetted better and how or why are you totally ignoring players when we ask for a review of this.
This is like the 50th thread based upon levels of grind, that is no longer sustainable in your game.
The grind has really gotten out of hand, and seems to get worse now as we will eventually have to grind for keys in hopes of rare loot (lets be real, even if they improve the loot, they still won't make it worth it in the eyes of the players...see: FBI and the many comments that they think the loot there is fair).
I feel bad for anyone trying to keep more than one character going. You are literally spending hours just to keep up. Even with one toon, you can spend a long time doing nothing but dailies (which are fun the first time only - after that, its nothing but grind), because the dailies and weeklies are seemingly the only way to keep making progress. Running dungeons makes little progress...which is odd for a D&D game.
I still think back to the beginning, when someone associated with the game made a comment to the affect of "We are going to have real quests in this game - you aren't going to be seeing a quest to kill 50 orcs in our game!" Ultimatley, that is about all we do.
Mod removed reference of a rule violation.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I have had hv, aow, ad, hp, royal gear, all got back in the day , not purchased.. ground..
I have run tens of thousands of dungeons.. TENS OF THOUSANDS. For 2-3 mods, all I did was PVP even.
I opened up every class artifact, did hundreds of different foundries..
I tested, provided feedback, done some of the alpha testing schedules.
I spent months, MONTHS getting influence and coffer junk on 3-4 toons.
I have or done weeklies on up to 10 toons every week..
I have participated in almost everything they threw at us, more or less in terms of content, without complaint (the one exception was mod 4, where i waited around for dragons.. boring)
NONE of what YOU MADE up to mod 10, has made me want to quit.. there is just no reason to continue in this game.
So the moment someone comes on this thread and dares to say , Im lazy or do not want to grind, that is clearly NOT THE CASE.
I just refuse to do things that ARE THIS boring and UN-FUN.
FIX this mess.
this whole 2 part module has been a monumental HAMSTER of boring, much more than I can be bothered with, and I've forced myself to play the grind on all other content beforehand.
I dont blame any of them, clearly if this is the direction they are going to take.. why even bother to log in anymore..
I know some people who are giving up daily keys for the next 5 months.. because its not worth it to them anymore.
Seriously..
No, but seriously, Mod 10, and 10.5 is just ridiculos when it comes to lack of actual substance, and horrible, horrible grind for very little reward in comparison to time spent.
I will most likely take a break (or call it quits) from this game after the Winter festival, I don't really see any resaon to keep grinding just for the numbers, without any fun linked to it...
The other main point of the article is "there's too much repetition of exactly the same, few missions" to which I answer "yep! Absolutely. Cryptic needs to do much better."
The Foundry is a tool that lets players create content. I was pleased (and more than a little surprised) to see it received a tiny bit of attention this patch. With just a little work it could be used to provide alternate paths to progress in campaigns (perhaps 50% of the grind could alternatively be done in select Foundry missions paired to the module). Sure it could be exploited if not handled carefully but it can be done. There's a more detailed version of this suggestion in the Foundry sub-forum.
It's easy to find fault in things, harder to put yourself in someone else's shoes and figure out how to improve on their work. What do you think could Cryptic could do better (in relation to the original post)?
(Remember they have finite resources and anything they work on is a tradeoff for something else they could have worked on).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Very illogical to me.
They couldve taken any number of feedbacked and did a balance pass, with a woops, we gated this a little too harshly, we are giving more lanolins and vblood..
all would be more or less happy.
But they havent.. so I assuming they are ignoring the feedback.
I mean really, how many man hours of coding would it take to make the daily quests give from 50 to 200 vblood and the lanolin drop rate factor to be moved a bit higher.
How about introducing lanolin as a reward in FBI?
All of these things could be done, but the only real reason I do not see it, is they are trying to force poeple to buy things to skip content.
I simply do not buy your arguments.
The content overall is boring and unfun, they could at least review HOW long it takes to get through it.
ITS SIMPLY not balanced when you compare them to other campaigns.
I haven't done the math on the grind for this campaign vs others to form my own opinion but I don't really mind if it takes longer... if I'm doing fun things that naturally take me toward that goal. That's the real failing for me. There's too much repetitiveness in every module to progress toward the module rewards.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
mountsboats that get stuck all the time, a new fishing mechanism that emerged from the "finite resources" the devs have and certainly was the right "tradeoff for something else they could have worked on", and aparently treasure hunting (I didn't get that far, emergency maitenance saved me)...Saying that it's slowly getting out of hand is and understatement.
It is like 'you dont like this HAMSTER, well here is the same HAMSTER tripled, maybe next time you will shut up'.
Instead of running the new content, I am going back and doing old stuff on a DC that was a leadership alt since Mod 2. That tells you what I think of the new content and the horrible, horrible, god awful grind that the developers seem to think is the way this game should go. I'll skip this mod and level my DC, but if the next mod is the same I'll be looking for other more enjoyable ways to occupy my time (and $$).
I keep reading the feedback wondering if I will ever understand why someone thought that making fishing a major part of the next mod is a good idea. I keep wondering if I have slipped into a parallel universe where this HAMSTER is awesome fun for gamers
Lets remove all the fun stuff from the game
Lets remove all the decent loot from the game
Lets replace it with boring grind and gated progression
??? wtf ???
- do the developers punch each other in the face for fun???
. . . . the mind boggles
I tried out the new zone on the shard, and am prob going to avoid it entirely this time around. I'll just make Drowned_Burning weapons for my alts, be annoyed at the changes to SWs and OPs (I can complain even as a soloist who's not much impacted by the changes to TC, BO, and DP- the changes to VoE ruin much of how I used it before, that and making me have to cast CoP more often w/o speeding up its cast time- pffft), and happily stay far away from this new content while I spend that time doing other things I enjoy at least a lil. I was already gated from much of the newer content as a soloist and non-whale, but now I'm just not gonna entertain the grind.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Guys, you don't need to fill our time with ceaseless grind!! We will happily run a lower amount of grind on more toons for the same overall time.
Less grind per character means the burden feels lower. More characters mean more variety. It also means that it will be easier for everybody to make parties for content. Currently finding tanks for FBI is very difficult compared to finding DPSers. I thought about rolling a tank and bringing it up to speed but looked at the sheer amount of effort and gave up...
At the end of mod5 I had an HR, a SW, a DC and a TR that could run all content and I was working on a CW and a GWF. With module 6 I rolled an OP and brought him to a decent level but soon realized that I had to leave some toon behind.
I tried to go on with HR, SW (temptation) and OP to have one toon in each role (the OP was actuall a devotion but with a simple respec I could have turned it into a tank). Then I left the OP behind.
Now I focus on the HR only and try to slowly make the SW follow, but looking at SoMI I guess I'll have to give up the SW too.
She's at 2,6k now with all campaign done except SKT (three boon now) and Tyranny (missing the last one which is marginal). I can do CN with her but the sheer amount of effort to bring her to FBI level is staggering. Up the artifacts, up the weapons, up the enchantments, farm lanolin, farm for the boots (no luck so far), farm voniblod, farm this and farm that.
So basically now also my SW is gone and I will not buy any character slot anymore (I hate profession farming with all my heart too).
You're killing one of the main values of this game. The fact that classes feel and play different.
The solution is simple. Cut the amount of grind by let's say 4 and make all campaign resources tradeable within an account. This means that with the same grinding level of today with one toon you may keep up four of them campaign wise.
Some people may decide to run one toon only and for example do more dungeons for ad, others would prefer to have 4 toons up to speed with campaigns, but most likely people will settle in the middle with 2-3 toons up to speed for the campaign and some more free time to do dungeons, farm for strongholds, help fellow guildies, do debugging for you on preview, play pvp, play foundry...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Fishing yes. My dream was allways to fish in the Forgotten Realms. I can sleep now. /sarcasm
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Don't get me wrong the new zone is awesome looking but the campaign stuff attached to it is a pain and moving through it is really slow.
I like the idea behind some of the treasure maps but I have threw out 2 because I just can not find them....
With Mod 10 I was able to do them on 1 main and 2 alts.... If I continue with this latest addition, I will only have time for one. It might be too much for even one... I guess I'll wait and see if the skirmish is any better......
Repeat with me FRUSTRATION! playing a game lol
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
But for sure there are enough players that will castigate themselves with the unbearable grind, that will keep on playing this mod, that will keep on ranting in the forums and ruin the opportunity to show Cryptic that what they offer is not what we want. Sad.
What could Cryptic have done better? It was already suggested but I'll repeat it: they could have brought back the rest of the dungeons they took away from us in Mod 6 - hell even half of them. Instead they gave us fishing. Not a daily but a whole bloody update centred around fishing... SMH.
I play this game A LOT. And when my main still doesn't have all the boons and completed all the campaigns that is certainly saying something about the INSANE GRIND.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Its not really about rating this mod by itself, if this is all we had to do.. the grind would be actually OK. But its not, so its not.
The issue here , is this mmo tries to make everything relevant or needed to do.
While other mmos ditch pretty much ALL old stuff in favor of new stuff.
If your going to keep things relevent to do.. then you need to balance the grinding a little bit better.
As it stands now , this whole concept of mod 10 forward is just too much overall and it gets really TEDIOUS and really boring really quick.
I dont want the feedback to me.. your mod sux.. that isnt really the issue, the issue is there is too much to do and it takes way too long overall to get it completed.
If they would just streamline this campaign to be more in line with other ones.. that would work for me.
It's just one more of many things I no longer understand about this game. Oh well - whatever.