Why i don't like the guild system

getsume · October 2016

I've come back to neverwinter after maybe a month are two and found that for the most part nobody in my guild was even on anymore and the coffer was nearly the same as what it was. All the guild needed was influence and surplus equipment and we'd be at GH lvl 3. I got the 30k equipment we still needed in under a week (I have 7 toons in the guild) and so all that was left was about 40k influence. Obviously it would take about 13-14 days of me doing it alone, which was a little depressing because i'd pretty much have to. So i decided to do a little math and see how many people would need to do it to get it done in a day; the answer was 100. "Now of course it's not like you need it done in a day or anything surely you could get by with maybe only 25 characters active in the guild." Is what i thought so i looked to see some of the later guild requirements. Starting with my current want GH 5 and i noticed a little note, "requires 5 other structures at lvl 2" which made no sense to me at all since when do people need to have there local farm and lumberyard in good condition before making a miniscule change to a run down keep! So checked how many things i'd have to donate in order to get the structures to lvl 2 and saw that it would take me a few months to do alone. It was really lame because unless it forced me to i would never upgrade any of those structures but with 25 people active in my guild, a reasonable amount, we'd probably finish it in a month. So I checked later requirements like GH 10 and saw that its requirements were insane you'd have to have a hundred active members in order to do it in a month.

And with that I come to my main problems with the guild system.
You have to be 60-70 to help your guild.
Which isn't too bad because you level a lot faster but people at those levels people are usually already in a guild; making it hard to get new and reliable members.

Designed for to many active players.
Even just starting out the first thing you build can take a few weeks if there's not many of you yet. I can understand the large requirements later on for structures because you can get new member easier because you have boons and stuff. It still seems wrong though to set it up with convincing people to leave there guild for better stuff in mind, when a guild is like a group of friends. But when it comes down to it structure cost should depend on the current number of toons in a guild.

The bonuses to being in a good guild are way to high.
A good guild offers you access to some of the best equipment as well as boons that give up to 8000 in a stat. That's just way to crazy that you can get massive bonuses just by joining a guild, imo the largest stat gains shouldn't come from pets and guild boons but from better equipment that you can either buy in the auction house or get on your own.

There is no customization.
I mean i suppose your boon choices could be considered customization but i mean actual customization like choosing to set up a statue in the courtyard or changing the castle brick type and roof color, I mean if a guild wanted to roleplay being an evil guild or something shouldn't they be able to have a keep that would fit them or something...

Thats all i can think of at the moment and if read all this I'm a little surprised and sorry for the rant.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

getsume · October 2016

Oh, and one other thing i don't like; the requirements make no sense i mean why would people need 23k fey trinkets to build a farm? They must have had a hard time before they rediscovered the entrance to the fey wild.

armadeonx · October 2016

I do agree about customisation, I'd like guilds to be able to design their own banners that can be flown in the keep and made as skins for cloaks for the members.

The purpose of guilds are to encourage people to play together as being a part of an active community lengthens their commitment to the game. The shared rewards (guild boons) have to be great enough to encourage players to stick with the process for months.

A person would only consider the boons too great if they didn't have access to them and yes Cryptic have designed a system that means if you aren't in an active guild then you lose out quite a bit. It's the carrot & stick approach of course.

The thing is, because of these benefits the majority of players want to be in an active guild but this really does take dedication and leadership. I assume you are the leader of your guild? If that's the case, you really can't afford to take a couple of months off unless you have a strong leadership team running things in your absence. Essentially, your guild didn't progress because you stopped playing. It would've been entirely possible for you to reach GH8 in that time if you had enough members - once they start seeing the boons ranking up it motivates them to get on with the task.

Currently one of the big alliances is spamming PE looking for a GH8+ guild to join it's alliance. If that were your guild joining, your members would have access to a top level market, dragonflight runs and edemo/cn etc runs with well specced players from the other guilds.

This is the future for this game. If you're going to run your own guild you have to be more dedicated than your membership. If you can't commit to that then you have two choices; put up with your guild being the way it is or go join an active one.

mordekai · October 2016

As a member of a small, and low level, guild one thing that I notice is that we can get low level members usually run by new players quite easily.
Once they get past 70 and start accumulating campaign boons and are ready to start contributing beyond a bit of L90 equipment and some rank 3 enchantments... they bugger off and join a bigger guild with available boons.
Really don't know what the solution is, but I think a restructuring of the boons,allowing some basic low level ones at lower guild levels might encourage people to stay.

ecrana · October 2016

Of course players leave lower level guild for guilds with better boons. No one wants to grind the stronghold advancement out. Having been part of a guild that went from 8-20 pretty quickly, I can say that it was a lot of work, a ton of dragon marathons, etc etc. That takes a lot of dedicated people so if a leader isn't even around it's not going to happen.

And another issue has been the number of people that left the game throughout the earlier parts of the year. Regardless of what some say, people have left and some guilds were going through mergers before Alliances even came out. You really need a strong nucleus of at least 50-75 members with the rest being new (hopefully) lone-term recruits. The grind sucks but the only answer is to have the manpower to handle it.

mordekai · October 2016

ecrana#2080 said:
Of course players leave lower level guild for guilds with better boons. No one wants to grind the stronghold advancement out. Having been part of a guild that went from 8-20 pretty quickly, I can say that it was a lot of work, a ton of dragon marathons, etc etc. That takes a lot of dedicated people so if a leader isn't even around it's not going to happen.

And another issue has been the number of people that left the game throughout the earlier parts of the year. Regardless of what some say, people have left and some guilds were going through mergers before Alliances even came out. You really need a strong nucleus of at least 50-75 members with the rest being new (hopefully) lone-term recruits. The grind sucks but the only answer is to have the manpower to handle it.

That's the chicken and egg scenario that we're in. Can't get players to stay the course without the boons, can't get the boons without the players who stay the course. We currently need nearly 200k Tyranny... I've done 25k and am down to my last few Linus, and a couple of others are chucking coins and the odd page of arcane lore. But we have people who just chuck in a couple of crappy items and the occasional Influence.

Without anything to offer beyond some VERY basic marketplace goods, its hard to either motivate or pressure people into doing more.

I've considered more than once jumping ship and getting myself some DF gear and the guild boons, but I consider that failing on the commitment I made. But unless we can find some folk who want to grow a guild rather than grab a quick hand out, I may one day think "sod it" and do the same. I know I'd be disappointed with myself if I did, but it balls me off when ex guildies make smug comments about their new armour and I know that I've put in ten times the guild effort for little to no reward.

getsume · October 2016

armadeonx said:
I do agree about customisation, I'd like guilds to be able to design their own banners that can be flown in the keep and made as skins for cloaks for the members.

The purpose of guilds are to encourage people to play together as being a part of an active community lengthens their commitment to the game. The shared rewards (guild boons) have to be great enough to encourage players to stick with the process for months.

A person would only consider the boons too great if they didn't have access to them and yes Cryptic have designed a system that means if you aren't in an active guild then you lose out quite a bit. It's the carrot & stick approach of course.

The thing is, because of these benefits the majority of players want to be in an active guild but this really does take dedication and leadership. I assume you are the leader of your guild? If that's the case, you really can't afford to take a couple of months off unless you have a strong leadership team running things in your absence. Essentially, your guild didn't progress because you stopped playing. It would've been entirely possible for you to reach GH8 in that time if you had enough members - once they start seeing the boons ranking up it motivates them to get on with the task.

Currently one of the big alliances is spamming PE looking for a GH8+ guild to join it's alliance. If that were your guild joining, your members would have access to a top level market, dragonflight runs and edemo/cn etc runs with well specced players from the other guilds.

This is the future for this game. If you're going to run your own guild you have to be more dedicated than your membership. If you can't commit to that then you have two choices; put up with your guild being the way it is or go join an active one.

I definetly like the banner idea.

I stopped playing because i ran out of xbox live gold and couldn't afford it at the time. I can understand that people are gonna stop if even the leader isn't on anymore, although even when i was on i was still pretty much the only one donating a lot of the time.

About the boons though I get that they do have to be good enough that people would even bother trying to get them but what I don't like about them being so strong is that there isn't an alternative for people who don't like being in guilds and there is no reason to stick with a small guild instead of just leaving. If they made it so when you join a guild with boons you would have to donate a certain amount before getting access, people probably wouldn't jump ship all the time.

getsume · October 2016

ecrana#2080 said:
Of course players leave lower level guild for guilds with better boons. No one wants to grind the stronghold advancement out. Having been part of a guild that went from 8-20 pretty quickly, I can say that it was a lot of work, a ton of dragon marathons, etc etc. That takes a lot of dedicated people so if a leader isn't even around it's not going to happen.

And another issue has been the number of people that left the game throughout the earlier parts of the year. Regardless of what some say, people have left and some guilds were going through mergers before Alliances even came out. You really need a strong nucleus of at least 50-75 members with the rest being new (hopefully) lone-term recruits. The grind sucks but the only answer is to have the manpower to handle it.

Yeah really wasn't expecting much to be done without me; I mean i was the major donator in the first place. I was pretty happy to see some of my members kept at it though.

I had hoped that with the new alliance system i could at least get into an alliance with a good market place but most people are more concerned with the miniscule discount for having higher level guilds in the alliance.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

armadeonx · October 2016

When I joined Ruthless we were still known as Judges Guild and were around GH6 or 7? There was no IL req except for being L70 but daily influence donations were a requirement.

To combat the tedium of this, the leaders would organise 15 man HE runs every day. This usually got a good turnout as there's always the chance to get some reasonable companion gear plus extra heroic shards of power. Running influence also gets you more campaign donations due to the certificates dropping.

Our leaders did invest quite a bit in purchasing keys to hand out to members after dragonflight runs which boosted our growth rate significantly until we reached the teens, after that the membership were sufficiently enthused by the speed at which their boons were improving that we rarely had much of a shortage on campaign donations or influence - we were usually standing around waiting for the production structures to catch up. People did slack off occasionally with influence and a couple of reminder emails were needed but overall we kept on track.

We ended up being the 3rd to reach GH20 on xbox and the 1st to do it without demanding a buy-in or daily/weekly donations of anything except influence (which is only a small time cost).

When Alliances dropped we were more interested in guild compatibility than GH level. We wanted strong swords but had no requirements on gauntlets, which we left up to the swords to recruit. We did expect that all guilds match our philosophy of not charging new or existing members. The lowest guilds to join us were GH4 and the majority were around 10-12.

Ruthless are currently sitting in a gauntlet position within the alliance as our leaders took the very egalitarian view that with us being GH20, it would benefit the next highest guild more to be helm (Filthy Casuals). They are about to hit 20, after getting the boon structures to r10 they'll hand over the helm to the next highest (Ladies of Neverwinter) to do exactly the same.

The point I think I'm trying to make is that there are non-selfish guilds/alliances out there but I accept they will be the minority. You'll probably need to go through the rotation of using & losing low level players for a while but it's only worth taking people who will run influence. Guilds are about give and take and if one side isn't doing their part then they are just taking space.

E.g. take on new L70's with the agreement that you'll help them run things to gear up but in return they need to run influence. That's the kind of win-win that'll get you to GH8, from there you'll start keeping more members (r4 boons) and be more attractive to an alliance.

note: once you get access to DF gear people will donate more as they'll need a lot of guild marks to buy the gear.

getsume · October 2016

armadeonx said:
When I joined Ruthless we were still known as Judges Guild and were around GH6 or 7? There was no IL req except for being L70 but daily influence donations were a requirement.

To combat the tedium of this, the leaders would organise 15 man HE runs every day. This usually got a good turnout as there's always the chance to get some reasonable companion gear plus extra heroic shards of power. Running influence also gets you more campaign donations due to the certificates dropping.

Our leaders did invest quite a bit in purchasing keys to hand out to members after dragonflight runs which boosted our growth rate significantly until we reached the teens, after that the membership were sufficiently enthused by the speed at which their boons were improving that we rarely had much of a shortage on campaign donations or influence - we were usually standing around waiting for the production structures to catch up. People did slack off occasionally with influence and a couple of reminder emails were needed but overall we kept on track.

We ended up being the 3rd to reach GH20 on xbox and the 1st to do it without demanding a buy-in or daily/weekly donations of anything except influence (which is only a small time cost).

When Alliances dropped we were more interested in guild compatibility than GH level. We wanted strong swords but had no requirements on gauntlets, which we left up to the swords to recruit. We did expect that all guilds match our philosophy of not charging new or existing members. The lowest guilds to join us were GH4 and the majority were around 10-12.

Ruthless are currently sitting in a gauntlet position within the alliance as our leaders took the very egalitarian view that with us being GH20, it would benefit the next highest guild more to be helm (Filthy Casuals). They are about to hit 20, after getting the boon structures to r10 they'll hand over the helm to the next highest (Ladies of Neverwinter) to do exactly the same.

The point I think I'm trying to make is that there are non-selfish guilds/alliances out there but I accept they will be the minority. You'll probably need to go through the rotation of using & losing low level players for a while but it's only worth taking people who will run influence. Guilds are about give and take and if one side isn't doing their part then they are just taking space.

E.g. take on new L70's with the agreement that you'll help them run things to gear up but in return they need to run influence. That's the kind of win-win that'll get you to GH8, from there you'll start keeping more members (r4 boons) and be more attractive to an alliance.

note: once you get access to DF gear people will donate more as they'll need a lot of guild marks to buy the gear.

Wow good advice and I'm glad to hear some guilds aren't so selfish.

I'm planning on letting some of my members go after I see who's still on, then I'll get some new people. We're not full or anything but when you join a guild and see that only 5 out of 88 still play it certainly doesn't encourage you to stay in the guild.

mahburg · October 2016

getsume#1425 said:

ecrana#2080 said:
Of course players leave lower level guild for guilds with better boons. No one wants to grind the stronghold advancement out. Having been part of a guild that went from 8-20 pretty quickly, I can say that it was a lot of work, a ton of dragon marathons, etc etc. That takes a lot of dedicated people so if a leader isn't even around it's not going to happen.

And another issue has been the number of people that left the game throughout the earlier parts of the year. Regardless of what some say, people have left and some guilds were going through mergers before Alliances even came out. You really need a strong nucleus of at least 50-75 members with the rest being new (hopefully) lone-term recruits. The grind sucks but the only answer is to have the manpower to handle it.
Yeah really wasn't expecting much to be done without me; I mean i was the major donator in the first place. I was pretty happy to see some of my members kept at it though.

I had hoped that with the new alliance system i could at least get into an alliance with a good market place but most people are more concerned with the miniscule discount for having higher level guilds in the alliance.

Contact me through the game (same handle) we are level 14 and set up an alliance specifically to help lower level guilds get access to stuff.

If I am on when you are just send a friend request and jump into party.
Cheers

armadeonx · October 2016

You can send out a guild mail asking members to put a comment next to their name & give them a couple of days to to do it - the comment is time stamped so you'll know who's active that way.

You should change your MOTD telling people to check their mail too as often a guild mail won't flag as a new message on peoples HUD.

iccyasd · October 2016

Just want to add, i started WindowsCentral with my friend @EastX around end of January 2016, we are now GH10 sitting at Gauntlet position under Ruthless Alliance, we never had any requirement to join other than being active, i have seen people come and go since GH1-8 (before Alliance).

Generally there is 3 types of people that you would encounter.

1) Loyal player that doesnt care if you have dragonflight/boons even if they were recruited to higher guild they stay with you, helping new low levels, giving out r7 / drow pants/shirt to boost new lvl70s & tips about upcoming events.

2) Un Loyal Player that never contributes, only focus on epic dungeons & always asking for dragonflight run on guild chat, they leave after buying DF armor or being recruited to other guild that has boon, most leave without notice even we have played together, guild members help them to reach lvl70 or given items to boost ilvl.

3) Players that just wants to be in guild, doesnt contribute, doesnt communicate, doesnt watch chat & no mic (First to go when we purge inactive)

Setting up guild meetups once/twice a week helps bonding players as well as being on Xbl party with Mic.

mordekai · October 2016

iccyasd said:
Just want to add, i started WindowsCentral with my friend @EastX around end of January 2016, we are now GH10 sitting at Gauntlet position under Ruthless Alliance, we never had any requirement to join other than being active, i have seen people come and go since GH1-8 (before Alliance).

Generally there is 3 types of people that you would encounter.

1) Loyal player that doesnt care if you have dragonflight/boons even if they were recruited to higher guild they stay with you, helping new low levels, giving out r7 / drow pants/shirt to boost new lvl70s & tips about upcoming events.

2) Un Loyal Player that never contributes, only focus on epic dungeons & always asking for dragonflight run on guild chat, they leave after buying DF armor or being recruited to other guild that has boon, most leave without notice even we have played together, guild members help them to reach lvl70 or given items to boost ilvl.

3) Players that just wants to be in guild, doesnt contribute, doesnt communicate, doesnt watch chat & no mic (First to go when we purge inactive)

Setting up guild meetups once/twice a week helps bonding players as well as being on Xbl party with Mic.

I'd like to add to that; Players who contribute a rank 4 empowered runestone, drop the odd L105 piece of equipment, and moan that "This Guild's HAMSTER... I want boons and DF..." yet when you suggest getting up off their lazy HAMSTER and dropping some Dragon Hoard Coins... (COINS for the love of God... it's not like we're asking for 100 Linu's Favour here) they assume a position of self righteous indignation and drop an extra rank 3 silvery by way of compromise.

speedokillz · October 2016

armadeonx said:
You can send out a guild mail asking members to put a comment next to their name & give them a couple of days to to do it - the comment is time stamped so you'll know who's active that way.

You should change your MOTD telling people to check their mail too as often a guild mail won't flag as a new message on peoples HUD.

This is some great advice, btw... at least for me when I was given it. Change the MOTD with the date stamp and let everyone know the progress toward the Target the guild is making. Every day you update the progress has a chance of bringing others into the excitement of reaching a goal.

I have just started Member Comment update recently, too and really provides some insight of who is paying attention to the progress in Strongholds. I have the "Member Comment color of the week." ROYGBIV is the rotation and when I get back around to Red again, if the member has never updated their member comment, they are probably not paying enough attention to contribute and are one of the 2) or 3) players mention by @iccyasd or the other mentioned by @mordekai#1901.

getsume · October 2016

mahburg said:

getsume#1425 said:

ecrana#2080 said:
Of course players leave lower level guild for guilds with better boons. No one wants to grind the stronghold advancement out. Having been part of a guild that went from 8-20 pretty quickly, I can say that it was a lot of work, a ton of dragon marathons, etc etc. That takes a lot of dedicated people so if a leader isn't even around it's not going to happen.

And another issue has been the number of people that left the game throughout the earlier parts of the year. Regardless of what some say, people have left and some guilds were going through mergers before Alliances even came out. You really need a strong nucleus of at least 50-75 members with the rest being new (hopefully) lone-term recruits. The grind sucks but the only answer is to have the manpower to handle it.
Yeah really wasn't expecting much to be done without me; I mean i was the major donator in the first place. I was pretty happy to see some of my members kept at it though.

I had hoped that with the new alliance system i could at least get into an alliance with a good market place but most people are more concerned with the miniscule discount for having higher level guilds in the alliance.
Contact me through the game (same handle) we are level 14 and set up an alliance specifically to help lower level guilds get access to stuff.

If I am on when you are just send a friend request and jump into party.
Cheers

I actually just got into an alliance but thanks for the offer

getsume · October 2016

armadeonx said:
You can send out a guild mail asking members to put a comment next to their name & give them a couple of days to to do it - the comment is time stamped so you'll know who's active that way.

You should change your MOTD telling people to check their mail too as often a guild mail won't flag as a new message on peoples HUD.

I didn't know that thanks I'll try it.

getsume · October 2016

mordekai#1901 said:

iccyasd said:
Just want to add, i started WindowsCentral with my friend @EastX around end of January 2016, we are now GH10 sitting at Gauntlet position under Ruthless Alliance, we never had any requirement to join other than being active, i have seen people come and go since GH1-8 (before Alliance).

Generally there is 3 types of people that you would encounter.

1) Loyal player that doesnt care if you have dragonflight/boons even if they were recruited to higher guild they stay with you, helping new low levels, giving out r7 / drow pants/shirt to boost new lvl70s & tips about upcoming events.

2) Un Loyal Player that never contributes, only focus on epic dungeons & always asking for dragonflight run on guild chat, they leave after buying DF armor or being recruited to other guild that has boon, most leave without notice even we have played together, guild members help them to reach lvl70 or given items to boost ilvl.

3) Players that just wants to be in guild, doesnt contribute, doesnt communicate, doesnt watch chat & no mic (First to go when we purge inactive)

Setting up guild meetups once/twice a week helps bonding players as well as being on Xbl party with Mic.
I'd like to add to that; Players who contribute a rank 4 empowered runestone, drop the odd L105 piece of equipment, and moan that "This Guild's HAMSTER... I want boons and DF..." yet when you suggest getting up off their lazy HAMSTER and dropping some Dragon Hoard Coins... (COINS for the love of God... it's not like we're asking for 100 Linu's Favour here) they assume a position of self righteous indignation and drop an extra rank 3 silvery by way of compromise.

Yeah. But about donating low rank gems i would like to point out that rank 3's and 4's are roughly fifty to sixty percent cheaper for an equal amount of points donated. It is really tedious to check the market all the time for more though.

mordekai · October 2016

getsume#1425 said:

mordekai#1901 said:

iccyasd said:
Just want to add, i started WindowsCentral with my friend @EastX around end of January 2016, we are now GH10 sitting at Gauntlet position under Ruthless Alliance, we never had any requirement to join other than being active, i have seen people come and go since GH1-8 (before Alliance).

Generally there is 3 types of people that you would encounter.

1) Loyal player that doesnt care if you have dragonflight/boons even if they were recruited to higher guild they stay with you, helping new low levels, giving out r7 / drow pants/shirt to boost new lvl70s & tips about upcoming events.

2) Un Loyal Player that never contributes, only focus on epic dungeons & always asking for dragonflight run on guild chat, they leave after buying DF armor or being recruited to other guild that has boon, most leave without notice even we have played together, guild members help them to reach lvl70 or given items to boost ilvl.

3) Players that just wants to be in guild, doesnt contribute, doesnt communicate, doesnt watch chat & no mic (First to go when we purge inactive)

Setting up guild meetups once/twice a week helps bonding players as well as being on Xbl party with Mic.
I'd like to add to that; Players who contribute a rank 4 empowered runestone, drop the odd L105 piece of equipment, and moan that "This Guild's HAMSTER... I want boons and DF..." yet when you suggest getting up off their lazy HAMSTER and dropping some Dragon Hoard Coins... (COINS for the love of God... it's not like we're asking for 100 Linu's Favour here) they assume a position of self righteous indignation and drop an extra rank 3 silvery by way of compromise.
Yeah. But about donating low rank gems i would like to point out that rank 3's and 4's are roughly fifty to sixty percent cheaper for an equal amount of points donated. It is really tedious to check the market all the time for more though.

The example was arbitrary, I was referring to any small item that is less convenient to keep than get rid of. And rather than just discarding, they drop it in the guild coffer, then complain while other guild members are actively seeking out high value stuff specifically to donate, rather than just dumping their useless cast offs.

armadeonx · October 2016

Such people - once identified - are dust.

getsume · October 2016

mordekai#1901 said:

getsume#1425 said:

mordekai#1901 said:

iccyasd said:
Just want to add, i started WindowsCentral with my friend @EastX around end of January 2016, we are now GH10 sitting at Gauntlet position under Ruthless Alliance, we never had any requirement to join other than being active, i have seen people come and go since GH1-8 (before Alliance).

Generally there is 3 types of people that you would encounter.

1) Loyal player that doesnt care if you have dragonflight/boons even if they were recruited to higher guild they stay with you, helping new low levels, giving out r7 / drow pants/shirt to boost new lvl70s & tips about upcoming events.

2) Un Loyal Player that never contributes, only focus on epic dungeons & always asking for dragonflight run on guild chat, they leave after buying DF armor or being recruited to other guild that has boon, most leave without notice even we have played together, guild members help them to reach lvl70 or given items to boost ilvl.

3) Players that just wants to be in guild, doesnt contribute, doesnt communicate, doesnt watch chat & no mic (First to go when we purge inactive)

Setting up guild meetups once/twice a week helps bonding players as well as being on Xbl party with Mic.
I'd like to add to that; Players who contribute a rank 4 empowered runestone, drop the odd L105 piece of equipment, and moan that "This Guild's HAMSTER... I want boons and DF..." yet when you suggest getting up off their lazy HAMSTER and dropping some Dragon Hoard Coins... (COINS for the love of God... it's not like we're asking for 100 Linu's Favour here) they assume a position of self righteous indignation and drop an extra rank 3 silvery by way of compromise.
Yeah. But about donating low rank gems i would like to point out that rank 3's and 4's are roughly fifty to sixty percent cheaper for an equal amount of points donated. It is really tedious to check the market all the time for more though.
The example was arbitrary, I was referring to any small item that is less convenient to keep than get rid of. And rather than just discarding, they drop it in the guild coffer, then complain while other guild members are actively seeking out high value stuff specifically to donate, rather than just dumping their useless cast offs.

I know what you meant i just felt that someone reading this might like to find some tips on how to do things cheaper.

From what i remember even when i did have a few more active members they were pretty much the kind that just tossed there junk in sadly.

draco16 · October 2016

The mechanics of the game require membership in a guild in order to have access to the top boons stats in the game. I know that many people have criticized the process since it takes dedicated players and a committed leadership to make it work. Our guild started at ground zero and at this point we are leveling it to GH 17. The biggest hurdles were leadership, lack of clear parameters, and the constant nerfing of classes that had driven away dedicated loyal players. In order to make progress possible guilds need constant requirements to complete structures, also hands on leadership that is focused on the whole instead of the one, and finally players that understand that to get to the higher levels require the sacrifes of all members.

For the leaders of starter guild, surround yourself with dedicated players and set a focus as to where you want to take your guild. Good luck to everyone in this tough process.

mordekai · October 2016

armadeonx said:
Such people - once identified - are dust.

The problem is though, that when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, even 5 or 10 points in the coffer can help. I would love to be in a position where we could just say, "If you don't like it, go hamster yourself." And when that day finally comes, (if I live that long...) I will definitely be the first to dust them.

But we've just amalgamated with a couple of Guilds in the same boat as us, so hopefully there will be more active contributors.

speedokillz · October 2016

Something to consider here... while 5-10 points in the coffer can help, it isn't always helpful enough to justify the roster spot (imo). I don't have a problem with someone milking the stronghold boons for a while, but when it come time to push in order to hit a target, it does in fact matter that someone is in that spot and not contributing.

It may even come down to members not understanding the power of the guild boons. For example: Stables. I added this up a while back so correct me if I miscounted but at rank 3, Stables has more defense and armor pen than all of the other Campaigns combined (except one defense boon that is only temporary buff for 10 sec). I hear a lot of ".. I want to get all my Campaign Boons 1st..." but the reality is there should be at least an effort to work on the Stronghold target while doing the Campaigns.

armadeonx · October 2016

Campaign boons take a max of 5 weeks and I understand the need as I often create new characters. Guild boons do add a lot more than the campaign ones, a rank 3 stable gives 2400 defence which is indeed a lot more than all of them put together.

Personally I'm quite forgiving for new players on this and it can be compensated by donating certificates gained by influence and dragonflight runs.

If a player is made to feel welcome and a part of the community via dungeon invites, advice as needed and general chat - as well as grouping up for influence etc then they generally want to stay. Once they've decided they are in a guild they want to stay in then it removes a lot of their objections to contributing as they feel a sense of shared ownership & community (so long as they are not a-holes) - the rank system and officer comments are good tracking methods.

A real motivating point though is the sense of 'norm'. If it's the norm for members to do their part then slackers will feel some guilt. If however it's the norm for people to not contribute then a member will object to being asked because they'd see it as unfair. This is another reason why group influence runs work - they get to see everyone else doing it too.

Explaining the benefits of the next boon upgrade often gets people going. It's often only a small target of a few days or weeks (depending on GH level etc) but reaps benefits of 800 to 1000 points to a boon so pushing on the smaller goals works "ten days of effort guys and we all get an extra 1000 power! (etc)"

As I said before though, once they reach GH8 (or join an alliance) they have access to dragonflight and lionsmane armor. This means they'll need to earn guild marks to buy the gear. They also start pushing for more DF runs for fangs - and by happy coincidence, all the certificates that drop with them.

One note I'd add: Leaders should always deal with aggressive, ignorant or abusive members immediately. You'll lose many good members by not immediately confronting such people for whatever reason and I've personally seen two guilds sunk for this exact reason. You'll get respect and loyalty by defending your good guildies from troublemakers but they'll quit if they are not supported.

getsume · October 2016

armadeonx said:
Such people - once identified - are dust.

I kinda agree with mordekai about this, i mean even if they aren't doing much at least it's something. They give a lot more slots for people then you should normally need. If you had 100 ppl and they all had 5 toons and they all donated to the guild with those characters you would be at a very high guild level very quickly. You really only need 20-25 dedicated members with five characters each to get your guild up.

getsume · October 2016

draco16#8040 said:
The mechanics of the game require membership in a guild in order to have access to the top boons stats in the game. I know that many people have criticized the process since it takes dedicated players and a committed leadership to make it work. Our guild started at ground zero and at this point we are leveling it to GH 17. The biggest hurdles were leadership, lack of clear parameters, and the constant nerfing of classes that had driven away dedicated loyal players. In order to make progress possible guilds need constant requirements to complete structures, also hands on leadership that is focused on the whole instead of the one, and finally players that understand that to get to the higher levels require the sacrifes of all members.

For the leaders of starter guild, surround yourself with dedicated players and set a focus as to where you want to take your guild. Good luck to everyone in this tough process.

I'm not criticizing it because people have to be dedicated to get rewarded.

I'm criticizing it because it forces guilds who want to stay small to grow or be weak and because guilds should be completely optional; solo players pretty much have to join a guild eventually. How many other mmo's do you know of where the reason to join a guild is for stats instead of for a community of players to do quests with?

mordekai · October 2016

I honestly had no idea that SH boons were so loaded.
2400 def???
Blimey!
We are so far from hitting them, I hadn't even checked the stats.
But that just suggests to me that they could offer lower ones at earlier points in a guilds development.
OK... beef jerky is cool and all and everyone likes pie... but I think more people would hang about if there was a 400 point boon here and there.

armadeonx · October 2016

2400 is just at rank 3 (GH6) at max it's 8k. All of my characters benefit from 8k power plus 8k defence or 8k lifesteal.

If more people understood the benefits, they'd object less to helping their guild improve.

Why i don't like the guild system

Comments