Control Wizard Party Role

metalicum1 · October 2016

currently on PS4 there are almost no CWs, and those few brave souls all play Spell Storm Thaumaturge build. Is there any other way to play this class really effectively?
I've tried about 5-6 builds and currently I am trying buff/support with very little personal damage output, but a lot of buffs/debuffs/control action (Master of Flame - Renegade full + chill stacking for freeze. . It seems to be fine, but too early to really say something substantial other then it's fine. With the same party we have pretty much the same overall progress speed and I help with crowd control a little. I tried to avoid all damage based feats and focus on AP, recovery, Crti strike for buff proc, and so on.

Are there any similar threads discussing this? Have you experimented with the class? Is there a way how to truly boost control powers and control duration so that it substantially helps in Epic D or even during boss battles (i.e. Imprisonment does not seem to work at all when applied to bosses like Orcus).

Why this class doesn't receive any class balance when not played at all?

armadeonx · October 2016

I have a 3.1k CW running an SS Thaum build but with points in Icy Veins which pretty much insta-freezes enemies around you. I have CC bonus above 1k (soft cap) and chose the 25% control bonus from the final Underdark boon, which works in CN and Edemo.

In edemo and cn I get beaten (in dps) by similar IL GWF and SW, especially on the final boss in CN even though I switch to solo powers. The runs between the bosses are where I get most of my points and nobody dies from the mobs as they are all frozen.

Some specific dungeons/skirms see me doing better but they have to be mob-heavy. Basically the more enemies, the higher up the board I go - e.g. it's rare for me to not be top in Thrones.

The CW was 'balanced' a long while back (mod 5 I believe). They used to be the top DPS, similar to the SW at the moment but they were heavily nerfed which pretty much relegated them to a support class. The GWF has recently recovered from a similar uber-nerf. They spent several mods at the bottom of the pile after a certain players v staff pvp match (I've seen the video, it's hilarious).

*edit - The thing needed by the CW to make them desirable and competitive again is a boost to their single target powers. Watching a CW soloing Orcus compared to an SW, GWF or HR is painful to say the least. At the very least they should fix Disintegrate so it does the damage stated on the tool-tip. It's currently a lot less than that.

Unknown · October 2016

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armadeonx · October 2016

Yep I always have Chilling Presence slotted. This post actually inspired me to do a bit of a respec yesterday lol.

My goal being to boost single target dps so I've taken 3 points from Wizard's Wrath and increased Blighting Power to 3 and added 1 to Arcane Enhancement. I also changed my 5th Underdark boon to +10% against demons, partly because Icy Veins freezes them enough & I can reapply continuously so why not focus more on end-boss effectiveness.

Thanks for the inspiration

asterotg · October 2016

There is a CW thraum/ oppressor build with high dps. On the downside, it requires great gear, companions etc and lacks the renegade buffs.

I have seen some with this build, but I know just of a few who pull it off and make most 4k SWs sad little puppies.

forumnamesuxs · October 2016

I have two CWs, one ss thaum and one mof rene, both with icy veins. What the mof lacks in dps, it more than makes up for in buffs/debuffs. Both paragons are equally viable, depending on what you want them to do. I am not quite convinced that oppressor is a good choice for pve though. It's not terrible, just not quite as good as the other two.
Anyway, if you really want to see cc effects on t2 mobs, you also need the cc boost comps and VT arti set.

Unknown · October 2016

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asterotg · October 2016

desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing

Where does a GF buff more, then a MoF renegade CW? Tactican GF has 35% and crushing pins, thats it, as far as I know. Even with AP gain, CWs buff have a higher value.

thefabricant · October 2016

Sooo....

desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing

The devs happen to have said this:

asterdahl said:

Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier.

I bolded the important parts.

You can find that on this thread.

I think CW is viable in an end game party.

lukejones77 · October 2016

Traditionally CW is the class most favored by players, for the role of DPS.
This worked well in the far past (too much so), and the CW has now being very badly nerfed for the DPS role, for a very long time.

The DPS CW is still ok, for long term players that had enough time to gather the best gear. Recently, gear available to all DPS classes has been powerful enough to smooth out much of the difference. If you're very rich, can barely keep relevant as a DPS.

The *DPS* CW though is still very far behind all other DPS classes, everything else being equal.
DPS classes are fundamentally competitive with each other, and petition loudly in forums to get themselves boosted, or to get other classes nerfed. It's not too bad at the moment, as the only content tough enough to make a difference is the new FBI - largely ignored by players as having undesirable rewards.
Many, with ancient memories of when the CW was a powerful DPS class, are quick to scream that CWs are meant to be about "Control". The sad truth is that the enemies are now very control resistant, and classes such as HR (who significantly out-DPS CW - gear levels being equal) do better control.

Some long-term CWs have successfully re-invented themselves with a buff/debuff support role (not *direct* DPS), which is what theFabricant is referring to. Healers and tanks have focused on similar strategies in the past, as other changes made their primary role less important.
Whilst players like thefabricant have found a definitive support class role role for the CW (one that the DEVs are trying to kill - and have started by killing off the old support-heavy gear), the issue at large is about the role the great majority of people actually want for their CW - DPS!

The bottom line is that it is no surprise to me that there are few CWs on PS4, because it's a *new* platform, and the CW class is fundamentally a broken worst case DPS class. Players tend to be smart about these things, and as things stand, nobody would invest massive time and effort into such a poor return - particularly since it's gone on for such as long time, without any sign from the DEVs of showing it any kind of love.
With DEVs looking to machine big buff/debuff, the viable spot thefabricant has found as a support role would also have to be considered an endangered species. In fact, thefabricant is one of the best, mot knowledgeable and helpful CWs you'll ever find, and there's a back story to DEVs smashing certain gear, used successfully by just a few in rare cases (relatively speaking, across the NW landscape) - that is just... sad.

Within my guild, and beyond, I've had many, many players want to play CW, and ask me for advice. First thing I check with them is the role they want to play, and it's almost always DPS. I've cautioned, over many modules now, that DPS CW is bad choice, unless Cryptic deliver on balancing promises.
Very sadly, that time has come, and is now passing us. The SW and HR classes, for example, have supposedly recently being balanced, and the outcome was not good in an overall sense (they're happy!!!). They got closer to the massive GWF, and further away from the DPS CW.
There was also a determination that the other classes would get balanced, before focus turned to content balance.
Unfortunately, focus now seemed to have switched to content (nerfing of support buff/debuff which embarrassed recent content release), leaving the other classes where they are (nice for the GWF, very bad for the DPS CW).

So now, I have the faintest glimmer of hope for the CW, as the vast majority of players want to play it:
Perhaps the DEVs, seeing the effect of their extreme lack of CW love with very low adoption rates on a new platform, will finally fix the class.

drewhayes · October 2016

thefabricant said:
Sooo....
desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing
The devs happen to have said this:
asterdahl said:

Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier.
I bolded the important parts.

You can find that on this thread.

I think CW is viable in an end game party.

I think you missed the point of that post. The CW is viable... when wearing a legacy gear which is known to over-perform... & which costs millions of AD, IF you can find one. Oh, I almost forgot. Gear which the devs are looking into doing away with. Oh, wait. OP is a console player. They CAN'T get that gear. At all.

urabask · October 2016

drewhayes said:

thefabricant said:
Sooo....
desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing
The devs happen to have said this:
asterdahl said:

Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier.
I bolded the important parts.

You can find that on this thread.

I think CW is viable in an end game party.
I think you missed the point of that post. The CW is viable... when wearing a legacy gear which is known to over-perform... & which costs millions of AD, IF you can find one. Oh, I almost forgot. Gear which the devs are looking into doing away with. Oh, wait. OP is a console player. They CAN'T get that gear. At all.

Having an MoF still makes runs noticeably faster even if they don't have HV.

lukejones77 said:
Within my guild, and beyond, I've had many, many players want to play CW, and ask me for advice. First thing I check with them is the role they want to play, and it's almost always DPS. I've cautioned, over many modules now, that DPS CW is bad choice, unless Cryptic deliver on balancing promises.

This is complete hyperbole. Until mod 10 there wasn't a dungeon where CW wasn't more than sufficient to be a DPS carry. Now the only difference is that you need to near BiS to do it in FBI.

asterotg said:

desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing
Where does a GF buff more, then a MoF renegade CW? Tactican GF has 35% and crushing pins, thats it, as far as I know. Even with AP gain, CWs buff have a higher value.

GF's mark has a debuff and they can take the offhand bonus for enhanced mark for an additional debuff.

szejhuludpuchacz · October 2016

CW can do well even without legacy gear, just need some investment (pure or trans weapon enchant dread/vorpal and high rank bondings are a must), build and playstyle (you cannot be slowest in group because all you gonna see is dying mobs, need some movement+guile bonus maybe).

thefabricant · October 2016

drewhayes said:

thefabricant said:
Sooo....
desisti said:
CONTROL WIZARD PARTY ROLE is to be not as effective buff debuff as DC/GF, not as effective dps as SW/GWF and not as effective controller as HR, as simple as that

And 'cause control in this game is as useful as air brakes on a turtle you don't need HR or CW anywhere. Best party composition is GF, 2*DC, SW and GWF, end of story. Devs did balancing so masterfully that they can erase 4 classes and rest of the population wouldn't feel that something is missing
The devs happen to have said this:
asterdahl said:

Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier.
I bolded the important parts.

You can find that on this thread.

I think CW is viable in an end game party.
I think you missed the point of that post. The CW is viable... when wearing a legacy gear which is known to over-perform... & which costs millions of AD, IF you can find one. Oh, I almost forgot. Gear which the devs are looking into doing away with. Oh, wait. OP is a console player. They CAN'T get that gear. At all.

Oh please, the support CW spec is still viable without the mod 5 set. It is worse? Absolutely. Is it still a desired spec in an end game party? Yes. But of coarse, I know absolutely nothing about the CW class and shouldn't give my opinion on it. /s

tom · October 2016

I will still take an support CW anytime over another DPS in my Party.!

lukejones77 · October 2016

urabask said:

lukejones77 said:
Within my guild, and beyond, I've had many, many players want to play CW, and ask me for advice. First thing I check with them is the role they want to play, and it's almost always DPS. I've cautioned, over many modules now, that DPS CW is bad choice, unless Cryptic deliver on balancing promises.
This is complete hyperbole. Until mod 10 there wasn't a dungeon where CW wasn't more than sufficient to be a DPS carry. Now the only difference is that you need to near BiS to do it in FBI.

You're missing the point and the context. Yes, *everyone* can be a sufficient DPS carry prior to FBI (DCs and GFs included).
The class is broken as DPS, and only gets by in the role because the content balance is even more broken.
Consider the OP's opening sentence: "currently on PS4 there are almost no CWs".
The DEV Balancing Promise was to balance 1/2 the classes, then the other 1/2, and then the content.
Stage 1 saw HRs and SWs get stronger, and now we have a skip past stage 2 - leaving the superhero GWF, and the weak CW that nobody wants when they start fresh on a new platform like PS4. DEV attention has now turned to content balance, and started by taking aim at buff/debuff gear.
If you want to play a DPS class from scratch, and you know what you're doing, you don't make a CW. Period.

urabask · October 2016

lukejones77 said:

urabask said:

lukejones77 said:
Within my guild, and beyond, I've had many, many players want to play CW, and ask me for advice. First thing I check with them is the role they want to play, and it's almost always DPS. I've cautioned, over many modules now, that DPS CW is bad choice, unless Cryptic deliver on balancing promises.
This is complete hyperbole. Until mod 10 there wasn't a dungeon where CW wasn't more than sufficient to be a DPS carry. Now the only difference is that you need to near BiS to do it in FBI.
You're missing the point and the context. Yes, *everyone* can be a sufficient DPS carry prior to FBI (DCs and GFs included).
The class is broken as DPS, and only gets by in the role because the content balance is even more broken.
Consider the OP's opening sentence: "currently on PS4 there are almost no CWs".
The DEV Balancing Promise was to balance 1/2 the classes, then the other 1/2, and then the content.
Stage 1 saw HRs and SWs get stronger, and now we have a skip past stage 2 - leaving the superhero GWF, and the weak CW that nobody wants when they start fresh on a new platform like PS4. DEV attention has now turned to content balance, and started by taking aim at buff/debuff gear.
If you want to play a DPS class from scratch, and you know what you're doing, you don't make a CW. Period.

HRs barely budged and they're on par with CWs. SWs are still bug reliant.

Also, there's a lot of misinformation on consoles. For a while people on xbox thought stacking past 60% RI would increase their damage. Console players don't have anyone able to test anything with ACT so they're going off logs/paingiver and make a lot of assumptions as a result.

Meanwhile on PC I know there are 20 minute FBI runs being carried by CWs.

mamalion1234 · October 2016

IN a run with a guardian fighter if the gf is offensive build and use commander strike the 2nd weakest dps will be third always because gf will deal the encounter damage of the first dps trough commander strike. IF the guardian fighter trying also to deal extra damage which is not coming from commander strike maybe will end up first.

lukejones77 · October 2016

urabask said:

HRs barely budged and they're on par with CWs. SWs are still bug reliant.

Also, there's a lot of misinformation on consoles. For a while people on xbox thought stacking past 60% RI would increase their damage. Console players don't have anyone able to test anything with ACT so they're going off logs/paingiver and make a lot of assumptions as a result.

Meanwhile on PC I know there are 20 minute FBI runs being carried by CWs.

OK:

I know many HRs very happy since their "balancing", typically performing at the same DPS level as a BIS CW, with up to 900 less gear score. I'm sure you have noticed this if you've been checking ACT.
The SWs I've seen are tearing up without using Fabled gear, and have been through the balancing effort. At some point you've got to treat it as effectively "working as intended", with no sign of changing. In other words - not a bug.
CWs carrying 20 minute FBI runs? This has happened with CWs in a buff/debuff role (which the DEVs are trying to kill). It could also be possible in a party configuration where the worst of DPS options available to you (the CW) is being very seriously buffed by other party members - hence the DEV hunt to kill crazy buff/debuff stacks.
Console players making assumptions without ACT? Not really relevant. It's a level playing field for class comparison, and they aint making CWs.

It really doesn't help to misinform about the viability of the (by far) worst DPS class, by highlighting examples of plausible relevance in the context of broken content balance (either straight up overly easy content, or reliant on buffing that DEVs are clearly trying to stop.
The game badly needs content balancing, and part of that will clearly be to control buff/debuff. If that gets addressed, and the classes stay as they are, the CW is not the class anyone informed will turn to, if they build a character from scratch for DPS.

Let's not quibble about the veracity of straw man examples. How about some real skin in the discussion. Why don't you make a recommendation to players that want a DPS main, from scratch, to choose CW. Tell them over which other DPS class builds you make that recommendation.
Something along the line of "I, Urabask, recommend that, if you want to play a DPS as your main, to grind through millions and millions of AD, to the maximum potential of the class - can select a DPS CW, in preference to class(es) [HAMSTER]".?
What are those classes? To make it easy, the CW doesn't even needed to be better DPS than your selected class(es) - just not so far behind in ultimate DPS potential that you don't feel bad about recommending it. I'm sure you don't want to see people spend many extra months and millions of AD to 4K gear maxout - only to find out that they were much better off selecting *any* other DPS class.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

silverkelt · October 2016

Yes it does matter, without act, you are just not seeing the actual results.

This whole set up of optimal class party distribution is kind of upsetting to me to boot, most runs are between 25-40 mins long, with a average set up of groups wearing r12 items.

Sure you can go optimal, but Ive run 40 min fbis with TRs and 35 mins FBIS with gwfs. I sort of hate this reasoning of, lets not take anything, becuase X class will make it 5 mins shorter.

Sounds great on paper.. but its not always the case. Since FBI literally drops little , especially if you are skipping the grind of the gear.. its just a fun side activity, I can spare those 5 mins thanks..

Im glad for the diverse runs that Ive been, most of them have been crusader runs, we have done lots of different combinations.. CW/TR only dps runs.. 1 op no GF runs.. 1 GF no OP runs.. GWF/CW combo runs..

Most of the runs are always near the same.. My fastest I was in was 25 mins.. my slowest 50 mins.

I wish that they didnt hide the gear in a box.. nor do I participate in getting vblood, so its again, for me personally its only a fun activity, as I wait for better times again in neverwinter (not sure they will ever come anyways, as the gating/grinding of these things, are not activities I will participate in)

To state the CW has no role in FBI is ludicrous.. you can go as DPS, you can go as Buffer.

thefabricant · October 2016

desisti said:

thefabricant said:
Sooo....

asterdahl said:

Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running (soon to be dead)High Prophet while the wizard was running (soon to be dead)High Vizier.
I bolded the important parts.

You can find that on this thread.

I think CW is viable in an end game party.
There, fixed what asterdahl wanted to say
Listen, I'm not trying to argue just hear me out... let me use an example.
You are managing a team and on your disposal you have 2 strikers, one is lets say Messi (don't like him but I hate the other one ) and the other striker is Peter Crouch. You have a good team and you play against some poor fellas. Can your team win with Crouch instead of Messi... sure it can, you will wipe them either way but using Messi it will be a bit more easy. Same analogy can be applied here. DPS wise you are in a better position with SW or GWF (assuming they are geared and know their class). HV is on the exit door so buff/debuff potential of CW will be reduced (same analogy as above can be applied). All classes have their place and can be used in a pt for some roll, question is can you find better alternative for that role.

I'm saying this as a DPS CW. Played it since IWD hit the deck and have no other alts. Sitting on 3.4 and pretty happy about it

I will try to make it a little more clearer.

I was the CW in the party of all those, "fastest runs." I was there, I know what it takes to run fbi faster than every other group.

Proof (This is currently, to my knowledge, the fastest run on the server):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkpXMgxaRw

My perspective.

Will that support build still be viable post mod 5 set nerf? Yes, it will be. It won't be as strong as it was before the nerf sure, but it will still be strong enough to justify a space in an endgame group.

Does a DPS CW spec compete with a GWF/SW? No. Is it still viable? Yes. As for MoF... MoF is 1 of the BiS support options for a party, it undeniably still competes. You have to remember, when it comes to considering a striker vs a support:

If you have 3 dps in a party and are considering whether to bring a dps or a support, a dps has to boost party damage by more than 33% to be worth taking. If all they contribute is dps, then that is not possible. A DC or a GF contribute more than that, so DC/GF are both better than a 4th DPS.

If you have 2 DPS, a third support has to boost party damage by more than 50%. CW? Easily. HR or OP could also fill this role.

If you have 1 DPS, a 4th support has to boost party damage by more than 100%. This is when things start getting tricky and I don't think 4 support classes do manage to meet that criteria, but the other benefits provided by support imo, outweigh the slight loss in DPS.

The only class I would argue that is strictly inferior to other classes in PVE is TR, because they only have 1 role (dps) and they perform it worse than GWF or SW.

Either way, my philosophy (and the philosophy of the players I run with) for team building has managed to get us the fastest clear times on the server. This is a fact. You can say what you like about CW, the fastest groups will continue to run with them.

commanderdata002 · October 2016

urabask said:

HRs barely budged and they're on par with CWs. SWs are still bug reliant.

Also, there's a lot of misinformation on consoles. For a while people on xbox thought stacking past 60% RI would increase their damage. Console players don't have anyone able to test anything with ACT so they're going off logs/paingiver and make a lot of assumptions as a result.

Meanwhile on PC I know there are 20 minute FBI runs being carried by CWs.

CW is not on par with skilled HR!

Current dps roughly is
-GWF/SW/HR/GF+commander strike
-TR/CW

I find that funny that it is another platform who notice the truth and talk about openly that CW should have more dps option!
For starter the thaumaturgy paragon tree.

spideymt · October 2016

A lot of striker classes will give up some strike abilites if they get some CC for it. A good playing CW makes dungeons much much more easier,

asterotg · October 2016

spideymt said:
A lot of striker classes will give up some strike abilites if they get some CC for it. A good playing CW makes dungeons much much more easier,

Bc in this video you can see, that the fastest FBI runs were done with a MoF CW in the group. He proves, that CW is viable as buff, even part of BIS combo atm.

metalicum1 · October 2016

So what weapon enchant should an SS Renegade CW use? Dread, Vorpal, or a completely different one like Fey or Terror to maximize DPS of the group?

dravendrow76 · October 2016

thefabricant said:

The only class I would argue that is strictly inferior to other classes in PVE is TR, because they only have 1 role (dps) and they perform it worse than GWF or SW.

Situational... maybe, depends on.... the Player !!!
Smokebomb, DazingStrike brings a nice amount of CC, and pick up a dying DPS or BUFF char without aggro will be the difference in fail and success, sometimes.

Don´t want to mimimi but every class has its role if you´re willing to take it.

For Speedruns maybe TR is in the wrong position (like 3 of 8), but i dont mind Speedruns.
Neverwinter offers 8 classes with each 3 different trees, and various mixes of the trees.
Each Char is viable in my opinion - only in case of Speedrun maybe more or less.

ajlir · October 2016

dravendrow76 said:

thefabricant said:

The only class I would argue that is strictly inferior to other classes in PVE is TR, because they only have 1 role (dps) and they perform it worse than GWF or SW.
Situational... maybe, depends on.... the Player !!!
Smokebomb, DazingStrike brings a nice amount of CC, and pick up a dying DPS or BUFF char without aggro will be the difference in fail and success, sometimes.

Don´t want to mimimi but every class has its role if you´re willing to take it.

For Speedruns maybe TR is in the wrong position (like 3 of 8), but i dont mind Speedruns.
Neverwinter offers 8 classes with each 3 different trees, and various mixes of the trees.
Each Char is viable in my opinion - only in case of Speedrun maybe more or less.

I don't see TRs using Bait and Switch in dungeons.

dravendrow76 · October 2016

ajlir#7970 said:

I don't see TRs using Bait and Switch in dungeons.

...and that means..???

ajlir · October 2016

dravendrow76 said:

ajlir#7970 said:

I don't see TRs using Bait and Switch in dungeons.
...and that means..???

Gonna rephrase. Is Bait and Switch a viable encounter on Whisperknife debuff TR in PvE?

dravendrow76 · October 2016

don´t want to start a discussion about TR, and never said every encounter is "viable".
This is a CW "party role" Thread.
My statement was every class is "viable" in any way. Depends on the Player who plays the class.
In every player base you will find people who complain, my toon is weaker then other classes... except GWFs.
For myself i play a "fabricant" BIS CW and find it very "viable" same for my BIS Tr.
The spectrum goes from High DPS/low Control to Low DPS/High Controll depends on Skilltree. (on CW +Low/High Support.)

Control Wizard Party Role

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